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103's pitching up their stuff

Alright, so we have established that the songs are indeed pitched up...now the question WHY?

What is one to gain? No wonder CHR's get accused of soundking KIDDY when they pull stunts like this? When an artist sounds like they took a hit off a helium balloon before singing...I mean its acceptable on a slower track...but get into a hard driving tune like Hollaback Girl...or 1985 and it sounds rediculous.

I'd venture a guess that this is being done so that the station can sell more spots in an hour and still fit in the same number of songs.

I see no other logical reason for it. Why else would you play the song faster? Makes NO SENSE to me...ZERO!

I know Glen frequents the forum...I'd be curious to hear his take on this practice? Why is it done and do you REALLY think it sounds good???
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> OK!!!!! This message is for missaretha "pitching" a song up
> 2% will very much change the tempo of a song. 2% pitch would
> actually speed the speed song up almost 4 beats...that would
> be a noticable change. Argue with me if you want, but I knwo
> what I am talking about as I do it for 6 hours every
> Thursday night. That's all I wanted to say.
>
> Steve nice job of picking on it...I have heard it too and
> thought I was hearing things.

Uh..yeah AJ, you're right, it would. Do I type in friggin Greek? Keep readin'...
 
> Alright, so we have established that the songs are indeed
> pitched up...now the question WHY?
>
> What is one to gain? No wonder CHR's get accused of
> soundking KIDDY when they pull stunts like this? When an
> artist sounds like they took a hit off a helium balloon
> before singing...I mean its acceptable on a slower
> track...but get into a hard driving tune like Hollaback
> Girl...or 1985 and it sounds rediculous.
>
> I'd venture a guess that this is being done so that the
> station can sell more spots in an hour and still fit in the
> same number of songs.
>
> I see no other logical reason for it. Why else would you
> play the song faster? Makes NO SENSE to me...ZERO!
>
> I know Glen frequents the forum...I'd be curious to hear his
> take on this practice? Why is it done and do you REALLY
> think it sounds good???
>
Why not just email him directly and ask him?
 
Steve, I've heard two reasons for doing this:

1) It lets you squeeze in about another minute of spots per hour. (Remember a couple of years ago when at least one talk station started using a "cash box" to eliminate the pauses in Rush Limbaugh's delivery, thus compressing the length of the show and letting the local station squeeze in extra commercial time?)

2) If your competitors are playing the same song, the theory is that if you play the song faster, it will sound bad when heard on the other station. I think this is the stated reason 103 started doing it, as I recall. At the time there was more overlap between the 3WZ and Beaver playlists, so it was a counterstrike at 3WZ. I don't know if this theory is really proven or not. Probably not. Sounds like something some consultant thought up while sitting in his basement snorting coke, and everyone said, "Yeah! That sounds like a good idea!"

Actually, like I said, with new songs I'll bet the average listener wouldn't notice whether it was speeded up or not. You noticed...but you're not the average listener.

I don't really have a big problem with it, although I'm skeptical about whether it's really necessary. What I always thought sounded really bad, though, was when older songs were sped up...like when Beaver would play "Every Breath You Take" or something from the '80s that you were used to hearing at a certain tempo/speed/pitch for 15-20 years. For those songs, I think the speeding up stood out like a sore thumb...it just sounded weird. When I asked, Glen or someone told me that the way the system was set-up, you couldn't pick and choose which songs to pitch up. You had to do them all, or none of them.



> > Alright, so we have established that the songs are indeed
> > pitched up...now the question WHY?
> >
> > What is one to gain? No wonder CHR's get accused of
> > soundking KIDDY when they pull stunts like this? When an
> > artist sounds like they took a hit off a helium balloon
> > before singing...I mean its acceptable on a slower
> > track...but get into a hard driving tune like Hollaback
> > Girl...or 1985 and it sounds rediculous.
> >
> > I'd venture a guess that this is being done so that the
> > station can sell more spots in an hour and still fit in
> the
> > same number of songs.
> >
> > I see no other logical reason for it. Why else would you
> > play the song faster? Makes NO SENSE to me...ZERO!
> >
> > I know Glen frequents the forum...I'd be curious to hear
> his
> > take on this practice? Why is it done and do you REALLY
> > think it sounds good???
> >
> Why not just email him directly and ask him?
>
 
> Steve, I've heard two reasons for doing this:
>
> 1) It lets you squeeze in about another minute of spots per
> hour. (Remember a couple of years ago when at least one
> talk station started using a "cash box" to eliminate the
> pauses in Rush Limbaugh's delivery, thus compressing the
> length of the show and letting the local station squeeze in
> extra commercial time?)

Stations should do this to the Jim Rome show. They'd squeeze in an extra ten minutes of spots every hour.
 
> Why not just email him directly and ask him?
>

well...maybe we'd ALL like to hear his answer now that its been brought up here on this forum?

Maybe I'd like to hear input from people other than Glen as well.

Glen is a good jock...but his answer is not the be all and end all to me. In case you have missed it before, we have been known to disagree on things from time to time. I was hoping for some spirited discussion on the matter from all.

If he sees this and wants to answer for us all to see, he can. If he'd rather tell me directly, he knows how to reach me...he has emailed me before, as I have emailed him as well.
 
HA! This is true... :)

> > Steve, I've heard two reasons for doing this:
> >
> > 1) It lets you squeeze in about another minute of spots
> per
> > hour. (Remember a couple of years ago when at least one
> > talk station started using a "cash box" to eliminate the
> > pauses in Rush Limbaugh's delivery, thus compressing the
> > length of the show and letting the local station squeeze
> in
> > extra commercial time?)
>
> Stations should do this to the Jim Rome show. They'd squeeze
> in an extra ten minutes of spots every hour.
>
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> I read all your posts and you seem to think that pitch
> doesn't change tempo! Just pointing out the obvious.

Are we talking music or radio now? Changing pitch in music doesn't change tempo. If you're talking about "pitching" as has been defined by all of the radio genius on here, then it would seem that everyone thinks that changing tempo changes pitch which I've said before is not necessarily true.

If you speed up a song using Amadeus, sonicWorx (an older program) or something similar, all of the software should have an option to speed it up without changing the pitch. If you don't have that option on the software you're using, then you paid for junk, the owner you work for has you working on junk or you haven't found the check box that allows it.
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

Miss A,

Pitching is used to speed up a song or group of songs using modern radio editing software. That is correct. You are, however, correct that speeding up a song or group of songs using modern editing software does not raise the key or pitch of a song as used in standard musical terminology. So while it is correct that HOT 103 is pitching up their songs, it is correct that the key of the songs are not changed. Mr. Hilton needs a Q-Tip to clean out his ears.

> > Its a 2% pitch adjustment NOT .02% and heck you don't get
> > around much do ya...even like Crutcfield, heck I bet Paul
> > and Tony's in town has high end CD players with Pitch
> > Control. Look in the booth at Players...also cd players
> > with pitch control. There used to be one in the prod room
>
> > made by Sony...but we never used the pitch adjustment. It
>
> > was just a feature we played with for kicks sometime.
> >
> > Oh and don't care what you say...speed up the track...you
> > speed up the pitch and not just the tempo! The voice
> sounds
> > noticably HIGHER...my Bucky comment was an
> > exaggeration...but play Hollaback on 103 and spin it on
> 101
> > at the same time and the change will jump right out at ya!
>
>
> Steve,
>
> I'm not argueing that you noticed a difference in the
> tempo/speed of the song. I know for a fact that it's sped
> up. Someone has now defined the term "pitching" as it's
> used in radio circles. It makes sense.
>
> But I will not concede that you heard a higher voice (or key
> transposition) when you heard Hollaback Girl. And if you
> speed up the tempo, you do not automatically raise the pitch
> if you specifically choose to edit that way. If you speed
> up pitch, yes, pitch will change but only if you don't set
> it to leave the pitch (or key) the same.
>
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

>
Yes the software you refer to is older. It in no way is intended or used in many/any radio stations. Not due to price by the way, its just way too old and is not made for radio prod or on air use. Again in the case discused the change is done to a waveform, so ALL the content is changed, let rootbeerfloat know. It sounds like you got some help on this one, it is dated help. Its also incorrect. Steve is correct.


> I read all your posts and you seem to think that pitch
> > doesn't change tempo! Just pointing out the obvious.
>
> Are we talking music or radio now? Changing pitch in music
> doesn't change tempo. If you're talking about "pitching" as
> has been defined by all of the radio genius on here, then it
> would seem that everyone thinks that changing tempo changes
> pitch which I've said before is not necessarily true.
>
> If you speed up a song using Amadeus, sonicWorx (an older
> program) or something similar, all of the software should
> have an option to speed it up without changing the pitch.
> If you don't have that option on the software you're using,
> then you paid for junk, the owner you work for has you
> working on junk or you haven't found the check box that
> allows it.
>
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

>

I have perfect hearing and I heard it. You sound juvenile with the Q tip comment. You sir/madam are wrong. Pitching changes the entire file. It speeds up the playback. There is no broadcast software in the world that will disassemble a MP3 or WAV take out the vocals then shorten the rest of the file while re inserting the vocals unchanged into a shortened cut. It wouldn’t fit anyway. Its mathematics too.


I am sure there might be some software that is for recording artists that you can do this. I did it years ago on reel to reel. It is not feasible to do it in radio. If Forever speeds up tracks it is to make money. Why would they spend money to use ancient third rate nonbroadcast software to butch up music. Its way too easy to just plug in a CASH box and go. Now, tell me where to insert the Q tip.



Miss A,
>
> Pitching is used to speed up a song or group of songs using
> modern radio editing software. That is correct. You are,
> however, correct that speeding up a song or group of songs
> using modern editing software does not raise the key or
> pitch of a song as used in standard musical terminology. So
> while it is correct that HOT 103 is pitching up their songs,
> it is correct that the key of the songs are not changed.
> Mr. Hilton needs a Q-Tip to clean out his ears.
>
> > > Its a 2% pitch adjustment NOT .02% and heck you don't
> get
> > > around much do ya...even like Crutcfield, heck I bet
> Paul
> > > and Tony's in town has high end CD players with Pitch
> > > Control. Look in the booth at Players...also cd players
>
> > > with pitch control. There used to be one in the prod
> room
> >
> > > made by Sony...but we never used the pitch adjustment.
> It
> >
> > > was just a feature we played with for kicks sometime.
> > >
> > > Oh and don't care what you say...speed up the
> track...you
> > > speed up the pitch and not just the tempo! The voice
> > sounds
> > > noticably HIGHER...my Bucky comment was an
> > > exaggeration...but play Hollaback on 103 and spin it on
> > 101
> > > at the same time and the change will jump right out at
> ya!
> >
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I'm not argueing that you noticed a difference in the
> > tempo/speed of the song. I know for a fact that it's sped
>
> > up. Someone has now defined the term "pitching" as it's
> > used in radio circles. It makes sense.
> >
> > But I will not concede that you heard a higher voice (or
> key
> > transposition) when you heard Hollaback Girl. And if you
> > speed up the tempo, you do not automatically raise the
> pitch
> > if you specifically choose to edit that way. If you speed
>
> > up pitch, yes, pitch will change but only if you don't set
>
> > it to leave the pitch (or key) the same.
> >
>
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

Ah roarradio....its ok....US OLD GUYS like me well...the hearing must not be what it used to be...I guess maybe that's why so many of the local stations sound so bad to me :)

You know...we old guys used to play RECORDS...and well we know what they sound like sped up....I assure you that this old boy's hearing knows what he heard...tell you what...spin the song back to back once pitched up and once not and you be the judge if the voice is not more BUCKY'ESQUE! (I am tradmarking that phrase by the way)...

Sorry...I could not resist...now let the picking apart fest begin!

Hitman


> >
>
> I have perfect hearing and I heard it. You sound
> juvenile with the Q tip comment. You sir/madam are wrong.
> Pitching changes the entire file. It speeds up the playback.
> There is no broadcast software in the world that will
> disassemble a MP3 or WAV take out the vocals then shorten
> the rest of the file while re inserting the vocals unchanged
> into a shortened cut. It wouldn’t fit anyway. Its
> mathematics too.
>
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

Steve it's not your hearing...Miss A is just doesn't understand. She is out numbered something like 90 to 1 on this subject and she still insists that pitching does not change tempo.

Shout out to Miss A...I will play Hollaback girl pitched up 2% while trying to keep the tempo of the song the same, then I will play it the right way and you tell me if they still sound the same...

Call me when you have some free time, that is if you are not to scared to be proven wrong...open invitation for you to rootbeerfloat
 
Brighter, more Exciting!

The theory is that if your station is engaged in head-to-head format battle, the 2% pitch hike makes your station sound brighter & more exciting than your competitor. Or to take it in reverse, it makes your competitor sound dull by comparison. Supposedly it's subliminal, because no one can ever recall a listener actually volunteering that they notice any difference.

So that goes with reason #2 below. Reason #1 probably wouldn't apply at the moment to Hot 103--no indication that they're being swamped with commercials, so there wouldn't seem to be any reason to squeeze in a few more that they can't sell anyway.

But if this is the tactic they used to whip 3WZ last year in Hot AC, one would have to question its effectiveness.


> Steve, I've heard two reasons for doing this:
>
> 1) It lets you squeeze in about another minute of spots per
> hour. (Remember a couple of years ago when at least one
> talk station started using a "cash box" to eliminate the
> pauses in Rush Limbaugh's delivery, thus compressing the
> length of the show and letting the local station squeeze in
> extra commercial time?)
>
> 2) If your competitors are playing the same song, the theory
> is that if you play the song faster, it will sound bad when
> heard on the other station. I think this is the stated
> reason 103 started doing it, as I recall. At the time there
> was more overlap between the 3WZ and Beaver playlists, so it
> was a counterstrike at 3WZ. I don't know if this theory is
> really proven or not. Probably not. Sounds like something
> some consultant thought up while sitting in his basement
> snorting coke, and everyone said, "Yeah! That sounds like a
> good idea!"
>
> Actually, like I said, with new songs I'll bet the average
> listener wouldn't notice whether it was speeded up or not.
> You noticed...but you're not the average listener.
>
> I don't really have a big problem with it, although I'm
> skeptical about whether it's really necessary. What I
> always thought sounded really bad, though, was when older
> songs were sped up...like when Beaver would play "Every
> Breath You Take" or something from the '80s that you were
> used to hearing at a certain tempo/speed/pitch for 15-20
> years. For those songs, I think the speeding up stood out
> like a sore thumb...it just sounded weird. When I asked,
> Glen or someone told me that the way the system was set-up,
> you couldn't pick and choose which songs to pitch up. You
> had to do them all, or none of them.
>
>
>
> > > Alright, so we have established that the songs are
> indeed
> > > pitched up...now the question WHY?
> > >
> > > What is one to gain? No wonder CHR's get accused of
> > > soundking KIDDY when they pull stunts like this? When
> an
> > > artist sounds like they took a hit off a helium balloon
> > > before singing...I mean its acceptable on a slower
> > > track...but get into a hard driving tune like Hollaback
> > > Girl...or 1985 and it sounds rediculous.
> > >
> > > I'd venture a guess that this is being done so that the
> > > station can sell more spots in an hour and still fit in
> > the
> > > same number of songs.
> > >
> > > I see no other logical reason for it. Why else would
> you
> > > play the song faster? Makes NO SENSE to me...ZERO!
> > >
> > > I know Glen frequents the forum...I'd be curious to hear
>
> > his
> > > take on this practice? Why is it done and do you REALLY
>
> > > think it sounds good???
> > >
> > Why not just email him directly and ask him?
> >
>
 
> The absurdity to this whole discussion is that this practice has been going on for decades. And, it is done not only to increase the spotload and cash flow, but to make the station sound more upbeat and exciting, and promote the fact that they play more songs per hours than the competition. When 13Q debuted in Pittsburgh in 1973, management ordered the engineer to speed up the turntables. Why? To promote the fact that they played more music than the competition, and to create an energetic, upbeat sound. This practice, and the 13Q $13K cash call, buried KQV.
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> OK!!!!! This message is for missaretha "pitching" a song up
> 2% will very much change the tempo of a song. 2% pitch would
> actually speed the speed song up almost 4 beats...that would
> be a noticable change. Argue with me if you want, but I knwo
> what I am talking about as I do it for 6 hours every
> Thursday night. That's all I wanted to say.
>
> Steve nice job of picking on it...I have heard it too and
> thought I was hearing things.
>

this is a silly subject for anyone that knows music.....but I have to chime in on this...cause AJ is confussed obviously....um you can raise or lower a pinch in a song or a voice...and keep the same tempo....and you can raise or lower the tempo while keeping the same pitch. It's not tough...and not hard to comprehend. i can't spell..i hope that's right.....if you can't do it with the software you have...i think it was said in this string, you have junk' get something better...and if you don't believe me...get a holg of a Technics DZ 1200 and have fun...cause you can do it all day on that piece of equipment. Have a nice day!! :)

Greg
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> OK!!!!! This message is for missaretha "pitching" a song up
> 2% will very much change the tempo of a song. 2% pitch would
> actually speed the speed song up almost 4 beats...that would
> be a noticable change. Argue with me if you want, but I knwo
> what I am talking about as I do it for 6 hours every
> Thursday night. That's all I wanted to say.
>
> Steve nice job of picking on it...I have heard it too and
> thought I was hearing things.
>

oh...and it's a very common practice for a CHR station to tempo up a song...i've even heard as much as 3 - 3 1/2%...makes the whole staion seem more upbeat even with slow songs.
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

> > OK!!!!! This message is for missaretha "pitching" a song
> up
> > 2% will very much change the tempo of a song. 2% pitch
> would
> > actually speed the speed song up almost 4 beats...that
> would
> > be a noticable change. Argue with me if you want, but I
> knwo
> > what I am talking about as I do it for 6 hours every
> > Thursday night. That's all I wanted to say.
> >
> > Steve nice job of picking on it...I have heard it too and
> > thought I was hearing things.
> >
>
> oh...and it's a very common practice for a CHR station to
> tempo up a song...i've even heard as much as 3 - 3
> 1/2%...makes the whole staion seem more upbeat even with
> slow songs.
>
Perhaps you could adjust Jill Gleeson's voice down a few percentage points.
 
Re: It's not pitch, it's speed

Greg,

Sorry bud, maybe at a strip bar but not in radio. You are speeding up the playback that means the voice too. The entire selection. The end. AJ is correct. Hilton is right. What were you doing with the turntable playing the singing only on one at normal speed while taking it up three percent while playing the instrumental on another turntable pitched up? DDDDDDude whats in the pipe?


> OK!!!!! This message is for missaretha "pitching" a song
> up
> > 2% will very much change the tempo of a song. 2% pitch
> would
> > actually speed the speed song up almost 4 beats...that
> would
> > be a noticable change. Argue with me if you want, but I
> knwo
> > what I am talking about as I do it for 6 hours every
> > Thursday night. That's all I wanted to say.
> >
> > Steve nice job of picking on it...I have heard it too and
> > thought I was hearing things.
> >
>
> this is a silly subject for anyone that knows music.....but
> I have to chime in on this...cause AJ is confussed
> obviously....um you can raise or lower a pinch in a song or
> a voice...and keep the same tempo....and you can raise or
> lower the tempo while keeping the same pitch. It's not
> tough...and not hard to comprehend. i can't spell..i hope
> that's right.....if you can't do it with the software you
> have...i think it was said in this string, you have junk'
> get something better...and if you don't believe me...get a
> holg of a Technics DZ 1200 and have fun...cause you can do
> it all day on that piece of equipment. Have a nice day!! :)
>
>
> Greg
>
 
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