105.7 & Other Jersey Shore Signals

[amfmsw]

Thermal Inversions are a whole other animal. Yes, with that, hundreds of miles are clearly possible. But I think the original post was referring to standard, everyday reception conditions.

 

[jlehmann]

Second; The Radio Locator coverage maps you reference are not at all accurate. These are the same maps taken from the FCC's web site database. These maps are derived without any propagation modeling. The reason for no propagation modeling in the maps is that the FCC is not especially sophisticated about that because they don't have to be. Good propagation models use detailed data about terrain elevations and include details about what is on the surface (trees, buildings, water etc.) into the math. The software is expensive and proprietary but well worth it when you need to know. I used it when moving a class C FM station in Honolulu.

The radio-locator maps may not always be 100% accurate, but they do take terrain into account on FM, and ground conductivity on AM.

Just look at 94.5 WDVT's map... their HAAT is negative, and it's clearly shown with a poor coverage map, with the signal just sneaking out in a couple directions where there's no hills surrounding it:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WDVT&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

For AM, just look at the good ground conductivity in the midwest with 550 KTRS:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KTRS&service=AM&status=L&hours=D

and poor in the northeast with 630 WPRO. http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WPRO&service=AM&status=L&hours=D

Both of those stations are 5kW non directional during the day, and have low positions on the dial.

 

[Eng.Mike]

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WDVT&service=FM&status=L&hours=U[/url]

The maps are indeed accurate for AM but terribly inadequate for FM. You will never get those nice round contours seen on the FCC maps when mountains are near. Even the rounding for the WDVT map is a big oversimplification. The WDVT map is much better than KHCM as accuracy goes. I'll bet nobody complains when their map shows signal in areas that it doesn't reach but they will complain big time if the contour misses some of their market. That site for WDVT is right in the middle of a narrow valley with a tiny gap on the west. Only a few miles away is a real good mountain top site that Vermont Public Radio uses. What a shame it couldn't be up there. I used to work as an engineer in Vermont and I can say that the terrain is just as nasty as in Hawaii. Look at the map for WNCS in Montpelier. I was the chief engineer at WNCS and the signal was so bad in it's own city of license that we had a translator on 100.3 in Montpelier just to fill in. The coverage map shows none of the terrain shadowing in the valleys.

One very interesting thing with propagation here in New York/New Jersey is the Hudson River corridor. The river with it's steep sides seems to focus the signals of Westchester county FM stations right into a small area around Sayreville and Matawan N.J.. It's narrow area on the map but the signals of a few Westchester N.Y. stations seem to go well beyond their FCC interference protection contours just in that small stretch around the Parkway

 

[eyg2181]

Look at the map of WMMR.

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WMMR&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

according to the map, the signal doesnt reach within about 20 miles of pottsville PA... in fact it says it doesnt reach schuylkill county period. but WMMR can be received around the clock in most of Pottsville (in between all the mountains) and evberywhere south of pottsville.


also WCHR's map.

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WCHR&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

although it is more accurate that WMMR's, it is still stronger. there is NO WAY 105.7 is a fringe station in Levittown, with the signal being as good as it is. i105.7 should be a local with a moderate signal (or at the worst, a distant station)

also, look at G-Rocks (106.5)

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WBBO&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

according to this, it doesnt even reach PA, but it comes in almost as good as 105.7 does. so does sojo 1049 for that matter... they come in good too.

now, in Levittown, Q104 and K-Rock and RXP are true frings stations (almost unlistenable in the car, and hard to pick up inside, unless your in certain spots)

i am aware that these are all doen by formulas and whatnot, but they can be misleading.

i was also wondering if signals travel farther up north thn they do south. like i said MMR reaches pottsville, but t102 doesnt come in within 30 miles of philly (i know this because ive tried it)

and one more thing: look at PST's map:

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WPST&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

shouldn't the map have PST fringe past norristown (because of WDAC, which shouldnt be on the same frequency with in about 120-130 miles of a class b transmitter? pst should easily have 60 miles in all directions. but they are being cheated out of a big listening area (parts of Philly area, such as upper roxborough, norristown, plymouth meeting, etc. where according to radio locator it is a local station, [and PST SHOULD be a local station] )

sorry bout the long and boring post.

 

[orange434]

now, in Levittown, Q104 and K-Rock and RXP are true frings stations (almost unlistenable in the car, and hard to pick up inside, unless your in certain spots)

that's because of the IBOC adjacent-channel stations WRFF, WXTU, and WIOQ are running respectively next to those stations. in the pre-IBOC days as long as you had a selective radio, there was no problem getting those nyc signals in the levittown area.

i was also wondering if signals travel farther up north thn they do south. like i said MMR reaches pottsville, but t102 doesnt come in within 30 miles of philly (i know this because ive tried it)

and once again, that is because of WIOQ's IBOC which knocks out anything on 101.9 within a 25-30 mile radius. there is absolutely nothing near 93.3 in the pottsville area, which is the reason you are able to receive it unimpeded. there's no way to make a radio-locator style map to account for adjacent or co-channel interference. and as i mentioned before, once you get away from IQO's IBOC toward the south jersey shore areas, t102's signal will pop up again.

and one more thing: look at PST's map:

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WPST&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

shouldn't the map have PST fringe past norristown (because of WDAC, which shouldnt be on the same frequency with in about 120-130 miles of a class b transmitter? pst should easily have 60 miles in all directions. but they are being cheated out of a big listening area (parts of Philly area, such as upper roxborough, norristown, plymouth meeting, etc. where according to radio locator it is a local station, [and PST SHOULD be a local station] )

sorry bout the long and boring post.

again it's virtually impossible to take in account stations that interfere with the station in question on a map. if wdac wasn't there, wpst would cover those areas fine. but wdac has a monster signal and interferes with pst as far east as just west of the city ave. exit on the schuylkill.

 

[yossefgershon]

I live in midwood brooklyn 11230 and I get THE POINT,THE BREEZE,G-ROCK AND sometimes ,THE RAT,on my sony clock radio-----I guess it is because the signals come over WASHINGTON CEMETERY.I only wish that PRESS would switch 107.1 to COUNTRY!!!!! In the car I get whtg am the closer I get to BRIGHTON BEACH/SHORE PARKWAY.The jersey shore gets WHLI from long island better than brooklyn gets it.Try and see if you can receive wnyh 740---standards and oldies-----I listen to it in the car and on my sony clock radio.

 

[Radio411]

Try and see if you can receive wnyh 740---standards and oldies-----I listen to it in the car and on my sony clock radio.

That station comes in CLEAR AS A BELL all the way down to AC and beyond and about 10 miles inland... gotta LOVE that salt water propagation!!! Too bad they do NOTHING with the frequency but auto-pilot... Hell of a signal to be WASTED!!!

:

 

[KSB]

shouldn't the map have PST fringe past norristown (because of WDAC, which shouldnt be on the same frequency with in about 120-130 miles of a class b transmitter? pst should easily have 60 miles in all directions. but they are being cheated out of a big listening area (parts of Philly area, such as upper roxborough, norristown, plymouth meeting, etc. where according to radio locator it is a local station, [and PST SHOULD be a local station] )

If I'm not mistaken, WDAC was actually first to sign on, sometime in the late 50's. I think 94.5 in Trenton only signed on (as WCHR) in the mid 60's, but is allowed to be short-spaced as a grandfathered station. Also, if you look at WPST's polar plot you'll notice that they have a very slight null to the west - I would imagine to give some amount of protection to WDAC. Strangely enough, there are areas as far west as western Berks County where WPST interferes with WDAC.

 

[eyg2181]

shouldn't the map have PST fringe past norristown (because of WDAC, which shouldnt be on the same frequency with in about 120-130 miles of a class b transmitter? pst should easily have 60 miles in all directions. but they are being cheated out of a big listening area (parts of Philly area, such as upper roxborough, norristown, plymouth meeting, etc. where according to radio locator it is a local station, [and PST SHOULD be a local station] )

If I'm not mistaken, WDAC was actually first to sign on, sometime in the late 50's. I think 94.5 in Trenton only signed on (as WCHR) in the mid 60's, but is allowed to be short-spaced as a grandfathered station. Also, if you look at WPST's polar plot you'll notice that they have a very slight null to the west - I would imagine to give some amount of protection to WDAC. Strangely enough, there are areas as far west as western Berks County where WPST interferes with WDAC.

i hgave a Grundig Mini 300 radio, and i take it up the mountain with me when i go to the top, and there are cretain spots where if i point the antenna a certain was, PST can be heardm but barely.... but DAC is mostly the power house there (pottsvillr pa area)