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Ferreri
Guest
Jeff, as we both know and have talked about, someone could make a decent living doing Adult Standards correctly. Nice niche and one that no one else wants.
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1250 WHNZ is hurting
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WGUL pre Salem did a great job with Standards. Live personalities, cash giveaways. Canada Calling for the snowbirds (Pryor Smith) Eh? I hope 1470 can succeed with it but in order to work it has to have some local content like jocks. I understand being on the bird at nite, but daytime??? CC Dove stations here sound good but whoever is programming the music. It just doesnt seem to fit together right
oldiesfan6479 said:
Driving on the "new" Skyway (as in the "New" Magic 94-9) isn't bad. Driving it while listening to WHNZ is frightening! ;D I love the idea of a Tampa Bay AM doing standards... not that I didn't mention that idea 700 posts ago. The audience is here and the niche is open. Keep it live and local from 6a - 10p and turn on the bird overnights.
And no... the crappy signal stations, ala WTAN or the Sarasota twins DON'T count.
D
Don62
Guest
The station is such a joke. Any time I turn it on, it's some infomercial.
Very little "broadcasting" here.
I'm sure a high school student could program it better than the bunch of novices and bean-counters that currently occupy Gandy Blvd.
Very little "broadcasting" here.
I'm sure a high school student could program it better than the bunch of novices and bean-counters that currently occupy Gandy Blvd.
I spent 10 years, 10 months, 26 days, and 17 hours working at WHNZ. But who's counting?! I was axed ostensibly to save money.
The PD who replaced me (Jon Volmer of WDAE) was fired less than a year later. Then some FM MD was put in charge, and probably isn't sure where the studio is.
I presided over many changes, from an award-winning all-news station which was scooping WFLA on a regular basis (with 1/3 the staff) to a nearly all-colon-blow and financial crook format which made money and kept jobs (well, not ALL jobs, obviously).
I could write volumes about what WHNZ did, and why. My perspective only goes back to the Paxson days though. But what's the point? This station's huge potential, and gastrointestinal foibles, are part of the object lesson about the hazards of deregulation. This story IS part of the argument against corporate mass ownership.
I could say that I stuck with the station out of misguided hope and pride and professionalism (and perhaps some fear), and was eventually rewarded with a career-ending injury inflicted by someone whose lengthy career with the current owners also recently ended. But I won't. End of story.
The PD who replaced me (Jon Volmer of WDAE) was fired less than a year later. Then some FM MD was put in charge, and probably isn't sure where the studio is.
I presided over many changes, from an award-winning all-news station which was scooping WFLA on a regular basis (with 1/3 the staff) to a nearly all-colon-blow and financial crook format which made money and kept jobs (well, not ALL jobs, obviously).
I could write volumes about what WHNZ did, and why. My perspective only goes back to the Paxson days though. But what's the point? This station's huge potential, and gastrointestinal foibles, are part of the object lesson about the hazards of deregulation. This story IS part of the argument against corporate mass ownership.
I could say that I stuck with the station out of misguided hope and pride and professionalism (and perhaps some fear), and was eventually rewarded with a career-ending injury inflicted by someone whose lengthy career with the current owners also recently ended. But I won't. End of story.
What has happened with WHNZ goes back to the late 90's, when the station was on 570. Back then, when the station was owned by Paxson, there was a trend to fill more time with paid programming. I was told that revenue "propped up" the morning, midday and afternoon news blocks, which were probably the only times the station was worth listening to. But at least, there was a fair bit of local info, we had reporters on the street and you could argue we were serving the public interest. And, when it "hit the fan" (like during the St. Pete riots), we went live all night to cover the breaking news (including my attending a 6am press conference with then-mayor David Fisher).
But a news operation costs a fair bit of $$$ and it was obvious even under Paxson ownership, the station was going in the "infomercial" direction. So I can understand why CC "furthered the process." I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand. Because, even if the station's revenue has dropped, it's probably been a "cash cow" up 'till now.
If the station is making any money, I'd be surprised if it's sold. Who is left there? Gordon Byrd? If so, he's a good choice, that man knows the station "inside-out." But he'd be about the only paid staffer, probably. So, operating costs at WHNZ are likely minimal.
Regarding the other thread: I do agree...a properly presented adult standards format would work on 1250, though I don't know if the 25 kW signal covers all the areas it should...but yes, a WGUL-style format would make money (eventually) for anyone willing to fork out a few $$$ now.
But a news operation costs a fair bit of $$$ and it was obvious even under Paxson ownership, the station was going in the "infomercial" direction. So I can understand why CC "furthered the process." I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand. Because, even if the station's revenue has dropped, it's probably been a "cash cow" up 'till now.
If the station is making any money, I'd be surprised if it's sold. Who is left there? Gordon Byrd? If so, he's a good choice, that man knows the station "inside-out." But he'd be about the only paid staffer, probably. So, operating costs at WHNZ are likely minimal.
Regarding the other thread: I do agree...a properly presented adult standards format would work on 1250, though I don't know if the 25 kW signal covers all the areas it should...but yes, a WGUL-style format would make money (eventually) for anyone willing to fork out a few $$$ now.
D
Don62
Guest
I know radio people say this all the time, but in TV, those news programs such as Dateline, 20/20, etc., like 'reality' shows, are inexpensive to make, compared to full-scripted drama series.David Sharp said:
Radio is only people, microphones and other news equipment. It seems like a good news dept. could be funded to produce live and local newscasts, such as top and bottom of the hour and for an hour or so in a.m. drive and noon, then go to the El Rushbos.
I think WFLA's current news staff - if they weren't forced to do newscasts for Orlando stations - could present enough material to fill a noon hour.
Hi Don, I don't know the actual cost behind WHNZ's news operation, but we had several news producers, reporters and anchors. These days, the station would have been considered "top heavy with talent." I take your point on the cost of news programs into consideration, only to reiterate the Paxson management at the time said the infomercials "propped up" the station's news-gathering abilities.
Don62 said:
Those shows like 20/20 or even the New Jay Leno at 10:00 PM deal for next year are cheap compared to hour long dramas and sitcoms which have huge shooting and production budgets in addition to paying name talent.
News Talk/ Sports Talk to be performed well on the local level requires at least 2 to 3 (should be more, I'm looking at minimums here) times the manpower of other stations. And in radio programming budgets, staff is by far the single biggest line item. 570 did a great job with limited resources, but managers woke up one day and said why am I paying four people to deliver a credible news hour in the morning, when someone else will pay me for the hour and all I have to do is pay one person a few dollars an hour to watch the board?
Mr. News is right. The public interest has nothing to do with it. Local cable has proven that the appetite for local news and info is there. While Bay News Nine is not a cash cow in terms of its production budget vs. how much advertising it pulls in, it is a big winner for Bright House in that is helps attract and more importantly (with FIOS now coming into the market) hold subscribers. The lack of Bay News Nine on FIOS has been cited by a number of people who have made the decision to say with Bright House despite some very attactive offers from Verizon.
MisterNews said:
Hi Gene! - the guy who fired you worked at CC for 25 years until he got fired. He's counting.
D
Don62
Guest
Yeah, Gabe Hobbs, the guy who Mark Larsen said "had to change his pants" the morning he awoke and heard a booming WWBA on 820 AM.DToTheJ said:
In just one year, WWBA-AM 820 has fallen from a pathetic 1.4 share to a putrid 0.4 share, reversing that trend requires high grade explosives.
In that year they have also had a bunch of changes, moved from 1040 to 820 (and is it me, but on all of my radios the volume seems low and the quality kinda sucks) and they are developing new local talent.
Now changing the midday talent is also going to hit them hard.
I for one love the station. I am not looking forward to Savage midday but all and all...good.
Now changing the midday talent is also going to hit them hard.
I for one love the station. I am not looking forward to Savage midday but all and all...good.
I would agree, the program line-up is pathetic. But CC really DOES know what they're doing-- they have made WHNZ a cash cow. I have no doubt, they're making money with these shows. That BEGS the question: WHO is actually listening? Because if these shows didn't get results, they'd be off. OR:
1- Are these shows locked-in to an unbreakable sort of contract?
2- Do the "owners" of these shows actually track results?
Bottom line for CC is... THE BOTTOM LINE. I am sure, if the station is in the black, they're happy.
1- Are these shows locked-in to an unbreakable sort of contract?
2- Do the "owners" of these shows actually track results?
Bottom line for CC is... THE BOTTOM LINE. I am sure, if the station is in the black, they're happy.
In these most recent posts you guys have broken down the good radio/good business debate to its most basic level.
1. radio is a business
2. good business doesnt always equal good radio
3. good radio doesnt always equal good business
Dave Sharp is exactly right, if 1250 is bringing in money then it is good business for CC even though it might not be "good" radio as many of us see it. People on this BBS snicker at TanTalk, informercial 1250, and other brokered or LMAed stations but if you owned one I bet you would be say HooRah! Clearly these stations are not setting the ratings on fire, yet people continue to pay to play even without measurable results. You dont get it, I dont get it, Don62 clearly doesnt get it, but obviously Clear Channel and Wagenvoord gets it.
Using another example, I dont like talk radio, dont listen to it, and probably would put it in the same category of wasted air time as some of the informercial stations. But a lot of posts are about WFLA, WWBA, WGUL, ect. Fortunes are made with Rush, Imus, Savage, et al (good business), but I personally would not categorize all those blow hards as "good radio". I do like the oldies and listen to 106.3 True Oldies (when I can hear them) so I think that is "good radio" but with WJQB hovering around a 1.1 share is it "good business"?
The point being, what one person thinks of as bad radio is someone elses good radio. And what some percieve as bad business is someone elses good business. So Don62, for the love of God, please delete 1250 from one of your presets and let those who want to listen do so. Or buy controlling interest in CC and clean 1250 up. Maybe all polka music, all the time! ;D
1. radio is a business
2. good business doesnt always equal good radio
3. good radio doesnt always equal good business
Dave Sharp is exactly right, if 1250 is bringing in money then it is good business for CC even though it might not be "good" radio as many of us see it. People on this BBS snicker at TanTalk, informercial 1250, and other brokered or LMAed stations but if you owned one I bet you would be say HooRah! Clearly these stations are not setting the ratings on fire, yet people continue to pay to play even without measurable results. You dont get it, I dont get it, Don62 clearly doesnt get it, but obviously Clear Channel and Wagenvoord gets it.
Using another example, I dont like talk radio, dont listen to it, and probably would put it in the same category of wasted air time as some of the informercial stations. But a lot of posts are about WFLA, WWBA, WGUL, ect. Fortunes are made with Rush, Imus, Savage, et al (good business), but I personally would not categorize all those blow hards as "good radio". I do like the oldies and listen to 106.3 True Oldies (when I can hear them) so I think that is "good radio" but with WJQB hovering around a 1.1 share is it "good business"?
The point being, what one person thinks of as bad radio is someone elses good radio. And what some percieve as bad business is someone elses good business. So Don62, for the love of God, please delete 1250 from one of your presets and let those who want to listen do so. Or buy controlling interest in CC and clean 1250 up. Maybe all polka music, all the time! ;D
Very good points made!.. but I would think also with making money....How much in the green are they? Can they make even more $$$ than what is going on now? If ratings are very bad (and its only part of the equation).. maybe trying to make it more "listener orientated" might help in any radio business format!! They are making a profit... thats the "Key" to a business...but can they make more?
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