2007 Format changes?

[kws31a]

I'm just curious to hear from folks IN the radio industry as to what they think may happen with certain "floundering" formats in the NYC area as we turn the calendar to 2007. How long will it take industry leaders to see the failures and decide to make NY radio more diverse with some of the mainstream missing formats? I know many will jump and say that Country and oldies for example "do not work" here, and I think at least some will say this just because it may not be a particular format that they enjoy. I believe ANY current format CAN be sold anywhere if you employ the RIGHT people to do the job, whether it's in selling ads or promoting the music. I also hear the argument that NYC is too diverse and "different" from other markets. Atlanta, for example, is very diverse, yet CC just launched yet another country format to compete with 3 other outlets in the area. I think NYC radio is too focused on selling to NYC proper and not to the surrounding areas that they supposedly serve. I realize that millions of $$ are at stake each time a broadcaster "takes a chance", but c'mon......will they continue programming some of the lowest rated failures indefinetly?

Thanks for any thoughts from industry professionals here.................

 

[Jeffrey]

I also hear the argument that NYC is too diverse and "different" from other markets. Atlanta, for example, is very diverse, yet CC just launched yet another country format to compete with 3 other outlets in the area.

You're comparing the New York market to Atlanta, Georgia?
Have you ever been to New York?

 

[TowerBuzz]

It never ceases to amaze me that people insist on comparing New York to,.......AMERICA

 

[kws31a]

Yes, I've lived in the NYC area my entire life, and I'm familiar with all the arguments. I was just curious to see what "professionals" in the radio industry felt about this argument. I know about "advertiser bias" and all that. And yes...I've been to Atlanta..have you? Although a smaller city, the "diversity" is certainly there!

 

[RadioGaGa75]

God I wish they'd realize what a dud JACK has been and bring back CBS 101. :'(

 

[NJMike]

I know many will jump and say that Country and oldies for example "do not work" here, and I think at least some will say this just because it may not be a particular format that they enjoy.

I believe ANY current format CAN be sold anywhere if you employ the RIGHT people to do the job, whether it's in selling ads or promoting the music.

I think NYC radio is too focused on selling to NYC proper and not to the surrounding areas that they supposedly serve.

Well said, ks31. I agree 100% with all the above points you made. However, sorry to be a pessimist, but my prediction for 2007 NYC format changes: none. Programmers just haven't it the past few years and I doubt they will suddenly wake up in 2007. But let them surprise us...

 

[kws31a]

I agree 100% with all the above points you made. However, sorry to be a pessimist, but my prediction for 2007 NYC format changes: none. Programmers just haven't it the past few years and I doubt they will suddenly wake up in 2007. But let them surprise us...



True. That's what I am resigned to also. It would be nice to be surprised and have them actually do something different, but I have my doubts.

 

[JohnParker]

I think that's it's been proven that Oldies does work in NY. And I believe it still can. However, Country really hasn't ever worked here, ok maybe WHN in the 70's but I'm not even sure about that. So what do you feel has changed in the NY metro that would indicate that it would suddenly work now?

jp

 

[radiolover78]

Perhaps CBS Radio will finally wake up and flip at least one of their stations. Wishful thinking.

 

[Hamp]

I also hear the argument that NYC is too diverse and "different" from other markets. Atlanta, for example, is very diverse, yet CC just launched yet another country format to compete with 3 other outlets in the area.

You're comparing the New York market to Atlanta, Georgia?
Have you ever been to New York?

Jeffrey, I think you missed the point. I don't think they were necessarily comparing NYC to Atlanta, I think they were just mentioning why can't NYC radio be more open to certain formats, that's all.
The thing I find ironic is that NYC is supposed to be one of the most diverse cities on the planet, but you have corporate consultants saying that formats such as country or oldies "won't work." Country or Oldies may not crack the top ten in NYC, but they may be in the top twenty. If NYC is that diverse there will be an audience for it with the masses of people that live there.

 

[Jeffrey]

Yes, I've lived in the NYC area my entire life, and I'm familiar with all the arguments. I was just curious to see what "professionals" in the radio industry felt about this argument. I know about "advertiser bias" and all that. And yes...I've been to Atlanta..have you? Although a smaller city, the "diversity" is certainly there!

I didn't mean to be cutting in my comment but I am familiar with both Atlanta and New York and while Atlanta has diversity as does LA, SF, Chicago, etc.........the NY. market is distinctly different and far more diverse.
That being said it is not only diversity that helps or hinders the money making formats. It is mentality. As your post seemed to specify the country format more than others I will recap stating the discussed at nauseum fact that New York advertisers are biast against the country format.
New York is one of the dance capitals of the world but you don't hear dance on the radio...why, advertisers don't think it will sell. Right or wrong that is what dictates a market's formats.
In Atlanta local advertisers wouldn't be biast against a format such as country because Atlanta is in a southern state where country has it's roots. Can you imagine Atlanta without a country station...it will never happen.....could you imagine New York without an urban or hispanic outlet???

There are pockets of the New York market where country could sell, New Jersey, Long Island but evidently even in those more country friendly areas broadcasters are not willing to risk format biast.
I can't say I blame them with millions at stake.

 

[JustinCase]

Jeffrey, I think you missed the point. I don't think they were necessarily comparing NYC to Atlanta, I think they were just mentioning why can't NYC radio be more open to certain formats, that's all.
The thing I find ironic is that NYC is supposed to be one of the most diverse cities on the planet, but you have corporate consultants saying that formats such as country or oldies "won't work." Country or Oldies may not crack the top ten in NYC, but they may be in the top twenty. If NYC is that diverse there will be an audience for it with the masses of people that live there.

Most of the time people only say Country won't work, because it has failed several times before. Oldies will have an audience, but is a tough sell to advertisers!

 

[SaltyDog]

How long will it take industry leaders to see the failures and decide to make NY radio more diverse with some of the mainstream missing formats? I realize that millions of $$ are at stake each time a broadcaster "takes a chance", but c'mon......will they continue programming some of the lowest rated failures indefinetly?

Well, I'm an "industry professional". Station owners and managers make risk assessments same as managers in any other business. In a market New York's size, even low-rated stations can spin off a lot of cash. So the inclination to "take a risk" is proportional to the financial pain the owner and/or manager might feel. If it's not bad but simply could be better, I don't see that as a reason to take a flyer and turn a station into a guinea pig. Just imagine if you owned one; what would you do? Would you "take a risk" because of a perceived format hole? Or would you cover your financial investment? I know what I'd do. I'd watch my investment get my music kicks from my iPod.

 

[Hamp]

Yes, I've lived in the NYC area my entire life, and I'm familiar with all the arguments. I was just curious to see what "professionals" in the radio industry felt about this argument. I know about "advertiser bias" and all that. And yes...I've been to Atlanta..have you? Although a smaller city, the "diversity" is certainly there!

I didn't mean to be cutting in my comment but I am familiar with both Atlanta and New York and while Atlanta has diversity as does LA, SF, Chicago, etc.........the NY. market is distinctly different and far more diverse.
That being said it is not only diversity that helps or hinders the money making formats. It is mentality. As your post seemed to specify the country format more than others I will recap stating the discussed at nauseum fact that New York advertisers are biast against the country format.
New York is one of the dance capitals of the world but you don't hear dance on the radio...why, advertisers don't think it will sell. Right or wrong that is what dictates a market's formats.
In Atlanta local advertisers wouldn't be biast against a format such as country because Atlanta is in a southern state where country has it's roots. Can you imagine Atlanta without a country station...it will never happen.....could you imagine New York without an urban or hispanic outlet???

There are pockets of the New York market where country could sell, New Jersey, Long Island but evidently even in those more country friendly areas broadcasters are not willing to risk format biast.
I can't say I blame them with millions at stake.

Wait a minute, you say you can't blame them for not going country with millions of dollars at stake, but you would go along with formats like "Jack FM" which are failing in NYC and Chicago. Yeah, that's not a waste of money.

 

[p_herring]

Yes, I've lived in the NYC area my entire life, and I'm familiar with all the arguments. I was just curious to see what "professionals" in the radio industry felt about this argument. I know about "advertiser bias" and all that. And yes...I've been to Atlanta..have you? Although a smaller city, the "diversity" is certainly there!

I didn't mean to be cutting in my comment but I am familiar with both Atlanta and New York and while Atlanta has diversity as does LA, SF, Chicago, etc.........the NY. market is distinctly different and far more diverse.
That being said it is not only diversity that helps or hinders the money making formats. It is mentality. As your post seemed to specify the country format more than others I will recap stating the discussed at nauseum fact that New York advertisers are biast against the country format.
New York is one of the dance capitals of the world but you don't hear dance on the radio...why, advertisers don't think it will sell. Right or wrong that is what dictates a market's formats.
In Atlanta local advertisers wouldn't be biast against a format such as country because Atlanta is in a southern state where country has it's roots. Can you imagine Atlanta without a country station...it will never happen.....could you imagine New York without an urban or hispanic outlet???

There are pockets of the New York market where country could sell, New Jersey, Long Island but evidently even in those more country friendly areas broadcasters are not willing to risk format biast.
I can't say I blame them with millions at stake.

Wait a minute, you say you can't blame them for not going country with millions of dollars at stake, but you would go along with formats like "Jack FM" which are failing in NYC and Chicago. Yeah, that's not a waste of money.

Whatever, the play what "they want." Well, as long as the balding, impetent consultant and corporate droners agree that it "fits the demographic"...then, they can play what they want.

 

[JustinCase]

Who says there is a "preceived hole" for country? I know there is no station, BUT, I never hear an outcry by anyone here in NY saying we want a country station. Country industry people always say there is this big need and market. They brought the CMA's to NY and I saw the crowds, but they weren't NYer's. All you had to do was look at them and/or listen to them talk to know that.

 

[TowerBuzz]

God I wish they'd realize what a dud JACK has been and bring back CBS 101. :'(

Hey GAga here's the problem with your thinking: Even if they bring back CBS FM you would still be unhappy because they would be playing oldies but wthout stalwarts like Cousin Brucie. See I honestly believe that the music wasn't as much an issue as the personalities that people had truly come to love like Brucie who is off at Sirius where NO ONE HEARS HIM! So any way you look at it if they brought back CBS FM they would not really be bringing back CBS FM.

Capice?.

 

[Jeffrey]

[/quote]
Wait a minute, you say you can't blame them for not going country with millions of dollars at stake, but you would go along with formats like "Jack FM" which are failing in NYC and Chicago. Yeah, that's not a waste of money.
[/quote]

Whether I agree or not is besides the point. Jack fm was supposed to be a trend setting format in this market and others that they felt would sell. It isn't working. Country isn't hot here and has never been and they know that....after all, it has been tried.

 

[Hamp]

Who says there is a "preceived hole" for country? I know there is no station, BUT, I never hear an outcry by anyone here in NY saying we want a country station. Country industry people always say there is this big need and market. They brought the CMA's to NY and I saw the crowds, but they weren't NYer's. All you had to do was look at them and/or listen to them talk to know that.

So you mean to tell me in a metro close to about 20 million people, there isn't a format hole for country music? I find that hard to believe, I don't care if it is New York. With that many types of people, the audience would be there somewhere. I just think corporate entities just don't know how to promote country music in an Urban Market like NYC.

 

[JustinCase]

So you mean to tell me in a metro close to about 20 million people, there isn't a format hole for country music? I find that hard to believe, I don't care if it is New York. With that many types of people, the audience would be there somewhere. I just think corporate entities just don't know how to promote country music in an Urban Market like NYC.

It's not like there hasn't been country stations here, there have been and they didn't do all that well in times before urban and hip hop cultures became mainstream. In a city that has plenty of people who call commuters from our over developed and sprawling suburbs "country"... I am not sure that music really connects with the vast audiences of New York.

Will there be listeners, definitely, any format has someone, but a country station in NYC would have to work overly hard to promote to the masses... it'd have to have big recognizable names as jocks (known to people outside country circles), constant star power and live appearances and a continual media blitz of ads and billboards to make a splash to draw non traditional crowds. It would be expensive and I'm not sure there is enough of an audience to demand such an undertaking during these days of downsizing. Especially with a format at a crossroads. Country artists are adding rappers and rock star duets to try and remain relevent, it's biggest stars crossover to the pop world, with airplay of less twangy versions of their songs.