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Re: BUSH TOOK ACTION WITHIN 6 HOURS...

> > The City and State should have been using school busses to
>
> > get those people out before the storm hit. They could
> have
> > taken them to schools in other parishes. Why they didn't
> is
> > beyond me!
> >
>
> The school busses in New Orleans had been privatized. The
> government doesn't own the busses or pay the drivers.
>
> Doesn't HISD also use private busses instead of their own?
>

Are you saying the STATE could not provide school buses? They are now using school buses in the AFTERMATH.

The first responders (City and State) fell flat on their face.
 
Re: Hey Michael Moore

What's this?

How dare anyone defend it taking four days to get the ball rolling.
There is no defense for this. Trying to make excuses only makes matters worse.

Please. It's shameful.

A state of emergency was declared in advance.
 
Re: BUSH TOOK ACTION WITHIN 6 HOURS...

> > Sorry for the rant. But , local officials are the first
> > responders and they fell like a house of cards.
> >
> > We must help those people that came here. It is what we in
>
> > the Greatest State in the union does;and that is HELP
> anyone
> > who needs it
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Excellent post !!
>

As some one who works in local government (here in Texas) and originally from Louisiana, I can confirm alot of what has been said. First, local government officials are the first responders. Secondly, the apparent lack of an emergency management plan by the local officials there is a travesty. In the cities I have worked in, we have set policies in place that determine what to do in a worse-case scenario. The federal government is seen a place to go to get reimbursement after implementing our LOCAL disaster recovery plans. I don't know what the City of N.O., the surrounding parishes, and the levee board were or were not doing... but they are the ones responsible first and foremost. Its not like the idea that the failure of the levee system would bring chaos is new. The local officials should have had a remediation plan in place for each area of the levee and the backup funds/resources to implement it. The "investments" of the levee board in various fluff projects (e.g. casino related items) is ridiculous. The federal government is NOT to blame here.
 
Re: BUSH TOOK ACTION WITHIN 6 HOURS...

Your post is an amusing fantasy. If Bush is blameless in this situation, why is it that he's already acknowledged major problems and slowness in the federal response? And this from a man who never accepts responsibility for any of his blunders, which are too numerous to count.

This was a huge problem beyond the scope of any first responders at the state and local level to effectively deal with it, and everyone in this nation knows it except you. If you don't believe me, just wait for the poll numbers on Bush's handling of this mess.

Not only has Bush acknowledged the federal government's boondoggle, but so has Homeland Security Secretary Chertoff, and numerous top Republicans. In fact, show me one major Republican other than perhaps Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour (a former RNC chairman, by the way), who defends Bush, and even Barbour doesn't do so with much enthusiasm.

When Fox news anchor Shepard Smith even starts complaining about the incompetence of the federal response, you can make book that serious problems occurred.

Bush was even stupid enough to assert that no one expected the levees to break when several computer models had already demonstrated that they might well break.

Bottom line-the Administration blew it, they know they blew it, they had a massive political problem with the war in Iraq, which has now been compounded by being far too slow in arising from vacation mode.

End of story.

However, for the great disaster and tragedy in New
> Orleans,
> > Bush just played golf and went to a fund raiser in
> > California. Congress waited until 4 days AFTER the tragedy
>
> > to take any action.
> >
>
> Hey buddy,
>
> Hurricanes are handled on the local and state level. It is
> up to the State Governor to bring in the Feds if needed.
>
> The evacuation was a MANDATORY EVACUATION! Bush came on
> radio and TV telling the citizens to EVACUATE.
>
> I am a liberal, but a rational one, and blaming Bush for
> everything under the Sun is NOT going to help our party. It
> just makes us look like idiots to rational thinking people.
>
>
> JMHO
>
 
Re: Revisonist History

> Try again....
>

Okay, try this on for size.

The state DOES NOT have to request the National Guard. The president has the authority to send National Guard troops in without a state request. This was last done by George HW Bush after the LA riots in 1992.

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179587/page/5/> For days, Bush's top advisers argued over legal niceties about who was in charge, according to three White House officials...</a>

What you are seeing now is a plan being orchestrated by Karl Rove and other White House officials to <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05bush.html?pagewanted=print>move the blame to Louisiana state officials</a>. And in fact, you're spouting their talking points.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
Re: Revisonist History

> > Try again....
> >
>
> Okay, try this on for size.
>
> The state DOES NOT have to request the National Guard. The
> president has the authority to send National Guard troops in
> without a state request. This was last done by George HW
> Bush after the LA riots in 1992.
>
> For days, Bush's top advisers argued over legal niceties
> about who was in charge, according to three White House
> officials...
>
> What you are seeing now is a plan being orchestrated by Karl
> Rove and other White House officials to move the blame to
> Louisiana state officials. And in fact, you're spouting
> their talking points.
>


In those letters that you post from the State Governor to the FEDs did you see ANY mention of the possible LEVEE situation? No you did not. Why not is the question.

I am sorry but the City and State are the FIRST responders in this situation and they fell flat on their faces. The only thing they asked from the FEDS was for financial help.

Here is a post from people who work these type of situations that was posted a few post down in this thread:

------
"As some one who works in local government (here in Texas) and originally from Louisiana, I can confirm alot of what has been said. First, local government officials are the first responders. Secondly, the apparent lack of an emergency management plan by the local officials there is a travesty. In the cities I have worked in, we have set policies in place that determine what to do in a worse-case scenario. The federal government is seen a place to go to get reimbursement after implementing our LOCAL disaster recovery plans. I don't know what the City of N.O., the surrounding parishes, and the levee board were or were not doing... but they are the ones responsible first and foremost. Its not like the idea that the failure of the levee system would bring chaos is new. The local officials should have had a remediation plan in place for each area of the levee and the backup funds/resources to implement it. The "investments" of the levee board in various fluff projects (e.g. casino related items) is ridiculous. The federal government is NOT to blame here. "


>
> What you are seeing now is a plan being orchestrated by Karl
> Rove and other White House officials to move the blame to
> Louisiana state officials. And in fact, you're spouting
> their talking points.
>

I am not "spouting talking points" I am spouting reality and rational thought. I don't wear tin-foil hats. I was wondering how long it would be before Karl Rove was "behind" this... Good show ! Misinformed logic takes my breath away.
 
Re: BUSH TOOK ACTION WITHIN 6 HOURS...

> Your post is an amusing fantasy. If Bush is blameless in
> this situation, why is it that he's already acknowledged
> major problems and slowness in the federal response? And
> this from a man who never accepts responsibility for any of
> his blunders, which are too numerous to count.
>


Yes, FEMA handled it poorly.... But the first responders, City and State, fell flat on their faces. Have you read the letters to the FEDS from the State Governor? The only thing she ask for is financial assistance... period ! She does not even mention the LEVEE!

You can find the link in a reply to me by JohnDavis.

And from some else who just posted:

"As some one who works in local government (here in Texas) and originally from Louisiana, I can confirm alot of what has been said. First, local government officials are the first responders. Secondly, the apparent lack of an emergency management plan by the local officials there is a travesty. In the cities I have worked in, we have set policies in place that determine what to do in a worse-case scenario. The federal government is seen a place to go to get reimbursement after implementing our LOCAL disaster recovery plans. I don't know what the City of N.O., the surrounding parishes, and the levee board were or were not doing... but they are the ones responsible first and foremost. Its not like the idea that the failure of the levee system would bring chaos is new. The local officials should have had a remediation plan in place for each area of the levee and the backup funds/resources to implement it. The "investments" of the levee board in various fluff projects (e.g. casino related items) is ridiculous. The federal government is NOT to blame here. "


> This was a huge problem beyond the scope of any first
> responders at the state and local level to effectively deal
> with it, and everyone in this nation knows it except you.
>

I am the ONLY one who did not know this? LOL !!! Try reading the request to the FEDS by the State Governor... obviously she did know it either... The only request she gives is for financial assistance and tells the FEDS of their PLANS that they are putting into action.

LA gov Blanco requested federal assistance on Sunday 8/28/05. Here's a copy of the request: http://gov.la.gov/Disaster Relief Request.pdf

Think boy think !!!
 
Re: Hey Michael Moore

> What's this?
>
> How dare anyone defend it taking four days to get the ball
> rolling.
> There is no defense for this. Trying to make excuses only
> makes matters worse.
>
> Please. It's shameful.
>
> A state of emergency was declared in advance.
>

True enough! Not only that, but, with all the experience we have with hurricanes, i.e., Galveston 1900, 1935, 1947, Hurricanes Betsy, Camille, Hugo, Andrew, and now, Katrina, you'd think that the officials....ALL of them, would have learned that the time to put rescue, transportation, infrastructure repair and medical help in motion is BEFORE the storm hits. What more do you want? The National Hurricane Center in Miami told us exactly where the storm would hit. They, also, told us how hard the strom would hit. Why did the public officials wait until after the storm to start lining up buses, helicopter, etc.? Be it 4 hours, or 4 days after the storm hits....anytime after is too late. Let's learn from this, and quit pointing fingers across partisan lines!

Sincerely,

Hurricane Camille survivor
 
Re: Hey Michael Moore

> What's this?
>
> How dare anyone defend it taking four days to get the ball
> rolling.
> There is no defense for this. Trying to make excuses only
> makes matters worse.
>
> Please. It's shameful.
>
> A state of emergency was declared in advance.
>


Yes a State of Emergency was declared in advance. And if you read the letters to the FEDS from the State Governor you'll note that the request is for FINANCIAL assistance and a reassurance that the State had a plan of action in place.

LA gov Blanco requested federal assistance on Sunday 8/28/05. Here's a copy of the request: http://gov.la.gov/Disaster Relief Request.pdf

No mention of a request for National Guard nor troops, just a request for money.

The City fell flat on teir face, The State fell flat on their face, and FEMA fell flat on their face. Bush should not have to MICRO manage those enitities of government, especially the City and State. But when they all fell on their faces and Bush took the reigns over all agencies then things started hopping in short order. It's an embarrasment that Bush had to MICRO manage a City and a State that froze in the face of disaster.
 
Re: Revisonist History

> I am not "spouting talking points" I am spouting reality and
> rational thought. I don't wear tin-foil hats. I was
> wondering how long it would be before Karl Rove was "behind"
> this... Good show ! Misinformed logic takes my breath away.
>

You obviously didn't read the <a target="_blank" href=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05bush.html?pagewanted=print>link</a> from the New York Times. Some excerpts:

Under the command of President Bush's two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan this weekend to contain the political damage from the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina.

It orchestrated visits by cabinet members to the region, leading up to an extraordinary return visit by Mr. Bush planned for Monday, directed administration officials not to respond to attacks from Democrats on the relief efforts, and sought to move the blame for the slow response to Louisiana state officials, according to Republicans familiar with the White House plan.

The effort is being directed by Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, and his communications director, Dan Bartlett. It began late last week after Congressional Republicans called White House officials to register alarm about what they saw as a feeble response by Mr. Bush to the hurricane, according to Republican Congressional aides.

As a result, Americans watching television coverage of the disaster this weekend began to see, amid the destruction and suffering, some of the most prominent members of the administration - Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Donald H. Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense; and Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state - touring storm-damaged communities.

Game. Set. Match. <P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
Re: Revisonist History

>
>
> You obviously didn't read the link from the New York Times.
> Some excerpts:
>
> Under the command of President Bush's two senior political
> advisers, the White House rolled out a plan this weekend to
> contain the political damage from the administration's
> response to Hurricane Katrina.
>

Nothing wrong with damage control.

Now you take a peek at something:


Multiple failures caused relief crisis
Analysis
By Paul Reynolds
World Affairs correspondent, BBC News website

"The evacuation

It was announced at a news conference by the Mayor Ray Nagin on Sunday 28 August, less than 24 hours before the hurricane struck early the next morning.

The question has to be asked: Why was it not ordered earlier?

The Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco said at the same news conference that President Bush had called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation.

The night before, National Hurricane Director Max Mayfield had called Mayor Nagin to tell him that an evacuation was needed. Why were these calls necessary?

Again, as with Fema, the New Orleans mayor should have known that on the Saturday, Katrina was strengthening to Five.

It was already clear on the Sunday that the evacuation would not cover many of the poor, the sick and those who did not pay heed.

The mayor said people going to the Superdome, a sports venue named as an alternative destination for those unable to leave, should bring supplies for several days. He also said police could commandeer any vehicle for the evacuation.

But how much support was there at the Superdome? And how much city transport was actually used? There is a photo showing city school buses still lined up, in waterlogged parking lots, after the hurricane.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40765000/jpg/_40765970_buses.jpg

Update: a reader has pointed out that there are detailed plans for Louisiana and the City of New Orleans for an evacuation and these make it clear that buses should be used to transport those without cars. See links.

There are questions for the mayor, dubbed heroic by some, to answer."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4216508.stm
 
Re: Revisonist History

>
> Nothing wrong with damage control.

Except you dismissed it as tin-foil hat conspiracy theories, even though my original post came with documentation.

It's just too bad that our government is more interested in controlling the damage of their reputations than it is of one of America's cities. We see where their priorities lie.

<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
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