I must admit, I much prefer the latter.
But..... I'm an outlier, stubbornly holding onto all the things the mainstream has largely abandoned.
c
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560
- Thread starter K108 Sacramento
- Start date
But..... I'm an outlier, stubbornly holding onto all the things the mainstream has largely abandoned.
c
I noticed that Soft AC The Breeze KISQ no longer plays any pre-1980 music.
Unless you want your call letters to end up in a thread like this one, you program to a demographic and allow people to age into and out of it.
That might be it kinda, sorta... The idea behind running the OTR is that it is entertaining programming that wouldn't cost much, if anything. Moreso than the nostalgia factor. Avoid the dated programs and push the more timeless ones. But a radio station can't be just an MP3 player with a tower. There has to be more.I think this is what your envisioning. This is a part 15 on 1610 AM. I believe it's run by one of the users of this board.
Antioch OTR
radio.macinmind.com
No one will want to listen to comedy or drama at 8 in the morning. They will want news and information. Could a deal be made to turn over virtually the entire drive time to a TV station, commercials and all? The impoverished radio station gets a kinda sorta morning show. The TV station can promote it as being able "to take us with you as you go to work." After morning drive, entertainment could begin, but if we are talking the SF Bay Area (and bearing in mind I do not know the radio landscape there), could a left leaning talk program covering SF Bay issues grab attention? A spin through radio locator suggests that the only talk is going to be at KQED and KSFO, and I'll bet KQED is heavy on the NPR national lineup. There might be community activists (who might even be willing to kick in money for it to start) that could be paired with an experienced radio somebody to host a local non-MAGA show? THEN the entertainment shows could take over the afternoon. It would be different and with a little promotion, maybe from that TV station getting the free ride in the morning, get noticed. At night, who cares - either rerun the daytime program, or spin records. Could it get more than .1 share? It would certainly get more than what is at 560 now.
Even in this scenario, this is only really for consideration at some place other than 560. Someone posted that Cumulus wants to sell it. Sell what? I think there is no studio, and there is no format or audience to inherit. It is like they are starting over from scratch circa 1925. For that it only worth what the transmitter is worth, if in fact that even exists.
The license. And perhaps the tower site lease. The tower & transmitter still exist.
Who would buy? Someone seeking to provide a radio station for an ethnic group in the area.
We're talking some specialized audience, most likely Asian.
Hope springs eternal, as does this thread.
There’s a lot we don’t know about 560. We know that it’s silent, and has until March 4 to get back on the air. If it doesn’t get back on the air, it loses its license. We also know that Cumulus seemed to hint in its most recent STA filing that there were negotiations ongoing to sell the station. We can make reasonable guesses about a lot of other things, and we can make guesses about the station’s ultimate future. But there’s been nothing definite so far, and there doesn’t have to be until March 4. Meanwhile, let a thousand fantasies bloom.
Yes I know. That's what I was doing.
Well, sure. I’m thinking more about some of the programming ideas that have been proposed. I’m all for creative thinking, but it’s got to meet financial requirements at some point. I think you and I agree that Cumulus’ decisions are going to be based entirely on finances and preserving what value it can.
Even if all your programming was in the public domain and free of charge, you would have bills to pay. An FCC broadcast license isn't free. There's a fee. Anyone who has an FCC broadcast license and doesn't have an engineer and an attorney on retainer is crazy. You need a tower site, and you'll likely be renting the tower or the land it sits on. The transmitter needs to be in a building. Whatever runs your programming needs to be in a building. Even if that's the transmitter shack, someone needs to find, upload and schedule the programming. To offset those costs (and there would be more than those), you'll need someone to sell advertising.
There is no such thing as "timeless" old time radio. The newest show is a 1962 episode of "Suspense". Sixty-four years old this fall. This is it---it begins :50 seconds into this aircheck recorded from WROW, Albany, New York:
The Suspense Project: 1962-09-30 Devilstone : The Suspense Project : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
NOTE: This is the eighth of eight Suspense episodes that Jack Johnstone submitted to the series under the name “Jack Bundy” or “Jonathan Bundy.” All...
archive.org
That's the audio equivalent of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
First, it was tried, in many markets, in the 1990s. The biggest drawback at the time? Television writes to the pictures it shows, so the audience is getting a lot of "as you can see", which it can't.
Second, podcasts exist now---and that's where the action is for drive time listeners who want longform spoken word content.
Third---if someone does want to hear the audio of a TV show, pretty much every TV station has an app and their audience can simply stream it live via earbuds, over their car stereo, whatever.
Fourth---if you give the drive times over to the TV station, commercials and all, where does your radio station make money in the most valuable dayparts---morning and afternoon drive?
KQED has a highly acclaimed local issues show, Forum, which airs weekdays from 9:00-10:00 a.m. Community activists have stations such as KALW and KPFA that they can turn to for airtime on issues of importance, and those stations are commercial-free.
An experienced radio somebody in San Francisco costs money. As does the engineer to run the controls. As does the call screener. That's three live bodies that will almost certainly be union members.
You need to understand that Cumulus pulled the plug on KGO and took it to sports betting in 2022 when the station had a 1.7. The target isn't an 0.2, it's a 2.0. Between the exodus of listeners from 810, and 560 being dark for ten months, the total available audience on AM (not counting stations with FM simulcasts) probably can't get you that number. KNBR, which is an AM-FM simulcast, is at a 1.8 in the last book.
Let's switch for a moment from quarter-hour shares (which is the 0.7 number KSFO on 810 has now) and look at cume (short for cumulative audience). That's the number of people who listen to a station in a week. For KSFO on 810, that's 111,900 people. More people (140,500) listen to the noncommercial jazz station from San Mateo Community College, KCSM (91.5), than listen to KSFO.
Let's take it a step further and add the cumes of all AM stations without a simulcast in the most recent San Francisco book together, which gives us a rough idea of how many people listen to AM in the area in a week.
That number is 241,600. Now, some of the AM stations that are simulcast on FM certainly have people who listen to the AM, so let's round up for that---let's say a third of KCBS' cume and a third of KNBR's cume are people listening on AM.
That's 592,600 people---so let's just make it an even 600,000 people who listen to AM in the Bay Area in a week. All stations combined.
That number is just slightly more than half the number of people who listen to KOIT (96.5) all by itself in a week (1,162,300).
It's less than the weekly cume for KISQ (98.1) in a week (758,500).
It's less than the weekly cume for KLLC (97.3) in a week (741,400).
It's less than the weekly cume for KMVQ (99.7) in a week (698,500).
It's less than the weekly cume for KQED (88.5) in a week (684,700).
It's less than the weekly come for KYLD (94.9) in a week (681,100).
That's SEVEN FM stations that, by themselves, have more listeners in a week than the ENTIRE AM band in San Francisco.
There's a term in commercial real estate---foot traffic. Businesses use it to figure out how many people walk by or into a given building, to assess whether it's wise to open a store in a specific place.
AM radio has lousy foot traffic.
If I'm right about a third of the listeners to AM/FM simulcasts listening to AM, then there's a couple hundred thousand people listening to KCBS (740), a hundred thousand listening to KNBR (680) and then what Nielsen tells us---111,900 listening to KSFO (810), 35,500 listening to KTCT (1050), 34,500 listening to KSRO (1350) and 14,600 listening to KKSF (910).
The rest of the AM band doesn't even show up. There's nothing you can do to bring listeners back to AM---they've been leaving for more than 40 years. Entire generations have grown up not listening to AM.
Honestly, any energy directed at revitalizing radio should be directed at FM, because those listeners have begun to bail, and it'll take them a lot less than 40 years to clear out.
Which is why they have shut the station down. This isn't by accident, and it's not for lack of programming ideas. Cumulus owns a program syndication company. If they were looking for cheap programming, all they have to do is run a 24/7 Westwood One format. But they'd still have to keep the lights on and pay operating expenses. This way, they don't. Cumulus has shown they aren't afraid to simply turn in a license when there are no better options. We appear to be a few weeks away from that here.
Everything you've said is right, except that Forum runs from 9-11 A.M.Even if all your programming was in the public domain and free of charge, you would have bills to pay. An FCC broadcast license isn't free. There's a fee. Anyone who has an FCC broadcast license and doesn't have an engineer and an attorney on retainer is crazy. You need a tower site, and you'll likely be renting the tower or the land it sits on. The transmitter needs to be in a building. Whatever runs your programming needs to be in a building. Even if that's the transmitter shack, someone needs to find, upload and schedule the programming. To offset those costs (and there would be more than those), you'll need someone to sell advertising.
There is no such thing as "timeless" old time radio. The newest show is a 1962 episode of "Suspense". Sixty-four years old this fall. This is it---it begins :50 seconds into this aircheck recorded from WROW, Albany, New York:
The Suspense Project: 1962-09-30 Devilstone : The Suspense Project : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
NOTE: This is the eighth of eight Suspense episodes that Jack Johnstone submitted to the series under the name “Jack Bundy” or “Jonathan Bundy.” All...archive.org
That's the audio equivalent of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
First, it was tried, in many markets, in the 1990s. The biggest drawback at the time? Television writes to the pictures it shows, so the audience is getting a lot of "as you can see", which it can't.
Second, podcasts exist now---and that's where the action is for drive time listeners who want longform spoken word content.
Third---if someone does want to hear the audio of a TV show, pretty much every TV station has an app and their audience can simply stream it live via earbuds, over their car stereo, whatever.
Fourth---if you give the drive times over to the TV station, commercials and all, where does your radio station make money in the most valuable dayparts---morning and afternoon drive?
KQED has a highly acclaimed local issues show, Forum, which airs weekdays from 9:00-10:00 a.m. Community activists have stations such as KALW and KPFA that they can turn to for airtime on issues of importance, and those stations are commercial-free.
An experienced radio somebody in San Francisco costs money. As does the engineer to run the controls. As does the call screener. That's three live bodies that will almost certainly be union members.
You need to understand that Cumulus pulled the plug on KGO and took it to sports betting in 2022 when the station had a 1.7. The target isn't an 0.2, it's a 2.0. Between the exodus of listeners from 810, and 560 being dark for ten months, the total available audience on AM (not counting stations with FM simulcasts) probably can't get you that number. KNBR, which is an AM-FM simulcast, is at a 1.8 in the last book.
Let's switch for a moment from quarter-hour shares (which is the 0.7 number KSFO on 810 has now) and look at cume (short for cumulative audience). That's the number of people who listen to a station in a week. For KSFO on 810, that's 111,900 people. More people (140,500) listen to the noncommercial jazz station from San Mateo Community College, KCSM (91.5), than listen to KSFO.
Let's take it a step further and add the cumes of all AM stations without a simulcast in the most recent San Francisco book together, which gives us a rough idea of how many people listen to AM in the area in a week.
That number is 241,600. Now, some of the AM stations that are simulcast on FM certainly have people who listen to the AM, so let's round up for that---let's say a third of KCBS' cume and a third of KNBR's cume are people listening on AM.
That's 592,600 people---so let's just make it an even 600,000 people who listen to AM in the Bay Area in a week. All stations combined.
That number is just slightly more than half the number of people who listen to KOIT (96.5) all by itself in a week (1,162,300).
It's less than the weekly cume for KISQ (98.1) in a week (758,500).
It's less than the weekly cume for KLLC (97.3) in a week (741,400).
It's less than the weekly cume for KMVQ (99.7) in a week (698,500).
It's less than the weekly cume for KQED (88.5) in a week (684,700).
It's less than the weekly come for KYLD (94.9) in a week (681,100).
That's SEVEN FM stations that, by themselves, have more listeners in a week than the ENTIRE AM band in San Francisco.
There's a term in commercial real estate---foot traffic. Businesses use it to figure out how many people walk by or into a given building, to assess whether it's wise to open a store in a specific place.
AM radio has lousy foot traffic.
If I'm right about a third of the listeners to AM/FM simulcasts listening to AM, then there's a couple hundred thousand people listening to KCBS (740), a hundred thousand listening to KNBR (680) and then what Nielsen tells us---111,900 listening to KSFO (810), 35,500 listening to KTCT (1050), 34,500 listening to KSRO (1350) and 14,600 listening to KKSF (910).
The rest of the AM band doesn't even show up. There's nothing you can do to bring listeners back to AM---they've been leaving for more than 40 years. Entire generations have grown up not listening to AM.
Honestly, any energy directed at revitalizing radio should be directed at FM, because those listeners have begun to bail, and it'll take them a lot less than 40 years to clear out.
Which is what I get for checking the schedule on my phone. Two hours. Thanks!
No problem. It's also a mix of local, state, national and world topics. The first hour is usually a local or state topic, and the second hour is a national or world topic, with exceptions when there's a breaking news event overnight.
There’s the lede right there. It’s the Bay Fair mall of media.
That’s a good point, and one I hadn’t considered. Programming is available but it seems clear that Cumulus saw no future in it for 560.
Ultimately, these are business decisions.
Exactly. The time for programming ideas was 15 years ago. Not now. That time has passed.
Cumulus couldn't afford to stay in their own studios. They moved in with Bonneville. Now Bonneville is leaving.
What we're talking about is huge financial distress that goes beyond one station or even one company.
An analogy I made back in the fall of 2022. I think it's probably the closest:
They just played Your Song by Elton John from 1970.
Not that it would matter to me. The sound quality is so bad, I can't stand to listen for more than a few seconds.
c