60 in a Row

[davideduardo]

These days those two different “national brand” gas stations could actually have the same owner, so if business shifts from one to the other there is no financial loss. Same thing for “competing” radio stations.

In this case, however, we are talking about a similar product on two competitively owned stations. The underdog is counting on sharing some listening with the big station, thus reducing its share and making it less dominant and, thus, getting a smaller share of budgets.

 

[TheBigA]

If you live in Buffalo, or actually spent some time here, you know that there really isn’t a need for a second country station. The wolf is simply a flanker to pull numbers from WYRK.

This is what is known as "competition." It used to happen all the time in radio. There was no "need" for three Top 40 stations in a market, especially in the days before FM, but that sometimes happened. It doesn't happen because of need.

 

[flybynight]

Wouldn't you want to reserve that for something done by Clear Channel?

I was thinking microcosm.

 

[flybynight]

This is what is known as "competition." It used to happen all the time in radio. There was no "need" for three Top 40 stations in a market, especially in the days before FM, but that sometimes happened. It doesn't happen because of need.

My daddy told us kids that at one time radio people could get fired and hired numerous times in one town. He said bosses used to worry about their employees going across the street to work for the other guy. And he also told us how he and his friends would chase the ice wagon down the street in summertime---and live in fear of caster oil.

 

[DN14224]

This is what is known as "competition." It used to happen all the time in radio. There was no "need" for three Top 40 stations in a market, especially in the days before FM, but that sometimes happened. It doesn't happen because of need.

But that’s not the case here. If the Wolf were real “competition” for WYRK it would have come out of the gate with a full on promotional blitz, appearances everywhere around town and a full liv3 & local air staff, But that’s not what it’s done. As I said before, there’s nothing more than a flanker to take some points from WYRK.

 

[davideduardo]

But that’s not the case here. If the Wolf were real “competition” for WYRK it would have come out of the gate with a full on promotional blitz, appearances everywhere around town and a full liv3 & local air staff, But that’s not what it’s done. As I said before, there’s nothing more than a flanker to take some points from WYRK.

Or... WYRK's management understands audiences and ratings and the volatility of listeners when a stopset starts or "I hate that song" plays. They would know that they will share cume, and that is not avoidable. So a good tactic is to be totally normal and not rock the boat. Predictability is a very positive position for a station that knows it is doing its format well.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Programming decisions are based as much or more on advertiser needs as on listener tastes.

Salient and relevant point ... yet, "no listeners, no revenue" also figures into the equation. But let's set the "no listeners, no revenue" premise aside and discuss "advertiser needs."

Buying a known commodity (established format) at retail over an unknown (on the "if come") at discount is a roll of the dice that many advertisers in Western New York may not want to undertake. Is buying one hundred 60s @ $25 per unit more effective and efficient than buying twenty 60s at $125. Yes, we're aware that frequency (the fuel that powers listener response) relative to ad placement has been discussed in other threads. The concept and theory are understood. The question is, how do advertisers, especially local-direct, answer that question. In many cases, there's a fear of the unknown which leads to advertisers choosing to invest in the known, proven commodity that gets (or has produced) results.

The question becomes, "do advertisers need another Country format station?"

 

[b-turner]

Off topic, but those two different national brands of gas stations get the same gas as the other brand, perhaps from the very same truck. What distinguishes the brands is the additives added to that big tank in the ground. I learned that in Del Rio, Texas from a client, Rytex (I think) that had the Texaco stations. Rytex distributed the gasoline to all the stations including their Texaco stations.

On topic: If you can pull a competitor down a couple of points, you can greatly change the buy sheet for the advertising agency, The art is to have your stations in position to claim those dollars and get on that buy sheet.

 

[tbolt909]

What they're selling is uninterrupted music. The competition is running 16 minutes of spots. The minute WYRK starts a break, would you sit through it or change to non-stop music? You tell me. If they can get 25% of the listeners to switch, they've won.

Won what? Alternative Buffalo used to say "55 minutes of music an hour". They were virtually commercial free for YEARS and still couldn't get ratings. No audience--no revenue.

This strategy also hasn't worked for WBUF vs 97 Rock. Listening habits are entrenched and finding new radio listeners is unlikely. These recent "New" generic formats have excited no one. Advertisers are probably satisfied with the results on WYRK, so they have no reason to switch.

WBUF is not affecting 97 Rock. The Wolf will not affect WYRK. It's just a pissing war to see who spirals down the drain first...

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Won what? Alternative Buffalo used to say "55 minutes of music an hour". They were virtually commercial free for YEARS and still couldn't get ratings. No audience--no revenue.

This strategy also hasn't worked for WBUF vs 97 Rock. Listening habits are entrenched and finding new radio listeners is unlikely. These recent "New" generic formats have excited no one. Advertisers are probably satisfied with the results on WYRK, so they have no reason to switch.

WBUF is not affecting 97 Rock. The Wolf will not affect WYRK. It's just a pissing war to see who spirals down the drain first...

Word is the incoming PD at WYRK is a low-key, actions-speak-louder-than-words kind of guy. Radio's version of Bill Belichick or Marv Levy. Safe to project that he'll bolster WYRK's ratings and quietly but efficiently destroy Audacy's Wolf. With his experience and background, look for a format flip at 107.7 within 18 months.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

With his experience and background, look for a format flip at 107.7 within 18 months.

To what? What format's missing in the market?

 

[CTListener]

To what? What format's missing in the market?

Let me guess: AAA, Smooth Jazz, Deep Classic Hits ...

 

[TheBigA]

But that’s not the case here. If the Wolf were real “competition” for WYRK it would have come out of the gate with a full on promotional blitz, appearances everywhere around town and a full liv3 & local air staff,

Who in Buffalo has a full live & local staff? Not even WYRK has that. This is a slow launch. They're still in non-stop music mode. No commercials. They just bought their first TV spots. Why would they buy TV spots? Did they ever buy TV spots for Alt107.7? Format competition doesn't mean you win. iHeart does this a lot. They did it in LA with Alternative, and they did it in Atlanta with country. iHeart doesn't use a media blitz or full live & local air staff because they're iHeart. But they know how to compete.

The question becomes, "do advertisers need another Country format station?"

Ask them. Ask them if they buy formats or audience. My experience is advertisers buy audience. Ask Buddy. Is Buddy selling Oldies or is he selling audience. I bet he's selling audience. The format is the hook that attracts an audience. Not the other way around. Advertisers also buy price. The Wolf will be available at a lower price. That can be attractive. We'll see what advertisers think next month when they start running commercials.

 

[tbolt909]

Word is the incoming PD at WYRK is a low-key, actions-speak-louder-than-words kind of guy. Radio's version of Bill Belichick or Marv Levy. Safe to project that he'll bolster WYRK's ratings and quietly but efficiently destroy Audacy's Wolf. With his experience and background, look for a format flip at 107.7 within 18 months.

That's hyperbole. Belichick has won multiple championships.

The new guy at WYRK just left Audacy (who owns The Wolf). He must know the landscape. He just needs to stay the course at WYRK and quietly make it to his retirement...

 

[Radio-Bored-Op]

It's marketing, not brain surgery. People will find any reason to complain.

What's completely overlooked here is that Audacy has bought TV ads! I saw that, and thought how often does that happen today? Is this a regular feature in Buffalo? I don't think so. It's happening at a time when Sirius is also buying TV ads. When The Wolf was launched, people wondered if Audacy would invest in a marketing campaign for the station. The answer is yes.

excellent point...
I honestly recall only seeing Shredd and Ragan and that was quite a few years ago

 

[tbolt909]

Who in Buffalo has a full live & local staff? Not even WYRK has that. This is a slow launch. They're still in non-stop music mode. No commercials. They just bought their first TV spots. Why would they buy TV spots? Did they ever buy TV spots for Alt107.7? Format competition doesn't mean you win. iHeart does this a lot. They did it in LA with Alternative, and they did it in Atlanta with country. iHeart doesn't use a media blitz or full live & local air staff because they're iHeart. But they know how to compete.



Ask them. Ask them if they buy formats or audience. My experience is advertisers buy audience. Ask Buddy. Is Buddy selling Oldies or is he selling audience. I bet he's selling audience. The format is the hook that attracts an audience. Not the other way around. Advertisers also buy price. The Wolf will be available at a lower price. That can be attractive. We'll see what advertisers think next month when they start running commercials.

That's right. Advertisers buy audience. The Wolf has a very small one (see ratings). You're incorrect because they have already been running commercials. Not many, but a few. Entercom did run TV ads and bought billboards for Alternative Buffalo in the beginning. It didn't work.

"60 in a Row" must be a lame joke. It doesn't mean commercial free or 60 songs in a row before a commercial. It's just puffery. If the content is bad, "commercial free" doesn't help...

 

[TheBigA]

That's right. Advertisers buy audience. The Wolf has a very small one (see ratings).

Small audience means they can sell at a lower price. The numbers you see are 12+ Mon-Sun 6AM-Mid. The sales people have the breakouts. They have the demos, they have listening patterns, and they have all the details advertisers want to see. You don't have any of that. I learned a long time ago that if you aren't the ratings leader, you look for something else in the numbers to sell. So they're not #1 12+, but they may be #1 in some other category. That's what a sales team looks at, and they put those numbers in front of advertisers. Country is their best chance with this signal.

 

[gr8oldies]

When programming, one has to recognize that there is no "need" for any station. Usage is created by convenience and opportunity. So, if one broadcast group wants to bring down a market leader by a bit, they counter program to slice away shares from the competitor. The result is that the competitive group has fewer shares and the creator of the strategy enhances their own relative rank positions.

When I owned 9 stations in a market, I knew that one of them would always be in play to counter a move or format variation of a competitor. It did not matter if each station individually made money as I had taken the example from business textbooks of supermarkets where some products were loss leaders to bring traffic that would buy profitable things.

Listeners will have an array of stations they use; the PPM shows us that the average person uses 6 stations in a 7 day period. And even in the past we knew that even the early push button car radios could be set for five or six stations. Anything that fragments a competitor will bring benefits to us.

Programming decisions are based as much or more on advertiser needs as on listener tastes.

In Knoxville it seems like the rimshots and also-rans just cancel each other out.

 

[TheBigA]

"60 in a Row" must be a lame joke. It doesn't mean commercial free or 60 songs in a row before a commercial. It's just puffery. If the content is bad, "commercial free" doesn't help...

But it's the same content as WYRK. So you can't say "the content is bad." It's good enough to make WYRK the ratings leader.

Once again, you need to look at other markets with two country stations. Seattle is once such market. Audacy has a Wolf there, and it gets a 2.6 in the 6+ numbers, good enough for #18 overall. Hubbard's KNUC is below them with a 2.2 at #21. But for some reason, KNUC is #5 in 18-34, with a syndicated morning show! They're beating Audacy's live & local show. So you never know what will attract an audience.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

That's hyperbole. Belichick has won multiple championships.

"Hyperbole?" Bah! The new PD from the Bee in Rochester has won numerous "championships." So has WYRK.