• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

6ABC signal problems

I live in Abington's Roslyn Valley area after scanning WPVI's off air signal is weak (pixalization) but all other stations come in great including channel 12.
I have a roof top amplified antenna aimed at Roxboro. Channel 39 (WLVT) and Channel 69 (WFMZ) from Allentown come in much better than WPVI.
 
w9wi said:
Neil Rattigan said:
WPVI could have applied for another frequency on the UHF band. Other stations assigned to VHF channels 2-6 did, and got 'em.
Click to expand...

The only channel I can find on which they'd stand any chance is 48.

- We'll presume channels 2-6 are out.

- Now, we'll calculate the distance between the WPVI tower and the service area of the nearest station on each other channel 7-51.

- Channels 9, 12, 14, 17, 22, 24, 25-29, 31, 32, 34, 35, 38, 39, 42, 43, 44, 46, and 50 are immediately eliminated. The distance is negative -- the WPVI tower is within the service area of stations on these channels.

- Except for the five channels listed below, each channel has at least one protected station within 150km. Channel 11 is the one on which the distance between the WPVI tower and the service area of the nearest protected station is greatest. That distance is 57km - about 35 miles. WPVI's coverage on channel 11 could not exceed 35 miles - and in fact would have to be quite a bit less, because the station would cause interference at a greater distance than that at which it would provide service.

- There are a handful of channels on which there is no station within 150km of the WPVI tower: 15, 16, 19, 20, and 48.

- Channels 14-20 are reserved for land-mobile. (WPHL gets to use 17 because they were there first...) WPVI can't move there.

Best I can tell the closest protected station on channel 48 is WRNN Kingston, New York, 194km away. The distance between their service area and the WPVI tower is a tad over 90km, 54 miles.

A quick unscientific estimate suggests WPVI could run up to 200kw on channel 48 at their existing 346m antenna height without their service area intersecting WRNN's.

HOWEVER..... stations cause interference at a greater distance than they provide service. It's quite likely WPVI would be limited to well under 100kw on channel 48 to avoid interference with WRNN.
Click to expand...
WGTW used to be on channel 48 analog. Anything on UHF would be an improvement over channel 6. VHF is great for analog, horrible for digital. Wait till the next thunderstorm or tropo or e-skip.
 
WRNN and a theoretical WPVI-48 do not overlap, whatever the coverage maps say. The bigger issue there is interference to WMDT, WPMT, and WWSI. I could see WPVI paying to move WWSI either to channel 10 at their current tower, or to channel 48 co-located in Philly, allowing WPVI to take a more powerful 49 signal.

- Trip
 
Apparently the FCC is going to issue and emergency power increase to VHF 6,today or tomorrow, and I guess WPVI will continue to tinker with it until they determine performance issues or get enough complaints during perhaps the next electrical storm when they will pester the FCC for another power boost. I think at some point having to be the only channel 6 to remain on channel 6 after digital changeover was in all probability a poor choice. Most digital converters in the greater Philadelphia area have a UHF only antenna hooked up to them. So they will remain mired with audience reception issues. If they would have flipped to a UHF assignment they'd be right in the groove with the rest of the know world.
 
Sam Lit said:
I think at some point having to be the only channel 6 to remain on channel 6 after digital changeover was in all probability a poor choice. Most digital converters in the greater Philadelphia area have a UHF only antenna hooked up to them. So they will remain mired with audience reception issues. If they would have flipped to a UHF assignment they'd be right in the groove with the rest of the know world.
Click to expand...
I would ask you to contact the station and suggest to then that they should go back to UHF ASAP. I won't be shocked if people starting complaining to the city about this signal problem with channel 6.
 
Julius May said:
Sam Lit said:
I think at some point having to be the only channel 6 to remain on channel 6 after digital changeover was in all probability a poor choice. Most digital converters in the greater Philadelphia area have a UHF only antenna hooked up to them. So they will remain mired with audience reception issues. If they would have flipped to a UHF assignment they'd be right in the groove with the rest of the know world.
Click to expand...
I would ask you to contact the station and suggest to then that they should go back to UHF ASAP. I won't be shocked if people starting complaining to the city about this signal problem with channel 6.
Click to expand...

I agree with Julius. It's time we call Phila City hall or start a petition drive. Ask for the Mayor or Frank Rizzo Jr. They are supposed to resolve our local problems. And while they're on the phone, we need to complain about the Cheese steak problem in this city. I weighed a Philadelphia Cheese Steak the other day and it was less than a quarter pound of meat. And they were pretty skimpy on the cheese wiz too. And my Cherry Champ Coke wasn't even sweet enough.
 
Does anyone think that WPVI should go back to a UHF digital channel?
 
w9wi said:
- In digital, we can't predict when maximum power will happen. So we average the transmitted power over a period of time. When we say a digital station is running 7.6 kilowatts, we mean the power averaged over a period of time is 7.6 kilowatts. The power is actually considerably higher much of the time. (and also considerably lower much of the time) The peak-to-average ratio for 8VSB is roughly 4:1, so this station (and yes, I do mean WPVI(grin!)) is running about 25 kilowatts peak power.

So you're comparing 25kw to 74kw, not 7.6kw to 74kw.
Click to expand...

You can predict WHAT peak is though, right?
 
Julius May said:
I would ask you to contact the station and suggest to then that they should go back to UHF ASAP. I won't be shocked if people starting complaining to the city about this signal problem with channel 6.
Click to expand...

Why would you need to ask, Julius? ::) People who have an issue can do just fine contacting them if they wish. Your silliness adds nothing helpful to the equation. Then again, you think they need a suggestion to do something that can't do....repeat after me...without permission. That's right, to do what you're suggesting, they'd have to follow the appropriate steps. In the meantime, though, they're obviously, as evidenced in your posts, aware of the situation, and--as appears to be the case with sister station WLS--options to address it are already in the works.
 
Does anyone think that WPVI should go back to a UHF digital channel and why did WPVI wind up on a VHF digital channel in the first place.
 
Julius May said:
Does anyone think that WPVI should go back to a UHF digital channel and why did WPVI wind up on a VHF digital channel in the first place.
Click to expand...

For the thousandth time, they didn't wind up on a VHF channel, they chose to be on it. They wanted to keep a sense of continuity but it bit them in the ass royally. I do agree they are much better off on a UHF channel but they can't go back to the one they were on cause it no longer exists for TV. Channels 53-69 were given to emergency and cellular companies. That being the case they don't have many choices on the UHF band due to overlaps in New York, Baltimore, Scranton and Harrisburg.

They have a ton of work to do to rectify this situation and you constantly ranting and raving, and bitching and moaning about the same thing isn't going to fix it any faster.
 
Julius, perhaps you would do well to learn even a wee bit about the topics you're constantly discussing.
 
tripinva said:
WRNN and a theoretical WPVI-48 do not overlap, whatever the coverage maps say. The bigger issue there is interference to WMDT, WPMT, and WWSI. I could see WPVI paying to move WWSI either to channel 10 at their current tower, or to channel 48 co-located in Philly, allowing WPVI to take a more powerful 49 signal.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that there is also a low-power analog Channel 48 still on the air in Hartford, though incidentally, they are having a slew of technical issues of their own.
 
Re: Inquirer article about 6ABC signal problems

Julius May said:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/busi...iewers_lose_6ABC__WHYY_in_digital_switch.html
Click to expand...

Part of the article sez to 'keep your receipts' and 'try different (antennas)'. Look here: I'm a geek with the DTV box, but I've done all I am gonna do to get Channel 6. I plug the same 18' communications antenna into my analog set and get the nightlight station with an OK picture with some noise. (Prior to that, I could barely get WHYY when analog on Channel 12. Minimal interference on their picture now.) As represented in the promotions leading up to the transition, this should be an issue-free clear digital picture. Clearly I should have a nice WPVI picture as this signal is higher up in the band. Plus I have two of the most sensitive boxes out there.

My guess is someone extrapolated without real-world consideration or testing. When did ABC test the digital transmitter at 82-88 mHz? Surely I would've heard about it through the geekvine. I would have participated in the feedback. In lieu of that opportunity, here's my feedback for the current situation: THe FCC ****s up again.
 
I think it was run overnight on Thursday nights/Friday mornings. ABC did not publicize them.

- Trip
 
I have a question or two for any engineers on this board.

I noticed that no stations in Philly, New York, Harrisburg/Lancaster/York, Baltimore, Washington, and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton use channel 12 on the high end of VHF or the following channels on UHF: 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 37, and 51. I know 52-69 were eliminated for broadcasting by the FCC, but are the aforementioned stations used for something else that precludes broadcast stations from using them? Maybe WPVI could use one of them.

I also noticed that several stations in Baltimore, Washington, and New York have their digital stations on the upper band of VHF (7-13.) Is that band less prone to reception issues than the lower band (2-6)?

Finally, I believe WRC in Washington broadcasts on 48. Wouldn't that be too close for WPVI anyway?

Thanks
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom