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770 WABC Number 1 ?

Whether it's 6+ or 12+ doesn't matter in 2025. Nobody is listening to broadcast radio at either of those ages now. Not even my own kids, who grew up in the most radio of radio households.
 
Weiserguy said:
First, Arbitron/Nielsen did a disservice when they changed 12+ to 6+ with the advent of the PPM. Most 12 year olds are starting to have some agency. They can go to the store by themselves. They have some allowance, or money from relatives like grandparents, or even some kind of part-time work that puts a little money in their pocket. They can buy a candy bar, or a tee shirt or pair of earrings. But you really can't say that about a kindergartner, or even a first or second grader. They're still dependent on mommy or daddy for just about everything. The 12 y/o can pick what station they want to listen to (though these days it's more likely to be Spotify), while the 6 y/o listens to whatever their parents tune to, radio or not.

But more importantly, not everything about radio involves selling listeners to advertisers. So many on RD focus on the ad sales aspect of the medium. But if you're an NPR-affiliate noncom, your ad sales are nonexistent. You "sell" on-air mentions to underwriters, be they corporations, local businesses or foundations. They want to reach ears, and they mostly don't care whether those ears are in the 25-54 demo or 55+. They care if you're open to learning something about them. For them, cume is a much more meaningful statistic. How many people in the listening area will hear your blurb? Not, how many 41 year old females with 2.3 kids and a soccer game in the afternoon.

There is analogous analysis for commercial stations, I think. If your station is getting 0.0% of the ears in your market (or even, trying to be fair, the area you put a clean signal into), you are not operating in the public interest, because you're not broadcasting programming that your market's interested in hearing. Again, not your share of 41 y/o fems (or any other demo metric), but your percentage of total ears in your listening area. If your cume is approaching zero, you're talking to yourself, and that's not in the PICN.

So while the very low end of 6+ (and to be fair, the very upper end too) may indeed be useless, the basic concept of measuring the totality of your listenership as a function of total available ears in your market is not. Which is where any station's cume, and share of total cume comes in.

So basically we're in agreement.
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That's my point. Thank you!!! šŸ˜
 
fybush said:
Whether it's 6+ or 12+ doesn't matter in 2025. Nobody is listening to broadcast radio at either of those ages now. Not even my own kids, who grew up in the most radio of radio households.
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Exactly!

If 6-65 or 12-65 or 25-65 or whatever aren't listening (and I believe they're not to any extent) then the 6+ ratings actually show how many 65+ listeners are listening.

That was my only point.

As I believe Weiserguy said, maybe that's a simpler metric than drilling down into a bunch of very narrow demos.
 
Weiserguy said:
There is analogous analysis for commercial stations, I think. If your station is getting 0.0% of the ears in your market (or even, trying to be fair, the area you put a clean signal into), you are not operating in the public interest, because you're not broadcasting programming that your market's interested in hearing. Again, not your share of 41 y/o fems (or any other demo metric), but your percentage of total ears in your listening area. If your cume is approaching zero, you're talking to yourself, and that's not in the PICN.

So while the very low end of 6+ (and to be fair, the very upper end too) may indeed be useless, the basic concept of measuring the totality of your listenership as a function of total available ears in your market is not. Which is where any station's cume, and share of total cume comes in.
Click to expand...

That arguments makes sense if a station wanted to know its overall cume ...

Except that a station is going to want to know what the cume is for their target demographic. That's going to automatically exclude those youngest PPM wearers. And it still easier for a Nielsen subscriber to see what that number they really want and need to see to have the demo breakouts.
 
wadio said:
If 6-65 or 12-65 or 25-65 or whatever aren't listening (and I believe they're not to any extent) then the 6+ ratings actually show how many 65+ listeners are listening.

That was my only point.
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That's a stretch which presumes that no station has any listening under age 65. That's the flaw in your calcualtion: You still need the demographic-specific numbers to see if that is the case, because you would have to subtract the under 65s from the 6+/12+ to get that number.

Presuming, of course, that any station cares about 65+.
 
K.M. Richards said:
That's a stretch which presumes that no station has any listening under age 65. That's the flaw in your calcualtion: You still need the demographic-specific numbers to see if that is the case, because you would have to subtract the under 65s from the 6+/12+ to get that number.

Presuming, of course, that any station cares about 65+.
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OK, but what I'm saying is that it's another way to evaluate the ad value of a station, especially for those of us without access to the coveted stats.

This forum seems to dismiss the 6+ ratings entirely which I think might be a mistake.
 
wadio said:
This forum seems to dismiss the 6+ ratings entirely which I think might be a mistake.
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They are dismissed entirely because they do not provide an accurate picture of who is listening to what. Look, I've never drawn a paycheck from a radio station (I've done contract work with websites in the past and assisted with one station's high school football coverage for several years) but even I figured it out from being on here, both in these boards and elsewhere, after a very long period of time.

And truth be told, I was once given an copy of an Arbitron book from someone in the industry (no one in here, and I never shared that with anyone until nowā€¦ it was nearly 15 years ago and I do not have the PDF). Reading that alone, along with all the breakdowns, showed me just how unimportant 6+ and 12+ are. It was incredibly instructive.
 
umfan said:
Do you feel that still applies to a station like WABC which, as you very articulately note in posts in this thread, relies less on agency buys and more on direct local ad placements from sources that may place more value on older demos?
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Stations like WABC don't sell based on ratings. They do direct selling to non-agency accounts and to local agencies that are more flexible. There are a number of advertisers and categories where the "25-54" rule does not necessarily apply and WABC can approach those advertisers with their reach into the older demos.

Again, almost all agency buys are somewhere within 18 and 54. There are nearly none that specify anything over 55. But stations with mostly older demos can try to sell to agencies that have accounts that appeal to older people; these are usually smaller local agencies where there is more direct contact with the client themselves. But there are not many of those situations and it takes lots of work to make those sales.
 
davideduardo said:
Stations like WABC don't sell based on ratings. They do direct selling to non-agency accounts and to local agencies that are more flexible. There are a number of advertisers and categories where the "25-54" rule does not necessarily apply and WABC can approach those advertisers with their reach into the older demos.

Again, almost all agency buys are somewhere within 18 and 54. There are nearly none that specify anything over 55. But stations with mostly older demos can try to sell to agencies that have accounts that appeal to older people; these are usually smaller local agencies where there is more direct contact with the client themselves. But there are not many of those situations and it takes lots of work to make those sales.
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Makes sense.

But I've read that some agencies are taking a second look at 55+. There must be creative ways to not surrender all that revenue to TV.

Advertising is more than just the target audience, it's also the message. If they're not in sync, then it's a complete waste of $.
 
wadio said:
But I've read that some agencies are taking a second look at 55+.
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Read where? I stay on top of industry news and haven't seen anything like that other than opinions.

We want facts, preferably with citations.
 
K.M. Richards said:
Read where? I stay on top of industry news and haven't seen anything like that other than opinions.

We want facts, preferably with citations.
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I'm lazy so I asked AI:

"Why advertisers should target the 55+ age group
The 55+ demographic presents a significant and growing opportunity for advertisers, often overlooked in favor of younger audiences.
Here's why this age group is a valuable target:
1. Substantial spending power and disposable income
Older consumers, particularly Baby Boomers, control a large share of wealth and disposable income compared to younger generations.
Globally, people over 60 are expected to account for $15 trillion in spending power by 2020. In the US, the 50+ age group controls 70% of disposable income and accounts for 51% of consumer spending.
They tend to spend more on things like travel, healthcare, and luxury goods.
2. Brand loyalty and willingness to spend for quality
Older generations tend to exhibit strong brand loyalty, especially when trust and credibility are established.
They are willing to pay more for products and services that meet their quality and functionality requirements.
While they may be less likely to switch brands, they are open to new products and services that offer clear benefits and improve their lives.
3. Active and engaged consumers
Contrary to stereotypes, many seniors are active, engaged, and embrace technology.
AARP's 2025 Tech Trends report found that 91% of older adults own a smartphone.
Many spend significant time online, including using social media platforms like Facebook and YouTube for communication, shopping, and entertainment.
They are also frequent consumers of traditional media like television and radio.
4. Specific needs and interests
The 55+ demographic prioritizes health, well-being, and maintaining independence.
They are interested in products and services related to these areas, such as health supplements, assistive technology, financial planning, and home improvement.
Many value experiences, including travel and leisure activities.
5. Potential for long-term customer relationships
Building trust and rapport with older consumers can foster enduring relationships and brand advocacy.
Understanding their preferences and tailoring marketing efforts to their needs can lead to continued engagement and repeat purchases.
In summary, the 55+ demographic represents a powerful consumer market with substantial buying power, brand loyalty, and a growing presence in the digital landscape. Advertisers who recognize the unique needs and interests of this age group and develop targeted strategies can unlock significant opportunities for growth and success."

AI relies on numerous sources.
 
wadio said:
AI relies on numerous sources.
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AI is repeating everything I have seen in opinion pieces advocating that agencies look to older demographics.

That's not even close to proof that the agencies actually are.

Everyone here who thinks AI is a verifiable source to cite, say "aye". (Listen to the quiet.)
 
wadio said:
I'm lazy so I asked AI:

AI relies on numerous sources.
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Keep in mind that radio stations don't care who listens. Advertisers do. So send your messages to them.

Then make sure they know which stations to use.

Radio stations would gladly play 50s/60s oldies or anything else as long as there was enough money from someplace to pay for it.
 
K.M. Richards said:
AI is repeating everything I have seen in opinion pieces advocating that agencies look to older demographics.

That's not even close to proof that the agencies actually are.

Everyone here who thinks AI is a verifiable source to cite, say "aye". (Listen to the quiet.)
Click to expand...
In this whole thread I've never said that all agencies ARE looking to older demos. I've said that some probably are and perhaps others SHOULD.

I've noticed that, with a few exceptions, the posters on this board are pretty much locked into their views and not willing to even consider other opinions. It's "No, No, No, you're wrong!" Not "I disagree."

The more often a single view is repeated, the more it becomes "the truth."
 
wadio said:
In this whole thread I've never said that all agencies ARE looking to older demos. I've said that some probably are and perhaps others SHOULD.
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WINS clearly appeals to older demos and clearly gets agency business. How else would they have billed $40 million last year?

WFAN also has an older demographic and gets agency business.
 


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