I agree on part-time sports talent in this market. Even the Fan with Ellinger and West. Their whole goal is to show how impressive they are with their sports knowledge. Entertaining and connecting with their audience seems unnecessary to them. Say what you want about the Stews but they get it. It is about engaging their audience so they feel part of the show. Not like those drones like Ellinger, West and Woolverton.
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You are correct about the Stews knowing how to work an audience. They are excellent at this, kind of like Jim Rome except his listeners have IQ's over room temperature.
I gave the morning show a couple segments this morning and all I can say is wOw, I didn't realize how much they would miss Bell. Turns out not only was Bell a pro, energetic, and hilarious; he brought out the best of Cellini. As things stand now we have Cellini in with two unfunny, lousy broadcasters who are doing nothing but dragging him down. Throw in the pressure to be the "funny guy" and you've got big trouble.
Today Brisket drove me crazier than normal. First segment I heard him reset (gave the time and the ID) at least nine times in one segment, including literally twice in ten seconds. Next segment he didn't reset ONCE. And of course he trailed off every other sentence with "and everything else" as usual and dropped his witless "things I LEARNED!", which might as well be fingernails on a chalkboard. I just have to wonder, do any of these people EVER listen to an air check of themselves? Does Brisket think it's OK to not finish a sentence and assume the listener knows what he's trying to say?
I just hope to god this latest shakeup in ATL radio somehow leads to a listenable morning show. We are a Top Ten market...how can this be asking too much??
I gave the morning show a couple segments this morning and all I can say is wOw, I didn't realize how much they would miss Bell. Turns out not only was Bell a pro, energetic, and hilarious; he brought out the best of Cellini. As things stand now we have Cellini in with two unfunny, lousy broadcasters who are doing nothing but dragging him down. Throw in the pressure to be the "funny guy" and you've got big trouble.
Today Brisket drove me crazier than normal. First segment I heard him reset (gave the time and the ID) at least nine times in one segment, including literally twice in ten seconds. Next segment he didn't reset ONCE. And of course he trailed off every other sentence with "and everything else" as usual and dropped his witless "things I LEARNED!", which might as well be fingernails on a chalkboard. I just have to wonder, do any of these people EVER listen to an air check of themselves? Does Brisket think it's OK to not finish a sentence and assume the listener knows what he's trying to say?
I just hope to god this latest shakeup in ATL radio somehow leads to a listenable morning show. We are a Top Ten market...how can this be asking too much??
Drones????? I always thought that the goal on sports talk radio was to give strong opinions, back those opinions up with facts and cause the listener to actually think. That is what some of us try to do. I think sometimes people such as your self are content with being told what to think. I do not rely on callers when I am on the air but I believe that caller reaction is a good way to measure whether you are connecting with the audience. I approach every show with the idea that I am hanging out with some buddies talking sports. You are obviously someone I would not be hanging out with if you do not feel connected. Most people I have met think that my strength is my ability to connect.
Jerry
Jerry
A
atlsportsnut
Guest
Jerry, good to have you on the board. Working for over 17 years in radio in management and program directing I would not want to trade places with you for a second in ANY format!
What I think frustrates a lot of us in the listening audience (I am probably a 60/40 790 guy when it comes to my sports radio consumption) is that the weekend guys don't seem to get what the format is all about.
At your station you have two guys in afternoon drive who are hosting one of the most successful sports radio shows in the country in a local market. We discussed in another thread that I don't think what either of them do is that hard to copy. They have plenty of sports knowledge, hard opinions (mostly from Kincade) and have radio formatics down pat. I've heard them from day one and they get better each year and that is reflected in their market dominance and paychecks. One thing they don't do is rely on callers to supply their content. If I was to use Arbitron as the disuccsion point, Buck and Kincade as an average have about 200,000+ listeners per week. They also take far less calls than anyone else in this market. Other shows may take a page out of their book. If you take 50 calls in a 3 hour show is that a good guage of what your audience truly thinks of the show? No way.
The Stews have one of the most creative and interesting shows in the country. I don't think it is that good but they take chances and are having fun. That has allowed them to go from part timers to full timers at 790.
One thing you weekend guys tend to do is come on the air on Sundays and talk about the things that went on earlier in the week! Why do you do that? Do B&K talk about what went on 6 or 7 days earlier on their show? No, they talk about what is happening today! It seems as if the part timers on 790 and 680 both think we wait around dying to hear what they have to say on the issues of the week, instead of talking what is currently hot.
If this is truly jerry, I consider you the best of the part time breed in the market. The fact that Woolverton and Adams got a show is more for the fact that 790 is hemmoraging cash and losing stance in the market. They have lost the audience war and need to cut costs to support the finances. (That is an issue haunting all of us in radio management believe me)
Hanging around for a long time as a part timer does not mean that someoen is deserving of a full time shot. I think that it means you have not yet done what the people who are making the station money have done when given the chance.
When I listen to Home Team and Bob Neal fill in for the Stews I cringe. The show sounds nothing like it does when they are there. The same goes for you or Konkel or West when you do B&K.
The part timers need to take the stage when given it and show that they can do what the full timers do. Taking tons of calls with mindless blathering does nothing for me as a guy who has to decide who to put on air.
You have the talent, just blow up the approach. Be different and try something. It may help you if you were able to separate yourself from guys like Konkel and West to stand out more. They are not helping your cause.
What I think frustrates a lot of us in the listening audience (I am probably a 60/40 790 guy when it comes to my sports radio consumption) is that the weekend guys don't seem to get what the format is all about.
At your station you have two guys in afternoon drive who are hosting one of the most successful sports radio shows in the country in a local market. We discussed in another thread that I don't think what either of them do is that hard to copy. They have plenty of sports knowledge, hard opinions (mostly from Kincade) and have radio formatics down pat. I've heard them from day one and they get better each year and that is reflected in their market dominance and paychecks. One thing they don't do is rely on callers to supply their content. If I was to use Arbitron as the disuccsion point, Buck and Kincade as an average have about 200,000+ listeners per week. They also take far less calls than anyone else in this market. Other shows may take a page out of their book. If you take 50 calls in a 3 hour show is that a good guage of what your audience truly thinks of the show? No way.
The Stews have one of the most creative and interesting shows in the country. I don't think it is that good but they take chances and are having fun. That has allowed them to go from part timers to full timers at 790.
One thing you weekend guys tend to do is come on the air on Sundays and talk about the things that went on earlier in the week! Why do you do that? Do B&K talk about what went on 6 or 7 days earlier on their show? No, they talk about what is happening today! It seems as if the part timers on 790 and 680 both think we wait around dying to hear what they have to say on the issues of the week, instead of talking what is currently hot.
If this is truly jerry, I consider you the best of the part time breed in the market. The fact that Woolverton and Adams got a show is more for the fact that 790 is hemmoraging cash and losing stance in the market. They have lost the audience war and need to cut costs to support the finances. (That is an issue haunting all of us in radio management believe me)
Hanging around for a long time as a part timer does not mean that someoen is deserving of a full time shot. I think that it means you have not yet done what the people who are making the station money have done when given the chance.
When I listen to Home Team and Bob Neal fill in for the Stews I cringe. The show sounds nothing like it does when they are there. The same goes for you or Konkel or West when you do B&K.
The part timers need to take the stage when given it and show that they can do what the full timers do. Taking tons of calls with mindless blathering does nothing for me as a guy who has to decide who to put on air.
You have the talent, just blow up the approach. Be different and try something. It may help you if you were able to separate yourself from guys like Konkel and West to stand out more. They are not helping your cause.
It really it is Jerry. Let me clarify some things. First of all, I never let the callers dictate where I go with a show. I was merely using them to guage my ability to connect (in response to an earlier post). I run my shows in a way that I would appreciate if I was a listener. I never approach issues or topics in the same vanilla way that most show hosts do. I believe that I generally have a new and fresh angle to any story out there. As a matter of fact, I have been told many times that that is one of my strengths. How can you rely on only Saturaday night stories for a Sunday show? The idea of a weekend show is to review issues and stories from the week before with the understanding that different hosts have different views. When doing a college football show, how can you avoid talking about the National Champioship? We have a specific mandate for each weekend show, TALK FOOTBALL. Our weekend show consistantly wins in the ratings. When I did a daily night time show a few years ago, we consistantly beat the STEWS. You can say that doing part time for years does not necessarily equate to deserving a full time gig but we part timers must be doing something right if we are still around. There is something to be said for catching a daily groove when given the chance. Sometimes you need a daily outlet to find your voice. It is a little difficult and choppy when it is once or twice a week. I don't know if Wolverton and Adams will work. I don't know what kind of success I would enjoy if I was on daily( though I believe it would do very well). I just think there is something to be said for earning it as opposed to it being handed to you. I appreciate the advice and constructive criticism from someone with such vast experience and I will take it to heart.
Jerry
Jerry
I'd just like to point out that Brandon Leak ruins any chance the Afternoon Saloon has of being a good show.
Three is definitely a crowd in this case. Updates only please.
Three is definitely a crowd in this case. Updates only please.
A
atlsportsnut
Guest
After the across the board ass beating that 790 took from 680 in the Fall book, after the one they took from 680 in the Spring book, these new chagnes better work.
680 has now posted the top 3 ratings books ever for sports radio in Atlanta in the past 5 books.
I think the crown for sports radio has clearly been taken by The Fan.
I hope this is the kick in the butt that 790 needs to revamp the station for real by invigorating it with some REAL new talent.
Brandon and Woolvy would not cut it in Macon.
680 has now posted the top 3 ratings books ever for sports radio in Atlanta in the past 5 books.
I think the crown for sports radio has clearly been taken by The Fan.
I hope this is the kick in the butt that 790 needs to revamp the station for real by invigorating it with some REAL new talent.
Brandon and Woolvy would not cut it in Macon.
Even though 790 gets their asses handed to them in the ratings, they still apparently make money because they're great salesmen. Lucky for them there appears to be room for two sports stations in this town because they can't program to save their lives.
A
atlsportsnut
Guest
Amen.
The 790 sales force should put out DVD's on how to sell without audience numbers to back up the station.
They are as good a unit as anyone in town.
Reminds me of the old mattress ads though, "an educated consumer is our best customer".
I don't know what companies are continuing to pile money on 790 when the product does not deliver compared to the only station that they must beat!
The 790 sales force should put out DVD's on how to sell without audience numbers to back up the station.
They are as good a unit as anyone in town.
Reminds me of the old mattress ads though, "an educated consumer is our best customer".
I don't know what companies are continuing to pile money on 790 when the product does not deliver compared to the only station that they must beat!
And that is the conundrum that 790 has faced for quite some time. They have programming that delivers sales dollars and still does. Theyknow they have an increasing numbers problem audience wise, but how much do you disrupt what is making you money?
Steak Shapiro brings in ad dollars. We can debate his on air merits ad nauseum, but they keep selling him and clients keep buying him. So he is sure to be a part of whatever programming mix they put together. Same for Dimino and Bell. They can reshuffle them and put them in different places, but there has to be a reluctance to make radical changes when the dollars continue to roll in.
Sure the Stews turn off a large portion of the audience, and that turnoff has helped propel B&K to ratings success, but then again the Stews get to tap into urban advertising budgets that none of the other sports shows in town are open too. So the Stews stay, although now in a different time period.
These new changes should improve the audience numbers a bit and maybe take back a couple of points in the afternoon, but it is unlikely to reverse the current audience trend that makes 680 the audience leader. As long as 790 remains the unquestioned revenue king, I can't see them making any real significant changes.
Steak Shapiro brings in ad dollars. We can debate his on air merits ad nauseum, but they keep selling him and clients keep buying him. So he is sure to be a part of whatever programming mix they put together. Same for Dimino and Bell. They can reshuffle them and put them in different places, but there has to be a reluctance to make radical changes when the dollars continue to roll in.
Sure the Stews turn off a large portion of the audience, and that turnoff has helped propel B&K to ratings success, but then again the Stews get to tap into urban advertising budgets that none of the other sports shows in town are open too. So the Stews stay, although now in a different time period.
These new changes should improve the audience numbers a bit and maybe take back a couple of points in the afternoon, but it is unlikely to reverse the current audience trend that makes 680 the audience leader. As long as 790 remains the unquestioned revenue king, I can't see them making any real significant changes.
H
hotdog1980
Guest
Who says 790 is making money hand over fist? Anyone have any evidence of this? Anyone know the difference in ad rates between 790 and 680?
A
ATLSports
Guest
680 needs to replace the rude awakening with Mike and Mike.
ATLSports said:680 needs to replace the rude awakening with Mike and Mike.
According to Rodney Ho's blog today they rank 6th among men 25-54. No way are they going to be replaced. They must be ecstatic beyond their wildest dreams. This is a much better show since Perry joiined and Dukes left.
atlsportsnut said:After the across the board ass beating that 790 took from 680 in the Fall book, after the one they took from 680 in the Spring book, these new chagnes better work.
680 has now posted the top 3 ratings books ever for sports radio in Atlanta in the past 5 books.
I think the crown for sports radio has clearly been taken by The Fan.
Except that the Stews have (according to Rodney's blog) beaten Buck & Kincade in the last two books, so let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.
A
atlsportsnut
Guest
Yes the Stews edged out B&K in the last two ratings periods, but their audience makeup looks to be over 75% African American which is subject to the magical weighting by Arbitron.
B&K have the larger audience by far and have definitely won the head to head battle since the two were paired against each other.
Now neither one of them can touch Sean in the ratinsg which makes some of us happy.
B&K have the larger audience by far and have definitely won the head to head battle since the two were paired against each other.
Now neither one of them can touch Sean in the ratinsg which makes some of us happy.
The truth is, B&K have the Stews to thank for their so-called ratings success. Prior to the Stews taking the afternoon slot, 680 and 790 pretty much split the traditional sports talk afternoon audience. Nobody won any great victories, both stations were within a tenth of each other with both usually finding a demo where they could declare a win.
The 680 numbers were often bolstered by huge wins in the final hour of drive 6:00 to 7:00 P when 790's signal pretty much neutered the audience. From 3:00 PM to 6:00 PM 790 had the upper hand. Even so, the numbers were pretty evenly matched and 790 decided that wasn't good enough. So the Bottom Line was broken up and Chuck Oliver was added to Dimino to add some southern appeal to the show and the initial numbers were good and a win for 790. But Oliver and Dimino could not coexist and the show died.
Still looking for the elusive home run, 790 went to the Stews and they brought a whole new audience to afternoon drive. But they also chased the entire traditional 790 audience over to the 680 side. It is the Stews that really made winners out of Buck and Kincaid. It will be interesting to see that with a new non-urban approach in the afternoon if 790 can get some of it back.
The 680 numbers were often bolstered by huge wins in the final hour of drive 6:00 to 7:00 P when 790's signal pretty much neutered the audience. From 3:00 PM to 6:00 PM 790 had the upper hand. Even so, the numbers were pretty evenly matched and 790 decided that wasn't good enough. So the Bottom Line was broken up and Chuck Oliver was added to Dimino to add some southern appeal to the show and the initial numbers were good and a win for 790. But Oliver and Dimino could not coexist and the show died.
Still looking for the elusive home run, 790 went to the Stews and they brought a whole new audience to afternoon drive. But they also chased the entire traditional 790 audience over to the 680 side. It is the Stews that really made winners out of Buck and Kincaid. It will be interesting to see that with a new non-urban approach in the afternoon if 790 can get some of it back.
Assuming the current rumor of the Rgular Guys returning is true, I also wonder what the impact will be on both morning shpows. especially 680 the Fan's where many of them probably had a good connection with Rude from his 96 Rock days. Check the ratings for Rude, I think you will see a generous increase in audience since their previous demise as men searched for male-orieented morning shows.
Good point Mr. Tibbs. The return of the Regular Guys could pull back from some of Rude's gains. Mayhem's number have already slipped so badly, they have probably bottomed out and have nowhere to go, but up.
To add on to my previous post. My point really is that the longevity of B&K is more a design of 680 not making changes for many years, not some kind of monster success. 790 had similar numbers throughout, but to their credit, felt those numbers were not good enough and kept making changes in hope of attracting a larger audiencce. It didn't always work, but they took their swings.
The great irony is that it took 790 turning to the Stews to create that success for B&K by giving them the whole white guy sports audience to themselves. B&K have been serving up the same stuff for years, it's not like the show suddenly got better.
To add on to my previous post. My point really is that the longevity of B&K is more a design of 680 not making changes for many years, not some kind of monster success. 790 had similar numbers throughout, but to their credit, felt those numbers were not good enough and kept making changes in hope of attracting a larger audiencce. It didn't always work, but they took their swings.
The great irony is that it took 790 turning to the Stews to create that success for B&K by giving them the whole white guy sports audience to themselves. B&K have been serving up the same stuff for years, it's not like the show suddenly got better.
T
troone
Guest
Who says 790 is making money hand over fist? Anyone have any evidence of this? Anyone know the difference in ad rates between 790 and 680?
I'd be interested in this too. Any weasels out there?
A
atlsportsnut
Guest
Zoneguy, just taking a look back at the numbers from those periods you are really not being too truthful. B&K actually split the ratings periods vs. the various versions of the Big Show and had a larger audience. B&K beat out Bottom Line in ratings and audience size for the majority of the books they competed. The Stews beat B&K four times, never came close to them in audience size and lost seven books.
(Nothing comes close to Sean by the way if I have not mentioned that one in the past)
We have tracked that ratings analysis on the AM dial since 680 came back to monitor competitive traffic.
The interesting thing is how when Kimmer left the majority of his audience that changed stations seemed to have migrated to B&K and not Sean. I have no clue why that is.
In fact, in audience size B&K have truly been a dominant show by sports radio standards. They have at times struggled with TSL, but their audience has grown significantly over the past 3 years. It may mean that their listenership has shorter commutes or busier lives and listens less. The Stews certainly benefitted from a smaller but very loyal listening base.
What surprises me is the lack of juice Dave Ramsey has provided GST.
If you look at the numbers, he has done poorly and Sean, B&K and the Stews all benefit.
(Nothing comes close to Sean by the way if I have not mentioned that one in the past)
We have tracked that ratings analysis on the AM dial since 680 came back to monitor competitive traffic.
The interesting thing is how when Kimmer left the majority of his audience that changed stations seemed to have migrated to B&K and not Sean. I have no clue why that is.
In fact, in audience size B&K have truly been a dominant show by sports radio standards. They have at times struggled with TSL, but their audience has grown significantly over the past 3 years. It may mean that their listenership has shorter commutes or busier lives and listens less. The Stews certainly benefitted from a smaller but very loyal listening base.
What surprises me is the lack of juice Dave Ramsey has provided GST.
If you look at the numbers, he has done poorly and Sean, B&K and the Stews all benefit.
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