94.9 is possible - with a catch.

[Bill_W]

Pab hit it home. 1060 in Center City, Montco and Camden Counties is hells bells strong. The problems are in the kidney shape pattern of KYW. http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KYW&service=AM&status=L&hours=U

Not so good on Kings Highway in Cherry Hill. For whatever reason, the PSE&G powerlines make KYW on 1060AM unlistenable. I don't have HD in my car to listen on WIP-FM HD-2 but, my i-phone interfaces directly into my radio and I can now stream KYW via the CBS Philly app and it sounds great.
KYW-FM on 106.9 would have been great.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

Pab hit it home. 1060 in Center City, Montco and Camden Counties is hells bells strong. The problems are in the kidney shape pattern of KYW. http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KYW&service=AM&status=L&hours=U

Not so good on Kings Highway in Cherry Hill. For whatever reason, the PSE&G powerlines make KYW on 1060AM unlistenable. I don't have HD in my car to listen on WIP-FM HD-2 but, my i-phone interfaces directly into my radio and I can now stream KYW via the CBS Philly app and it sounds great.
KYW-FM on 106.9 would have been great.

Some parts of 202 it's pretty darn unlistenable too.

 

[Play Freebird]

KYW's pattern shape is a 2-tower figure-8 with 10 augmentations. Here's a link to it:

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine...SearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1455707&sHours=U

The signal does have problems in Bucks County and Trenton due to the deep null toward NYC. It may also need to protect the ghost of a 1060 in Quebec. On the other side, toward Wilmington, the null protects WLNO New Orleans and XEEP in Mexico City.

To put this in perspective, KYW's "effective radiated power" at a bearing of 70 degrees is roughly the same as a 1 kW nondirectional station.

For example, WFYL 1180 in King of Prussia uses a short Valcom whip antenna that's rated at 286 mV/m/km. KYW, on the 70 degree bearing (towards Willow Grove, Hatboro, Langhorne, Newtown and Yardley) performs only slightly better with 297 mV/m/km, even with the taller towers factored in.

Across the span from 25 to 80 degrees (towards most of the remainder of Bucks County) KYW's augmented pattern doesn't exceed 458 mV/m/km. This is less than the nondirectional daytime field of WPWA in Chester, running 2.5 kW. Of course, 1060 would cover better than 1590 for a given power level, but it's still quite a dent in the pattern.

 

[KML0224]

I don't understand all of the jargon, but KYW-AM 1060 has a null towards the northeast because of WEPN-AM 1050 of New York City, correct? How does KYW's daytime signal do in Trenton, NJ, being that it's in that direction?

 

[deepstblu]

I don't understand all of the jargon, but KYW-AM 1060 has a null towards the northeast because of WEPN-AM 1050 of New York City, correct? How does KYW's daytime signal do in Trenton, NJ, being that it's in that direction?

Not great--it degrades pretty quickly around the Burlington/Mercer county line. It's listenable on my car radio but not on most of my house radios in Hamilton. WURD probably puts a better daytime signal into Trenton than KYW does--only 1000 watts, but it's basically directed toward the northeast.

 

[radio-free ventnor]

I'm new to radio, looking to getting into the field, so i may be wrong, but wkth the removal of WAYV, a 94.9 Class B can be placed in Media's tower hill, WRNB is 60+ miles from WZZO and WDSD, with the removal or downgrade of WAYV, a 94.9 could be operational (at least as Class A).

As a former AC resident I have to say, the day Equity sells WAYV is the day Gary Fisher sells Equity and retires. As someone else said, it's 100% their crown jewel.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

I'm new to radio, looking to getting into the field, so i may be wrong, but wkth the removal of WAYV, a 94.9 Class B can be placed in Media's tower hill, WRNB is 60+ miles from WZZO and WDSD, with the removal or downgrade of WAYV, a 94.9 could be operational (at least as Class A).

As a former AC resident I have to say, the day Equity sells WAYV is the day Gary Fisher sells Equity and retires. As someone else said, it's 100% their crown jewel.

Thanks for the input, but it's long over.

94.9 will not be a philly frequency untill the 95.1 allocation (Atlantic City) is gone, which may be long after our time if even.

You can put a 94.9 in Pennsuaken if that is done, and it could operate. Meanwhile, with WAYV being that crown jewel, it won't happen. Maybe if someone purchases it in a few decades and removes the allocation to add a 94.9 Philadelphia.

And that's even stretching it. I gave up the hope anyhow.

 

[fybush]

I think we've pretty much flayed the skin off this horse by now...but: you can't "remove" an FM allocation once it's activated. Under certain circumstances, you can relocate an FM allocation - but current FCC policy would prohibit any attempt to relocate 95.1 from Atlantic City to any community from which it would serve all or most of the Philadelphia urbanized area.

(And of course it's not just WAYV that would be in the way of such a move, anyway...yada yada yada...)

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

I think we've pretty much flayed the skin off this horse by now...but: you can't "remove" an FM allocation once it's activated. Under certain circumstances, you can relocate an FM allocation - but current FCC policy would prohibit any attempt to relocate 95.1 from Atlantic City to any community from which it would serve all or most of the Philadelphia urbanized area.

(And of course it's not just WAYV that would be in the way of such a move, anyway...yada yada yada...)

95.1 will never happen because of WZZO -

94.9 in an area such as Pennsauken is both more then 80 KM from 95.1 ZZO and 94.7 DSD - giving it room.

If that happens, it'll be multiple very unique and rare instances in a few decades if Equity is sold. I feel like you have more of a chance of climbing The Comcast Tower in ten minutes flat near nothing.

I agree... We've flayed the skin off this horse, and the whole conversation is just becoming a repeated thing as to the spacing issues.

 

[nd2023]

The HD translator loophole is probably the only way to get a new station on the air. I wonder if the new owner of 94.5 PST could get a translator on 94.9 in Philly, which would immediately make it much more valuable.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

The HD translator loophole is probably the only way to get a new station on the air. I wonder if the new owner of 94.5 PST could get a translator on 94.9 in Philly, which would immediately make it much more valuable.

The possibility of getting the full Class A or B is there, just will take decades to happen - out of our lifetime more then likely.

And a translator? 94.9 in Folsom may be too close... But PST sure could use that translator to boost it's value, the issue with that is... Nassua is flat out broke.

 

[fybush]

Two problems with a translator: first, the FCC's not granting new translators right now, and the likelihood of a filing window for new translators any time soon is close to nil. Even if 94.9 is technically possible for a Philly translator, that means it's also technically possible for an LPFM, and the LPFM would get priority. (The Folsom signal is something else entirely - it's a grandfathered class D license, and can't be converted into a commercial translator.)

And second, even if Nassau could somehow get a translator into center city Philadelphia, it still can't translate WPST there, because a translator can't extend the signal of a commonly-owned station.

 

[observer2]

Scott, I admire your efforts to introduce informed logic to this thread. There was a thread on the Delaware board that was originally about a former downstate station (WSUX) that morphed into yet another strange conversation as to why 96.1 could be restored to Wilmington. This is akin to playing chess with mythical allocations instead of pawns, rooks, and kings.

 

[fybush]

Yeah...I saw that thread and have kept my distance. The FM landscape changed so dramatically after the rules changed in 1964 that it's just impossible to look at signals that died before that and think there's any hope of restoring them.

 

[DG02816]

A tip of the cap to Scott, who puts this in proper perspective. No need to try and stuff in another FM music station when the dial is full here, and the Table of Allocations won't permit it. And kill a station in another market so Philly gets that frequency? Into the corner with the dunce cap!

 

[nd2023]

Two problems with a translator: first, the FCC's not granting new translators right now, and the likelihood of a filing window for new translators any time soon is close to nil. Even if 94.9 is technically possible for a Philly translator, that means it's also technically possible for an LPFM, and the LPFM would get priority. (The Folsom signal is something else entirely - it's a grandfathered class D license, and can't be converted into a commercial translator.)

And second, even if Nassau could somehow get a translator into center city Philadelphia, it still can't translate WPST there, because a translator can't extend the signal of a commonly-owned station.

Doesn't PST have a 60dbu signal in Philly?

 

[fybush]

Parts of Philly, actually...V-soft.com's calculator shows 66.3 dBu over zip 19103 in Center City. But Nassau would still need a translator, which it doesn't have.

 

[nd2023]

Parts of Philly, actually...V-soft.com's calculator shows 66.3 dBu over zip 19103 in Center City. But Nassau would still need a translator, which it doesn't have.

But a translator within the 60dbu of the parent station can be owned by the parent, right?

 

[fybush]

Yes, as long as the translator's 60 is contained entirely within the parent station's 60.