98.7 News Talk

[jmtillery]

FM talk seems to work if you have the three big names (Rush, Hannity, Beck) or if you have heritage (WDBO). A start up non-CC FM talker in this market would have neither, and the two other owners are not likely to pump any salary money into it. Contrary to what some syndicators would have you believe, an FM talker with a lineup of third-tier syndication and no local heritage won't become a powerhouse. Check out "The Truth" in Denver for one such example.

Although it would be a great coup to have Rush, Hannity and Beck, you don't necessarily need them to succeed and become a powerhouse. What you DO need is a solid morning local/live news oriented talk program for starters. You also need local news throughout the day, complete with local traffic - 24/7. Additionally PM drive should be solid local/live along with other select local/live dayparts. It's an expensive undertaking, but, as I have said all along, if implemenetd correctly, you will have a HUGE winner.

 

[Parttimer]

Show me a top 100 market where that has worked.

 

[Studio20]

Names, Ladies and Gentlemen...names..for both an FM News and Sports station run by CBS. You'd need to steal, import, and bottom line pay people to do this. You're not considering using the 1010 staff, are you?


(BTW, I usually post this same line everytime someone suggests CBS flippnig sports to FM and bringing on news. No real names actually appeared after the posts, but it's fun to watch the wheels spin..)

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Use a feed from WINS 1010 and put in on 1010 and 98.7. Get some calls that sound like 'WINS" and have local updates.

 

[NewsStud]

Use a feed from WINS 1010 and put in on 1010 and 98.7. Get some calls that sound like 'WINS" and have local updates.

So, you wanna hear a constant newswheel of New York City-area news? How that would do for numbers? Ya think "Traffic & Transit On The Ones" featuring the delays on 1/9 train through midtown is really gonna keep the Bayfolk glued to their radios?

It's a bit different than running a feed of WFAN/New York on an HD-2 or HD-3 channel.

 

[billalm]

As long as WFLA AM or FM is around... it simply won't work here. Say what you want about FLA... but everyone that's lived here any length of time knows that they're the heritage "news" station. Just ask Genesis.

Partimer... spot on once again.

And to MsMusicRadio.... there's already a "winz" here. It's called AM1250. Come on... I'm not sure where you actually call home but you obviously don't have a clue when it comes to Tampa Bay radio. I'm sorry to attack and the moderators can kick me outside for all I care... But it needed to be said.

 

[jmtillery]

Okay, so news-talk on ANY FM station located anywhere in the Tampa Bay area will never, ever, under any circumstances work and will never, ever, under any circumstances be a viable, successful operation because WFLA is "impossible" to de-throne? And All I have to do is ask WWBA, another AM station, why this principle is the ultimate axiom, and management there will explain to me why innovating by bringing a first FM (not another AM) news-talk station is destined to failure?

I guess, according to that logic that explains why WFLZ "failed" miserably at de-throning number one CHR WRBQ in 1989. Funny thing is it was WRBQ (not WFLZ) that immediately flipped from CHR to country due to WRBQ ratings loss while WFLZ became the new number one CHR in the market - and that's an FM competing directly against another FM, not an FM competing directly against another AM (as would be the case with an FM News-Talker competing against WFLA). Very few thought in 1989 that WRBQ could be touched, because it was THE heritage station with a large, loyal following, but WFLZ proved otherwise.

 

[jmtillery]

Show me a top 100 market where that has worked.

WSKY-FM News-Talk 97.3 FM Gainesville - Ocala, Arbitorn market ranked 81, A Top 100 Market. WSKY is ranked number two overall among 40+ stations in the MSA and TSA and is extremely successful in both ratings and revenue.

 

[CHRles]

As far as successful FM News/Talk stations that don't carry Rush, Hannity, and Beck, there's Nashville's Supertalk 99.7

http://www.997wtn.com/

 

[smedge2006]

WSKY-FM News-Talk 97.3 FM Gainesville - Ocala, Arbitorn market ranked 81, A Top 100 Market. WSKY is ranked number two overall among 40+ stations in the MSA and TSA and is extremely successful in both ratings and revenue.

But WSKY's success was made possible by the dominant AM, WRUF, being owned by a university and subject to political whims. They were clearly squeamish about picking up Limbaugh or any shows of that sort. The only syndicated talk shows other than sports that they have carried have been non-political, like Dr. Joy Browne. WRUF left it on the table for SKY to pick up.

Okay, so news-talk on ANY FM station located anywhere in the Tampa Bay area will never, ever, under any circumstances work and will never, ever, under any circumstances be a viable, successful operation because WFLA is "impossible" to de-throne? And All I have to do is ask WWBA, another AM station, why this principle is the ultimate axiom, and management there will explain to me why innovating by bringing a first FM (not another AM) news-talk station is destined to failure?I guess, according to that logic that explains why WFLZ "failed" miserably at de-throning number one CHR WRBQ in 1989.

WWBA is playing with the same lineup of shows that would be available to a startup FM. And startup FM's with those shows do poorly. WWTN in Nashville has local content -- not likely in this scenario.

In today's de-staffed universe of radio, I doubt the Power Pig could happen again, either.

 

[John Waywoods]

The last thing we need is another blowhard radio station, AM 820s complete and utter failure is evidence of that.

To those that keep saying that FLA should move their programming are revenue clueless. You take a great revenue stream on AM and put it on FM to what? Lose 90% of the value of the AM? Sell it for pennies on the dollar? That would be foolish.

Personally, I would keep 98.7 as it is. It now targets to where its audience is. They should do fine as there are enough sophisticated and wealthy listeners in the area to support it.

On the other hand, I would like to see 820 drop the teabagger radio format and go all news. See CBS 880 AM in New York. Else, go Classic Country.

 

[Parttimer]

Okay, so news-talk on ANY FM station located anywhere in the Tampa Bay area will never, ever, under any circumstances work and will never, ever, under any circumstances be a viable, successful operation because WFLA is "impossible" to de-throne? And All I have to do is ask WWBA, another AM station, why this principle is the ultimate axiom, and management there will explain to me why innovating by bringing a first FM (not another AM) news-talk station is destined to failure?

It's pretty well proven that to make news/talk work you need most or all of the national conservative shows, or a heritage as the market news leader. FLA has both of those.

The conceptual "right people" are a fine argument, but in this market Jack and Tedd still work for FLA and Bob Lassiter has passed on.

I didn't leave enough of your quote about FLZ and Q105 intact, but comparing music formats to this is apples and oranges.

And suggesting as you did that 102.5 might be a good fit for this based on signal is an even worse idea, as this station is one of the few that has made FM-style hot talk work in both drive times without Howard Stern. Bubba mornings and Cowhead afternoons are pulling down good billing and younger demos than news talk would.

So on paper, yes, there's a formula, but the specific local ingredients you's need to make it work are probably not available.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

As long as WFLA AM or FM is around... it simply won't work here. Say what you want about FLA... but everyone that's lived here any length of time knows that they're the heritage "news" station. Just ask Genesis.

Partimer... spot on once again.

And to MsMusicRadio.... there's already a "winz" here. It's called AM1250. Come on... I'm not sure where you actually call home but you obviously don't have a clue when it comes to Tampa Bay radio. I'm sorry to attack and the moderators can kick me outside for all I care... But it needed to be said.

I forgot WHNZ and I think that using 1010 as a WINS feed was brought up here before. I admit that I am less than knowledgeable about AM except for 1150. I do call Tampa Bay home , but since I can time travel, I really prefer LA in 1965 and everything was "BOSS". No offense taken.

 

[badjef]

Talk on FM is moving north, from 92.5 in Ft. Myers to 107.5 in Englewood, to 106.9 in Sa-ra-so-ta!, you all are in the ball park.

But if I have a lot invested in an AM signal that carries its own button in just about every car, owned or rented, I'm not going to touch that combination.

There are only so many buttons available on the car radios for FM. The AM switch gives you the last AM station last tuned. Why give up a button for FM, when you can press the band button and pick up another "preset".

In short, as long as an AM/MW band option is available inside the car radio, WFLA will stay on AM. The HD-2 signal is only to help compensate for a deteriorated north coverage for that AM station, specifically Hernando and Pasco Counties.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[jmtillery]

WSKY-FM News-Talk 97.3 FM Gainesville - Ocala, Arbitorn market ranked 81, A Top 100 Market. WSKY is ranked number two overall among 40+ stations in the MSA and TSA and is extremely successful in both ratings and revenue.

But WSKY's success was made possible by the dominant AM, WRUF, being owned by a university and subject to political whims. They were clearly squeamish about picking up Limbaugh or any shows of that sort. The only syndicated talk shows other than sports that they have carried have been non-political, like Dr. Joy Browne. WRUF left it on the table for SKY to pick up.

Okay, so news-talk on ANY FM station located anywhere in the Tampa Bay area will never, ever, under any circumstances work and will never, ever, under any circumstances be a viable, successful operation because WFLA is "impossible" to de-throne? And All I have to do is ask WWBA, another AM station, why this principle is the ultimate axiom, and management there will explain to me why innovating by bringing a first FM (not another AM) news-talk station is destined to failure?I guess, according to that logic that explains why WFLZ "failed" miserably at de-throning number one CHR WRBQ in 1989.

WWBA is playing with the same lineup of shows that would be available to a startup FM. And startup FM's with those shows do poorly. WWTN in Nashville has local content -- not likely in this scenario.

In today's de-staffed universe of radio, I doubt the Power Pig could happen again, either.

The question was to show a successful FM News-Talker in a Top 100 market market which I did. We can debate all day as to why that success was made possible, but the fact remains the question was asked and it was answered correctly as asked.

Regarding a start-up using syndicated programs, please go back and completely read my previous posts. I had stated LOCAL programming including heavy local news coverage with a national mix would be the ticket.

 

[jmtillery]

The last thing we need is another blowhard radio station, AM 820s complete and utter failure is evidence of that.

To those that keep saying that FLA should move their programming are revenue clueless. You take a great revenue stream on AM and put it on FM to what? Lose 90% of the value of the AM? Sell it for pennies on the dollar? That would be foolish.

Personally, I would keep 98.7 as it is. It now targets to where its audience is. They should do fine as there are enough sophisticated and wealthy listeners in the area to support it.

On the other hand, I would like to see 820 drop the teabagger radio format and go all news. See CBS 880 AM in New York. Else, go Classic Country.

Please go back and read my complete previous posts before you suggest I am clueless. I DID NOT suggest that Clear Channel move its WFLA programming to FM although it's only a matter of time before that does, indeed, happen. My suggestion was to take the best non top 10 Cox FM signal (specifically WPOI as a first choice and WHPT as a back-up second choice) and place the number two market format (News-Talk) on that signal. This would have nothing to do with anything WFLA nor Clear Channel does other than to counter program in an effort to retain audience share.

WFLA is owned by Clear Channel while WPOI is owned by Cox Radio. My suggestion involved Cox making the move to FM Talk, not Clear Channel. Should this happen, and as a result (as you implied) it rendered WFLA's value to pennies on the dollar, it would be a result of a Cox move and not a Clear Channel move. Cox would be the winner while Clear Channel would be scratching their heads figuring out which CC Tampa FM to blow up and move WFLA programming to in an effort to effectively counter program the Cox station.

Again, if this is done CORRECTLY, and the key work here is CORRECTLY (I have already defined "correctly" in previous posts), whomever takes advantage of placing news-talk on FM, whether it be Cox, CBS, Clear Channel or a new entry, will be the big winner.

 

[jmtillery]

Okay, so news-talk on ANY FM station located anywhere in the Tampa Bay area will never, ever, under any circumstances work and will never, ever, under any circumstances be a viable, successful operation because WFLA is "impossible" to de-throne? And All I have to do is ask WWBA, another AM station, why this principle is the ultimate axiom, and management there will explain to me why innovating by bringing a first FM (not another AM) news-talk station is destined to failure?

It's pretty well proven that to make news/talk work you need most or all of the national conservative shows, or a heritage as the market news leader. FLA has both of those.

The conceptual "right people" are a fine argument, but in this market Jack and Tedd still work for FLA and Bob Lassiter has passed on.

I didn't leave enough of your quote about FLZ and Q105 intact, but comparing music formats to this is apples and oranges.

And suggesting as you did that 102.5 might be a good fit for this based on signal is an even worse idea, as this station is one of the few that has made FM-style hot talk work in both drive times without Howard Stern. Bubba mornings and Cowhead afternoons are pulling down good billing and younger demos than news talk would.

So on paper, yes, there's a formula, but the specific local ingredients you's need to make it work are probably not available.

I fail to see where my comparison is "apples to oranges". A radio format is a radio format competing for a radio listening audience whether it be news-talk, music, gypsy dance or continuous barking dogs. The fact remains there is no "untouchable" radio station no matter how heritage said station may be.

Additionally, I didn't make my initial comment to start a debate over what happens to WFLA, WWBA, Cox Radio, Clear Channel or anyone else. I made a casual comment relating to WPOI on another thread. In it I had suggested that WPOI flip to news-talk for reasons that I have already explained more than once, so I won't go into it again here.

And contrary to what apepars to be popular belief on this thread, you don't need Rush, Hannity and Beck to succeed as a news-talker. The fact that the programming is available on statc free, crystal clear FM will be half the battle in gaining listeners. Finding the right LOCAL programming and promoting it heavily, then selling it, is the other half. It ISN'T THAT difficult. It's time consumming and takes planning, but this ISN'T rocket science folks.

 

[jmtillery]

Okay, so news-talk on ANY FM station located anywhere in the Tampa Bay area will never, ever, under any circumstances work and will never, ever, under any circumstances be a viable, successful operation because WFLA is "impossible" to de-throne? And All I have to do is ask WWBA, another AM station, why this principle is the ultimate axiom, and management there will explain to me why innovating by bringing a first FM (not another AM) news-talk station is destined to failure?

It's pretty well proven that to make news/talk work you need most or all of the national conservative shows, or a heritage as the market news leader. FLA has both of those.

The conceptual "right people" are a fine argument, but in this market Jack and Tedd still work for FLA and Bob Lassiter has passed on.

I didn't leave enough of your quote about FLZ and Q105 intact, but comparing music formats to this is apples and oranges.

And suggesting as you did that 102.5 might be a good fit for this based on signal is an even worse idea, as this station is one of the few that has made FM-style hot talk work in both drive times without Howard Stern. Bubba mornings and Cowhead afternoons are pulling down good billing and younger demos than news talk would.

So on paper, yes, there's a formula, but the specific local ingredients you's need to make it work are probably not available.

Which Tampa Bay group are you associated with? Cox, Clear Channel or CBS? And what is your position with the company and/or stations? As for me, I am an independent consultant looking at the whole picture objectively.

 

[CHRles]

I'm not sure WPOI will be going anywhere anytime soon. They are Top 5 in cume 12+. I think it might remain a Retro station, albeit it may evolve into a 90s based one, similar to the new Gen X 100.5 Louisville. That Gen X format is also likely to pop up in Tulsa next week on 106.1 FM.
If Cox does choose to change formats at 101.5 I'd hope they'd consider moving the Modern Rock format of 97 X to the far superior 101.5 signal.

Despite its recent ratings surge, the FM station crrently most likely to flip to News Talk in 2010 is 98 Rock.

 

[Parttimer]

But WSKY's success was made possible by the dominant AM, WRUF, being owned by a university and subject to political whims. They were clearly squeamish about picking up Limbaugh or any shows of that sort. The only syndicated talk shows other than sports that they have carried have been non-political, like Dr. Joy Browne. WRUF left it on the table for SKY to pick up.

WSKY has Rush Limbaugh. The exercise here was to find an example of what you propose in Tampa, a startup that succeded against both the national conservative shows and the heritage news station in the market.

And I don't work in the Tampa market, never have (not in radio, that is).