98.7 News Talk

[jmtillery]

I'm not sure WPOI will be going anywhere anytime soon. They are Top 5 in cume 12+. I think it might remain a Retro station, albeit it may evolve into a 90s based one, similar to the new Gen X 100.5 Louisville. That Gen X format is also likely to pop up in Tulsa next week on 106.1 FM.
If Cox does choose to change formats at 101.5 I'd hope they'd consider moving the Modern Rock format of 97 X to the far superior 101.5 signal.

Despite its recent ratings surge, the FM station crrently most likely to flip to News Talk in 2010 is 98 Rock.

I am curious what ratings service are you using showing WPOI as a Top 5 Persons 12+ Cume? The Arbitron results I'm looking at right now shows WDUV at 9.9, WFLA at 7.2 (tied for second place with WRBQ) WQYK at 6.9, WBTP at 5.4, WFLZ at 5.3, WXGL at 5.1. WLLD at 4.7, WWRM at 4.2, and WFUS at 3.9. Those are your Top 10 Metro Persons 12+ Cume stations, and I didn't see WPOI as it is currently tied with WMTX for 12th place.

I agree that when Clear Channel makes the final decision to move WFLA to FM, it most likely will be WXTB. When this happens, again, most likely WFLA will simulcast on WXTB, at least in the beginning, as opposed to immediately flipping WFLA to another less profitable format. However, my suggesstion was for Cox (or possibly CBS) to make the move first, ahead of Clear Channel, effectively giving Cox the "jump" on the format on FM in the market.

Whenever I have programmed or managed a station, I never worry too much about the other stations. I concentrate my efforts on doing a better job than the other stations, filling a void no one else is filling. So, the fact that there is a heritage station in the market that has been there for decades, means very little to me.

Regarding Talk on FM in Tampa Bay, it isn't a question as to "if" it will happen, but rather "when" it will happen. It's coming to Tampa an also Miami sooner than you may realize.

 

[jmtillery]

But WSKY's success was made possible by the dominant AM, WRUF, being owned by a university and subject to political whims. They were clearly squeamish about picking up Limbaugh or any shows of that sort. The only syndicated talk shows other than sports that they have carried have been non-political, like Dr. Joy Browne. WRUF left it on the table for SKY to pick up.

WSKY has Rush Limbaugh. The exercise here was to find an example of what you propose in Tampa, a startup that succeded against both the national conservative shows and the heritage news station in the market.

And I don't work in the Tampa market, never have (not in radio, that is).

You did not specifically ask for a successful Top 100 non Rush News-Talk station. You only asked for a successful Top 100 FM News-Talk station, which I gave you. Additionally, it should be noted that WSKY DOES NOT have Hannity nor Beck. And, WSKY is still number 2 with persons 12+, only slighly behind number one WOGK, despite the fact that some have suggessted you need all three to be successful. WSKY only has one of the three.

With regards to specific programming such as what programs I would add, the dayparts where each respective program would be added and any other specific information regarding how I would program, market and sell a Tampa Bay FM News-Talk Station, that information remains with me although my consulting services are available, for a fee, to you or any station group interested in my services, in which case I will happily disclose any information you (client) desire. You may contact me via email at [email protected], or call me direct at (352) 425-3664 should you have an interest.

My next question is since you seem to be against any Tampa Bay FM becoming News-Talk, why would it matter about the "hows" and the "whys" of my "proposal"? I'm just a little curious.

 

[Parttimer]

I have no agenda... I'm just someone who frequents these boards and frankly, I think you're wrong about this one, I don't think it would work.... but this is strictly recreational discussion on my part.

 

[CHRles]

I am curious what ratings service are you using showing WPOI as a Top 5 Persons 12+ Cume? The Arbitron results I'm looking at right now shows WDUV at 9.9, WFLA at 7.2 (tied for second place with WRBQ) WQYK at 6.9, WBTP at 5.4, WFLZ at 5.3, WXGL at 5.1. WLLD at 4.7, WWRM at 4.2, and WFUS at 3.9. Those are your Top 10 Metro Persons 12+ Cume stations, and I didn't see WPOI as it is currently tied with WMTX for 12th place.

If you go to Radio Info's ratings section and click on Tampa you'll get the latest 6+ PPM results:
http://www.radio-info.com/site/markets/grid/tampa-st-petersburg-clearwater

WPOI ranks 12th as far as share goes with a 3.7, but in terms of cume it's about 625,000 listeners, good for 4th overall. To see the top cuming stations by rank simply click on the yellow Cume right under November 2009.

 

[badjef]

I guess, according to that logic that explains why WFLZ "failed" miserably at de-throning number one CHR WRBQ in 1989. Funny thing is it was WRBQ (not WFLZ) that immediately flipped from CHR to country due to WRBQ ratings loss while WFLZ became the new number one CHR in the market Very few thought in 1989 that WRBQ could be touched, because it was THE heritage station with a large, loyal following, but WFLZ proved otherwise.

WRBQ did not switch until 4 years later..."104.7 The Bee". a shell of itself by then. The support for a second Country station was known even before the "Power Pig" or the Jacor purchase of 93.3 a year before in 1988.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[jmtillery]

I have no agenda... I'm just someone who frequents these boards and frankly, I think you're wrong about this one, I don't think it would work.... but this is strictly recreational discussion on my part.

One thing I will say is this thread has attracted many different schools of thought; many of which cause a person, including me, to really think about the topic.

You may be correct in that a news-talk FM or even a hot talk FM may not work in the market. I don't have a working crystal ball that gives accurate fortunes to guarantee anything. However, what I do have is years of experience and a long successful track record although, I will admit, I have missed the mark on rare occassions.

Only time will tell for sure, but my professional opinion is a News-Talk FM will work out quite well. It may not necessarily become number one, but I am convinced it can fall within the Top 5, again, if implemented correctly. In other words you can't just throw 'any ole' programming on the air with no promotions and expect to gain any meaningful ratings. As with anything worthwhile, it will take careful, well thoughtout planning.

 

[jmtillery]

I am curious what ratings service are you using showing WPOI as a Top 5 Persons 12+ Cume? The Arbitron results I'm looking at right now shows WDUV at 9.9, WFLA at 7.2 (tied for second place with WRBQ) WQYK at 6.9, WBTP at 5.4, WFLZ at 5.3, WXGL at 5.1. WLLD at 4.7, WWRM at 4.2, and WFUS at 3.9. Those are your Top 10 Metro Persons 12+ Cume stations, and I didn't see WPOI as it is currently tied with WMTX for 12th place.

If you go to Radio Info's ratings section and click on Tampa you'll get the latest 6+ PPM results:
http://www.radio-info.com/site/markets/grid/tampa-st-petersburg-clearwater

WPOI ranks 12th as far as share goes with a 3.7, but in terms of cume it's about 625,000 listeners, good for 4th overall. To see the top cuming stations by rank simply click on the yellow Cume right under November 2009.

Thanks for the link. It looks very interesting and informative, and I will admit WPOI (as well as others) has an impressive cume.

 

[jmtillery]

I guess, according to that logic that explains why WFLZ "failed" miserably at de-throning number one CHR WRBQ in 1989. Funny thing is it was WRBQ (not WFLZ) that immediately flipped from CHR to country due to WRBQ ratings loss while WFLZ became the new number one CHR in the market Very few thought in 1989 that WRBQ could be touched, because it was THE heritage station with a large, loyal following, but WFLZ proved otherwise.

WRBQ did not switch until 4 years later..."104.7 The Bee". a shell of itself by then. The support for a second Country station was known even before the "Power Pig" or the Jacor purchase of 93.3 a year before in 1988.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

That may be true that there was a market void for a second FM country station. However, I'm sure we can all agree the only reason WRBQ made the flip to country is because WFLZ essentially destroyed Q 105 as we once knew it as a CHR outlet. Anyone who was in the area in the early '90s already knows WRBQ made all sorts of format and programming "adjustments" immediately following the first ratings period after Z 93 Oldies became the Power Pig . It wasn't too long before the "Q" finally threw in the contemporary hit towel and ventured into country music, filing another market void. Flipping to country was a smart move on the part of WRBQ's management

 

[badjef]

That may be true that there was a market void for a second FM country station. However, I'm sure we can all agree the only reason WRBQ made the flip to country is because WFLZ essentially destroyed Q 105 as we once knew it as a CHR outlet. Anyone who was in the area in the early '90s already knows WRBQ made all sorts of format and programming "adjustments" immediately following the first ratings period after Z 93 Oldies became the Power Pig . It wasn't too long before the "Q" finally threw in the contemporary hit towel and ventured into country music, filing another market void. Flipping to country was a smart move on the part of WRBQ's management

Jacor had bought Eastman and WFLA-AM and WPDS. Eastman was a rep company still under contract with Edens. As soon as that agreement was up, they switched 93.3. U-92, which had just upped and moved from 92.1 to 92.5, was waiting in the wings and scooped up the Oldies right away from the one year old Z-93. W-101 and WHBO were also Oldies after the changes. Still leaving only one country station in the market (WPCV was too rimshot and 92.1 WCTQ was too far south to even care about) but three Oldies, three BM's, one "Jazz", two AOR's, and a "Lite Rock" wierdo thing.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[jmtillery]

That may be true that there was a market void for a second FM country station. However, I'm sure we can all agree the only reason WRBQ made the flip to country is because WFLZ essentially destroyed Q 105 as we once knew it as a CHR outlet. Anyone who was in the area in the early '90s already knows WRBQ made all sorts of format and programming "adjustments" immediately following the first ratings period after Z 93 Oldies became the Power Pig . It wasn't too long before the "Q" finally threw in the contemporary hit towel and ventured into country music, filing another market void. Flipping to country was a smart move on the part of WRBQ's management

Jacor had bought Eastman and WFLA-AM and WPDS. Eastman was a rep company still under contract with Edens. As soon as that agreement was up, they switched 93.3. U-92, which had just upped and moved from 92.1 to 92.5, was waiting in the wings and scooped up the Oldies right away from the one year old Z-93. W-101 and WHBO were also Oldies after the changes. Still leaving only one country station in the market (WPCV was too rimshot and 92.1 WCTQ was too far south to even care about) but three Oldies, three BM's, one "Jazz", two AOR's, and a "Lite Rock" wierdo thing.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Do you remember the multiple FM "musical chairs" station swap of 1978?

 

[badjef]

Do you remember the multiple FM "musical chairs" station swap of 1978?

I was in San Diego at the time. Tampa market wasn't on my interest list until 1982.

In fact Florida wasn't even on the list until 1986.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[jmtillery]

It was an interesting situation. Just about every AM station that owned a co-located FM, traded the FM property with another AM station. There were about 4 or maybe 5 FM stations effected. The end result was the owners of number one WRBQ-FM wanted to also own the number one rated AM, which was WLCY-AM 1380, and pair it with Q 105. Both stations were Top 40, but soon after the "musical chairs" saga was complete, WRBQ flipped WLCY from Top 40 to Adult Contemporary sometime in 1979 only to flip to All News with some talk in 1981. It wasn't until 1983 that AM 1380 became WRBQ-AM.

 

[badjef]

It was an interesting situation. Just about every AM station that owned a co-located FM, traded the FM property with another AM station. There were about 4 or maybe 5 FM stations effected. The end result was the owners of number one WRBQ-FM wanted to also own the number one rated AM, which was WLCY-AM 1380, and pair it with Q 105. Both stations were Top 40, but soon after the "musical chairs" saga was complete, WRBQ flipped WLCY from Top 40 to Adult Contemporary sometime in 1979 only to flip to All News with some talk in 1981. It wasn't until 1983 that AM 1380 became WRBQ-AM.

Was that when CBS paired 620 and 94.9 as a combo?

There have been a few "musical chairs" in this market.

That sounds similar to what happened in 1999 when CCU bought JACR. And then there was the 1994 TV affiliation swaps in Detroit that left Sa-ra-so-ta! without a city grade CBS affiliate and 2 ABC city grade signals that still exists today.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[SCMcKinney]

jmtillery, I think your observations are pretty solid, and if I owned a station, I'd have to consider your advice. Speaking in general, what would you suggest could be done with a redundant AM signal, such as is the case with WINK in Ft. Myers? Would some sort of unserved music format be viable? Ultimately, would you bet that all the successful AM's will be going to FM, leaving the AM's, no matter what their signal power, carrying foreign languages, infomercials, religious broadcasts, or simply going dark?

 

[swfl]

jmtillery, I think your observations are pretty solid, and if I owned a station, I'd have to consider your advice. Speaking in general, what would you suggest could be done with a redundant AM signal, such as is the case with WINK in Ft. Myers? Would some sort of unserved music format be viable? Ultimately, would you bet that all the successful AM's will be going to FM, leaving the AM's, no matter what their signal power, carrying foreign languages, infomercials, religious broadcasts, or simply going dark?

That is an interesting question as there are actually two redundant signals now. Not only WINK 1240 but also WNOG 1270 in Naples. Those two stations have been simulcasting for several years now. Now with 92.5 we now have THREE signals in SW Florida with the same Becl/Limbaugh/Hannity blather all day. I would hope that there is something constructive that can be down with the two AM's.

WNOG use to be a great local station for the Naples area providing local news and local talk programs but all that went away when WINK bought them out and switched it to a simulcast, then in time it became almost totally syndicated with only the morning AM drive as local. I would love to see WNOG return as a truly local station for Naples.

 

[Studio20]

Names, Ladies and Gentlemen...names..for both an FM News and Sports station run by CBS. You'd need to steal, import, and bottom line pay people to do this. You're not considering using the 1010 staff, are you?


(BTW, I usually post this same line everytime someone suggests CBS flippnig sports to FM and bringing on news. No real names actually appeared after the posts, but it's fun to watch the wheels spin..)

Me again. Yes. I know, poor "netiquette" to respond to ones own post...but I thought after the dust would settle, ..someone...anyone....Buhler? ...would pitch some names of ...talent...preferably local..that would run the FM Sports station..

And since apparantly so few of you or us listen to the current product....we don't know...who and whom might be listenable on the ol' FM dial.


OK, thats enough. We now return you to the latest bout of Tampa/St Pete Mudslinging....

 

[DToTheJ]

Contrary to what some syndicators would have you believe, an FM talker with a lineup of third-tier syndication and no local heritage won't become a powerhouse. Check out "The Truth" in Denver for one such example.

Allow me to add to this equation, even though it's an AM station, the other talk station in Denver that carried Bill O'Reilly's old radio show and eventually went dark!

 

[jmtillery]

It was an interesting situation. Just about every AM station that owned a co-located FM, traded the FM property with another AM station. There were about 4 or maybe 5 FM stations effected. The end result was the owners of number one WRBQ-FM wanted to also own the number one rated AM, which was WLCY-AM 1380, and pair it with Q 105. Both stations were Top 40, but soon after the "musical chairs" saga was complete, WRBQ flipped WLCY from Top 40 to Adult Contemporary sometime in 1979 only to flip to All News with some talk in 1981. It wasn't until 1983 that AM 1380 became WRBQ-AM.

Was that when CBS paired 620 and 94.9 as a combo?

There have been a few "musical chairs" in this market.

That sounds similar to what happened in 1999 when CCU bought JACR. And then there was the 1994 TV affiliation swaps in Detroit that left Sa-ra-so-ta! without a city grade CBS affiliate and 2 ABC city grade signals that still exists today.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Actually the WSUN/WYNF combo came a few years after the first FM "Musical Chairs" saga.

The best way I can describe it is by giving you a before-and-after outline. Anywhere you see a blank reflects details I either have never known or simply have forgotten; namely some of the earlier licensees. The outline to the best of my memory is as follows:



Pre "Musical Chairs"


WFLA-AM 970/WFLA-FM 93.3 - General Media (Co-owned with WFLA-TV 8 )

WLCY-AM 1380/WLCY-FM 94.9 - Rahall Communications (Co-owned with WLCY-TV 10)

WTAN-AM 1340/WOKF-FM 95.7 - Broadcast Enterprises Network Incorporated (BENI)

WSUN-AM 620/WQXM-FM 97.9 - Plough Broadcasting (Plough Pharmaceuticals)

WQYK-AM 1110/WQYK-FM 99.5 - Marshall Rowland

WDAE-AM 1250/WJYW-FM 100.7 - Rounsaville Broadcasting of Atlanta

WGNB-AM 1520/WKES-FM 101.5 - Southern Keswick Ministries/Moody Bible Institute

WQSA-AM 1220/WQSR-FM 102.5

WBRD-AM 1420/WDUV-FM 103.3 - Nelson Family

No AM - WRBQ-FM 104.7

WGUL-AM 1500/WGUL-FM 105.5 - Richey Airwaves, Inc.

WWBA-AM 680/WWBA-FM 107.3 - Ed Winton



Post "Musical Chairs"



WFLA-AM 970/WFLA-FM 93.3 - Media General

WDAE-AM 1250/WYNF 94.9 - Taft Broadcasting

WTAN-AM 1340/WOKF-FM 95.7 - Broadcast Enterprises Network, Incorporated (BENI)

WSUN-AM 620/WQXM-FM 97.9 - Plough Broadcasting

No AM - WQYK-FM 99.5 - Marhall Rowland

No AM - WJYW-FM 100.7 - Combined Communications (Gannett)

WGNB-AM 1520/WKES-FM 101.5 - Moody Bible Institute

WQSA-AM 1220/WQSR-FM 102.5

WBRD-AM 1420/WDUV-FM 103.3 - Nelson Family

WLCY-AM 1380/WRBQ-FM 104.7

WGUL-AM 1500/WGUL-FM 105.5 - Richey Airwaves, Inc.


The above is the basic before-and-after outline of the general Tampa Bay AM-FM combinations and the licensees. The WSUN-AM 620/WYNF-FM 94.9 combination occured when Plough Broadcasting decided to sell all its broadcast holdings in the eary 80s. Plough sold WSUN-AM to Citicasters predecessor Taft Broadcasting which created the WSUN/WYNF combo, while Taft simultaneously sold WDAE-AM 1250 to Gannett, once again reuniting WDAE-AM with WJYW-FM. WQXM-FM 97.9 was spun off seperately athough I don't remember who acquired the station. BENI sold WTAN-AM1340 and WOKF-FM 95.7 seperately with WOKF becoming WCKX and a format flip to CHR as "96 Kix". WQSA-AM 1220 Sarasota sold WQSR in 1979 to Cosmos Broadcasting. WQSR became WSRZ. Taft later sold WSUN-AM/WYNF-FM to CBS so Taft could acquire WTSP-TV (formally WLCY-TV). Ed Winton sold WWBA-FM to Metromedia who then sold to Cox when it became WWRM. CBS transformed country WSUN to all news, but later gave up on an all news formt and sold WSUN to Cox, where Cox paired WSUN-AM 620 with the new WWRM-FM 107.3. CBS later sold WYNF to Cox creating WSUN/WWRM/WYNF.

This isn't the complete history, but it is the general run down of the before-and-after FM statioon swap of 1978.

 

[jmtillery]

jmtillery, I think your observations are pretty solid, and if I owned a station, I'd have to consider your advice. Speaking in general, what would you suggest could be done with a redundant AM signal, such as is the case with WINK in Ft. Myers? Would some sort of unserved music format be viable? Ultimately, would you bet that all the successful AM's will be going to FM, leaving the AM's, no matter what their signal power, carrying foreign languages, infomercials, religious broadcasts, or simply going dark?

It has been my observation over the years that successful AM formats everntually move over to FM and for good reason.

Think back to the 1970s when AM radio had a variety of successful music formats, namely Top 40. Many FM operators saw an opportunity to "experiement" with bringing a tradional AM format to FM. The theory was that FM has a cleaner, static free signal as opposed to AM that either directionalized its signal after sunset, reduced power, or signed off the air. AM was and still is subject to interference from a variety of sources such as power lines and lightning strikes. At night AM suffers from signal loss due to the directionailaztion of the pattern or reduced power. In the case of daytimers, you obviously have no night signal.

With FM it is completely the opposite, so from a business perspective, it makes perfect business sense to move a successful, highly and reasonably highly rated AM format to FM which affords the best opportunity for format growth with ratings and ad revenues.

Looking at the radio landscape today and using news-talk as an example, we have a successful AM format that WILL evetually move to the FM band in all markets for the same reason Top 40 moved from AM to FM in the 1970s and 1980s. In todays radio landscape, if you have a successful AM station with a highly successful format, said AM will have no real choice but to eventually move the format to FM or risk losing market share at the very real possibilty that a trailing rated and competing music FM will implement and replicate the successful AM format on FM, much the same as in the '70s when trailing rated beautiful music FMs flipped to Top 40. The 70s and 80s proved that a successful AM format will, indeed, work and surpass previously expectations on FM.

Regarding WINK-AM, before I can make any informed recommendations, I would first need to research the Fort Myers market to determine what format may best fit a 1kw-U class C AM. I can say that whatever format is chosen, it is imperative that the format is predominantly local, filling a market void, and catering to the needs of the residents of Fort Myers. It is equally imperative that the new station format is heavily promoted so the market is made aware of the new station. One thing that WINK has to its advantage is a set of heritage, recognizable call letters which will help greatly in maintaing station stability and credibilty. I agree that eventually the AM simulcast with the FM should come to an end.

One possible format would be to continue with talk programming, seperate from the FM, but leaning towards business and financial news without actually becoming a business talk formatted station. This has worked quite well in West Palm Beach with Clear Channel news-talk WJNO-AM 1290 and "Business" talk WBZT-AM 1230. That is one possibilty that may be a viable option. However, once again, as previously explained, a detailed market research analysis should be conducted before any final format is determined.

 

[DToTheJ]

Regarding WINK-AM, before I can make any informed recommendations, I would first need to research the Fort Myers market to determine what format may best fit a 1kw-U class C AM. I can say that whatever format is chosen, it is imperative that the format is predominantly local, filling a market void, and catering to the needs of the residents of Fort Myers. It is equally imperative that the new station format is heavily promoted so the market is made aware of the new station. One thing that WINK has to its advantage is a set of heritage, recognizable call letters which will help greatly in maintaing station stability and credibilty. I agree that eventually the AM simulcast with the FM should come to an end.

Apparently, the owners appear to toss that WINK "heritage" aside and concentrate on the "Fox News" brand on the FM side - in fact, only the FM side of the simulcast, and rightly so. I can't think of another format that would be appropriate for an AM station that wishes to uphold the "WINK" name, other than perhaps classic country. And chances are that will be as less of a "live and local" format that you can get.