A Change Coming to KGO

[michael hagerty]

Thank you for a VERY detailed explanation of how this works. Is that a radio from a Mini Cooper? The car I rented was a 2017 Mazda, and it definitely was not intuitive at all. It felt like you had to navigate through many screens just to get to a menu that would allow the radio station to be changed. It looks like you have to have quite a bit of information on your phone to make this system worthwhile though. My phone (iPhone SE) has all of my contacts, but no music or any other useful apps on it. Though it looks like you can pretty much use any app from your phone if you’ve got CarPlay installed.

Yes, it's the new Mini Cooper SE electric. I review cars for (part of) a living and that's one of the test vehicles this week.

Mazda's infotainment system, even after an update in 2020, is one of the worst interfaces in the business.

Most new cars come with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto at no charge. So it's literally just plug in and use them as needed.

As for useful apps, that's something that you can easily change via your phone. You're in control of that. I had an SE. It should, by default, have phone, text messages, maps, music, podcasts and audiobooks. Phone, text messages and maps need nothing other than your input at the time. Music, podcasts and audiobooks are things you can build libraries on (or just check out their suggestions) away from the car on the phone. When you connect to CarPlay next time, it's there from before.

 

[rustyhodge]

About 8,500 in a market of about 8 million.

That doesn't count online listeners, or does it? Do those numbers show up separately?

 

[rustyhodge]

I'm just here to point out that Spotify has one profitable quarter in its entire history (around 10 years). It increasingly looks to me like "the streaming companies" can only survive if they are subsidiaries of Google, Amazon or Apple, operating with infinite piles of money.

I would argue that Spotify, et al, are still in their build the business phase. They spend a tremendous amount of money on software development- not just recommendation systems but all sorts of tools to manage a global music business. I know some people there who just work on the systems to manage royalties for all the different global places they work in. Their licensing is substantially more complex than AM/FM/digital radio because on-demand isn't handled via ASCAP/BMI/SESAC and the copyright law they operate under means they have to have direct deals with rightsholders. And those laws and related contracts are different from country to country.
What I'm saying is that they're spending tons of money building infrastructure systems and tools (not to mention branding) that will make a profitable business in the future.
Look at all the money that went into satellite radio as well. Eventually, SiriusXM became profitable but they had to spend a LOT to get there. Amazon didn't show profits for the longest time either, they were reinvesting it all for the first 10+ years.

 

[michael hagerty]

I would argue that Spotify, et al, are still in their build the business phase. They spend a tremendous amount of money on software development- not just recommendation systems but all sorts of tools to manage a global music business. I know some people there who just work on the systems to manage royalties for all the different global places they work in. Their licensing is substantially more complex than AM/FM/digital radio because on-demand isn't handled via ASCAP/BMI/SESAC and the copyright law they operate under means they have to have direct deals with rightsholders. And those laws and related contracts are different from country to country.
What I'm saying is that they're spending tons of money building infrastructure systems and tools (not to mention branding) that will make a profitable business in the future.
Look at all the money that went into satellite radio as well. Eventually, SiriusXM became profitable but they had to spend a LOT to get there. Amazon didn't show profits for the longest time either, they were reinvesting it all for the first 10+ years.

True, but Amazon didn't have competition from a company that made its money doing something else. Nor, really, did SiriusXM. Spotify's problem (like Netflix's) is that Apple and Google's audio business is supported by huge, money-generating parent companies.

 

[rustyhodge]

It felt like you had to navigate through many screens just to get to a menu that would allow the radio station to be changed.

Many of the manufacturer's car "entertainment" systems are indeed overly-complex and hard to use. I was in a rental car that you had to menu dive to change the fan speed of the AC!!!
This is starting to change. Google has 'Android Automotive' which is an operating system for new cars. (Not to be confused with the CarPlay-like Android Auto). Android Automotive is an operating system and platform running directly on the in-vehicle hardware. Rumors are that Apple may be releasing something similar in the future. At least that will bring some improved user-interface to vehicles!

 

[rustyhodge]

True, but Amazon didn't have competition from a company that made its money doing something else. Nor, really, did SiriusXM. Spotify's problem (like Netflix's) is that Apple and Google's audio business is supported by huge, money-generating parent companies.

Would you not say that Walmart .com was Amazon's competitor?
I understand your point. I was thinking more on the line that "all streaming services are doomed because they can't make money", which I think eventually (some of them) will be successful.
I have both Spotify and Apple Music and as much as I usually love Apple products, I like the Spotify product more.

 

[michael hagerty]

Would you not say that Walmart .com was Amazon's competitor?
I understand your point. I was thinking more on the line that "all streaming services are doomed because they can't make money", which I think eventually (some of them) will be successful.
I have both Spotify and Apple Music and as much as I usually love Apple products, I like the Spotify product more.

I don't think Walmart.com and Amazon really competed, Rusty. I think they were trying to do the same basic thing, but that, especially in the early days, they appealed to two entirely different types of shoppers. And Walmart always had limits to its inventory that Amazon, especially given its affiliate relationships, never did. You could buy ANYTHING, within the bounds of the law.

 

[CTListener]

So, I went and listened. Thompson actually has listened to the type of shows KGO now carries and bet, he says. Conway said Mark would have been perfect for the format and Mark said "Yeah, I could have scratched my degenerate itch." Conway says he fell for the programs and did a little betting too.

Mark did not discuss AT ALL what he knew or what was going on at the time of the flip. Just that he was the last voice on KGO and Tim said they handled it badly and could have let him say goodbye.

Do you think Thompson was under some contractual restraint preventing him from publicly criticizing Cumulus, or was simply doing the prudent and pragmatic thing: not knocking a former employer because prospective future employers might (for good reason) think he wouldn't hesitate to bad-mouth them to an audience if things were to turn sour during his time with them?

NOTE: Corrected Audacy to Cumulus.

 

[michael hagerty]

Do you think Thompson was under some contractual restraint preventing him from publicly criticizing Audacy, or was simply doing the prudent and pragmatic thing: not knocking a former employer because prospective future employers might (for good reason) think he wouldn't hesitate to bad-mouth them to an audience if things were to turn sour during his time with them?

Cumulus, not Audacy. And I'm thinking both. Generally, severance packages include non-disparagement clauses.

 

[CTListener]

Cumulus, not Audacy. And I'm thinking both. Generally, severance packages include non-disparagement clauses.

Thanks. Corrected.

 

[asugeorge1]

Mark did not discuss AT ALL what he knew or what was going on at the time of the flip. Just that he was the last voice on KGO and Tim said they handled it badly and could have let him say goodbye.

What you need to listen to is the end of Hour 4 of the John and Ken show during their crossover talk with Tim Conway Jr. and Mark Thompson. That is when they went into more detail about the flip and what Mark knew. It starts with about 6 minutes left in the show. It’s a good listen. You can find it here: ‎John and Ken on Demand: John & Ken Show Hour 4 (10/13) on Apple Podcasts

 

[davideduardo]

That doesn't count online listeners, or does it? Do those numbers show up separately?

In major metros, almost all online listening is counted separately because the ads are different, making the stream a "different station" for ratings.

If the stream is a 100% simulcast, it is combined. Most aren't.

 

[michael hagerty]

What you need to listen to is the end of Hour 4 of the John and Ken show during their crossover talk with Tim Conway Jr. and Mark Thompson. That is when they went into more detail about the flip and what Mark knew. It starts with about 6 minutes left in the show. It’s a good listen. You can find it here: ‎John and Ken on Demand: John & Ken Show Hour 4 (10/13) on Apple Podcasts

I wish you'd just summarized. I could have read that in thirty seconds. Instead, it took me six minutes to learn what I've been reading in this thread. Thompson was told before the show, he asked if he could say goodbye, they said no. He went on for a few minutes and KGO went off.

I got clarity on "corporate person running the board", though I promise you that you don't throw someone who just got off the plane onto a control console. That was a KGO employee who was told "we trust you and if you want to keep your job, here's what you'll do." It means the person who they pulled out of the booth was on the list of names getting pink slips at 10:15 and the person they put in wasn't.

 

[CaliRadioFan]

I'm scanning the AM band tonight, and I just came across KNX Los Angeles, coming in loud and mostly clear (my computer monitor is, unsurprisingly, causing a bunch of noise). It's still broadcasting on 1070, evidently, but they're emphasizing 97.1 FM (last I listened, it was always "KNX 1070", but now it's "KNX News, 97.1 FM" So, they're not getting rid of their AM yet, but they do seem to be de-emphasizing its importance.

That said, who owns KNX? Audacy?

c

All the AM stations who add FM have kept the AM signal to the best of my knowledge, but identify on air with the FM frequency.

 

[TheBigA]

I wish you'd just summarized. I could have read that in thirty seconds. Instead, it took me six minutes to learn what I've been reading in this thread. Thompson was told before the show, he asked if he could say goodbye, they said no.

This whole thing about wanting to say goodbye comes off to me as selfish and the product of personal ego. There is no benefit to Cumulus to have some tearful goodbye from one host to the exclusion of everyone else. Why should Thompson be allowed to do something not afforded to anyone else at the station? On the other hand, Cumulus allowed WPLJ to do a goodbye when it was sold to EMF. And they referenced the station's long heritage in it's own tweet. So it's not like this is some company policy. But if Thompson wanted to say goodbye, he has his own platform where he was able to do it.

 

[semoochie]

All the AM stations who add FM have kept the AM signal to the best of my knowledge, but identify on air with the FM frequency.

Just in my own region, I can think of three stations that switched the AM to something else: In Portland, KXL moved Sports to the AM. In Seattle, KIRO switched the AM to Sports and KJR-AM changed to a different Sports format from the FM.

 

[michael hagerty]

This whole thing about wanting to say goodbye comes off to me as selfish and the product of personal ego. There is no benefit to Cumulus to have some tearful goodbye from one host to the exclusion of everyone else. Why should Thompson be allowed to do something not afforded to anyone else at the station? On the other hand, Cumulus allowed WPLJ to do a goodbye when it was sold to EMF. And they referenced the station's long heritage in it's own tweet. So it's not like this is some company policy. But if Thompson wanted to say goodbye, he has his own platform where he was able to do it.

Well, first of all, Thompson's too big a pro to have been "tearful".

Look, given the screw-ups over the past decade, Cumulus is pretty GD lucky they had an audience at all, and it was pros like Thompson that built it for them by being there and providing information and conversation that they found valuable.

We radio pros talk a lot about building a relationship with an audience being the one thing other audio platforms can't match. Thompson did that for them. He created trust on behalf of the station, and by extension, the people owning it and running it. The way it went down was kind of like having brunch with your wife, the doorbell ringing and you're yelling "Honey, it's the cheerleader I'm running off with. Bye!"

Thompson simply wanted the opportunity to explain to an audience that, in moments, was going to be confused and maybe a bit hurt. Why him instead of all the other hosts? Because Cumulus told him and not them.

 

[TheBigA]

Thompson simply wanted the opportunity to explain to an audience that, in moments, was going to be confused and maybe a bit hurt. Why him instead of all the other hosts? Because Cumulus told him and not them.

Not true. All staffers were told but the change happened on Thompson's watch. Cumulus has gone through format changes on other stations, and they knew what they wanted.

 

[michael hagerty]

Not true. All staffers were told but the change happened on Thompson's watch. Cumulus has gone through format changes on other stations, and they knew what they wanted.

Big A: My understanding, from press reports quoting Nikki Medoro and others, was that there was an all-staff meeting called for 10:15 a.m. at the studios and offices on Battery. That meeting began when the loop started playing and that's when all staffers were told. Thompson and the board op who got swapped in were the only air team members told in advance---and only because Cumulus was trusting them to execute it as directed.

 

[TheBigA]

Thompson and the board op who got swapped in were the only air team members told in advance---and only because Cumulus was trusting them to execute it as directed.

Doesn't matter. So far you're only hearing Thompson's POV, and making assumptions from that. As I said, allowing him the opportunity to say goodbye was selfish on his part. The audience is not HIS audience. They don't belong to him.