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A Change Coming to KGO

"if there's a use case for the rest of the AM band -- low power, Part-15-style community radio, or uses for underserved communities -- let's use it for that."

I like that thought. Only make it say- 25 watts at night and up to 100 daytime maybe.
Or do what The Netherlands has done, where around 120 LPAMs operate with powers between 1 and 100 watts. No idea of how many listeners such stations might actually have.

One of these days I need to check the UTwente SDR around noon Dutch time to see if it can receive any of those stations.
 
Or do what The Netherlands has done, where around 120 LPAMs operate with powers between 1 and 100 watts. No idea of how many listeners such stations might actually have.
I find it interesting that today's music listeners will put up with a low-bandwidth Spotify stream that sounds pretty much on-par with AM radio, but wouldn't think of listening to an actual AM radio station.

Dave B.
 
I find it interesting that today's music listeners will put up with a low-bandwidth Spotify stream that sounds pretty much on-par with AM radio, but wouldn't think of listening to an actual AM radio station.

Dave B.
What are you talking about?🤨 We have Spotify, and it has excellent, full fidelity audio…superior to FM.

If you think Spotify sounds like AM radio I would suggest a visit to the audiologist.šŸ˜–

Anyone pumping AM radio for music listening is letting nostalgia run amok.
 
I find it interesting that today's music listeners will put up with a low-bandwidth Spotify stream that sounds pretty much on-par with AM radio, but wouldn't think of listening to an actual AM radio station.

Dave B.
No high (or any) noise floor on Spotify, no atmospheric interference. And it sounds more like FM than AM, even on spoken-word podcasts.
 
What are you talking about?🤨 We have Spotify, and it has excellent, full fidelity audio…superior to FM.

If you think Spotify sounds like AM radio I would suggest a visit to the audiologist.šŸ˜–

Anyone pumping AM radio for music listening is letting nostalgia run amok.
Not pumping AM at all. Perhaps it's different if you're a paid subscriber, but I don't get much above about 7 KHz when I play anything on Spotify. It sounds really band-limited to me. The interference - of course, that's a whole different story.

Dave B.
 
Not pumping AM at all. Perhaps it's different if you're a paid subscriber, but I don't get much above about 7 KHz when I play anything on Spotify. It sounds really band-limited to me. The interference - of course, that's a whole different story.

Dave B.
I would say it's a settings issue, Spotify plays at 320KBps AAC.
 
I would say it's a settings issue, Spotify plays at 320KBps AAC.
Only for premium subscribers. Free users get a lower bit rate. Subscribers can also select a lower bit rate (branded as a data usage reduction for mobile users). I'm not sure what the bit rates are off the top of my head.

A 7kHz frequency cutoff, though, is basically the ideal for AM broadcast.
 
Only for premium subscribers. Free users get a lower bit rate. Subscribers can also select a lower bit rate (branded as a data usage reduction for mobile users). I'm not sure what the bit rates are off the top of my head.

A 7kHz frequency cutoff, though, is basically the ideal for AM broadcast.
I did a quick google and a few sources echo this: with Free Spotify, the maximum bitrate you can stream at is 128kbps on the web player and 160kbps on the mobile and desktop apps.

That is still a lot better than AM! AM could broadcast better audio if it was given more bandwidth but that won't happen I think due to how established AM is.
 
As a kid in the 70s, I often listened to KGO when growing up in SoCal. I really listened to it from Orange County during the '89 quake. Most people I knew were aware of KGO and listened some of the time.
Way back in the day my Dad lived in San Diego for a time and listened to Jazzbeaux Collins late nights on KGO...his show was his favorite.
 
I find it interesting that today's music listeners will put up with a low-bandwidth Spotify stream that sounds pretty much on-par with AM radio, but wouldn't think of listening to an actual AM radio station.

Dave B.
The European standard for MW (AM) is 4.5 kHz audio. This is based on the 9 kHz channel spacing/bandwidth. Although here in the US our channel spacing/bandwidth is 10 kHz, the rules permit 10 kHz audio, providing that a brickwall filter is in used ahead of the antenna system to prevent any audio above 10 kHz. To prevent artifacts that result from brickwall type filters the audio is rolled off such that there is no audio above about 9.5 kHz reaching the phasers/antenna system.
 
Only for premium subscribers. Free users get a lower bit rate. Subscribers can also select a lower bit rate (branded as a data usage reduction for mobile users). I'm not sure what the bit rates are off the top of my head.

A 7kHz frequency cutoff, though, is basically the ideal for AM broadcast.
I recently discovered that Spotify offers a free service and it sounds just fine on my Bose soundbar!
 
Whatever the frequency response is, what bothers me about the lower bitrates (on any service) is audible artifacting from the lossy compression.

To my ears, 128kbps MP3 has a phasey, "tinkling" sound in the highs, and the mids seem mushy. AAC is somewhat better in that the artifacts are smoother and less pronounced, but they're still there.

Things improve at 160kbps, and I find anything above 192kbps to be tolerable.

For the most part, If I bother with MP3 or AAC, I encode at the maximum 320kbps, and even those aren't 100% perfect, but in practice, they sound almost the same as WAV files.

c
 
I did a quick google and a few sources echo this: with Free Spotify, the maximum bitrate you can stream at is 128kbps on the web player and 160kbps on the mobile and desktop apps.

That is still a lot better than AM! AM could broadcast better audio if it was given more bandwidth but that won't happen I think due to how established AM is.
Alright. I stand corrected. I was basing my observations on what I hear on a friend's system. She always plays Spotify whenever I go over there and it sounds really mushy to me. But I looked a bit further and discovered it's blue-tooth connected to the stereo, with who-knows-what going on in that chain. An A/B comparison between Spotify and FM radio is night-and-day on her system. But I did try Spotify on a PC with a regular audio connection and I have to agree. It's full of artifacts, but not band-limited.

Dave B.
 
Yeah, I can deal with band limited audio (even AM radio-quality is OK, especially on a good set), but the lossy compression artifacts that many streaming services have simply ruins the experience for me.

I discovered that Amazon Music Unlimited (which I inadvertently discovered I have) has HD and Ultra HD. I don't know what formats those are, but I'mve found that much of it sounds pretty decent.

There are a few cases of songs that have absolutely horrid artifacts (worse than low bitrate MP3!), even supposedly Ultra HD ones. The standard bitrate versions I find on Youtube (and the lossless version of a few classical pieces I bought from the iTunes store a few years ago) actually sound better than Amazon Music's "HD" versions (I also have some copies of some songs on vinyl, and even those sound better than Amazon's HD!). Best I can figure is that for those songs, there was some sort of transcoding error or something.

Oh, well. At least I have options.

c
 
There are a few cases of songs that have absolutely horrid artifacts (worse than low bitrate MP3!), even supposedly Ultra HD ones.
Amazon Ultra HD hi-res quality is claimed to be lossless 24-bit/192kHz resolution
Amazon HD audio is 16-bit/44.1kHz

Keep in mind that the source material may be suspect. There are plenty of examples of tracks that were actually lossy codecs transcoded to lossless, which could explain what you're hearing. Or if it was "remastered" using one of the noise-removal systems it can sound artifact-y even though it isn't.
 
Alright. I stand corrected. I was basing my observations on what I hear on a friend's system. She always plays Spotify whenever I go over there and it sounds really mushy to me. But I looked a bit further and discovered it's blue-tooth connected to the stereo, with who-knows-what going on in that chain.
Bluetooth connection protocols have greatly improved over the past decade. Earlier bluetooth versions did not have good audio range, while newer editions sound much better. You would have to see how old your friend's equipment is.
 
Perry Michael Simon at AllAccess hit on a similar analogy almost six months later in today's column:

AM Devitalization by Perry Michael Simon
FM Mall isn't too far behind. The future of media is all online. It's not a matter of if, but when.

RE: KGO: looks like their ratings have stayed more or less the same, I think the reported / estimated cume might have dropped, but I didn't copy down the previous numbers. I think it used to be 90K and now it's 53K, whatever that really indicates -- and provided those numbers are really accurate.
 
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Or do what The Netherlands has done, where around 120 LPAMs operate with powers between 1 and 100 watts. No idea of how many listeners such stations might actually have.

One of these days I need to check the UTwente SDR around noon Dutch time to see if it can receive any of those stations.
When I was in the Netherlands last year, I found that neither low-power AM listed for Amsterdam was on the air. Earlier in that trip, I was also near Eindhoven, where Radio Brainport was operating, and broadcasting in English, on the old Radio 1 frequency of 747, but being entirely automated and without any audible means of financial support. I was in a village just south of Eindhoven and found the signal to be very noisy there. The station is reportedly at the High Tech Campus, a former Philips facility on the southern edge of Eindhoven. Considering how dense the FM networks are there, I really don't see how the AM band is going to attract many listeners. I don't know about DAB; next time I'm over there to see the in-laws, I really should try to see if I can buy a radio for that purpose.
 
FM Mall isn't too far behind. The future of media is all online. It's not a matter of if, but when.

RE: KGO: looks like their ratings have stayed more or less the same, I think the reported / estimated cume might have dropped, but I didn't copy down the previous numbers. I think it used to be 90K and now it's 53K, whatever that really indicates -- and provided those numbers are really accurate.

I don’t expect this sports betting to continue. It competes for listening time against KNBR and it also despite costing so little to run, is not a good addition to the market in any sense.

They will probably run with it another 1-2 years and either try for a KGO ā€œreturnā€ by running some nationalized news. Either that or sell it, though they supposedly care about this cluster.
 
I don’t expect this sports betting to continue. It competes for listening time against KNBR and it also despite costing so little to run, is not a good addition to the market in any sense.

They will probably run with it another 1-2 years and either try for a KGO ā€œreturnā€ by running some nationalized news. Either that or sell it, though they supposedly care about this cluster.
You might be the first person in 44 pages to suggest that KGO's sports betting format competes with anyone for listening time.

The advantage to the format is its ability to make money in the absence of ratings with very little overhead. The business case for abandoning that to go back to a ratings-dependent format is gonna be a tough one.
 
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