A K-Rock by any other name....

[SoulCrusher]

Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative

> I respect your opinion as well. The biggest factor as to
> why WEQX and WFNX aren't very successful in the ratings
> department is station signal. WEQX broadcasts from
> Manchester, VT, which is a good 40 miles or so from Albany,
> while WHRL (Channel 103.1) has their antenna closer to the
> city. WFNX also has reception issues and is only a class A
> station (3kw equivalent) which broadcasts several miles
> north of Boston, but with hopes of relocating its
> transmitter into downtown Boston. Plus WFNX had a couple
> years of an identity crisis, and they may be still trying to
> bounce back from that. In both cases, both stations do have
> the best signals in the markets that they are trying to
> serve, however the quality of the stations themselves should
> speak louder.
>
> Jacko
>


I compare WFNX's situation to Indie 103.1 in the L.A. market. One of the reasons why they're struggling is because they're up against fierce, established competition. It's a matter of opinion, of course, but I think FNX and Indie are the closest thing to authentic Alternative Radio out there today, and I would love to see them both thrive, but they're both up against better financed competition from every perspective - signal, personalities, advertising budgets, big media conglomerates backing them up (specifically, CBS/Infinity stations KROQ and WBCN - assuming the latter hasn't gone "Free-FM" on us yet). While some of the stations competing with them are either Active Rock or a more commercialized take on Alternative, the fact is that some people that would listen to FNX or Indie don't know about them because they're not omnipresent like the competition.</P>

One wonders how FNX or Indie would do in a market like NYC or Philadelphia, since neither market has had a station remotely like them. Of course, I don't think we'll ever find out. We're more likely to get yet another attempt at courting the beer companies and the frat boys sooner (at least in NYC).</P>

 

[Frish]

Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative

>
> Indie 103.1 is by far the best commercial rock station in
> the country.
>
That is a matter of taste only, you say theyre the best because they dont sound as commercial as many others, that is again a matter of yoru personal taste and why the ipod thrives today.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative

> >
> > Indie 103.1 is by far the best commercial rock station in
> > the country.
> >
> That is a matter of taste only, you say theyre the best
> because they dont sound as commercial as many others, that
> is again a matter of yoru personal taste and why the ipod
> thrives today.
>


Agreed - it all depends on taste. Those who like hearing a bunch of hits played frequently along with straightforward mainstream "new rock" will be more likely to listen to KROQ, G Rock Radio, etc. Those that enjoy the roots of Alternative Radio and want to hear what the future holds for the format will be very passionate fans of Indie.</P>

There's nothing wrong with either take on the Alternative format. It's just that most people have a tendency to flock to the familiar, and that is why the former station descibed in the above paragraph is the far more prevalent variation of the format. I believe that if a company that has a real passion for the format with the right amount of resources, they could program an Indie-type station in a market that is lacking a station that plays Alternative or Modern Rock 24/7 (NYC or Philly) and succeed with it. Nothing like this has ever been attempted in these markets, so you never know - it might work. But I'm not holding my breath for it to happen - the fans of the format aren't considered as attractive to advertisers as the frat boys, the soccer moms and the teenage girls, and it's doubtful that any of these groups would listen to an Indie-type station ... some of them actually might if it were the only game in town as far as Modern Rock is concerned - that's right, NYC, I'm talking to you!</P>

 

[Indielover]

Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative

> Remember Indie 103.1 does not cover all or even most of the
> L.A. market. It would be unfair to compare their ratings to
> KROQ. It would be like saying WLIR wasn't successful
> because they didn't beat WNEW in 1983.
>
> Indie 103.1 is by far the best commercial rock station in
> the country.


I realize it really is a matter of taste..or lack of. Listening to KROQ when it began streaming about 6 weeks ago, I was amazed at how bad this station really is..."system of a down" and "fall out boy" every 5 minutes..corporate crap at its worst. KROQ was a great station in the 80's, that is over now. I believe however, there is an audience(mostly young) for this type of corporate "new rock". Indie 103 is a station for true music aficionados and perhaps the best commercial station anywhere ever. Modern rock is only part of this variety station, between the morning show with Dickie Barrett, Jonseys jukebox middays, and other shows nightly..many styles of music are presented. All of this however is a matter of opinion..to each his own.

 

[SoulCrusher]

Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / KROQ

> however Kroq DOES still play metallica so what is the
> difference? they also play the korn's of te world which have
> found their way into the alternative playlists while they
> themselves pronounce themselves as "metal".


Really? I had no idea. I remember seeing some article on Alternative Radio a few years ago, and was under the impression that they were closer to the roots of Alternative (as in, not playing Metallica, nu-metal and post-grunge all that much). Much credit is given to KROQ and its PD (is it still Kevin Weatherly?) for being trendsetters for Alternative radio. Which could mean that this is where to lay the blame for the aforementioned bands getting so much airtime on Alternative in recent years. Whatever the case, it's not hard to see why KROQ outperforms its competition - heritage, more commercial, better signal, better financed, etc. If Indie had more money invested in it along with a stronger signal in the market, there's no doubt it would take some of KROQ's listeners away. But would it ever top KROQ? I doubt it.</P>
> Los Angeles is also more of a rock community too, more bands are
> spawned there so there is also more of an audience to
> support an alternative station. Im not tring to poke holes
> in your beliefs I'm with you and would love to have
> alternative rock back in New York, just like the country
> listeners (all 8 of them,,,lol) would love a country
> station!.


That may be true, but NYC is home to the Ramones, the Talking Heads, Blondie, Television, Quicksand, the Strokes, Interpol, the Bravery, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, We Are Scientists, the Blues Explosion, and a host of others. Sure, only a handful of these bands are commercially viable these days, but a lot of it is label politics, I guess.</P>

Ultimately it has to do with the music that is pushed forth into the public consciousness (usually ushered in by MTV, sadly leaning toward manufactured pop, intellectually-challenged hip-hop and only the most mainstream rock these days) - combine that with the fact that Caucasians (who make up the bulk of the Modern Rock audience) make up a small percentage of the population in NYC compared to other parts of the country, and that explains why the Alternative format has never been given a fair shot in the market. However, CBS/Infinity ought to be able to figure out that when something is not working after being given 2 or 3 books, it's time to throw in the towel and try something different. People didn't want an "Alternative" station that played Guns N' Roses and AC/DC and had a library of 300 songs, tops - of course it took them years to figure that out. The fact that they went Classic-leaning Mainstream Rock and now to a very weak Hot Talk format indicates to me that CBS/Infinity is clueless to what the market needs. Come on, guys - we already have a Classic-leaning (or all Classic) Rocker and the Hot Talk format was far superior on WNEW a few years ago, and you weren't satisfied with its ratings after the O&A fallout. I would bet the farm that an Alternative format presented "Jack" style would get better ratings than Free-FM will. I'm not saying it would receive any more than a 3 or 4 share, but I am certain it would do better than Free-FM. However, no one is ever going to convince the powers that be over at CBS/Infinity of this.</P>

 

[EasyBakeOven]

Re: Yep.

In L.A. KROQ will always beat any competition, because most listeners and (diary keepers) don’t call it “Alternative,” they call it “KROQ Music.”

I think the problem with WFNX in Boston is mostly the signal. It was mentioned that they’re going up an established station, but WFNX is one of the pioneering Alternative stations going back to the mid 80s (while WBCN was doing mainstream AOR).

Y100 in Philly always had signal problems, but it was also programming that kept the numbers down. There was also too many fad bands and stale recurrents from STP, Bush, Nirvana, etc. It actually had better ratings when it was competing directly with WDRE (103.9).

Just because a station has a long history in the format doesn’t mean you can’t beat it. If you want an example new vs. established Alternative stations, just look at what’s been going on in San Diego. For a while, 91X was getting its butt kicked by a recent Alternative newcomer, FM949. It’s a classic rock radio battle between two stations, both with solid signals in the market.

 

[NotoriousN-I-K]

Re: Yep.

> In L.A. KROQ will always beat any competition, because most
> listeners and (diary keepers) don’t call it “Alternative,”
> they call it “KROQ Music.”
>
> I think the problem with WFNX in Boston is mostly the
> signal. It was mentioned that they’re going up an
> established station, but WFNX is one of the pioneering
> Alternative stations going back to the mid 80s (while WBCN
> was doing mainstream AOR).
>
> Y100 in Philly always had signal problems, but it was also
> programming that kept the numbers down. There was also too
> many fad bands and stale recurrents from STP, Bush, Nirvana,
> etc. It actually had better ratings when it was competing
> directly with WDRE (103.9).
>
> Just because a station has a long history in the format
> doesn’t mean you can’t beat it. If you want an example new
> vs. established Alternative stations, just look at what’s
> been going on in San Diego. For a while, 91X was getting
> its butt kicked by a recent Alternative newcomer, FM949.
> It’s a classic rock radio battle between two stations, both
> with solid signals in the market.
>
yeah but 91x isnt a really true example becuase they had lost focus for a LONG TIME and they like many alt stations had begun to lean very active rock, so although theyw ere still called 91x they werent really 91X anymore, Plus fm94.9 was able to capitolize on the fact that 91x was owned by clear channel and was "corproate', they used to run promos that talked about the clear channel practice of voice tracking, and that all of FM 949's jocks were actually there in San Diego, Truth is that most of 91x's were too but it didnt matter, it was about perception and fm 94.9 was able to reposition 91x as the big ciorproate station. which is why they brought Kevin Stapleford back to make them "weird" and alternative again and also remember that a good number of 91x's jocks from back in the day had crossed the street to FM94.9.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by NotoriousN-I-K on 02/21/06 11:02 PM.</FONT></P>