Ding. Ding! Obviously if it’s working for their radio stations, this is a moot point. i feel like many dislike the “alt” branding and is seen as a little pretentious. This reminds me of living in L.A. in 2008, and going through the whole “if it’s not indie, it’s not cool” phase. the true division of rock listeners started then. Those who appreciate hard rock were deemed satanic in comparison to those who listen to band of horses
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Alt 92.3 to Become WINS Simulcast
- Thread starter atthestars
- Start date
The fact is that Hispanics and Blacks account for nearly none of the listening to alternative rock stations. In Latin America, alternative is not particularly popular yet the more "classic" forms of rock are very well received (however, the fans of that music tend to be middle and upper income people who don't emigrate to the US).
There is no stratification for Asians in Nielsen, but we can guess based on alternative appeal in Asia that the music is not highly listened to by Asians and Asian Americans here.
So the conclusion is that the immense and overwhelming majority of alternative listeners are non-Hispanic white (note that nearly 80% of Hispanics in the Census of 2020 indicated "white" as their race).
Facebook is not a ratings system. It's a news source and is followed by listening, not posting to Facebook. In ratings, it is shown to have 1.5 million "followers".
Obviously, they feel that they can make up for the billing. They loose $10 million in gross billings, but that was not their profit after expenses. With the news simulcast, they have no added expenses and any revenue increase only has sales cost, not programming or administrative cost.
More than that, they apparently feel that alternative rock is highly fragmented and best left to streaming where everyone can customize their playlist. It does not look like a viable radio format for the future.
Among those over 50, Strait has some partisans. The other two swing even older.
But none represent a format core that could be successful in NYC.
Traditional country is not even particularly successful in Houston and Dallas, where 1990 to 2000 is more the core... Jo Dee Messina, not Hank and Lefty.
What was it about those years (like 2008-2013 or so) that made that subgroup (hipsters) so strong then? I remember pop music being particularly brash back then (LMFAO and Cher lloyd) so maybe that was it.
At some point, likely within the next decade, the AM band will be completely dead as a source of mainstream audio content. Yes, even senior citizens won't be listening in significant number by that point.
I think Audacy realizes that, long term, its news radio content needed to be made available on the FM dial to avoid losing the people who primarily use AM/FM radio as an information source in the car. With more and more listeners in prime demos using FM radio to enjoy NPR programming (many of whom likely never think of even using the AM band), perhaps Audacy also believes it can lure some of those listeners to WINS if it makes the brand available on FM.
Why invest in another attempted to rebuild for Alt 92.3 when (a) alternative rock has a multi-decade history of earning mostly "blah" ratings & revenue locally, (b) the younger adult demos who have traditionally patronized alternative rock are turning away from FM radio in increasing number over time, and (c) your cash flow generating newsradio franchise will be a "sitting duck" within the next several years if deprived of FM band access?
From a business standpoint, I think Audacy is making the right move here.
I think Audacy realizes that, long term, its news radio content needed to be made available on the FM dial to avoid losing the people who primarily use AM/FM radio as an information source in the car. With more and more listeners in prime demos using FM radio to enjoy NPR programming (many of whom likely never think of even using the AM band), perhaps Audacy also believes it can lure some of those listeners to WINS if it makes the brand available on FM.
Why invest in another attempted to rebuild for Alt 92.3 when (a) alternative rock has a multi-decade history of earning mostly "blah" ratings & revenue locally, (b) the younger adult demos who have traditionally patronized alternative rock are turning away from FM radio in increasing number over time, and (c) your cash flow generating newsradio franchise will be a "sitting duck" within the next several years if deprived of FM band access?
From a business standpoint, I think Audacy is making the right move here.
But David has said that, unless there is no FM alternative, users of Spanish-dominant listeners are unlikely to ever listen to AM. And certainly New York has plenty of FM alternatives!
AM is beyond saving. All that's left is an accelerating decline until it becomes a ghost, like shortwave.
Strait had hits well into the 2000s and is a staple of the gold library of most current hit country stations. But of course, you're right. There are people who like country music everywhere, and their sheer numbers in the New York market would dwarf entire populations of most American cities. The problem is finding advertisers who want to reach them and ad agency people who have the enthusiasm about the music to make advertisers change their minds about country music and country radio.
So did a person who called the station yesterday. Not only is she losing Alt 92.3, but she had already lost New York's Country 94.7. I can imagine how hard it must be for someone to lose two favorite radio stations in one year.
Some of more well known Alternative acts that had at least one Asian band member at some point were Silversun Pickups, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, The Pixies, Deftones, Linkin Park, Smashing Pumpkins.
Obviously that does not translate to actual listening or mass appeal listening among the demographic. But it’s worth noting I guess.
The best is when they then make excuses.
Like the when dentist et al said "Country will never come back to NY" after Y107 ended....then WNSH popped up.
Wow did the excuses fly over that.
This is purely anecdotal but when I was in high school the demos that listened to rock after whites were the Asians and Hispanics. A lot of bands had Asian and Hispanic members, sometimes they were even the singer. Rock had a universal appeal to it though especially with the Hispanics it was treated as an interchangeable genre with pop and such.
I feel like the schism that happened in the early 10’s hurt not just the rock formats but did a number on the audience. But it particularly hurt Alt as they chased the quirky pop songs while a lot of the listeners, young and old alike, just wanted to rock.
Part of it is also marketing. The labels prefer to push beat-heavy solo artists. There’s only one person they need to pay. Even quite a few bands are essentially one guy who hires touring members like Tame Impala. You don’t need to pay touring members royalties!
WNYL was probably still salvageable, KVIL was doing even worse in the Dallas billing and they bounced back. But KVIL took advantage of a unique implosion by a rival station to take their listeners. WNYL would have had a tougher and longer road to recovery.
I think someone will try Alt again in NYC. It’s probably the most viable rock format for the city as Alt tends to be more diverse in its offerings compared to Active Rock and AAA. (I am saying in terms of sound not race, though there have been a lot of black artists charting on Alt the last couple of years). I think if someone has a better plan than what Kaplan had we could see it be tried again, with better results.
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theres the public radio WFUV on 90.7 but NYC doesnt have a Mainstream or Active Rock in the market just retro focused WCBS-FM and Q104.3
Currently, the New York metro area has three Spanish-speaking AM stations. WADO is a TUDN-affiliated sports station, WWRV is an evangelical Protestant Christian station, and WJDM is a Catholic station. In the September radio ratings, WWRV (Radio Visión Cristiana) had 0.7 and WADO had 0.4. The fact that a noncommercial Christian station is doing better in the ratings than a commercial sports station says a lot about the state of Spanish-language radio on the AM band.
One of the downsides of NYC being NYC and being located in the NE, is there aren't really any good translators like other more compact markets in less densely-populated regions such as Austin, Las Vegas, and Portland where more niche formats can prosper without the burden of having to carrying the water for a full-market FM signal.
Univision is casting WADO aside, along with the rest of the driftwood in their radio chain, to a novice operator. It’s not terribly difficult to see why.
Brady said as much on the air; when they explained the move to him, he understood it and agrees with why it is happening. It doesn't suck any less for him and whatever people care about the station, but such is life... and such is the radio business.
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