AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES

[JohnnyElectron]

IMO, "Radio Disney" was the best thing that ever happened to AM radio 15 years ago. If 'forced' Mom & Dad to punch-up the AM button in their minivans, and Chrysler had some nice-sounding AM stereo radios in their 90's minivans, and many Disney stations were CQuam too.
Flash forward
15 years later Disney wrecked their RD stations with HD and Chrysler doesn't even offer an HD radio, so now the RD listening is done with Sirius/XM.

Regarding AM: 6am to noon Saturday mornings there are two brokered shows on a graveyard AM - BEST local progarmming on the air all week - so there is some benefit there - they provide niche music formats that you can't get anywhere else locally, not even XM / Sirius, as they still take requests too! Noon-1pm is a brokered Tex-Mex music program - once again, not offered by Sirius/XM or any other local station. Too bad that Clear Channel can't provide any of these 3 programs as a part of their station without charging $1000 an hour for a mid-market station!

 

[Savage]

Speaking of "anecdotal experience," congratulations on your new HD-equipped car. IIRC you like BMW which is one of the new marques installing factory radios with HD chipsets in them. As the BMW tech bulletins and message boards and various threads on radio-info.com bear witness, most people do not share your positive experiences with HD-AM. I would venture to say that most folks with HD-capable radios drive around with HD disabled, so they can enjoy reliable reception. Just because people unwittingly drive cars which happen to include unused or disused HD does not make it successful. Most who are aware of HD reject it, and not because of "the recession" (the latest HD copout) but because it doesn't work well. (The "recession" hasn't hurt successful technologies like the iPad, iPhone or Droid-generation devices.)

I would further characterize your experiences with HD as "variable." Notwithstanding your early-on support for HD, in the winter of 2010 you were posting here that you had recommended to your Board that HD be discontinued. Now you appear to be back in the HD camp, which is fine, but even your stance has been a little inconsistent.

Nor am I being suckered into changing the subject from HD's serial and constant failures to '"AM is dead" and "your station should never have been licensed." Not only should WYSL have been licensed, it was licensed. Our interference-free contour should be observed instead of finessed by the regulators who are supposed to be the EM spectrum traffic police, instead of playing third-world politics in favor of special interests.

 

[Savage]

Hit REPLY too soon. The last post should have read "BMW is one of the FEW marques," not "new marques." Now, on to the tired argument about how most AM's don't adequately cover their markets.

Certainly there are many older AM facilities which don't cover particularly well. I'm thinking about Class IV-graveyarders in big cities and some of those silly 10, 11 and 12-tower arrays. But writing off the entire band because some 60- and 70-year old facilities have had populations shift away from their contours is oversimplification and sophistry. It's also a typical copout for typical radio managers who don't understand or have interest in AM.

When I was 19 and working at my first 50kw AM I learned the truism, "every station has coverage problems SOMEwhere." It's as valid today as it was then, AM or FM. You can make money with stations that don't cover entire markets. It isn't as easy, but it can be done. I would disagree with the assertion that most AMs have inadequate coverage to provide any meaningful service.

If this weren't true you wouldn't have major groups tumbling all over each other and shelling out big bucks to put 99-watt translators on the air in big markets. You just scale the programming and the sales effort to the facility.

 

[davideduardo]

Certainly there are many older AM facilities which don't cover particularly well. I'm thinking about Class IV-graveyarders in big cities and some of those silly 10, 11 and 12-tower arrays. But writing off the entire band because some 60- and 70-year old facilities have had populations shift away from their contours is oversimplification and sophistry. It's also a typical copout for typical radio managers who don't understand or have interest in AM.

First, take into account that a long term study of a selection of Top 20 markets showed that AMs get about 95% of their AQH listening inside the 10 mVm contour, and there was not much change from the beginning of a 10 year period to the end.

Then, take into account that the recognized authority on station valuation and related matters considers that there are 161 viable AMs in the top 100 markets out of 1769 total AMs licensed within the geography of the MSA of those markets. That is more than one or two stations. That is 1600 non-viable stations vs. less than 200 viable ones.

A good example is Cleveland. One viable AM, WTAM. No other AM adequately covers the metro counties day and night. One comes close, another a little less and the rest are just inadequate. Another example is Washington, DC. No stations cover the metro day and night, explaining why Bonneville moved the WTOP format to FM. Or Phoenix, where two stations come close to total market coverage and no others come close. Or LA where big signals like the former KMPC 710 or KRLA 1110 (now Disney and ESPN) and 50 kw KTNQ miss very significant parts of the market due to directionality. There are only a handful of markets that have more than 2 viable signals, including San Francisco, Chicago and New York.

You can make money with stations that don't cover entire markets. It isn't as easy, but it can be done. I would disagree with the assertion that most AMs have inadequate coverage to provide any meaningful service.

In some cases, a temporary reprieve is granted because a group of listeners matches a bad signal. The KVNR signal in a community within the LA market perfectly matches the area in which the bulk of the lesser assimilated Vietnamese population lives. That extended the life of that station, long ago no longer viable in Spanish even, for a few more years. But it is still a "dead station walking."

And some of the ability of some to survive is based on a suburban or specialized client base that views AM positively (likely because they are older, too) and which buys as much from emotion as from logic.

If this weren't true you wouldn't have major groups tumbling all over each other and shelling out big bucks to put 99-watt translators on the air in big markets. You just scale the programming and the sales effort to the facility.

A good example of this sort of thing is WIOD in Miami which just did that. With 10 kw on 610 and a very light directional pattern, this is really the only full coverage AM in the Miami market. But, even with good coverage, the station was mired outside the top 20... nearer 25th in fact, in 25-54 listening and they figured that even a little bit of 25-54 from an FM was better than nothing. And that invites some kind of comparison to trying to patch the Hindenburg with a band-aid.

 

[davideduardo]

Speaking of "anecdotal experience," congratulations on your new HD-equipped car. IIRC you like BMW which is one of the new marques installing factory radios with HD chipsets in them. As the BMW tech bulletins and message boards and various threads on radio-info.com bear witness, most people do not share your positive experiences with HD-AM.

You know, because I have posted this several times before each time that urban legend gets posted, that I have asked about this with several service managers and customer reps at a major BMW dealer where I take my vehicles. None report having any negative (or, to be fair, positive) comments about HD.

I would venture to say that most folks with HD-capable radios drive around with HD disabled, so they can enjoy reliable reception.

I drive around a market that is anything but flat, and have no issues with HD on FM. I would say that it's not particularly effective for Class A's, just because A's in large metros are challenged as it is. As to AM, I've found the two good signals, KNX and KFI, have HD signals that are listenable and which don't cut out well beyond the point where man made noise destroys the listenability of the analog signal. The problem is that there are not many AMs that have a good enough signal to make HD work well.

Just because people unwittingly drive cars which happen to include unused or disused HD does not make it successful. Most who are aware of HD reject it, and not because of "the recession" (the latest HD copout) but because it doesn't work well. (The "recession" hasn't hurt successful technologies like the iPad, iPhone or Droid-generation devices.)

I thought I was clear that most of the reasons why HD was not viable had to do... and still have to do... with the budget cuts at just about every radio station and group in the country. This has meant that there is no money to develop really compelling HD niche services, so there is little reason in most markets to listen to HD.

The rest of the reasons have to do with the fact that people don't buy many radios of any kind today, of any kind.

I would further characterize your experiences with HD as "variable." Notwithstanding your early-on support for HD, in the winter of 2010 you were posting here that you had recommended to your Board that HD be discontinued. Now you appear to be back in the HD camp, which is fine, but even your stance has been a little inconsistent.

I still think that HD is a poor place to put resources when resources are tight throughout the industry. But not believing that HD merits the expense is not to say that the technology is not viable. I just would not add any additional technology to terrestrial signals of any kind if the money could be spent better elsewhere.

Nor am I being suckered into changing the subject from HD's serial and constant failures to '"AM is dead" and "your station should never have been licensed." Not only should WYSL have been licensed, it was licensed.

Unfortunately, the FCC set up a system that included Class IV stations, daytimers and things like the stations Robin Mathis built in Mississippi, 50 kw day and 250 w directional at night. Way too many stations in the US are evidence of how anyone who wants a station badly enough can end up with a bad radio station.

 

[caveman-97]

HD radio may well be the most wonderful invention since sliced bread but when all is said and done, the listening public will decide if it will be a winner.

Several months ago I went into a Best Buy store in Tucson and found an Insignia HD AM/FM tuner for a little over $100. I was thinking of buying it but decided not to. A couple weeks ago I returned to the same store and asked about the tuner. The clerk told me that his store no longer has it and he suggested that I try one of the Phoenix stores. He added that the Phoenix stations are doing more with HD so they might be more popular there. Just over a week ago, I toured a giant Fry's Electronics store just outside of Phoenix and looked all over for an HD radio. Couldn't find even one. Guys, this stuff just ain't selling. Nobody wants it. I found several internet receivers which apparently are selling.

Will young people listen to AM under any circumstances? The answer, once again, is that if you program something that some listeners really want, and that programming isn't available on FM, the AM station will be supported. Imagine yourself in Hong Kong. You tune all over the FM dial and get every kind of oriental programming the mind can imagine. You switch to AM and hear one station with American music in English. Your ears will be glued to it and it won't matter what your age is. Now imagine that you are Vietnamese and living in suburban Los Angeles. The Vietnamese station will be your best friend. Find your niche. Sports talk on the satellite probably isn't the answer.

 

[tomservo]

A good example is Cleveland. One viable AM, WTAM. No other AM adequately covers the metro counties day and night. One comes close, another a little less and the rest are just inadequate. Another example is Washington, DC. No stations cover the metro day and night, explaining why Bonneville moved the WTOP format to FM. Or Phoenix, where two stations come close to total market coverage and no others come close. Or LA where big signals like the former KMPC 710 or KRLA 1110 (now Disney and ESPN) and 50 kw KTNQ miss very significant parts of the market due to directionality. There are only a handful of markets that have more than 2 viable signals, including San Francisco, Chicago and New York.

That's all true enough for metro areas, but doesn't that leave out small towns that may only have an AM or an AM/FM combo as a local service? Seems like the AM can still be viable in those "in between" towns that are not served adequately by nearby metro signals.

I drive around a market that is anything but flat, and have no issues with HD on FM. I would say that it's not particularly effective for Class A's, just because A's in large metros are challenged as it is. As to AM, I've found the two good signals, KNX and KFI, have HD signals that are listenable and which don't cut out well beyond the point where man made noise destroys the listenability of the analog signal. The problem is that there are not many AMs that have a good enough signal to make HD work well.

True, but wouldn't you say that, man-made interference aside, LA is a pretty ideal AM market? That AM HD only works on the two biggest signals in a AM-friendly market speaks a lot about how fragile the system is. Put it in a market like Washington DC, Atlanta or Mobile and combine it with these markets propensity for summer thunderstorms and you've got a pretty useless system that will never decode when lightning is anywhere nearby.

 

[Savage]

David, the HD service bulletins from BMW are not an urban legend. I've seen them. Neither are the cautionary tech bulletins from Jaguar fiction. The cars come back with complaints about radio reception, and the fix is locking out the HD function. Briefly, while Jag was being sold to Tata of India, Ford retrofitted analog-only radios to stop the expensive claims in response to dealer pressure.

Google "BMW tech blogs" and "HD Radio."

Zach, I like your new sig!!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I don't think AM signals are quite as bad in Metro areas as has been suggested, except for increasing numbers of devices causing noise. The study is basically saying that unless you have a low dial position, 50 kW, and a "U1" nondirectional signal day and night, it doesn't cover the market and is not viable. There are markets that have so many counties included that no signal, AM or FM, adequately covers the market. And there are Class A FMs and 1 kW night Class B AMs that serve smaller markets well. Even a few PSSAs serve smaller market niche formats well. So I don't think that it is as bad as they are suggesting.

Most people with an iPod or MP3 player could create a better format that many of the HD-2 Music Formats. For one thing, they would have a larger playlist.

 

[badjef]

David, the HD service bulletins from BMW are not an urban legend.

I have a hard time believing they are false as well. The manufacturers are going all out For the audio experience in a new car. One of the main selling features is the "30 gig hard drive" and the quiet ride.

If the experience is not what the salesman claimed it was, They would be back at the very least with a clarification.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[JohnnyElectron]

I truly believe that they DON'T want a decent HD-2 product, as it draws away listeners from their main program on HD-1 : honest to gosh.
Same is true for HDTV. I contacted our FOX station and begged them to add "Antenna TV" as an HDTV-3 and he said: "Why?, don't you like what we have on our main channel?" to which I replied "Yes, I'd prefer a 'rerun' station of the classics and that means 'your' commenricals and not some cable system feed instead". I'm afraid it's the same with the HD-2 signals here in town: only Clear Channel uses them and all 3 of them are crap copies of the main channel with 40 songs - how about a totally new niche music format AND with a gigantic music library? I'd even listen to a "jack" type station WITH commercial spots IF they had a 4000 song library.
On FM, HD-2 COULD be a 'satellite radio killer' IF they had niche formats.
On AM, they have nothing to offer, as the station in town here that is HD doesn't bother to do stereo for their music. Ironically, it's a CC Fox Sports POS, BUT they broker it out for an obscene sum, and folks run niche music formats on it (imagine that) - maybe CC should take a hint and put these niche music programs on the HD2 instead? All brokered: weekdays, a 4 hour smooth jazz format for morning drive; then the graveyard AM-HD runs a 3-hour "50s-70s Pop/Classic Country" request show, then a 3 hour "big-band / standards show", then a 1 hour "Tex-Mex" music show - so there is room for MUSIC on AM, and in HD - and they could at least put it in stereo. CC should simulcast these shows on their HD-2's as well don't ya think?

 

[KB1OKL]

WFAN's senseless noisemaker was off last night again after the baseball game at least until 1 am ET, that makes three out of three times that I have tuned it in that it has been off this week.

 

[Savage]

In our local market there are, I think, TWO agency media buyers aware of HD Radio. They think HD makes newspaper publishers look absolutely prescient. One shrugs that she can't get HD to work reliably, and when it does work, she can't hear the difference. The other said, let me get this straight: your industry can't sell the ads on your MAIN channels, yet you want to triple the station population via HD - what, do you have a death wish??

I just can't believe how this preposterous idea, in concept or execution, has been allowed to go on as far and as long as it has. In every way possible, in terms of revenue, cost, strategy and engineering, it's boundlessly stupid. Thirty years ago, when stations were run by passionate, clever, committed managers who took pride in having technical knowledge and practical engineering experience, HD never would have seen the light of day.

 

[badjef]

I just can't believe how this preposterous idea, in concept or execution, has been allowed to go on as far and as long as it has. In every way possible, in terms of revenue, cost, strategy and engineering, it's boundlessly stupid. Thirty years ago, when stations were run by passionate, clever, committed managers who took pride in having technical knowledge and practical engineering experience, HD never would have seen the light of day.

Neither would the idea of dumping OTA TV.

It was done.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I just can't believe how this preposterous idea, in concept or execution, has been allowed to go on as far and as long as it has. In every way possible, in terms of revenue, cost, strategy and engineering, it's boundlessly stupid. Thirty years ago, when stations were run by passionate, clever, committed managers who took pride in having technical knowledge and practical engineering experience, HD never would have seen the light of day.

Neither would the idea of dumping OTA TV.

It was done.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[KeithE4]

Neither would the idea of dumping OTA TV.

It was done.

No it wasn't. I'm watching my local news on rabbit ears right now. Picture quality is much better than the old analog days. But that's a debate for the National TV board. ;D

 

[badjef]

Neither would the idea of dumping OTA TV.

It was done.

No it wasn't. I'm watching my local news on rabbit ears right now. Picture quality is much better than the old analog days. But that's a debate for the National TV board. ;D

Yes, it is! Try taking your TV to a ball game.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[KeithE4]

Neither would the idea of dumping OTA TV.

It was done.

No it wasn't. I'm watching my local news on rabbit ears right now. Picture quality is much better than the old analog days. But that's a debate for the National TV board. ;D

Yes, it is! Try taking your TV to a ball game.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

There are digital portables now, and I don't mean video-on-smartphones. I don't know how good or (probably) bad they are, but I've seen them for around $100. Standard-def, I assume.

And I never take a TV (or a radio for that matter) to a ballgame. ;D

 

[JohnnyElectron]

If the well-paid lobby from the cellphone monopolies get their way, there will be no more FREE OTA HDTV, or stations will have to share a single stick and 6MHz. This is bull crap.
Broadcasting is so much more efficient than a 1 to 1 CDMA digital cellphone signal, it isn't funny.
WE finally have a standard where you can watch your locats with a nice small VHF/UHF antenna in your attci; for free! Cable companies and cell phone technologies need to improve without stealing every inch of analog TV etc.

 

[KTN Corp]

Broadcasting is so much more efficient than a 1 to 1 CDMA digital cellphone signal, it isn't funny.

Who in their right mind would still use CDMA in this day and age?  I was just in the Philippines and all cell carriers are GSM.  It seems to be more consumer friendly there since the phone is separate from the service (the SIM card) rather than the monopolistic practice here in the U.S.

WE finally have a standard where you can watch your locats with a nice small VHF/UHF antenna in your attci; for free!  Cable companies and cell phone technologies need to improve without stealing every inch of analog TV etc.

It's sad that real OTA (analog) TV has been stolen from the public to support the anti-consumer vertical monopoly of the cell phone stores. The FM band (VHF II) may be next. We might be lucky if they would leave the AM band alone but their greedy hands may take that too (along with SW and LW)!