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AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES

WBZ is one of the worst out there for HD interference at night. From my location near Watertown, NY I am about equal distance from NYC and Boston which both throw great skywave signals my way. KDKA is inaudible most nights due to the IBOC noise from WBZ and also WINS. 1040 is just WBZ hash, I'd probably be able to get a listenable signal from WYSL even at only 500 watts. Heck, I can pull in 500 watt graveyarders from PA easily at night.

The funny thing is you have CBS owned 50kw CC stations that are hashing onto each other's signals. You have 1010 in NYC, 1020 in Philly and 1030 in Boston. These 3 stations would probably be listenable in all 3 markets at night with a decent radio that doesn't overload, but with IBOC I'm sure its a mess. And how far from the TX site is the HD signal reliable at night since it has to compete with the analog and HD signals of the others.

Why can't AM stations be like 740 out of Toronto. A 50kw station that sounds great in analog and I can still pull in WSB all the way from Georgia.
 
Pretty much the same here in northern VA: too much IBOC from WBZ, making WHO and KDKA barely audible at night. I often had to null out the IBOC pollution to hear KDKA. I once got the WHO calls on my XDR-F1HD's LCD display at night.
 
local oscillator said:
CBS reminds me of a stubborn, sniveling little kid who won't eat his vegetables, won't go to bed, and won't turn off his IBOC.
Click to expand...

In the old days, CBS would have gotten a spanking.

spunker88 said:
WBZ is one of the worst out there for HD interference at night. From my location near Watertown, NY I am about equal distance from NYC and Boston which both throw great skywave signals my way. KDKA is inaudible most nights due to the IBOC noise from WBZ and also WINS. 1040 is just WBZ hash, I'd probably be able to get a listenable signal from WYSL even at only 500 watts. Heck, I can pull in 500 watt graveyarders from PA easily at night.

The funny thing is you have CBS owned 50kw CC stations that are hashing onto each other's signals. You have 1010 in NYC, 1020 in Philly and 1030 in Boston. These 3 stations would probably be listenable in all 3 markets at night with a decent radio that doesn't overload, but with IBOC I'm sure its a mess. And how far from the TX site is the HD signal reliable at night since it has to compete with the analog and HD signals of the others.

Why can't AM stations be like 740 out of Toronto. A 50kw station that sounds great in analog and I can still pull in WSB all the way from Georgia.
Click to expand...

In the old days, circa 1960, WINS, KDKA, and WBZ (all Westinghouse stations at the time) all realized that they had a skywave adjacent channel interference problem, with just analog alone, and experimented with Leonard Kahn's Full Carrier Compatible Single Sideband, the forerunner of Kahn AM Stereo and Powerside.
 
Introducing the HD Radio board COTUS Shorthand Program (Convenience Of The Usual Suspects.)

In answer to the foregoing posts, you can now save valuable typing time by simply making your choice from the following talking-point stock arguments:

A. You're not supposed to be listening outside the station's protected contour.
B. I know, I know - there's no rule, regulation or policy regarding (A) but I like it anyway.
C. DXers don't support broadcasting.
D. Many local AM stations should never have been licensed anyway.
E. Especially WYSL since its owner is a vocal IBOC critic.
F. I don't hear any nighttime interference.
G. There's so much manmade electronic interference, what's the harm in a little IBOC anyway?
H. AM stations derive no revenue from distant service (despite evidence to the contrary.)
I. You can get WSM online, so you don't need skywave service.
J. Same deal with MLB, NFL football, or any other sports coverage.

I'm sure we'll think of more. To reply in knee-jerk pro-HD fashion while at the same time avoiding bordeom and redundancy, simply type your choice COTUS codes. If appropriate, you can enter this special code:

704: I'm really not pro-HD. I have no dog in the fight. It really doesn't matter to me one way or another. Even though I've posted ELEVEN THOUSAND times on the subject.

Thanks in advance for using the time-saving COTUS system! Please post again soon!
 
Here at 40 miles east of WBZ it is a noisy hissy mess, sounds like krap on an analog radio and doesn't even come in that well anymore. I got it in glorious IBOC on my vaunted Sony tuner several times for brief periods of time, it was all treble and sounded very unnatural.
I have written to Mark Manuelian chief engineer several times over the past few years complaining about it, he has usually replied about how they're never going to shut it off, how wonderful it is etc, the last time I wrote him I said something to the effect of now that IBOC is a proven utter failure when are they going to shut it off? No reply. I'll have to try again this week.
 
mmnassour said:
Interesting....I'd like to know the last AM to turn ON the HD buzz saw and when that was, anyone know?
Click to expand...

Well, it's more like they turned the 'off' off... WRVA 1140 is running IBOC at night the last couple of weeks, not just daytime only.
 
Yeah - WRVA transmitting digital 24hrs a day is a big disappointment but, they are owned by Clear Channel.

KDKA and WRVA have stopped it altogether but I'm hesitant to mention it for fear that it will change.

Ibiquity is hanging by a thread on AM but the thread won't break.
 
I mean to say KDKA (Pittsburgh, PA) and WWVA (Wheeling WV) are off.

It does help to send in reports to stations complaining, at least to some degree.

I understand KDKA's had lots of complaints that's why they've shut it down - at least for the time being. There currently in dispute with WBZ - which we all know is a huge unashamed offender.
 
I think WWVA has had its HD off since the tower collapse last summer. Although I think they are back to 50kw now on new towers, but if they still have the same transmitter then wouldn't they be able to use HD without investing anything. Because I know some AMs are to the point where they are running HD until it dies and then going analog only.

The funniest thing many noticed when WWVA was on low power was that WHAM on adjacent 1180 in Rochester turned off its HD at night when the WWVA towers collapsed and last I checked they still were. Its almost like Clear Channel admitting that HD causes interference to adjacent channels especially via skywave. And they are perfectly fine jamming lower powered adjacents, as long as its not one of their own.
 
Pittsburgh is CBS Radio's smallest market. They don't care about KDKA, and the persistent rumor is they'll dump the market as soon as the economy improves enough that they wouldn't have to sell there at fire-sale prices. That's why CBS doesn't care that WBZ-HD skywave is killing KDKA in Crafton Borough, about 6 miles from downtown Pittsburgh, despite KDKA's 50kw transmitter being only 4 miles away. KDKA is regularly trumped in local ratings by CC's FM talker WPGB.

What CBS is frowning about, however, is the skywave interference being delivered to WBZ is Western Massachusetts and other Boston metro counties from KDKA-HD at night. WBZ is a CBS cash cow, still its market leader and some kind of idiotic show horse for HD-AM Radio (which is kind of like having the coolest 8-track player among all your dorky friends. Or the fastest Commodore 64 computer.) So: off with KD's hiss, and the March To Oblivion continues in Boston.
 
spunker88 said:
I think WWVA has had its HD off since the tower collapse last summer. Although I think they are back to 50kw now on new towers, but if they still have the same transmitter then wouldn't they be able to use HD without investing anything. Because I know some AMs are to the point where they are running HD until it dies and then going analog only.

The funniest thing many noticed when WWVA was on low power was that WHAM on adjacent 1180 in Rochester turned off its HD at night when the WWVA towers collapsed and last I checked they still were. Its almost like Clear Channel admitting that HD causes interference to adjacent channels especially via skywave. And they are perfectly fine jamming lower powered adjacents, as long as its not one of their own.
Click to expand...
As long as they don't think the buzz "WHAM"ed the WWVA towers down...

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
Savage said:
Pittsburgh is CBS Radio's smallest market. They don't care about KDKA, and the persistent rumor is they'll dump the market as soon as the economy improves enough that they wouldn't have to sell there at fire-sale prices.
Click to expand...

Where do you get your stuff?

The Palm Springs market is CBS's smallest, along with Victor Valley, CA. Those are markets 117 and 132

Pittsburgh is market 25. CBS is also in Riverside, #26, Sacramento, #27, Cleveland, #29, Las Vegas, #33, Orlando, #35, West Palm Beach, # 48, Hartford, #50, and the two CA markets just mentioned.

Fully a quarter of all CBS stations are in markets the size of Pittsburgh or smaller.
 
L. DeForest said:
I understand KDKA's had lots of complaints that's why they've shut it down - at least for the time being. There currently in dispute with WBZ - which we all know is a huge unashamed offender.
Click to expand...

How can KDKA and WBZ be "in a dispute" if they are owned, both, by CBS?
 
I've talked with the engineering people at KDKA - that's how I know. I also know of the numerous complaints they've received from listeners that hear WBZ interference that starts in the late afternoon and continues throughout the night - every night. It's real obvious here in Southwest PA. It's an amazing clear example of how the system is failing.

FYI - Not everyone, even those presumed to be on the same side, feel all warm and fussy about digital radio. Just in case you've forgotten that . BTW Eduardo - how's retirement?
 
I stand corrected on the matter of the size of CBS Radio markets. The salient point is that Pittsburgh is a much smaller market and of less concern to the company than is Boston. Therefore if the marvels of HD-AM must be denied to a CBS property in order to protect a bigger one (from interference the company has repeatedly insists doesn't exist) that means Pittsburgh has to yield. (While accepting roaring interference to reward its forbearance.)

And Dr. DeForest is correct. My sources say that the KDKA people have been very unhappy about the interference - in their local market, well within 1020's protected contour - from WBZ-HD.

The whole point in this discussion is the manifest absurdity over a digital-hybrid transmission system which is so defective, it forces owners to pick winners and losers among their own properties. Meanwhile CBS repeatedly lies about the skywave interference problem when it hurts non-CBS stations; the cynicism and lack of candor is knee-deep. Now CBS has to play the less-than-zero-sum game of vicitimizing the historic first commercial radio property in the country, just to serve eleven HD listeners in Boston with a lousy-sounding coverage-challenged artifact-choked digital signal.

And for which you can't even buy a new receiver any more. Sheer genius!
 
audioguy said:
While we're at it, looks like not even the FCC is "warm and fussy" about HD-AM. It appears they just took a shot at Radio Disney: http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-307831A1.html
Click to expand...

This sounds like a case where the encoder has gone extra wide with the "sparklies" way off to both sides, as KFUO-AM did,
or something at least as bad.

I wonder who complained, and how far off in frequency they were getting QRMd from.
 
Savage said:
I stand corrected on the matter of the size of CBS Radio markets. The salient point is that Pittsburgh is a much smaller market and of less concern to the company than is Boston. Therefore if the marvels of HD-AM must be denied to a CBS property in order to protect a bigger one (from interference the company has repeatedly insists doesn't exist) that means Pittsburgh has to yield. (While accepting roaring interference to reward its forbearance.)

And Dr. DeForest is correct. My sources say that the KDKA people have been very unhappy about the interference - in their local market, well within 1020's protected contour - from WBZ-HD.

The whole point in this discussion is the manifest absurdity over a digital-hybrid transmission system which is so defective, it forces owners to pick winners and losers among their own properties. Meanwhile CBS repeatedly lies about the skywave interference problem when it hurts non-CBS stations; the cynicism and lack of candor is knee-deep. Now CBS has to play the less-than-zero-sum game of vicitimizing the historic first commercial radio property in the country, just to serve eleven HD listeners in Boston with a lousy-sounding coverage-challenged artifact-choked digital signal.

And for which you can't even buy a new receiver any more. Sheer genius!
Click to expand...

It just seems so stupid that a media company would willingly ruin their own signal in another market. WBZ is already on 98.5 HD-3, why not just market this as your HD signal with "clear sound". Instead they have 1030 HD and 98.5 HD-3 which will probably confuse people more than anything since the HD radio novice will have no idea which signal they should tune. I have no idea how well 98.5's HD signal covers downtown Boston, but It just seems stupid to keep running HD on 1030.

I just went to WBZ 1030's website and can't find a thing promoting HD radio. Between 98.5 HD-3 and the fact that people have smartphones which can webstream I think they would have the digital users covered just fine.
 
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