AM HD TURNOFF PACE ACCELERATES

[badjef]

On the "same but different" note, I just got the gigaware HD radio add-on to my iPad. It is FM only and also works with an iPod and iPhone. It is also a portable type of a device where the antenna is the wire of the headphone or in my case, the jumper to the software defined radio's jack.

But it is FM only.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[badjef]

On the "same but different" note, I just got the gigaware HD radio add-on to my iPad. It is FM only and also works with an iPod and iPhone. It is also a portable type of a device where the antenna is the wire of the headphone or in my case, the jumper to the software defined radio's jack.

But it is FM only.

Oh, I forgot to mention, it was in the "clearance rack" at Radio Shack.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[KB1OKL]

I don't want to get too excited but WFAN 660's hash machine has been off two nights in a row now at night. Not sure about daytime.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Maybe they figured out that they were interfering with themselves (WSCR 670 Chicago) like WABC and WJR did, and WRVA and WDFN, WISN, and KFAN did. Was it during PBP? Lots of stations turn it off during PBP.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

I think this has been mentioned before - but it bears repeating.

CBS Radio (parent company of WFAN and WCCO) will not get rid of HD on AM for one simple reason.

Glynn Walden - CBS corporate director of engineering - is one of the ones responsible for the AM-IBOC system. As such, he has a vested interest in keeping the system in place.

 

[Savage]

And Dan Mason, corporately clueless president of CBS, is Walden's IBOC co-conspirator. They are both former top iBiquity executives just prior coming to CBS. As part of their departure from iBiquity they likely got big chunks of stock and God knows what other financial perks, so they'll keep trashing their own signals and that of other broadcasters until someone compels them to stop.

 

[Tom Wells]

WSCR 670 Chicago
is still clean as of this morning, so we're over a month of downtime on the HD....seems a bit long
for getting around to trying it again. Only time will tell. They sound really fine the way the are now.

 

[davideduardo]

And Dan Mason, corporately clueless president of CBS, is Walden's IBOC co-conspirator. They are both former top iBiquity executives just prior coming to CBS. As part of their departure from iBiquity they likely got big chunks of stock and God knows what other financial perks, so they'll keep trashing their own signals and that of other broadcasters until someone compels them to stop.

Dan Mason started as a jock in Atlanta, ended up as PD at WPGC before becoming a national PD for PGC's owners. He soon became, at age 27, the GM of KTSA in San Antonio.

He was later the head of Westinghouse's broadcast division, surely among the finest radio companies to exist pre-consolidation. He was in charge of the CBS Westinghouse Infinity merger, and was head of Infinity until 2002 when he retired and did consullting...

http://www.sabomason.com/dan_mason_bio.php

During the 2003-2007 period, Mason did consulting, including a partnership with Walt Sabo and the clients ranged from CBS to SBS to iBiquity and Sirius and many, many others (see the Sabo Media site).

Mason was never an employee of iBiquity, and to call him clueless is to negate volumes of success stories programming, running and managing some of the demonstrably best stations in the US.

Talk about "clueless..."

 

[davideduardo]

Even with the software defined radios, the AM sound is still lacking in the quality. I remember AM radio having the capability of a much higher fidelity.

I remember putting on my first FM in 1966 in a market where there was no other FM before it. And I remember listening and thinking, "this is eventually going to bring down AM because AM sounds so bad compared to FM." Within a year, I had 5 FMs on the air.

 

[badjef]

Even with the software defined radios, the AM sound is still lacking in the quality. I remember AM radio having the capability of a much higher fidelity.

I remember putting on my first FM in 1966 in a market where there was no other FM before it. And I remember listening and thinking, "this is eventually going to bring down AM because AM sounds so bad compared to FM." Within a year, I had 5 FMs on the air.

David, with all due respect, I said, "I remember AM radio having the capability of a much higher fidelity." I did not say it sounded better than FM.

To toss AM broacasting in the waste basket of technology, would be akin to turning off all the OTA's in favor of internet listening. Each has its own distinct characteristics.

By your own admission, the observation was 45 years ago. AM is still around.

Sounds as though FM does not have a very healthy future, eh?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[davideduardo]

By your own admission, the observation was 45 years ago. AM is still around.

Hardly.

Canada has eliminated over half its AMs, and Mexico is well on its way to eliminating 70% of them. Countries from South Africa to Jamaica to Austria have essentially eliminated AM or limited it to very niche purposes.

In the US, these PPM markets have less than 10 shares... and most are less than a 5 share under age 55. Charlotte, Greensboro, Houston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Nashville, Norfolk, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Phoenix, Providence, Raleigh, the Palm Beaches and DC.

I'd say that a few AM stations are still successful, but AM is definitely on the wane.

 

[badjef]

By your own admission, the observation was 45 years ago. AM is still around.

Hardly.

Canada has eliminated over half its AMs, and Mexico is well on its way to eliminating 70% of them. Countries from South Africa to Jamaica to Austria have essentially eliminated AM or limited it to very niche purposes.

In the US, these PPM markets have less than 10 shares... and most are less than a 5 share under age 55. Charlotte, Greensboro, Houston, Indianapolis, Las Vegas, Nashville, Norfolk, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Phoenix, Providence, Raleigh, the Palm Beaches and DC.

I'd say that a few AM stations are still successful, but AM is definitely on the wane.

Yes, and after 12noon, the sun goes down.

As long as the ones around are financially viable, AM stations will still be around.
As far as the rest of the world goes, I don’t care what they do. They have different circumstances that will change the solution to their own “Rubic’s Cube.”

As long as the programming I want to listen to is on an AM station, I will listen to it on AM. When it gravitates to FM or other current or future medium, I will listen.

If it were on Short Wave, I’d be listening that way.

I only have to turn a switch on (sometimes), change the station (I don’t have to wait for it to buffer), and adjust the volume to a comfortable listening level.

Make listening more difficult, and you’ve lost me. (It explains HD-x’s and internet radios)

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Savage]

And given the incredibly lackluster, not to say repellent programming typically found on AM, that's no surprise. In many - if not most markets literally one AM station is actually listenable. The rest offer brokered, ethnic, or religious narrowcasting on frequently badly-maintained signals operating with reduced power, restricted bandwidth, patterns seriously out of parameters, or the favorite of the IBOC crowd: "dead air" (sometimes for days at a time.)

Don't blame the band. Blame the hapless miserable excuse that passes for "radio management" at most clusters these days.(*) Clear out the deadwood, get some traditional real-radio programmers in there, clean up the signals and turn off the HD noise and watch the audience come back.

It's like having a restaurant that serves only dog food and declaring "nobody goes out to eat at sit-down restaurants any more."

(*) See my comments, this thread, under the topic "the second Canadian station to broadcast in HD."

Footnote to I love debate, I just hate AM "Eduardo" - this is the HD Radio thread....last I checked....

 

[davideduardo]

And given the incredibly lackluster, not to say repellent programming typically found on AM, that's no surprise. In many - if not most markets literally one AM station is actually listenable. The rest offer brokered, ethnic, or religious narrowcasting on frequently badly-maintained signals operating with reduced power, restricted bandwidth, patterns seriously out of parameters, or the favorite of the IBOC crowd: "dead air" (sometimes for days at a time.)

If you look at the technical facilities, you find that in the Top 100 Markets there are only about 150 stations cover their markets with a usable signal day and night... that is 1.5 stations per market on average. If you reduce the criteria to 100% day and 80% of the population by night, we get to about 190 stations.

The reason why there is not much beyond the first, or maybe the first two AMs it's because the rest of them can't compete based on signal. Blame the FCC... they began the weird localism concept back in the 30s when cities had not gone suburban and there was effective enforcement of the man made interference rules.

Don't blame the band.

Yes, it was a wonderful band for a bout 40 years, but then other, mostly better, options began arriving.

Four pound black rotary phones hard wired to the wall were neat at some point in time. And they still might work, but nobody wants one unless they run a museum.

Blame the hapless miserable excuse that passes for "radio management" at most clusters these days.(*)

If a manager has a facility that was outgrown by the market back in the 50's and 60's and whose coverage is less each year that passes due to higher and higher man made noise levels, that person can only opt for a niche format or something else that produces revenues without depending on ratings.

Clear out the deadwood, get some traditional real-radio programmers in there, clean up the signals and turn off the HD noise and watch the audience come back.

It's funny that a lot of the still-successful AMs also are running HD. I don't think it makes much of a difference even though I don't see the value for AM. Putting some new radials in the ground is not going to change the fact that most AM stations can't compete, no matter what they do.

Blaming HD for any part of the ongoing decline in AM usage is disingenuous.

 

[Savage]

HD Radio on the AM band is a kluged, glitchy semi-functional mess which was launched for reasons of political correctness as opposed to accomplishing anything productive. As such it's not surprising that HD-AM has totally failed in the marketplace. You can't even buy a new HD-AM capable radio any more.

Of course HD has worsened AM's fortunes instead of representing a solution. That the interference is terrible is beyond serious dispute. The interference to host stations and distant adjacents is indisputable.

Literally the only entities still employing HD-AM are those who have it in pursuit of some personal or professional agenda. It has nothing to do with trying to attract an audience.

 

[davideduardo]

You can't even buy a new HD-AM capable radio any more.

Strange, I got one about a month ago. It came wrapped in a dashboard. The AM HD works fine.

in case you have not noticed, its harder and harder to find a stand-alone radio of any kind today. Except for those crank-em emergency radios, many "Radio" shacks have no radios in them, and they are trying to eliminate the word "radio" from their name as sounding dated.

Of course HD has worsened AM's fortunes instead of representing a solution. That the interference is terrible is beyond serious dispute. The interference to host stations and distant adjacents is indisputable.

I'm sure that the issues you have with WBZ are quite real. My opinion, as I have said before, is that operations such as your night facility should never have been licensed. I have considerable doubts, and always have, about the licensing of daytimers, too. The US is about the only place in the world that allowed that.

Literally the only entities still employing HD-AM are those who have it in pursuit of some personal or professional agenda. It has nothing to do with trying to attract an audience.

And I have said that the window for HD has likely closed... it probably closed as the recession began.

 

[caveman-97]

AM HD probably doesn't hurt the station doing it much but it does damage other stations on adjacent channels. It also makes the entire band less attractive to listeners what with all that noise.

Regarding AM's general decline, I'm reminded of something that I witnessed in the early 1980s, a time when FM was solidly atop AM all over the nation. At that time I was hanging around with some young people of Mexican heritage in Tucson. Rich Robbin was programming KHYT, an AM on 1330 and he chose a dance music format which no FM in the market was doing. These kids would get into my car and notice that I was listening to music on FM. The first words I'd hear were, "How do you switch this to AM?"

The moral of the story is that people would much rather hear their favorite music in mono and with a little noise than listen to music that they don't particularly like, noise-free and in stereo. The name of the game is to find programming that is in demand and not available on FM. The answer is not to plug in the satellite and be yet another sports talk, right wing political talk or religious station. Put a little effort into finding your niche; as you sew so shall you reap.

 

[davideduardo]

Regarding AM's general decline, I'm reminded of something that I witnessed in the early 1980s, a time when FM was solidly atop AM all over the nation. At that time I was hanging around with some young people of Mexican heritage in Tucson. Rich Robbin was programming KHYT, an AM on 1330 and he chose a dance music format which no FM in the market was doing. These kids would get into my car and notice that I was listening to music on FM. The first words I'd hear were, "How do you switch this to AM?"

Those young people who still remembered AM as an alternative are now approaching 60 and anyone younger simply is not accustomed to AM usage for anything other than sports and, perhaps, some news.

The moral of the story is that people would much rather hear their favorite music in mono and with a little noise than listen to music that they don't particularly like, noise-free and in stereo.

And, speaking of Mexico, that nation is well along in moving as many as 75% of all its Am stations to FM following a senate decree that AM was not viable in the future and the jobs and economic activity of AM operations should be afforded an opportunity to move to FM.

 

[BRNout]

AM HD probably doesn't hurt the station doing it much but it does damage other stations on adjacent channels. It also makes the entire band less attractive to listeners what with all that noise.

It does restrict the analog audio of the station doing the polluting. The audio sounds thinner and less robust than without the bandwidth restriction that "IBOC" imposes on that analog portion of the transmission.

Those young people who still remembered AM as an alternative are now approaching 60 and anyone younger simply is not accustomed to AM usage for anything other than sports and, perhaps, some news.

David, that is an exaggeration. I am in my mid 40s and very well remember when most people listened to AM top 40 stations. And when most radios that a kid would have did not offer FM (because they were cheap). As a result, most of my early listening (and there was a lot of it) was to AM. We had an FM radio in the car, but that's because my dad liked gadgets. Most of my friends' cars still offered AM only. This trend did change by the late 1970s, but at that time anyone who is 60 now would have been in their late 20s.

Likewise, I had a black and white TV in my room as a kid and was lucky/spoiled to have my own TV. The color TV was downstairs. Yes, color overtook black and white a good 10 years before that era; but many people still had black and white TVs because they were affordable. I bought my first color TV (that was actually mine) in 1982. It cost $300 and was a 16", IIRC. AM radio was like that. Yes, FM was surging during the 70s - but a lot of people still listened to AM because AM radios were cheap, portable and ubiquitous. That was over by 1980 when the cost of FM dropped to the point where every little radio offered it too.

You are a little off in your math. Not totally wrong (unfortunately) but the math is.

 

[davideduardo]

It does restrict the analog audio of the station doing the polluting. The audio sounds thinner and less robust than without the bandwidth restriction that "IBOC" imposes on that analog portion of the transmission.

The standards committee headed by Bob Orban showed that any audio bandwidth above around 5 to 6 kHz does not enhance listening on the immense bulk of consumer AM radios, so your point here is lacking in real world relevance.

David, that is an exaggeration. I am in my mid 40s and very well remember when most people listened to AM top 40 stations. And when most radios that a kid would have did not offer FM (because they were cheap). As a result, most of my early listening (and there was a lot of it) was to AM. We had an FM radio in the car, but that's because my dad liked gadgets. Most of my friends' cars still offered AM only. This trend did change by the late 1970s, but at that time anyone who is 60 now would have been in their late 20s.

Probably facts are better than anecdotes...

Houston, market 6.
AM share of listening
Persons 55 and over: 23% average share of all radio listening, 6 AM to Midnight Mon-Sun
Persons 65 and over: 29%
Persons 55-64: 19.2%
Persons 45-54: 8.3%
Persons 35-44: 5.8%
Persons 25-34: 3.5%
Persons 18-24: 1.1%

So, what we see is the product of the FM generations, now two of them, having grown up with the best music found on FM... and that started in the very early 70's, or about 40 years ago. Anyone under 50 to 55 had little enduring AM experience as we saw time after time how pop music stations that appeared on FM took the AM audience, often by storm.

Since no teens had cars before age 16 at least, that meant that whether there was an FM car radio or not certainly did not influence anyone under 52 or 53. Since most teens did not have cars till much later, the car issue is almost a moot point for anyone under 55. And since, at that time, less than 30% of radio listening was in the car, overemphasizing car radio issues does not get to the real point, which is that AM was abandoned over 30 years ago by music listeners due to the quality of FM and other factors such as format variety. It has nothing to do with HD/IBOC, NRSC, today's crop of managers, etc. And it really has little to do with man made noise, other than the fact that there are, today, more reasons why more AMs are not viable in any format.

Yes, FM was surging during the 70s - but a lot of people still listened to AM because AM radios were cheap, portable and ubiquitous. That was over by 1980 when the cost of FM dropped to the point where every little radio offered it too.

FM reached the tipping point in 1977 when it exceeded half of all listening. But in the younger demos, the scale had tipped in most markets well before that... in some cases, half the 18-34 and teen listening was on FM as early as '72 or '73. It does not matter what radios cost... what matters is that people who are now in their early to mid 50's either abandoned AM early on or never had a lasting passion for an AM station.

If you look at persons 18-34 in our large sample market, of those who did use AM, nearly three times as many listened for less than an hour a day as those who listened over an hour. In other words, the use of AM by under-34's is for the most part "accidental" in the PPM world.

You are a little off in your math. Not totally wrong (unfortunately) but the math is.

The usage figures do not make a case for your anecdotal experience.