AM proc how to do it

[jimmyfish]

Hi guys,

I need help on making an AM sound good. I am thinking a compellor in front of maybe An Orban 9100, 9200 or a Gregg Labs am processor (if I could get one) or Omnia's 5ex am. I also want a slight hint of reverb. should the verb unit go first, somewhere in the middle or last in the chain? I am not an engineer and I can't hang with you guys, but maybe you can help me understand. I would think if you put the reverb in front, the boxes would try to bring up the reverb, thus creating a bad artifact? Format is Southern gospel/insp. music and talk. I would like a lot of level control and a sound like the old WNBC of the 60s/70s maybe. Like I said, I don't really know what I am talking about and would like to hear some ideas and an answer on the reverb question.

Thanks

 

[Studio1]

I would avoid reverb. You will end up with something that sounds like you are broadcasting from inside a tunnel.

Yes to the Compellor.

You'd be surprised how good a sound you can get from a Compellor followed by a Dominator. It's clean and easy.

Alternatively, find an AM Optimod.

I don't like digital so I can't recommend or comment on any of the other items you have listed, sorry.

 

[gtomas]

You'd be surprised how good a sound you can get from a Compellor followed by a Dominator. It's clean and easy.

Never liked Dominator, though to be honest I used it only for FM. Too busy, no dedicated pre-emphasis management and pumps if you don't disable the ALT control... Which is there just to prevent overload of a clipper, which being a simple diode clipper can't handle much than a small amount of overshoots. The crossover is also not "peachy"...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[amfmsw]

There's nothing wrong with inserting reverb into the chain, just don't go heavy handed with it. If you go with it, you need to decide if you want it to cover ALL audio (music too), or just the microphones. If you just do mics, you'll need to put a unit on the production mic too.

The Orban and the Omnia are excellent units for AM, but trust using the pre-programmed format settings. They're pretty good. You can slightly lift or cut EQ as needed for comensation for old equipment or Directional Array. You do NOT need an Aphex unit ahead of them. The Omnia and Orban are much quicker and more sophisticated than the Compellor. Use the compellor in your production room, as it's technology is 25 years old. It defeats the purpose of the modern big rigs, which already do everything the Compellor does, only better.

If you're building on the cheap (and mono with no forsight to IBOC HD), check the net and Radio World for used CRL units. They too are older technology, but can allow you to tweak and push your sound without taxing an older transmitter to tears (or smoke), and you'll stand out loud and proud for just a few hundred bucks.

 

[Robert Bass]

Unless your listeners are digging tunnels and spending most of their time listening to your station in a tunnel, reverb is a bad idea. Do you really want the average Joe cruising down the highway to feel like he's in a tunnel?

I have never liked reverb in the airchain. If the music already has reverb, you're just making it worse.

R

 

[wgliradio]

Used right, reverb on AM can sound great. Sadly, most people don't know how to do it right and most stations end up as these thick messes.

 

[sparks794]

The AM's that I have worked for have used a wide variety of "stuff". I think that the best sounding have been the ones using the Optimod 9100. Simple and dual tx feeds.

 

[radiorob2.0]

Reverb can be your friend if used correctly. It can add depth to a heavily processed signal. You can aim for Musicradio WABC but just a little reverb in a small dose will be like audio spice; not to overwhelming but enough to add to the presentation.

 

[jimmyfish]

Exactly what I am looking for! Thanks for the comments and tips. Seems as if we are split on the reverb thing, with one thing that is for sure and that is not much, probably not enough to notice, but that is easier said than done I am sure. I would think that you would want it down the chain though.

 

[Robert Bass]

Why do stations spend thousands and thousands of dollars to soundproof the studio, only later install a $500 reverb unit? : You might as well rip out the soundproofing.

R

 

[radiorob2.0]

Of course, all you technically need is just a limiter in front of the transmitter.

 

[wgliradio]

Why do stations spend thousands and thousands of dollars to soundproof the studio, only later install a $500 reverb unit? : You might as well rip out the soundproofing.

R

The sound of a reverb unit is a repeatable effect and the type of effect you can't get from a live room. You want a clean path, a tight sounding mic and a little splash of the right TYPE of reverb. Hell, even WABC can't get it right on Saturday night, the reverb is a mess and needs to be inserted IN the processing path (between stages) which means that unless you're running a studio AGC, forget it with a one solution digital box.

You also need just the right attack and decay and the emphasis on just the right frequencies... things you cannot control time and time again in a lively room.

Reverb is a special trick that I think only some parts of the country embrace and only for certain formats.

 

[jimmyfish]

You might be right about certain parts of the country that were exposed to it (L.A.,NYC ect) I don't think any station has ever had it in this market and it may not be right for a talk/Gospel format. I am not set on it, just wondering if the least little bit would thicken things a bit. I wanted it on everything, not just the mic btw. I was also going for the sound of the old WNBC of the 60s/70s, not today (as I have not heard it). Thanks again for all the tips. I will let you know how it is coming when I fianlly get my hands on it.

 

[Studio1]

You'd be surprised how good a sound you can get from a Compellor followed by a Dominator. It's clean and easy.

Never liked Dominator, no dedicated pre-emphasis management...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

The Dominator 723 (I have one here) has a built in pre-emphasis circuit which can be de-emphasised before it leaves the unit, if necessary (if you are using it for straight audio processing etc).

Agreed it can suffer from pumping if you don't set it up right.. if the release is too fast it will do that.

Sure, it's not an Optimod but if you don't have a huge budget it works quite well.

 

[menotti1]

Best AM processor i ever used was the Harris MSP-100 (not the MSP95) with folded unipole antenna.Just incredible sound.wasn't cheap in 1979 (5495.00) Very hard to find one today.It smoked the competition's Orban and the other stations CRL.

 

[littlejohn]

The two problems I ran into with the MSP100 were, first it took a while to set up - EVERYthing was adjustable. Second, due to the use of some consumer grade components, it never held the set more than a month or so... you had to continually go back and retweak the thing. For its day, though, it had some promise... mostly because everything was adjustable.

 

[menotti1]

never had to re-tweak, but i worked awhile to get the CHR format sounding right .But once i hit the sweet spot, that box cooked...Not sure if Harris made it or someone else. when the competing AM heard it (they had the CRL) the owner came over and said what the heck are you running..It was a tweakers dream come true, but it took time to get it right.

 

[jimmyfish]

LittleJohn. If you are Jeff, I met you a few times when I worked for Kiss in Cincy. I was always that jock that respected the engineers and it pays off!

 

[littlejohn]

Not me. Met the gent a couple times, at cons and whereever. And used to borrow Steve Davis' scoot when he was 'the kid' on the hill in Sand Springs. Been a while.

 

[radiorob2.0]

There was a discussion on this board regarding WQEW New York and their incredible sound. Their secret was a Tri-Maze.