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And they said it would never happen.

I would say that is a stunning victory for the HD folks. One thing is certain - if that hadn't happened, they would be in serious trouble. Now - it is on a level playing field at Ford with satellite - although I wonder how many informed consumers will actually opt for HD instead of satellite. What the HD advocates really need is for the HD radio to become STANDARD - not OPTIONAL. If they win that victory, millions of consumers who never even heard of HD radio will suddenly have the capability - as they did for years with C-Quam. Hopefully their experience will be a good one with HD - because lousy reception / frequent switching between analog and digital will make for a very unhappy consumer! And stock car radio systems are seldom very good - aftermarket usually has much better performance. But for HD - they cannot afford mediocre RF sections. They need the best sensitivity and performance the state of the art has to offer!
 
I would agree that digital capability needs to become a standard feature on all makes before we can begin predicting how soon hybrid operation can be phased out, but I suppose you have to start somewhere. Hint: Make sure the FM section can be programmed (through a button combination) to tune from 76 to 108, so when AM IBOC is declared dead, local AM broadcasters can make a smooth transition to the expanded FM band.

Something else Ford/Visteon should consider is a link between digital radio's ancillary data stream and the Bluetooth/WiFi capability they have incorporated into some factory-installed radios. The ability to transfer files to portable devices (PDAs, laptops, GPS receivers, iPods, etc.) would greatly enhance FM HD's potential. I would also like to see the data standard become more "open", encouraging entrepreneurs to develop creative new applications. It's quite obvious that the iBiquity people currently "in charge" haven't done an adequate job in this area. Example: the recently-announced iPod "tagging" feature, which took six years too long to develop.
 
You did notice that this is an extra cost dealer installed option? Basically, it’s the Visteon HD adapter. I've seen no mention of price, but it is probably as economical as the dealer installed undercoating packages. Add-ons are one way car dealers make their money. The profit margin on cars is very low, so they love selling dealer installed accessories.

Whether this will prove to be popular remains to be seen. Maybe it will. Ford has little to lose in deal. Just remember to check history before you rush to the victory celebration. At one time, Chrysler offered a dealer installed 45-RPM record player on some of their cars. They got a lot of public interest because at the time, your traveling entertainment options were very limited. Today, that's hardly the case. If you can find one of the old Chrysler record players, you have a real treasure. They didn't sell well. It probably isn't a big surprise to anyone that they didn't work all that well either. Sound familiar?

Until HD is standard equipment in any car with a radio, this really won't amount to much. That may come to pass, but we will all have to be patient. In the mean time, you can stow the party hats and noisemakers.
 
Chuck said:
You did notice that this is an extra cost dealer installed option? Basically, it’s the Visteon HD adapter. I've seen no mention of price, but it is probably as economical as the dealer installed undercoating packages. Add-ons are one way car dealers make their money. The profit margin on cars is very low, so they love selling dealer installed accessories.
Click to expand...

Chuck, you're absolutely right. I just read the headline on the Radio-Info homepage -- and groaned. But why should I be surprised?

The price is $279 plus $40-50 installation fee, so this obviously is not a factory-installed radio. I also wonder if it will be covered under the vehicle's warranty. Anyone thinking of purchasing one would be wise to read the fine print and disclaimers.
 
Play Freebird said:
Chuck said:
You did notice that this is an extra cost dealer installed option? Basically, it’s the Visteon HD adapter. I've seen no mention of price, but it is probably as economical as the dealer installed undercoating packages. Add-ons are one way car dealers make their money. The profit margin on cars is very low, so they love selling dealer installed accessories.
Click to expand...

Chuck, you're absolutely right. I just read the headline on the Radio-Info homepage -- and groaned. But why should I be surprised?

The price is $279 plus $40-50 installation fee, so this obviously is not a factory-installed radio. I also wonder if it will be covered under the vehicle's warranty. Anyone thinking of purchasing one would be wise to read the fine print and disclaimers.
Click to expand...

R&R, yesterday, cited the Critical Mass Media study which showed that 77% of respondants in the survey knew about HD Radio and 31% said they would buy one. But the price point that would entice these 31% to buy an HD radio is "50.00-60.00 dollars." If this is indicative of the average radio buyer it doesn't bode well for the Ford HD Radio at 279.00 plus installation.

Besides, the Sync option (for Bluetooth connectivity) that Ford is offering is only about $80.00 more.

So which is the more compelling option?

db
 
"Ford will support the HD Radio launch with a 13-week, multimillion-dollar radio campaign in partnership with the HD Radio Digital Alliance. The commercials are set to start airing September 26 on about 700 radio stations in 100 markets."



Is the glass half empty or half full? Hey, lots of options are dealer installed. When you're spending 20 thoughsand dollars or more for a car, 250 extra dollars doesn't mean an awful lot. of course there are those out there who even if the gave the radio's away would say it just proves this technology is a failure. HD might not succeed but so far thiings have been looking good for HD. They've had one win after another so far but this is a world where winning is the same as losing. And to you pro HD types, stop presenting all your facts. They just get in the way of our getting the real word about this commie technology out there.
 
Actually, the first Chrysler Hi-Way Hi-Fi car record players could only handle proprietary, preprogrammed repertoire on special 16 2/3 rpm discs. (They sounded kind of like HD-AM with a little extra wow and flutter tossed in.) But they had that kind of super-cool first-guy-on-the-block appeal even though Hi-Way Hi-Fi wasn't very practical: imagine, playing records while you drive your car! The novelty evaporated the first time you rode over a railroad crossing with your favorite tune playing.

The super-cool argument will seem fallacious as the "hey, I've got digital radio!" "Really? XM or Sirius?" conversation becomes somewhat more prevalent aboard Ford products.
 
Even though the marketing push through Ford will have some impact, until broadcasters invest in some type of compelling programming not otherwise available on terrrestrial or satellite channels, what is the ultimate benefit? Satellite definitely has the edge in the car with coast-to-coast availabilty of content with plenty of options for all. I fail to see the value of investing in an HD receiver to hear the same ole same ole...
 
dbdigital said:
R&R, yesterday, cited the Critical Mass Media study which showed that 77% of respondants in the survey knew about HD Radio and 31% said they would buy one. But the price point that would entice these 31% to buy an HD radio is "50.00-60.00 dollars." If this is indicative of the average radio buyer it doesn't bode well for the Ford HD Radio at 279.00 plus installation.
Click to expand...

Since $279 on a typical 4 year finance deal adds only a few dollars a month, this is a lot less negative than you make it seem.
 
DavidEduardo said:
dbdigital said:
R&R, yesterday, cited the Critical Mass Media study which showed that 77% of respondants in the survey knew about HD Radio and 31% said they would buy one. But the price point that would entice these 31% to buy an HD radio is "50.00-60.00 dollars." If this is indicative of the average radio buyer it doesn't bode well for the Ford HD Radio at 279.00 plus installation.
Click to expand...

Since $279 on a typical 4 year finance deal adds only a few dollars a month, this is a lot less negative than you make it seem.
Click to expand...

You should send that sentence to the marketing department at Ford, maybe their salesmen can use it when they start offering HD Radio to their customers.

db
 
A nearly $300 option that buyers have to specifically ask for? Given the lack of awareness or buzz about HD right now, this is a non-starter. Maybe (you should pardon the pun) down the road a bit, but this isn't going to work here and now.

What HD needs, and what would REALLY give it a shot in the arm, is for some car manufacturer to step up and make it standard, across the entire line of cars the manufacturer sells. The price points might not be there just yet, but until HD gets the same access to dashboards that sat radio has (free with many cars, not all luxury models, and with free service for three months or in some cases a year), making the customer ask for it is not going to result in any significant sales. Problem is, without the same "spiffs" that sat radio gives the car manufacturers, HD is fighting an losing battle.
 
Perhaps you missed this part of Fords news release;

"Ford will support the HD Radio launch with a 13-week, multimillion-dollar radio campaign in partnership with the HD Radio Digital Alliance. The commercials are set to start airing September 26 on about 700 radio stations in 100 markets."



At least now people will have warning so that they can tune out or ignore the upcoming advertising blitz.
 
The standard OEM radios available in Ford models provide VERY GOOD RECEPTION on FM and AM. While they fall a bit short in the amplifier-oomph department, and miss many of the bells ‘n whistles included in more-deluxe aftermarket receivers – they meet the audio pleasure of most AND well-exceed the AM reception/sound quality provided by the less-radio-oriented “name brands”.

If Visteon’s “plug-in HD” design follows those typical of the other current adapters, the in-dash receiver section is totally-replaced by the accessory “HD box”...ALL R.F., I.F., and demodulation [INCLUDING ANALOG] is acquired and handled by that adaptor. This can be a blessing or a curse – depending on the corresponding performance of the “HD” accessory and that of the in-dash radio [remember that Ford’s ANALOG receiver agility starts-off as a plus]. Don’t assume that just because “HD” is involved and hardware cost is $275 that performance will better [or even equal] that of the standard radio. And what of its performance on ANALOG broadcasts?...I’m sure once this option is elected, the driver will never “slum” with an analog signal again ::) Seriously – this involves consideration and a cautious approach.

Alpine offers a similar “upgrade” for $200 to their “HD-ready” models. Here is the post-installation scorecard: FM “HD” reception = mediocre; AM “HD” reception = awful [but none of these maladies are atypical amoung many IBOC-capable oxymorons]; and analog FM and AM sensitivity = a noticeable reduction from that provided by the in-dash receiver. Interestingly, the only parameter that appears to improve is analog AM bandwidth/sound quality. The Alpine “HD” plug-in provides very-nice sounding ANALOG AM audio. And how is this unit selling at a leading fourteen-store upscale Midwest Alpine retailer? NOT EVEN FIFTY HAVE BEEN SOLD since August/2006 and MOST HAVE BEEN RETURNED due to customer dissatisfaction :'(

Braving the inevitable stature-attack from the “HD” enthusiasts here; I'll predict that given the over-$300 price AND requirement for dealer-motivated sales and installation leveraged against a poor cost/benefits ratio, this “HD upgrade” [like “HD” itself] = a non-starter... So I hope my shiny new Ford will! I can hear the post-haggling rhetoric now from the dealership sales cubicle: “Well Mr. Smith... That’s $375 for the rust-proofing, $200 for the paint-protector, $100 for fabric-guard, another $100 for his-‘n-her horns; and now—would you care to add $500 for the extended service/guaranteed loaner program [that I make 50% commission on]... Or for a little-less, you can get ‘HD Radio’—WHAT’S THAT?”
 
Congrats to the Anti HD crowd. I wouldn't have believed it, but it's become true.

HD availability in Ford vehicles is a losing idea.

You heard it here first. :)

Clouseau
 
How far does the HD signal go

I have XM and I can pick it up anywhere. HD sounds bland and boring and must only come in clear in the local area??? Is this wrong
 
Perhaps you missed this part of Fords news release;

"Ford will support the HD Radio launch with a 13-week, multimillion-dollar radio campaign in partnership with the HD Radio Digital Alliance. The commercials are set to start airing September 26 on about 700 radio stations in 100 markets."
Click to expand...

Hmmm... "In partnership with the HD Radio Digital Alliance"?

Respectful question: Will Ford be paying full rate-card prices for these spots? Or is this part of "the deal". Will this be like the stations that "have donated millions of dollars of inventory" to promote "HD" Radio and/or run PSAs that the NAB turn around and couch as a "donation" of millions?

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I really want to know.

So the consumer needs to ask for a $300 add-on for something studies have already shown he doesn't need, want, or know what it is. I agree, a "victory"...

Simple question.

P.S. I've got a tape of that QVC thing coming to me tomorrow. I've already got one of those microwave popcorn sleeves, and I can't wait...
 
Is the optional availability of HD in Ford vehicles a good thing for IBOC? Sure. Is it a positive that there will be yet another ad campaign? Absolutely. Are conditions favorable for this leading to a big sales ramp-up for HD? I would opine: doubtful at best.

It's apparent to me that many frequenters of this board have never actually SOLD anything out there in the real world, where every potential "prospect" is from Missouri.

The trick here is not in availability, or steadily improving technology, dropping prices, or ad campaigns. The trick is actually getting people to buy this thing.

Essentially, oversimplified "closing" consists of fundmentally simple steps which are notoriously tricky to accomplish in practice.

1. Identify a likely prospect.
2. Promise a tangible, meaningful benefit.
3. Remove objections.
4. Offer an unusual value.
5. Ask for the order.

Let's stack up these principles against what HD has to offer:

1. Who is the consumer who is so dissatisfied with analog radio that she'll plunk down $300+ additional for HD? Beats the hell out of me. College-types? Aging baby-boomers? Older talk-radio fans? Teens? I'd hazard to guess no, no, no and no.

2. What's the meaningful benefit? AM-HD sounds better (to some, while to others it sounds worse) but doesn't function reliably in the real-world. FM-HD doesn't offer enough improvement over analog to the average consumer to justify the cost. "Stations between the stations" isn't a big benefit either. Of all of the problems facing FM music radio, listener choice of formats is not a significant factor. And on both bands: commercials are still there.

3. Objections likely will include: FM sounds the same to me, analog or digital. AM might sound better but reception isn't reliable and I don't like the digital-analog blend. I don't understand/don't need the additional FM subchannels. It costs too much. I don't understand HD. The commercials are still there when I listen to HD. (Don't see realistic ways to deal with these consumer objections.)

4. What's the unusual value? Out of the gate the thing is too expensive, even if a prospect wants it. RCA sold color TVs at a huge loss for almost five years just to get receivers out there in public hands. Would the Alliance/iBiquity make a similar investment in the future, offering optional car-HD at a point under $100?

5. Who is going to ask the prospect, face-to-face, to buy HD? You'd have to incentivize the car salesman on the Ford showroom floor - spiff each rep a C-note or other meaningful carrot to push HD along with other options. If this is being done I haven't heard anything about it.

Therefore: near-term, HD remains - even if installed in Ford vehicles as an option - a solution in search of a real-world problem.
 
Let's respond to Savage point by point.

1)-First HD doesn't cost 300+ dollars. For half of this year, one was available for 50 dollars. Now it's 100. A third, or a sixth of what you implied was the price of admission.

2)-Millions of Americans are willing to PAY MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FEES for increased programming choices. It's a no-brainer that inproved choice FOR FREE is a strong selling point, if stations can both provide strong choices, AND PROMOTE THE DAMN THINGS! With many of the largest markets having neither an oldies, not a country station on analog fm or am, OF COURSE THE CHOICE OF FORMATS IS AN IMPORTANT FACTOR! Consolidation has led to FAR fewer choices, from far fewer programmers! The Greensboro/Winston Salem/High Point market has no fulltime classical station, since WFDD (along with many other NPR outlets) went talk. Beginning in October, classical returns on their HD2, and jazz and other eclectic forms of music are coming on HD3 after the first of the year. Choices UNAVAILABLE WITHOUT HD! A VERY tangible benefit!

3)-Blends are transparent when (as most will do) listening to HD1. Certainly no more bothersome than when your radio blends to mono (as they certainly do OFTEN in many parts of the country!). And this isn't a factor in urban/suburban areas where most people live. And contrary to what many think, listeners DO NOT TUNE OUT IN LARGE NUMBERS DURING STOPSETS! This is one of the things we've already learned from PPM (portable people meters) used by Arbitron. It's not as if satellite or internet radio are REALLY without commercials! They're just handled differently. But the important selling point isn't sound quality. It's ALWAYS programming! People don't watch tv, or listen to the radio. They watch and listen to PROGRAMS they like. Success of ANY broadcast technology is always contingent upon the quality and quantity of the content, not the pristine nature of it's delivery.

4)-A good point, actually Savage. Ibiquity needs to "take a bath" for a while to keep prices low. And manufacturers need to put decent amplifiers and speakers in HD radios so they actually sound good. Think Tivoli, not GPX!

5)-Also correct. Money must change hands. Think those big displays in the supermarket appear there because the store owner really likes the new brand of noodles, or soup? Palms must be greased to have anything displayed, and sold aggressively.
 
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