Another One Bites the Dust

[rbrucecarter5]

I'm a regular non-radio person. Any chance the HD has caused the KTCK signal to be worse over the past year or so? Not talking about the recent storm damage - but it seems the signal is much weaker than in the by-gone days. Also wondering if the XM package in my new car doesn't interfere with the signals on the far right end of the AM dial. The signal has sucked since I bought the car in November.

They lost 3 towers in last week's storms and are on reduced power.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Do you think your average listener cares about the jamming of adjacent frequencies? Unless you're from a distant town and trying to pick up your hometown station, or unless you're a radio "nut" scanning the dial, I bet most people don't care about the stations that aren't in town.

Another person from dowtown trying tell suburban and rural listeners that first adjacents don't work. You would be surprised how many first adjacents exist on AM and FM if you are 30 miles out from downtown in just about any direction. As many as there are here, there are ten times as many in the East where cities are more closely spaced. You don't have to live in Green Acres to be equidistant from first adjacents!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Taking this thread up a few notches from where it degenerated - I noticed KLIF IBOC is back on.

 

[Andyf101]

Do you think your average listener cares about the jamming of adjacent frequencies? Unless you're from a distant town and trying to pick up your hometown station, or unless you're a radio "nut" scanning the dial, I bet most people don't care about the stations that aren't in town.

Another person from dowtown trying tell suburban and rural listeners that first adjacents don't work. You would be surprised how many first adjacents exist on AM and FM if you are 30 miles out from downtown in just about any direction. As many as there are here, there are ten times as many in the East where cities are more closely spaced. You don't have to live in Green Acres to be equidistant from first adjacents!

Little1 has already admitted he only cares about his 401K and early social security. His passion for radio is pretty much non-existant. The sooner these types of people get out of radio, the better.

And let's not forget he's the one who told me to FOAD, right here on this very board.

Andy

 

[rbrucecarter5]

And let's not forget he's the one who told me to FOAD, right here on this very board.

And the moderators of this board didn't yank his membership or at least banish him to "take it outside"? Profanity has no place in polite conversation - PERIOD. The moment somebody uses profanity at me, my immediate reaction is: the English language has over 500,000 words with which one can express one's self. Is the profanity user really so unintelligent they must resort to same two dozen or so to express strong emotion? Pathetic!

If the need arises, I can "cuss" somebody else without resorting to a single one of those tired, burned out old words. Therefore, I can post with impunity anywhere - and the poor intellectual slouch who used profanity at me will know they have been royally cussed out and have little resort other than to retreat to their usual tirade of the same couple of dozen words, thus illustrating their abject foolishness to the entire board.

 

[little1]

Do you think your average listener cares about the jamming of adjacent frequencies? Unless you're from a distant town and trying to pick up your hometown station, or unless you're a radio "nut" scanning the dial, I bet most people don't care about the stations that aren't in town.

Another person from dowtown trying tell suburban and rural listeners that first adjacents don't work. You would be surprised how many first adjacents exist on AM and FM if you are 30 miles out from downtown in just about any direction. As many as there are here, there are ten times as many in the East where cities are more closely spaced. You don't have to live in Green Acres to be equidistant from first adjacents!

As Andy pointed out, I'm only a couple of years from retirement. But in almost 30 years in this market, talking to listeners, answering email, etc, I've never had someone complain about a signal from my station blocking out some station from Houston, OKC, etc. And so to repeat my point from above, do you really think that your average listener (the vast majority of which lives in the city or the suburbs where they can pick the signals up pretty cleanly) cares about what stations are on 560, 1170, 810, etc...

It's me belief that the vast majority of people set their presets once in their car- and punch around from KLIF to KSKY to KAAM to KRLD to WBAP to KHVN etc etc, and never hear the sideband "hash" that a lot of you guys complain about.

 

[Andyf101]

After the way you have treated others around here, Little1, and shown us how much you really care about radio, I highly doubt anyone is going to listen to you any more.

Andy

 

[rbrucecarter5]

As Andy pointed out, I'm only a couple of years from retirement. But in almost 30 years in this market, talking to listeners, answering email, etc, I've never had someone complain about a signal from my station blocking out some station from Houston, OKC, etc. And so to repeat my point from above, do you really think that your average listener (the vast majority of which lives in the city or the suburbs where they can pick the signals up pretty cleanly) cares about what stations are on 560, 1170, 810, etc...

It's me belief that the vast majority of people set their presets once in their car- and punch around from KLIF to KSKY to KAAM to KRLD to WBAP to KHVN etc etc, and never hear the sideband "hash" that a lot of you guys complain about.

Which station, out of curioscity?

You might get a laugh out of my latest post under the KLAK topic ---

As far as adjacents go, there were a number of posts about KLBJ after KLIF put hash over it, and also when it cleared up. Clearly, KLBJ has some fans up here. If nothing else - Austin expatriots who want to hear the home town news.

I am one of those button pushing listeners. Unfortunately for your theory, I have two first adjacents on my presets - KTCU and KOOI. Both sound almost like locals even with strong signals next to them. When I lived in Florida, equidistant from 3 or 4 metro areas, and lived in yet another - my FM radio could easily get stations on at least 80 frequencies. Do the math and you can see a very sizable percentage were first adjacents. All it takes for first adjacent reception is for the signals to be relatively similar in signal strength. If that is the case, virtually any FM radio will do it. I would say at least half of my presets in Florida were first adjacents. And my musical tastes were not that different from other people who did likewise. We cared about the format, not the location of the station. Which contradicts what I said about KLBJ - I know - but its always about content, not necessarily signal strength. If some station plays a crappy format but has a great sounding digital signal, people won't listen. But the number of NPR enthusiasts who post all over different markets of this board about marginal signal conditions, but they love their station, is amazing. They sure notice when it is jammed by IBOC sidebands!

 

[jras20]

People all the way down to Victoria listen to KLBJ. Funny in the HDBoards they say DX'n is not important any more, I think they are wrong. I think DX will always be a BIG part of radio. Thats one of the reasons why I dont think HDFM or AM will make it.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

People all the way down to Victoria listen to KLBJ. Funny in the HDBoards they say DX'n is not important any more, I think they are wrong. I think DX will always be a BIG part of radio. Thats one of the reasons why I dont think HDFM or AM will make it.

The problem is - it has already "made it". When you have an inferior or defective product to sell, or one that is vastly overpriced - all you need to do is to employ high pressure sales experts to go sell it. A good example is the $1700 cookware at festivals and outdoor events. We got roped into that hour and a half waste of time - you feel like a chump if you pass up the once in a lifetime opportunity to buy this great product.

I can image a small conference room at a radio station. In walks an impeccably dressed iBquity sales person. Handsome well groomed man or hot lady - the put on a slick powerpoint presentation complete with fear mongering that if you don't act now, your competition will have this great thing and you won't, you will be bankrupt because of competitive disadvantage, and the rates will only go up so you have to act now! I could write the presentation for them, I've seen a hundred like it. And passed on them all, because I know the trick. But we all know upper managers think a little differently that normal folks, and are not generally intelligent enough to see through the snake oil sales person.

 

[Andyf101]

Ibiquity might as well put together a one-page power point presentation that simply says, "We want your $$$ now, OR ELSE!!!!!"

Andy

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Ibiquity might as well put together a one-page power point presentation that simply says, "We want your $$$ now, OR ELSE!!!!!"

Andy

Their high pressure sales strategy in selling this defective technology could not have been any more effective if they held guns to station owners heads. They signed up for it and plunked down their money like lemmings going over a cliff, firmly convinced people would toss their iPods, and go buy HD radios.

 

[Curl]

What about second adjacents? Would it be legal here in Dallas for 850, 870, 890, or 910 to use IBOC? How about 970 or 990? What a mess! By definition, these stations would jam each others digital sidebands if they used IBOC.

Since the only thing radio stations have to offer is AUDIO, I'm just amazed that they intentionally filter it down to 5 Khz so that you get a little whistle every time someone uses the letter "S"! And don't even get me started on the horrible harmonic distortion, compression and EQ out there. WBAP and KLIF used to have such excellent sound - what a shame.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

WBAP and KLIF used to have such excellent sound - what a shame.

Not to mention their coverage - they have taken a huge hit just so they can run this mess.

 

[CW]

People all the way down to Victoria listen to KLBJ. Funny in the HDBoards they say DX'n is not important any more, I think they are wrong. I think DX will always be a BIG part of radio. Thats one of the reasons why I dont think HDFM or AM will make it.

The problem is - it has already "made it". When you have an inferior or defective product to sell, or one that is vastly overpriced - all you need to do is to employ high pressure sales experts to go sell it. A good example is the $1700 cookware at festivals and outdoor events. We got roped into that hour and a half waste of time - you feel like a chump if you pass up the once in a lifetime opportunity to buy this great product.

I can image a small conference room at a radio station. In walks an impeccably dressed iBquity sales person. Handsome well groomed man or hot lady - the put on a slick powerpoint presentation complete with fear mongering that if you don't act now, your competition will have this great thing and you won't, you will be bankrupt because of competitive disadvantage, and the rates will only go up so you have to act now! I could write the presentation for them, I've seen a hundred like it. And passed on them all, because I know the trick. But we all know upper managers think a little differently that normal folks, and are not generally intelligent enough to see through the snake oil sales person.

In telecom, its called the "Follow the Herd" factor......Most if not all large companies are looking at VoIP....WHAT a WASTE...its a forklift of their entire telephony infrastructure...to do what??? Save money?? NO (A large company like mine is looking at about $30 mill or so for VoIP...when intergrating it into our current setup would cost less than $200k and allows us to run hybrid...but thats not good enough)......besides, the Cat3 or similar telephony wiring is already there in most places...you know how CHEAP Cat 3-5 wire is and how much I can buy for $30mill?????? OH but MACs (moves and changes) will be easier (NO THEY WONT....for the most part, moving a phone nowadays is unplugging at one spot, plugging it in at another)....besides, what about Faxes and modems?? THEY DONT LIKE VOIP.....

BUT its the HERD mentality....the lead bull (company) is leading the herd...even if heading over a cliff, the rest of the herd will follow...or will be kicked over by the stampede of the other dumb animals in the back........the ones at the back who stop?? They'll be the only ones left standing...alive...

Same thing with IBUZ....VOiP....all the new "great" technologies....hell I HATE my TDMA cell phone...the audio sucks compared to my old analog phone....but you cant find analog anymore....the HERD rides again!!

 

[radioguyntx]

Can someone please clear up the who IBOC/HD whatever the heck it is.. I don't think there is any station in my area that uses it, but in the bigger market boards I notice it alot.

 

[Andyf101]

Essentially it's the radio equivalent of HDTV. It takes the radio station's analog audio, converts it to digital, and it is converted back to analog on the receiver. In theory, FM stations become "CD Quality", while AM stations become FM quality.

But right now in the U.S., Ibiquity is the only authorized manufacturer of the IBOC broadcasting technology, and it's full of flaws. On the AM side of things, you'll now hear a "static hash" on adjacant channels for AM stations running it.

On the FM side of things, the technology allows for stations to run more than one channel of audio, on the same frequency. Generally HD1 is the station's regular analog programming, while HD2 and HD3 can be completely different. But any FM station running HD1, 2 and 3 will not approach CD quality. There's only so much bandwidth space on the carrier.

Andy

 

[radioguyntx]

Thanks for the little bit of enlightenment!

 

[davideduardo]

But right now in the U.S., Ibiquity is the only authorized manufacturer of the IBOC broadcasting technology,

iBiquity does not manufacture... they own the technology and they license to Harris, BE, Nautel, etc., etc.

On the FM side of things, the technology allows for stations to run more than one channel of audio, on the same frequency. Generally HD1 is the station's regular analog programming,

Not "generally" but always, by rule. The FCC requires that the HD 1 channel must replicate the analog channel. There is no requirement for use of anything beyond HD1.

 

[ropertex]

If somebody can come up with a way of doing digital radio that does not jam adjacent frequencies on AM and FM, I will be among the most enthusiastic supporters. But this system does not. One of the foundations of our nation is property rights. Do what you want on your own property, but don't do it on MINE. Broadcasters get one frequency, and should stay OFF of adjacent frequencies. Do digital on FM, but do it in 200 kHz. Do digital on AM, but do it in 10 kHz. Or don't do it at all! Your personal freedom ends where your neighbor's nose begins, your property ends where your neighbor's begins, and your frequency allocation ends where the next station begins.

AM stations have NEVER operated within 10 kHz. From 1934 until NRSC-1 in 1988, AM stations were allowed to transmit
15 Khz audio. That's 30 KHz , thus there was never any expectation that stations two channels above and two channels below
would be listenable. Of course, the HD AM signal does occupy the full 30 kHz space allowed, making reception of formerly
listenable distant stations impossible, but it's ridiculous to say stations are "violating property rights" by using the bandwidth that
has been legal for them to use for nearly 75 years!