Another Station Likely to Leave the Air Soon

[Barry]

It appears WNYZ, which offers Korean programming on 87.75, will need to shut down in a few months.
InsideRadio has an article stating the F.C.C. has released a public notice reminding LPTV operators using 87.75 MHz they need to switch from analog to digital by July. This would effectively shut down FM stations using the TV audio, as they won't be receivable on conventional radios.
Though the F.C.C. issued this mandate some time ago, they have now made it clear there will be no excuses accepted, with one exception. If the TV broadcaster can demonstrate they are having serious issues beyond their control in making the conversion, they will be given another 180 days to get this done. The radio station cannot be a factor in asking for the additional 6 months.
A group representing the LPTV broadcasters is asking the F.C.C. to allow them to broadcast a secondary analog audio signal that would make it possible for the radio stations to remain on the air. They argue that most of the FM's on 87.7 are serving various ethnic groups. But the F.C.C. has given no indication they will accept this.

From Inside Radio

 

[ContinuousWave]

Secondary signals in the TV channel would be a waste...8VSB decoders mute if in channel signals other than the 8VSB are -15dbC or higher...given that LP/LD 6 are given 3KW ERP max, such secondary signals would have to be less than 100watts ERP...compared to current 3KW, equivalent to a Class A FM, that is used, there's a mood killer 😉

 

[TheBigA]

Perhaps one of the biggest at 87.7 is WRME Chicago. METV-FM.

MeTV FM 87.7 radio in Chicago, Illinois

Timeless and memorable music from the '50s, '60s, 70's, and '80s. Unlike most radio stations, our music library consists of over 3500 songs. Listen to more than 350 different songs per day with no repeats!

www.metv.fm

 

[Miss Tuned]

I don't really understand this quote:

NPR also said that if programming diversity is what the FCC wants, keeping Franken FM on the air is not the right move. “The spectrum occupied by a single LPTV Channel 6 station could accommodate up to thirty FM stations, exponentially increasing the variety of programming available for diverse audiences,” it said.

Are they saying that the spectrum occupied by the video portion of the signal could accommodate 30 FM radio stations? If so, that may be the case, but given that the video signal is at ~82-83 MHz, everyone who wanted to listen would need to buy a Japanese FM radio to do so.

Or are they saying that you could squeeze 30 LPFMs into the 87.7 "bit" of the dial somehow? I'm not quite sure what they're getting at here.

 

[frankberry]

The combined analog TV audio and video is 6MHz wide. wide enough for 30 100kHz FM channels.

 

[Miss Tuned]

The combined analog TV audio and video is 6MHz wide. wide enough for 30 100kHz FM channels.

But most of that is below the tuning range of an FM radio, except if it's set up to receive the Japanese band. You'd be programming to no-one.

 

[Joylovepulse967]

No information ny radio Korea about sign offf at http://fm877.nyc/ that’s werid . It in Korean and I understand

 

[DaveBayArea]

But most of that is below the tuning range of an FM radio, except if it's set up to receive the Japanese band. You'd be programming to no-one.

Today you'd be programming to nobody, but then again, 1610-1700 AM used to program to nobody. Not saying the expanded band stations are necessarily doing great these days, but I don't see much of a disadvantage for those facilities compared to one on, say, 1470. Also, FM stations are way less expensive to build vs AM. I think the FCC would be surprised at how many takers they'd get if they opened up 82-88 MHz to FM.

Dave B.

 

[ContinuousWave]

TV channel 6 is NOT going anywhere...the FCC has stated that yet people kept beating the dead horse....give it up,it's done and over

 

[davideduardo]

Today you'd be programming to nobody, but then again, 1610-1700 AM used to program to nobody. Not saying the expanded band stations are necessarily doing great these days, but I don't see much of a disadvantage for those facilities compared to one on, say, 1470. Also, FM stations are way less expensive to build vs AM. I think the FCC would be surprised at how many takers they'd get if they opened up 82-88 MHz to FM.

Dave B.

1610 to 1700 is still programming to nobody. Few people go to any stations at the higher end of the dial any longer, save a very few decent signal heritage stations in smaller markets where the coverage is adequate.

There are 1314 US AM stations above 1400 on the dial. of those, only 17 get above a 0.0 share, and only one, KFBK in Sacramento, gets over a 1.8 share. Two get between a 1.1 and a 1.8, the rest are 0.1 to 0.8. Only AM only X-Band station without a translator to get ratings comes in with a o.1 share.

People just don't go there.

 

[Ryan Williams]

I also wonder how much of KFBK’s audience in 2021 is actually listening on 93.1. The branding for the last few years has been almost all FM focused.

 

[boombox4]

Do modern car radios, most of which I understand have DSP chips, have capabilities of tuning below 88 Mhz?

I have two DSP chipped radios that will tune down past the Japanese FM band to the 64-66 MHz OIRT spectrum if I tell them to, through the menu.

Just curious. A lot of DSP radio chips seem to have universal capability... it's just a matter of being able to program the radio to 'see' it, which obviously is a radio microprocessor function.

 

[boombox4]

1610 to 1700 is still programming to nobody. Few people go to any stations at the higher end of the dial any longer, save a very few decent signal heritage stations in smaller markets where the coverage is adequate.

There are 1314 US AM stations above 1400 on the dial. of those, only 17 get above a 0.0 share, and only one, KFBK in Sacramento, gets over a 1.8 share. Two get between a 1.1 and a 1.8, the rest are 0.1 to 0.8. Only AM only X-Band station without a translator to get ratings comes in with a o.1 share.

People just don't go there.

What percentage of FM listeners tune lower than 92 Mhz?

 

[Yabadabado1]

People just don't go there.

I go there. Usually just to DX and see what I can pick up. I just don't hang around in the neighborhood very long though.

 

[davideduardo]

I also wonder how much of KFBK’s audience in 2021 is actually listening on 93.1. The branding for the last few years has been almost all FM focused.

Good point. I forgot that they had a significant FM presence. In all liklihood, in the rated markets, there are probably only one or two stations above 1400 that get over a 0.2 share without a translator. They others are likely getting 80% or more of their listening on FM.

I think I will look at stations above 1300 and then stations above 1220 and see what the data yields.

 

[davideduardo]

What percentage of FM listeners tune lower than 92 Mhz?

Depends on the market, but, for example, in San Francisco there are about 12 shares for the two main non-commercial stations below 92. They cume close to 18% of the market. One of them is #1 in the market. There are quite a few such markets, and many more with not quite as impressive numbers but at least on stations in the top 10 to 12 in the entire market.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Do modern car radios, most of which I understand have DSP chips, have capabilities of tuning below 88 Mhz?

Almost certainly. One of my colleagues recently designed a product that contained a modern FM tuner chip from the biggest American designer of such chips, and it was capable of receiving the Japanese FM band, as well as 100 kHz European channel spacing. I'm not sure about the old Soviet FM band.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

What percentage of FM listeners tune lower than 92 Mhz?

I'm reasonably confident that most listeners tune below 92 MHz at times simply by the use of seek and scan functions on their radios. Probably only if their top one or two stations are playing something they don't like (like when music stations air sports)

 

[Miss Tuned]

Almost certainly. One of my colleagues recently designed a product that contained a modern FM tuner chip from the biggest American designer of such chips, and it was capable of receiving the Japanese FM band, as well as 100 kHz European channel spacing. I'm not sure about the old Soviet FM band.

Modern DSP radios are technically more than capable of tuning to the Japanese band, or European channels. A lot of AM radios have long had the function hidden away to switch between 9/10kHz stepping.

The issue is that it's an uphill battle to get people to keep listening to existing FM radio in the face of the plethora of new digital media (which isn't so new any more), let alone buy or modify their radios to pick up some new, as yet untried, FM spectrum. Brazil made some announcements in 2014 that the FM band was being extended to cover the Japanese portion of the spectrum, but I'm not sure it ever happened - a look at FM station lists for São Paulo suggests not, with the lowest station there being at 88.1.

 

[Barry]

So, assuming WNYZ converts to low power digital TV, what might be their best options? As LPTV is hard to receive outside a narrow area, and not carried by cable TV operators, is it profitable in this region?