Another Utica shake-up: Keeler

[ThePickleReport]

AllAccess.com is reporting that Bill Keeler has left KISS and has cut a deal with oldies WXUR-FM to do mornings there!

 

[Element9]

Moving down... the dial to do Oldies, or is it Classic Hits. Getting paid or is he buying the time and selling it. Interesting move. Would you say this puts WXUR on the map?
_________________________________________________

-9-

Lots of questions for a man who's chock full of opinions... and himself. Must be mellowing.

 

[BobRoss]

What I'm wondering is why Keeler decided to leave KISS. Even though his ex-boss Levine bought it, the KISS stations are being spun right back out to Roser. So it's not like Keeler would even have had to deal with Ed Levine.

In the Utica-OD, Keeler was quoted as saying, "It's important that I align my company and my radio show with a radio station and ownership that really believes in the Utica-Rome/Mohawk Valley area." But Ken Roser's a local owner just like Mindy Barstein, isn't he? I'm wondering why he chose to leave the well-known KISS-FM, for the much less popular WXUR. Most KISS listeners probably don't even know WXUR exists! Even half of those who listened to Keeler on WRCK probably don't know what the heck WXUR is. Over the years, WXUR has done little or no real outside promotion. Their only claim to fame was when they carried Don Imus, and we all know what happened there.

How will Keeler's move change things?

First of all, big score for WXUR. I don't know what they've had on in the mornings since Imus left the airwaves, but Keeler will be a better replacement than anyone else being offered, even if Imus himself eventually comes back onto the scene. Thanks to his own hard work, Keeler managed to stay in the spotlight after being fired by WRCK, and eventually got back on the air. Even with the Arbitrons embargoed for the past year or so, it's evident he's successful because he's been landing enough revenue from his own advertisers, to buy the entire AM Drive timeslot on KISS, and to payroll his staff. People followed him from WRCK to the TV show, and back to KISS-FM (and the show still airs on TV). People will follow him right along to WXUR.

The only problem is that WXUR's signal isn't as powerful. With KISS, you get 97.9/Whitesboro blanketing the western parts of the market and 105.5/Little Falls ensuring listeners in the valley can hear you. WXUR, being based in Herkimer, covers the valley well, but you can't go too far past Rome before it falls apart, and fast. While I'm sure Keeler will do an excellent job making sure listeners know about his move, and WXUR will get the most promotion it's ever had (mostly on Keeler's dime, I'd imagine), the fact that it's an inferior signal, geographically farther away from the "nucleus" of the market, could make it tough for some listeners to follow along.

Keeler likely knows this too. I'd have to guess either Roser wanted to increase the rate, and/or Keeler wanted to bring it down. Keeler likely had WXUR lined up as a "counter-offer" but rather than matching the offer, Roser called Keeler's bluff. In this case, I think Roser had more to lose. Despite the issue I mentioned in the previous paragraph, Keeler will still retain an overwhelming majority of his listeners. Meanwhile, Roser (or maybe it's still ClearChannel for now?) is stuck figuring out what the heck they're gonna do for a morning show come November 1st. Roser also loses out because this could really screw up the ratings for KISS, having Keeler take off right in the middle of the fall book. No matter who takes over, KISS will not be able to maintain Keeler's numbers in the morning. None of their current air staff could handle it (Shaun Andrews was horrible when he did it), and I doubt they'd be willing to cough up the cash to bring in someone decent from another market.

 

[Element9]

Wow, this Keeler dude must be the nuts. What's he doing buying time in Utica-Rome when he could be getting mondo money in a larger market. And is he so good there's not one competent, capable and proficient jock in U-R who could come in and do the morning show on Kiss? Or is it a matter of (a) Kiss being sold, (b) the low pay (c) the pronounced apathy in the market? Surely, there's SOME talent capable of assuming the role of morning drive boss-dee-uh-jay-eh at Kiss. Having to find a morning drive jock in the middle of the book puts Kiss behind the 8-ball... but you have to wonder, does WXUR even buy the book. If morning drive jocks are getting $40k in U-R, what's Keeler making brokering time? Deep thoughts in a shallow pool.

-9-

 

[SirRoxalot]

Big Fish

You gotta admit, the guy has stones. He's putting himself on the line by buying the morning drive slot, then selling it himself. Maybe he's moving because the new sheriff in town wasn't comfortable with that deal, and wanted employees, not a contractor.

Families, friends, and comfort zone are all reasons that somebody stays in a smaller market when they seem to have the chops to move to a larger market. It's the "big fish in a small pond" scenario. Some people are just not as motivated as others to move out & up, and are happy making a decent living where they are. He's worked hard to develop a following, and it looks like he knows how to exploit that. Good for him.

 

[BobRoss]

Wow, this Keeler dude must be the nuts. What's he doing buying time in Utica-Rome when he could be getting mondo money in a larger market.

He did go to a larger market many years ago, but wound up coming back. Whether it was his decision or theirs, I don't know. More than likely, he could go onto another big market if he wanted to, but as SirRoxalot said, Keeler probably feels comfortable in the market. Sure, he's buying the time, but it's not like he's perennial mayoral candidate Ed Hanna, buying the time just because he's got a ton of money and nothing better to spend it on. Keeler's selling his own spots for that time, and probably making considerably more than Kiss-FM's own sales staff were making when they sold it on their own. After all, Delaney wouldn't have gone for the deal if there wasn't a plus side for him. After buying the air time, Keeler has enough money left over to support himself, and his employees.

I'm sure Kiss could find a "proficient" jock, but they won't find anyone who pulls the same numbers Keeler did. And if the sales staff is still as incompetent as Roadrunner told us earlier on this board, even the best jock in the world probably wouldn't be able to keep the revenue stream going.

 

[Dave4120]

Hi Everyone...Not much time to write at the moment, since I have a football game to do tonight on WIBX, however, I can tell you that the numbers on Kiss do show that Keeler is not as popular as he was when he was at WRCK. I was one of Keeler's biggest supporters at WRCK and his show did get our clients results, however, I did not support his show on KISS, because only die-hard Keeler listeners followed him over to KISS and stuck with him. Don't get me wrong, he still showed average numbers, but nothing outstanding and nothing like when at WRCK.

WXUR hardly shows up in a book. When Imus was on, they did show up OK during his show with men 40 and over, but that was it, and after the Imus show, they were basically non existant.

I do not think it's going to be any different with Keeler on WXUR. There might be a spike in the morning when he is on, but nothing spectacular. I think just the hard care Keeler fans will listen regularly. I think others are fed up with the jumping around. And what about the advertisers that were told WRCK was the best station when Keeler was on, then KISS was the best station because Keeler was on. Now the people selling Keeler on WXUR will say, XUR is the best station because Keeler is on. Every station cannot be the best. Let's hope that the sales staff is smart enough not to knock the other stations that Keeler was on. Then you're telling the business owner that they wasted their money before.

I hope Bill does well. I like him, I think he is very talented. But it is hard no matter how good you are, to drop other proven stations with large, proven audiences, to jump ship to his show on this type of local Herkimer station.

 

[ajhenderson]

"It's important that I align my company and my radio show with a radio station and ownership that really believes in the Utica-Rome/Mohawk Valley area."

Does ANYBODY believe in the Mohawk Valley area?

 

[ThePickleReport]

I'm not that familiar with his situation at KISS. Was he really buying time there? Or is he just doing that at WXUR?
I don't see anything in the print story to indicate that. Someone enlighten me.

 

[Dave4120]

Keeler has been buying time on KISS. And from what a Clear Channel insider told me last night, he is way behind on payments to Clear Channel and owes them quite a bit. Obviously, his show is not selling like it did when he was on WRCK. This is just what I was told last night. It is not my opinion or do I know for sure if it is accurate, but it would not surprise me.

 

[ThePickleReport]

Thanks Dave. I thought I had missed something, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Element9]

Keeler has been buying time on KISS. And from what a Clear Channel insider told me last night, he is way behind on payments to Clear Channel and owes them quite a bit. Obviously, his show is not selling like it did when he was on WRCK. This is just what I was told last night. It is not my opinion or do I know for sure if it is accurate, but it would not surprise me.

So, we're trading on rumours (a wonderful album by Fleetwood mac) and innuendo (an Italian suppository.) I so much like these boards! Seriously. Like the National Enquirer: "Woman Finds Space Alien Hiding In Doghouse." And we soooo much want to believe!

It's one of the many traits of these boards that brings us here. Like the campfire surrounded by the Tribal Elders, we come to trade stories and opinions, turths and mysteries. And it never hurts to embellish. To your credit, you did qualify and attribute the report to a "source." Hell, the New York Times has run with worse.

Y'know, a few threads ago, we were talking about news-talk radio in Utica-Rome. It's stuff like this that could make it work... of course, the cume would be ridiculously low and the quarter hours wouldn't be much, but every radio geek in the Mohawk Valley would be glued to it. What's that, 10 or 11 people? Well, it's a start.

-9-

 

[Producer]

I was with Keeler when he launched on WRCK in '97...his first book was small. Compare that to his numbers from this Spring book and these numbers are far more impressive. 25-54 wasn't strong, but what do you expect on KISS. 18-34 and 18-49 were huge...tied with Krock for #2. Not bad in book one. Or as Dave says: "not that impressive." I admit, I'm close to Bill but no longer in the business...and am biased... but give credit where credit is due. And Dave...shame on you to question whether or not he is way behind and throw money rumors around. Even if he is way behind...and I have no reason to believe he is...it must not have been so bad that he was shut off. And Delaney did nothing but brag about the deal.
And furthermore... Who else in this market has been able to do what he has done. You have to be kidding me! The TV (love it or hate it)...production of tv commercials...he has two weekly tv shows that currently air in the market...and ad agency... huge ratings for Levine the first time...huge ratings for Levine '97-'02...huge ratings after being off for four years and going on CHR KISS...and now he's gone to a station that basically most people don't know in Utica. If I'm a betting person, which I'm NOT- I would feel far more comfortable betting on Bill than I would anybody else.

 

[Dave4120]

I welcome The Prodcuers comments. First, let me make it perfectly clear again my respect for Keeler and his talent. That has never been or ever will be in question. One must remember, that it was my company that supported Keeler's show on WRCK for all those years, and those six figures of investment, obviously helped Bill and Galaxy too. Bill is one talented person, however, talent and the right station have to mix together for a perfect marriage.

If we are going to get down to numbers, let's get serious and not vague about numbers and what they really say. Again, I am not questioning Keeler's talent, however, this market has proved in many instances, that no matter how good you are, if you are not at the station with the music mix that they have associated you with for so many years, you might not do as well as before. This is the case at KISS. Bill was huge and WRCK. He was doing a great job at KISS, but he was not as popular and did not have the same numbers he had at WRCK. In my opinion it's because of the format not Bill, even though he does not play music, and the 6,000 signal, compared to WRCK's 50,000 watt signal did not help.

You say his 18-34 and 18-49 numbers were huge. What I see are 18-34 females below the top 4, and, 3-times less audience than FROG or LITE. Even MIX had double the females. Let's talk about 18-49 females...below the top 3. With 25-49 and 25-54 females, not even a factor. On the men's side 18-34 not bad, close to FROG and K-ROCK, after that 18-49 below the top 4, 25-49 below the top 7. Shows that most of his men are 18-24, because once you hit 25, it drops like a bomb.

These numbers are meant only as a guide and which I could care less about, however, you brought up the numbers. I have never bought Bill's show based on numbers. His show did wonders for us on WRCK, and hopefully will do the same at his new station.

 

[Producer]

The fact that Bill was on with Kiss only until 9:00am and the ratings go until 10:00 hurt him. The ratings no longer break down the dayparts by the hour. Not long ago, you would have been able to see how well he did each quarter hour or each hour, but because Utica is so small, they don't do hourlys anymore. Just my two cents. I also find the new station to be stronger. 92.7 I couldn't get Kiss on my desktop radio at work. This station comes into Utica strong. There is one part that I agree with, the station is not known and there has been no advertising for where he is going. How are people going to know that he's on WXUR...November 1 is not far off and I have heard nothing! So we agree to disagree on most and agree on some.

 

[ENGTONY]

Keeler will be on the Air this thursday.....







Tony
Chief Engineer WXUR

 

[BobRoss]

The fact that Bill was on with Kiss only until 9:00am and the ratings go until 10:00 hurt him. The ratings no longer break down the dayparts by the hour.

If you're using Maximi$er or a similar program, you can create "custom" dayparts to look at any hour or group of hours you want. While the printed book only does 6-10/10-3/3-7/7-Mid, you can arrange Max data to look at any timeframe you want (ie. 5-9/9-2/2-7). Still, you're right. If the book considers morning drive to be 6-10, why do many stations pull the plug at 9am? Why do many midday shifts go from 9-2 instead of 10-3? Doesn't it make more sense for the airshift to match up with the book? On the other hand, you could argue that by 9:00am, most people are at work or school... and they may not be able to listen to the radio anymore. (Lite 98.7 or Mix is more likely to be "tolerated" by co-workers and customers than Keeler, for example.)

There is one part that I agree with, the station is not known and there has been no advertising for where he is going. How are people going to know that he's on WXUR...November 1 is not far off and I have heard nothing! So we agree to disagree on most and agree on some.

Admittedly, I don't get to listen to morning radio very often... but if Keeler were smart, he would have already been plugging the move by now, much like Stern plugged the living daylights out of Sirius as he approached his switch. And I agree with Dave, the show would naturally do better on a station where it fits in better with the format from the rest of the day. I'm thinking of places like auto repair shops, where they likely just set the knob and nobody ever touches it. (Be it out of laziness, or not wanting to get grease all over the radio.) As much as they might love Keeler, they probably don't want to hear Beyonce and Justin Timberlake all day afterwards... so they leave it on WRCK or WOUR instead.

That thought also makes me wonder if Stern's switch to satellite may have stolen some of Keeler's audience. Stern never had a Utica affiliate, but you could pick him up (if you were lucky) from Albany or Syracuse. Once he went to satellite, it didn't matter if you were in just the right place to get these out-of-town stations... you could just buy Sirius, hook it up, and you're all set. Of course, Arbitron still doesn't factor in satellite radio, at least not in Utica-Rome... so I don't even know if that's a valid point.

 

[Radknowski]

That thought also makes me wonder if Stern's switch to satellite may have stolen some of Keeler's audience. Stern never had a Utica affiliate, but you could pick him up (if you were lucky) from Albany or Syracuse.

Interesting speculation.

It would have cost a bundle for any operator to bring Stern into U-R and likely not worth the investment. BTW, when's the last time we heard a big buzz about Strern lately? Seems the buzz going down these days is all about the geriatric Don Imus.

If Stern had been on terrestrial radio U-R, it's likely he would have obliterated Keeler. In this regard, Keeler may have been the "Stern" figure in the market, which is why he pulled big numbers.

In many medium markets, such as Rochester, Syracuse and even Buffalo, morning drive commutes are short (15-30 minutes) and morning drive is essentially done around 8:30 to 8:45, unless there's bad weather and traffic is snarled. By 8:45 to 9;00, decisions have been made at the office as to what station will be tuned in for office listening.

It seems this thread bears out the fact that if a personality like Keeler is to be successful, he has to be on a station that's compatible with what he does on his show. In this regard, he may be far more successful on WXUR, a station with an Oldies-Classic Hits format than he was on Kiss with a CHR-Churban format.

Next consideration, the signal.

And you wonder if Regent should have picked up Keeler for WIBX, which would have allowed that station to attract some listeners under 60. Keeler's act may have been too extreeme for WIBX, but there's no doubt he could have modified it to accomodate news-talk, maybe even in morning drive.

 

[Dave4120]

Hello...I will agree with you 100% that Keeler has a better opportunity of gaining larger numbers with the Oldies format on WXUR than KISS, however, WXUR has never been a factor in the market. So, Bill will really have to count on his talent and ability to get back some of his old audience that might have not made the switch to KISS when he was there because of format. Obviously, the die-hard Keeler fan will listen to him no matter what station he is on, but if hardly anyone listens to WXUR, it just seems to me, a very difficult, but not impossible task to get big numbers. Even IMUS only had marginal numbers for WXUR and it was mainly men 45 and over, that's it.

And even though most listeners of today do not pay attention to sound quality, WXUR's lower quality and sometimes handmade equipment does not sound half as good as any other station.

Just my opinion, but I also agree that Keeler could have done wonders for WIBX in a toned down fashion. WIBX needs an injection of upbeat programming and delivery of their news. And let's face it, most of the news they do from 5-AM-9-AM isn't local news. There's about 5-minutes of local news per hour on a busy day and the remaining hour of each hour are CBS features and other syndicated short features, along with ads and PSA's. Not what I call an exciting hour of local news.

Keeler could have mixed in his humor and bits, taken calls, then you mix in the local news, sports, etc, as part of each hour in a fast paced style, then at the top of the hour air FOX News, and get rid of the stoneage CBS news that can put anyone to sleep, permanetly.

Again, I hope Keeler does well.

 

[Thebeated]

Keeler is on 6am Thursday WXUR. No comment as to why he's off right now. Even he is not talking...which means something is up. His staff doesn't even know why. Normally he would be all over the tv and newspaper building hype...but he's staying quiet. There has to be something going on...but he is on the air Thurs, I know that for a fact.