Any experience with Orban Optimod PC-1100?

[gtomas]

You post your opinions and speculations as if they are fact. There is a difference, and that can be perceived as misrepresentation. Unless you have direct or deep access to a product, then you cannot really and truly know or understand what it does. Processing is subjective enough, without having others make claims that are not on the mark.

In my earlier post, which you referenced, I explained what can cause a delay in the release of a product. You, later, went online and stated that we are having delays, when you did not have the facts.

Hence my reply to you.

Frank,

I merely re-interpreted what you told us ourselves. But you're right - I have no facts and therefore I have no clue what I'm talking about.

I've decided to include a disclaimer in every my post that has any reference to Omnia. I know it won't make you as happy as if I stopped from commenting Omnia all together, but I'm not prepared to do that. Hopefully the disclaimer will do it.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

OMNIA DISCLAIMER: Everything I write about Omnia products and Omnia company is my own subjective opinion and should be treated as such. Any "facts" including opinions or speculations that appear as facts, are merely my subjective (mis)interpretations and therefore can be completely wrong. You should probably be best of by discarding anything I have to say about Omnia.

 

[CalifZeke]

Frank,

I merely re-interpreted what you told us ourselves. But you're right - I have no facts and therefore I have no clue what I'm talking about.

I've decided to include a disclaimer in every my post that has any reference to Omnia. I know it won't make you as happy as if I stopped from commenting Omnia all together, but I'm not prepared to do that. Hopefully the disclaimer will do it.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

OMNIA DISCLAIMER: Everything I write about Omnia products and Omnia company is my own subjective opinion and should be treated as such. Any "facts" including opinions or speculations that appear as facts, are merely my subjective (mis)interpretations and therefore can be completely wrong. You should probably be best of by discarding anything I have to say about Omnia.

Appears quite arrogant. Not sure how much radio engineering you have done, but you do posture yourself as a "know it all." Not sure this type of response was needed, just because someone challenged you about your claims.

 

[gtomas]

CalifZeke, whoever you are...

This is not the first time, nor it is the second time... This interpretation of ill intention whenever I give my opinion that tends to put (even just slightly) any of the Omnia competitor(s) in front. Or this (now already ridiculous) emphasizing that it's "one man's opinion" whenever anybody says he doesn't like something about Omnia or prefers how the other processor sounds. In the post that triggered this I put "in my opinion" in two out of three paragraphs (guess I should have put it in the third as well). So far I always tried to explain nicely to this reactions that this has been my experience and my preference and I always agree that's it's just my opinion. Because that's exactly what it is. But I'm getting tired of explaining. Hence the disclaimer. I've cut the last sentence and the irony, but the disclaimer stays.

Frankly, I think that such extreme competitiveness and sensitivity of some Omnia people is starting to get the best of them... Whenever they see a post that does not put Omnia in the shiniest light, they feel the urge to react and correct that opinion. OK, correct me on the facts, give the sales numbers, put whatever spin you want... But you can't change my preferences. That's pointless. And please understand that I'm not "against you" because I happen to like something else (and I'm saying it here).


Regards,
Goran Tomas

DISCLAIMER: Everything I write about Omnia products and Omnia company is my own subjective opinion and should be treated as such. Any "facts" including opinions or speculations that appear as facts, are merely my subjective interpretations and therefore can be wrong.

 

[oldiesstation]

Goran, i have been around more processors than you probably will ever see.people may have a particular brand perception and that is fine.ii've used and installed them all.Daps, inovonics, Harris,Aphex, Orban, Omnia and the Dsp-extra.the majority of engs i know seem to prefer the Omnia,especially the O6.IMHO as far as Orban ,the 8100 and the gentners were the best analog ever.Never got the 8200 to sound good for my ears.so it is apparent you like Orban and that is fine.Now would be a good time to smoke the peace pipe and move along to other things.one more thing, i have never had better support than Omnia and Scott at BW.Very poor Orban support..You may knock Frank Foti if you want but it is true that Omnia brought the first REAL digital box to market that caused lots of markets to finally give up the analog boxes.i admire most of your posts and know you are very intelligent on processing, just tone it down some.thanks

 

[CalifZeke]

CalifZeke, whoever you are...

This is not the first time, nor it is the second time... This interpretation of ill intention whenever I give my opinion that tends to put (even just slightly) any of the Omnia competitor(s) in front. Or this (now already ridiculous) emphasizing that it's "one man's opinion" whenever anybody says he doesn't like something about Omnia or prefers how the other processor sounds. In the post that triggered this I put "in my opinion" in two out of three paragraphs (guess I should have put it in the third as well). So far I always tried to explain nicely to this reactions that this has been my experience and my preference and I always agree that's it's just my opinion. Because that's exactly what it is. But I'm getting tired of explaining. Hence the disclaimer. I've cut the last sentence and the irony, but the disclaimer stays.

Frankly, I think that such extreme competitiveness and sensitivity of some Omnia people is starting to get the best of them... Whenever they see a post that does not put Omnia in the shiniest light, they feel the urge to react and correct that opinion. OK, correct me on the facts, give the sales numbers, put whatever spin you want... But you can't change my preferences. That's pointless. And please understand that I'm not "against you" because I happen to like something else (and I'm saying it here).


Regards,
Goran Tomas

DISCLAIMER: Everything I write about Omnia products and Omnia company is my own subjective opinion and should be treated as such. Any "facts" including opinions or speculations that appear as facts, are merely my subjective interpretations and therefore can be wrong.

You question who I am? The arrogance continues...

Just because I choose to lurk, and do not post as often as you, doesn't mean I'm any less. Maybe we need to question who you are, or what you have done? My guess is that you're a young up-start in radio, have some experience, like audio processing, and have proclaimed yourself a guru.

Just because someone challenged your comments, you feel the need to be mean. Not sure you are being fair, or without emotion on this.

I have to agree with oldiestation, as many people continue to choose Omnia. The radio marketplace does not buy audio processing because of clever marketing. They buy what sounds better. I've been in radio for a long time, and that is how it has been, and it still remains. If you like Orban, that is fine. Then you should consider talking about Orban, and allow others to decide for themselves about other products.

 

[gtomas]

You may knock Frank Foti if you want but it is true that Omnia brought the first REAL digital box to market that caused lots of markets to finally give up the analog boxes.i admire most of your posts and know you are very intelligent on processing, just tone it down some.thanks

Oldiesstation,

Thank you for your comment. But I don't think I'm knocking anybody down, Frank Foti included. That is certainly not my intention. I'm here to give and share opinions and just because I think Orban is doing something better than Omnia, does not mean I have anything against Omnia or Frank. Or that I don't wish them success. Actually, believe it or not, my whole point was to give incentive for their more success by making a more competitive PC product (more competitive, of course, in my opinion).

I'm not black&white, pro Orban and against Omnia. I use Omnia-6 processor on one of the two stations I work for and I've used all other Omnia-fm processors as well. I'm just not thrilled with it as most of the other Omnia users, I suppose, are. It has some advantages, no doubt, over competition. But I also think competition, in this case Orban, does certain things better and has some advantages over Omnia. This is (guess what?) my opinion.

What I belive, however, is that one should be able to express opinion freely and not be accused of ill intention because he doesn't like something about the product or thinks one company is doing more in certain market segment than the other. For example, you have been writing quite a few bad posts about Orban and I don't see anybody from Orban coming here and telling you that you shouldn't comment on them, because they don't like what you're saying. Of course the designer doesn't necessarily like if you have something negative to say about his product or, in this case, that you think a competitor has a better product. But the designers are not objective. And they have an interest. Just to be clear, I don't mind their comments at all. On the contrary, I welcome them wholeheartedly! I think we can all learn something from them and not just about their products. But I think they are crossing the line when they ask you, me or anybody else to suppress their opinion because they don't like it. Or they think you're "misrepresenting" them. Of course they think that! I'm sure Bob, from his point of view, thinks you're misrepresenting Orban. Like I said to Frank, correct me on the facts, give your arguments, say you don't agree, explain why... Don't ask me to curtail my opinions on your product, because that's when you're trying to set the rules of this board to suit your (business) interests. And this board is not about your business interests. It's about the interests of us, users. It's about getting unbiased, uncensored opinions and free discussions on things related to radio engineering. And drawing our own conclusions based on what everybody, including designers, have to say.

I can't blame Frank for trying to suppress comments he doesn't like. But I don't think we (I, in this case) should cave-in to this pressure. I'm quite sure I've missed some comments from some people because of this pressure, that I've been witnessing for quite some time now (and not on this board only). I know I've kept some comments to myself in the past, that I would otherwise share.

Me thinks that people who read this board are quite capable of drawing their own conclusions, and deciding which opinions have merit, who's opinion they will take into account and who's they won't. We don't need designers silencing anybody.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

DISCLAIMER: Everything I write about Omnia products and Omnia company is my own subjective opinion and should be treated as such. Any "facts" including opinions or speculations that may appear as facts, are my subjective interpretations and therefore can be wrong.

 

[gtomas]

Maybe we need to question who you are, or what you have done? My guess is that you're a young up-start in radio, have some experience, like audio processing, and have proclaimed yourself a guru.

I'm certainly not a guru, nor I have proclaimed myself anything. Processing is my passion and I like to discuss it with others, share experience and learn more in the process.

As far as the rest of your comment goes, like I said above - I'm sure every participant and reader of this board can decide for himself experience, competence and credibility of anyone who posts here. Me included.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[oldiesstation]

very well put.i don't dislike Orban, i've used their products.never was real pleased with some of the tech support, but hey everyone has those days i guess.but BSW still tells me the omnia 6 outsells the orban 8500 by a pretty good margin..Omnia boxes just seem to have much better clarity while still having that loud open sound, that i've never got from the orban boxes...But i wish you all the best and keep the posts coming.gee, sometimes i wish i had my old urei la3 back, what a great analog device....But digital is in and may the best CODE win.

 

[FFoti1]

I can't blame Frank for trying to suppress comments he doesn't like. But I don't think we (I, in this case) should cave-in to this pressure. I'm quite sure I've missed some comments from some people because of this pressure, that I've been witnessing for quite some time now (and not on this board only). I know I've kept some comments to myself in the past, that I would otherwise share.

Me thinks that people who read this board are quite capable of drawing their own conclusions, and deciding which opinions have merit, who's opinion they will take into account and who's they won't. We don't need designers silencing anybody.

Goran,

I too believe you're getting a bit over the top on this. For the record, I have not tried to suppress anyone's comments. I have challenged comments from you and others, when it's been obvious to me that these comments, be they opinion or other, were not properly representing our product(s). That is not the designer trying to silence anybody. It's actually trying to set the record straight. If you feel differently, then please offer proof, instead of comment and opinion.

I've asked you numerous times to discuss various processing issues. You'll share a few comments via e-mail, then disappear. Later on, whatever the topic we were discussing in private, appears from you as a public comment in the form of your "opinion." I'll challenge you, and your response is with anger, when questioned.

If you'd like to discuss further, please contact me off-list.

-Frank Foti

 

[BrokeEngineer]

Yeah cause Frank doesn't want anyone to know he is designing the 7EX-HD-FX-M-O-U-S-E on a napkin, while sharing a beer with Ted Alexander at Shooters in the flats.
Kidding Frank, I kid...
G

 

[FFoti1]

Yeah cause Frank doesn't want anyone to know he is designing the 7EX-HD-FX-M-O-U-S-E on a napkin, while sharing a beer with Ted Alexander at Shooters in the flats.
Kidding Frank, I kid...
G

Actually, there have been late night sessions where stuff *did* get designed on the back of a napkin. My partner, Steve Church, and I would meet up for late dinner, and our conversations would inevitably turn to some design idea, and before you know it, the waitress was bringing us a stack of napkins. True story!

-Frank Foti

 

[gtomas]

I've asked you numerous times to discuss various processing issues. You'll share a few comments via e-mail, then disappear. Later on, whatever the topic we were discussing in private, appears from you as a public comment in the form of your "opinion." I'll challenge you, and your response is with anger, when questioned.

If you'd like to discuss further, please contact me off-list.

Frank,

I only get upset when you try to turn my comments into something they are not or when you imply I shouldn't comment Omnia products because it happens you don't like what I have to say. I'm all for setting the records straight, etc, as long as everybody feels free to express their opinions. The group and individuals on this board are quite capable of filtering relevant opinions on their own and for themselves.

As far as the rest of your comment goes, I'm replying off-list...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[FFoti1]

I've asked you numerous times to discuss various processing issues. You'll share a few comments via e-mail, then disappear. Later on, whatever the topic we were discussing in private, appears from you as a public comment in the form of your "opinion." I'll challenge you, and your response is with anger, when questioned.

If you'd like to discuss further, please contact me off-list.

Frank,

I only get upset when you try to turn my comments into something they are not or when you imply I shouldn't comment Omnia products because it happens you don't like what I have to say. I'm all for setting the records straight, etc, as long as everybody feels free to express their opinions. The group and individuals on this board are quite capable of filtering relevant opinions on their own and for themselves.

As far as the rest of your comment goes, I'm replying off-list...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

Goran,

The problem is that you post opinions as factual and other readers are influenced. Since you made another claim of defense in public, I'll provide a public example. Here's a post, from another board, and your response:

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Goran Tomas
> The Omnia6EX will give you more power and life than Omnia5EX.
>
> As far as Omnia6EX vs Orban 8500 goes, this is when things get
> subjective... There's a lot of difference in how these two processors
> operate and how they sound. With that in mind, it is my experience
> that Omnia processors are generally pretty bright and sharp sounding,
> so if you're looking for that kind of sound, Omnia might be a better
> choice. OTOH, I find Orban 8500 to be warmer and more natural than
> Omnia6EX. I also think it's a better all-round performer.
>
>
> Regards,
> Goran Tomas

>[RT] Omnia choices vs. Orban choices
>ebukont at comcast.net
>Wed Nov 22 21:44:16 CST 2006

>To me, bright and sharp and crisp and all that are not qualities I want when trying to tame multipath and fringe >reception issues.

--
>Ed Bukont
>Comm-Struction
>Baltimore, MD 21224

>Systems Integrator for HD Radio Station # 1,000!! WIYY-FM, Baltimore, Md.

<end of message>

The Omnia is capable of being as dull and boring, or bright and crisp as an end-user desires. This person was negatively influenced by your comments/opinions. This is where the problem is. Had you fully understood the product better, then you would have known this. Since it appears you do not, yet you are ready to make a misrepresentative comment, I have to challenge your credibilty.

Maybe you did not mean for your comment to be taken in this context, but it was. Additionally, I have observed where you have made comments about processing products (ours and others) that I know were not true. Hence, my comments to you.

-Frank Foti

 

[wgliradio]

I think what Goran meant is that it is easier to get an Omnia to sound open/brighter/more "transparent" than an Orban. Optimods also can sound bright and transparent, but usually they're very easy if you want more depth to the sound (Oldies or rock). Even when set very transparent, I know I am still listening to an Optimod w/o having to look at the box to see the label (and that's not a bad thing).

This is an opinion that is shared by many, including myself. However, it's good that the marketplace has different options.

I know Ed and I know he recently purchased an 8500 from reading one of the other listservers... but I doubt very much he was influenced by something on a message board alone to make a $13,000 decision. Opinion is opinon and when you come to something as subjective as sound processing, opinions run fast and furious. Some are fact and some opinions come from preference in sound.. and the two brands sound different.

I know some engineers in New York who don't like the Omnia AM processors... some love it. I swear by Orban for AM, it' s my preference and I've done a demo shootout with both boxes at the transmitter site at the SAME TIME (and to be fair, the Omnia was already bought and paid for and the one he really wanted to keep, while the Orban was a demo... yet he bought it after the demo and sold the Omnia, the Orban was more towards the sound he wanted). It doesn't mean it's right for everyone. You know of success stories across the globe for your products, inclduing right here in New York. Both brands sound different... if they didn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation and you wouldn't get 40 different replies from 40 people about audio processing.

 

[ElCheapo]

You might enjoy reading this thread Frank:

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,48824.0.html

It's a somewhat enlightening look into Goran's thoughts on processing.

It appears he's somewhat of a purist in the Orban tradition.

 

[gtomas]

The problem is that you post opinions as factual

Frank, please notice that in my post below I pointed out that all opinions are subjective. I also clearly said "it is my experience"... Nothing is factual here. In fact no opinion (however put) can't be factual.

and other readers are influenced. Since you made another claim of defense in public, I'll provide a public example. Here's a post, from another board, and your response:

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Goran Tomas
> The Omnia6EX will give you more power and life than Omnia5EX.
>
> As far as Omnia6EX vs Orban 8500 goes, this is when things get
> subjective... There's a lot of difference in how these two processors
> operate and how they sound. With that in mind, it is my experience
> that Omnia processors are generally pretty bright and sharp sounding,
> so if you're looking for that kind of sound, Omnia might be a better
> choice. OTOH, I find Orban 8500 to be warmer and more natural than
> Omnia6EX. I also think it's a better all-round performer.
>
>
> Regards,
> Goran Tomas

>[RT] Omnia choices vs. Orban choices
>ebukont at comcast.net
>Wed Nov 22 21:44:16 CST 2006

>To me, bright and sharp and crisp and all that are not qualities I want when trying to tame multipath and fringe >reception issues.

--
>Ed Bukont

The Omnia is capable of being as dull and boring, or bright and crisp as an end-user desires. This person was negatively influenced by your comments/opinions.

You give too much weight to opinions. Earlier in this thread you said clever marketing don't sell processors, performance and sound do. I fully agree. Just as well, people don't buy processors based on opinions they don't trust.

Regarding Ed, I'd say he likes to make his own opinions. He made out of my comment what he made out of it. I'm sure other comments as well as his experience influenced this as well. Finally, his GM already decided what he wanted to buy so it's a moot point anyway.

My comment may appear negative to you (as I suppose all 'I like something about XY better than Omnia' comments), but it's intention is not to be negative. I'm posting what has been my experience and what is my opinion of the product. Ed took bright as negative, somebody could just as easily find that's what he's looking for because he finds Orbans muddy. It has been my experience with Omnias, particularly Omnia-6 to be brighter compared to others. The unit has been designed with in a certain way and with the certain character and it makes it more difficult to tame it down in satisfactory way. For me.

But again, I can't get away from the impression that you're trying to supress opinions that to you appear as negative, IOW opinions that in some way favor another brand. It's my strong belief that you shouldn't do that. It's not democratic and in the end it's not beneficial to anyone.

This is where the problem is. Had you fully understood the product better, then you would have known this. Since it appears you do not, yet you are ready to make a misrepresentative comment, I have to challenge your credibility.

If you're telling me that you can make Omnia sound like Orban, I disagree. Or that you can make any processor (Orban or Omnia) play any way you want. You can't. They all have certain character and temperament that the designer intended and if you want to make it play against itself, too bad, it won't work (good).

Maybe you did not mean for your comment to be taken in this context, but it was. Additionally, I have observed where you have made comments about processing products (ours and others) that I know were not true. Hence, my comments to you.

If you're referring to my claim that Orban 8100/XT2 was/is better than Omnia.3fm (despite many of your customers who traded their Orbans for Omnia) I still stand by it. In fact, I think you're doing a disservice to yourself by trying to argue that, but that's just my opinion...


Regards,
Goran Tomas

 

[FFoti1]

I think what Goran meant is that it is easier to get an Omnia to sound open/brighter/more "transparent" than an Orban. Optimods also can sound bright and transparent, but usually they're very easy if you want more depth to the sound (Oldies or rock). Even when set very transparent, I know I am still listening to an Optimod w/o having to look at the box to see the label (and that's not a bad thing).

If that is what he meant, then he should have said it as such. Instead his post was misleading. All the more reason why, when discussing audio processing, the writer needs to clarify himself as best as possible. The subjective nature of processing makes this so. It is way too easy to make a comment and have it misunderstood. All the more reason why I try to clarify my own posts, and actually read them numerous times before posting.

What happens here on these boards, is that "opinions" are offered as if they are fact. I respond to the posts where it is obvious to me, that the information posted was wrong, or it was misleading. This is the case with Goran, and sadly he does like it, when I challenge him.

I fully understand that processing is subjective, and to some it seems it has become personal. My hope is that when these net discussions arise, those who choose to participate will offer valid and honest information. My view is that many times there are folks who are trying to discredit this brand or that brand. I seem to notice that whenever a post is made about "brand-A," others have to chime in and either slam it, or debate competitively about "brand-B." If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything. That's what my mom used to tell me.

-Frank Foti

 

[FFoti1]

This is where the problem is. Had you fully understood the product better, then you would have known this. Since it appears you do not, yet you are ready to make a misrepresentative comment, I have to challenge your credibility.

If you're telling me that you can make Omnia sound like Orban, I disagree. Or that you can make any processor (Orban or Omnia) play any way you want. You can't. They all have certain character and temperament that the designer intended and if you want to make it play against itself, too bad, it won't work (good).

But again, I can't get away from the impression that you're trying to supress opinions that to you appear as negative, IOW opinions that in some way favor another brand. It's my strong belief that you shouldn't do that. It's not democratic and in the end it's not beneficial to anyone.

Regards,
Goran Tomas

No Goran, that is not what I'm saying. I do not believe you understand our product well enough in order to make a valid observation. Had you understood it, then you would also have known that the Omnia can sound as dull, or as bright as one would want it.

Yet, you speak, or position yourself, like that of one who really knows what they are talking about. When you offer comments, as you have, I question your credibility.

Just because I challenge your comments, or incorrect observations DOES NOT mean that I'm suprressing your comments. It appears that you are not comfortable when your opinion is not accepted. Then you feel that your view is being suppressed. You do not know what it means to be suppressed.

-Frank Foti

 

[wgliradio]

If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything. That's what my mom used to tell me.

-Frank Foti

I agree, but when the investment is a 5 figure sum, feelings run high. The best bet again is the old saying.. try them all

 

[gtomas]

No Goran, that is not what I'm saying. I do not believe you understand our product well enough in order to make a valid observation. Had you understood it, then you would also have known that the Omnia can sound as dull, or as bright as one would want it.

Well, that is your opinion and you're entitled to it. My experience slightly differs. Which I think is nothing out of the ordinary. It's impossible to satisfy everyone's tastes and preferences, wouldn't you agree?

You must have been reading people here who were not exactly satisfied with Orban. I don't see that all this fuss about one who's not exactly satisfied with Omnia is necessary.

Just because I challenge your comments, or incorrect observations DOES NOT mean that I'm suprressing your comments. It appears that you are not comfortable when your opinion is not accepted. Then you feel that your view is being suppressed. You do not know what it means to be suppressed.

I'm sorry, but that's the impression I got...


Regards,
Goran Tomas