Anybody see O and A's "ratings"?

[TowerBuzz]

Actually and unfortunately that is not true. they got waxed in most of their markets. They really flamed out big time. The problem is being O and A no one will be able to tell them to make any adjustments to the show. The show which they are really phoning in these days as they are now rich and lazy. Sad but true.

WYSP's up.

BCN's up.

Do not talk like you're an expert. Maybe, just maybe, these ratings will be a wakeup call to O&A to have them get their act together. They have a PD who's been on the job all of three months. The new lineup just started this month.

Uh you would have to show me those numbers because the ones that i saw were not "Up". Sorry I wish they were killing but it's not happening so far.

 

[Starscream]

I really hate it when people can't use the quote function properly.

Look, this is going to be a circular argument until the station shows some signs of stability. The new PD and the new lineup is the first sign. Doghouse listeners will continue to tout their ratings, O&A haters will smash them, etc. etc.

If the show quality doesn't change and this trend continues in the next book, then I'll wave the white flag and indicate that something's wrong.

 

[TowerBuzz]

Gee whiz and I really hate when people just keep beating the same drum becase they like a show regardless of what the show does numbers wise. So I guess we're even Starscream.

:

 

[Tony9000]

What has me think is how long with CBS run with this format if the station can not get back to the 3.5 share it once had. WFNY was CBS's flagship station and it booked big ad money. They flipping stations all the time, so it makes me wonder if they would ever fold on the FreeFM idea. The PD has now placed a line-up in place, but the problem is that the numbers did not come in that good. I agree with Tower, O & A have a big name in New York and should really be showing better numbers. Also agree if the show is not working as per the numbers, change things to make it work.

 

[SmashTim]

As starscream pointed out they were up in Philly & Boston

So? This is New York. Not Boston or Philadelphia.

I was refuting the point that they were down in their other major markets as well, which isn't true.

 

[radiolover78]

Point is, some shows may do well in some markets, but it doesn't mean it will do well in other markets.

Your serve Foe Paw.

 

[Starscream]

What has me think is how long with CBS run with this format if the station can not get back to the 3.5 share it once had. WFNY was CBS's flagship station and it booked big ad money. They flipping stations all the time, so it makes me wonder if they would ever fold on the FreeFM idea. The PD has now placed a line-up in place, but the problem is that the numbers did not come in that good. I agree with Tower, O & A have a big name in New York and should really be showing better numbers. Also agree if the show is not working as per the numbers, change things to make it work.

You do realize that the current ratings do not reflect this lineup, correct?

 

[Tony9000]

What has me think is how long with CBS run with this format if the station can not get back to the 3.5 share it once had. WFNY was CBS's flagship station and it booked big ad money. They flipping stations all the time, so it makes me wonder if they would ever fold on the FreeFM idea. The PD has now placed a line-up in place, but the problem is that the numbers did not come in that good. I agree with Tower, O & A have a big name in New York and should really be showing better numbers. Also agree if the show is not working as per the numbers, change things to make it work.

You do realize that the current ratings do not reflect this lineup, correct?

No it does not , but the station breaks it down for themselves. I was waiting to hear, this is all JV and Elvis's fault. You can not fault a show that moved up 30% from the earlier book.

 

[SmashTim]

What has me think is how long with CBS run with this format if the station can not get back to the 3.5 share it once had. WFNY was CBS's flagship station and it booked big ad money. They flipping stations all the time, so it makes me wonder if they would ever fold on the FreeFM idea. The PD has now placed a line-up in place, but the problem is that the numbers did not come in that good. I agree with Tower, O & A have a big name in New York and should really be showing better numbers. Also agree if the show is not working as per the numbers, change things to make it work.

You do realize that the current ratings do not reflect this lineup, correct?

No it does not , but the station breaks it down for themselves. I was waiting to hear, this is all JV and Elvis's fault. You can not fault a show that moved up 30% from the earlier book.

You do realize that they were much lower than O&A and still below O&A right??

I'm not saying (nor is anyone else suggesting) that O&A's drop is due to JV & Elvis. They still had a bad book regardless. however, what is true is that the 9-10 am hour did drag down the morning overall numbers as well as the target demos. Again, still a bad book for O&A, but due to the 9-10 hour not being there show O&a's numbers appear lower than what they really are. Now doing a breakdown here of what we know (mornings & afternoons a 1.6, & a 1.2 overall, it is quite unlikely that even with JV & Elvis's 30% inbcrease they aren't above 1.0 and probably a tad under it (the math simply doesn't work out otherwise, unless they have something around a .3 in evenings which while we know its bad, its very unlikely to be that bad. So doing the math you have middays at a 1.0 at best (and probably .8 or .9) assuming the 9-10 hour has similar ratings to the rest of their shift and you count that in that slot, O&A's 12 + while they are on the air are 1.8 or 1.9, with a possibility of a 2.0. Given these numbers the changes in their target demos are probably between .4 - .5 higher than what they appear men 18+, and anywhere from .7 to about 1.1 or so higher than what they appear 18-34 an 25-54 (based off a .2 to .3 bump in overall numbers and how that would typically translate mathamatically to the various demos

My numbers aren't an exact science obviously, as we don't know the exact numbers from the middays & evenings. but doing basic math you can figure out that middays must be quite a bit lower than mornings because mornings & afternoons are both at a 1.6, and overall they are at a 1.2. A change of .2 or .3 overall is obviously going to be larger than that in their target demos.

I

 

[pfa]

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/en...in/qa_forum.htm

""Q: Do you have any info on how O&A did overall or in their demos this book? Their numbers went down in New York but I see WYSP is up overall.
Anonymous 1/14/07

A: O&A did so-so. They were 4th among men 18-34, behind MMR, Wired and the Beat. Overall, WYSP is 4th among men 18-34. Its bright spot is Kidd Chris, who is 2d in his time period. Barsky/Matt & Huggy are 3d at middays. (I can't break out hour by hour so I'm counting 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.) Couzin Ed, axed in the middle of the ratings period, was tied for 10th at night.
Michael Klein 1/15/07"

Let's call Philly and Boston their two "strong" markets, because they're the only two places O&A aren't outright sucking shit. Even in Philly they are only 4th in their CORE demo where they should be at their strongest. Forget ever being anywhere near #1 overall, to be a top show even by the internal rules of radio you should not only be #1 in your chosen demo, you should be smashing it. There are only a handful of stations in the market that are actually built to target M18-34, so in reality that probably puts them 4th out five in their strongest demo in one of their two top cities by far.

The afternoon and midday shows are 2nd and 3rd respectively, so no blaming the station dragging them down! Their timeslot's ratings are actually lifted in the fourth hour by the more successful Matt & Huggy."."

 

[SmashTim]

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/en...in/qa_forum.htm

""Q: Do you have any info on how O&A did overall or in their demos this book? Their numbers went down in New York but I see WYSP is up overall.
Anonymous 1/14/07

A: O&A did so-so. They were 4th among men 18-34, behind MMR, Wired and the Beat. Overall, WYSP is 4th among men 18-34. Its bright spot is Kidd Chris, who is 2d in his time period. Barsky/Matt & Huggy are 3d at middays. (I can't break out hour by hour so I'm counting 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.) Couzin Ed, axed in the middle of the ratings period, was tied for 10th at night.
Michael Klein 1/15/07"

Let's call Philly and Boston their two "strong" markets, because they're the only two places O&A aren't outright sucking ------. Even in Philly they are only 4th in their CORE demo where they should be at their strongest. Forget ever being anywhere near #1 overall, to be a top show even by the internal rules of radio you should not only be #1 in your chosen demo, you should be smashing it. There are only a handful of stations in the market that are actually built to target M18-34, so in reality that probably puts them 4th out five in their strongest demo in one of their two top cities by far.

The afternoon and midday shows are 2nd and 3rd respectively, so no blaming the station dragging them down! Their timeslot's ratings are actually lifted in the fourth hour by the more successful Matt & Huggy."."

Link doesn't work, also without knowing the numbers its hard to say. For example you could be 4th in one slot, and have higher ratings than someone in 3rd at on another time period. Perfect example Z100 has a 5.2 in Mornings, which is 4th overall in mornings, that same 5.2 would be 2nd in afternoons. So it is possible that O&A wile being 4th in their target demo (if true) in Philly could have higher ratings and be close to the top slot than someone who is 2nd in that demo, but in another time slot.

 

[Talking Furniture]

So, you're saying that O&A might be beating someone on another station in another daypart? Interesting strategy. It's like the losing football team on the early game scoring enough points to say they beat the winner of the the afternoon game.

 

[SmashTim]

So, you're saying that O&A might be beating someone on another station in another daypart? Interesting strategy. It's like the losing football team on the early game scoring enough points to say they beat the winner of the the afternoon game.

No thats not what I'm saying. In New York, O&A's ratings are lower than they appear because a show with lower ratings is in the 9-10 slot and is included in the ratings. Another poster mentioned that O&A were 4th in men 18-34 in mornings in Philly, the mid-day slot is 3rd men 18-34 in that category. The poster than proceeded to make the claim because the midday slot was #3 18-34 and the morning slot was #4 18-34 that the midday show was higher rated and did not bring down the oerall and demo ratings in the morning. I was simply pointing out that we have no real way of telling if that is true or not. Its quite possible to be 4th in one time period, and have ratings that are higher than a station ranked 3rd in another slot on the same station. I used Z 100 as an example because they are 34 in mornings, and #3 n afternoons, despite their morning ratings because almost a full share higher than their afternoon ratings. So without knowing what the midday ratings are in Philly, we can't state that they are higher than the morning ratings, nor can we state that the 9-10 hour is not lower rated than the 6-9 slot. therefore we can't state that having another show in the 9-10 hour did not pull down O&A's numbers. We can't state it had and impact of any variety in Philly (either pulling them up, dragging them down, or the same) withut having a better understanding of what the numbers actually are. We were able to do that with the NY numbers because we had more information, and more numbers in which we could do the math to get the midday numbers. We don't have enough information and numbers in YSP's case in order to do the math to find out what those midday ratings are.

 

[Radaioman]

I think O and A have done a very funny job of bashing Howard and catching him in lies...( I am a big fan of both shows)....but I wonder how this helps them. I laughed at Howard's expense..but...now that they are on Howard's stations and oward is off terrestrial radio, bashing him on terrestrial plays to their old fans but might offend Howard's old listeners that they should be trying to court.

On XM, they aren't gaining new listeners by bashing Howard because only XM and DirecTV subscribers hear them...a casual listener can't. I know it doesn't happen often anymore, but Howard listeners, even if they didn't follow him to Sirius, are loyal to him and don't want to be made to feel like they were stupid to have been listening to him while O AND A were on a paid 2 year vacation. Too bad they didn't try to embrace those men who needed a free alternative to Sirius........it couldn't have hurt...it sure hasn't helped to bash...no matter how funny it was. And it was!

 

[TowerBuzz]

So, you're saying that O&A might be beating someone on another station in another daypart? Interesting strategy. It's like the losing football team on the early game scoring enough points to say they beat the winner of the the afternoon game.

No thats not what I'm saying. In New York, O&A's ratings are lower than they appear because a show with lower ratings is in the 9-10 slot and is included in the ratings. Another poster mentioned that O&A were 4th in men 18-34 in mornings in Philly, the mid-day slot is 3rd men 18-34 in that category. The poster than proceeded to make the claim because the midday slot was #3 18-34 and the morning slot was #4 18-34 that the midday show was higher rated and did not bring down the oerall and demo ratings in the morning. I was simply pointing out that we have no real way of telling if that is true or not. Its quite possible to be 4th in one time period, and have ratings that are higher than a station ranked 3rd in another slot on the same station. I used Z 100 as an example because they are 34 in mornings, and #3 n afternoons, despite their morning ratings because almost a full share higher than their afternoon ratings. So without knowing what the midday ratings are in Philly, we can't state that they are higher than the morning ratings, nor can we state that the 9-10 hour is not lower rated than the 6-9 slot. therefore we can't state that having another show in the 9-10 hour did not pull down O&A's numbers. We can't state it had and impact of any variety in Philly (either pulling them up, dragging them down, or the same) withut having a better understanding of what the numbers actually are. We were able to do that with the NY numbers because we had more information, and more numbers in which we could do the math to get the midday numbers. We don't have enough information and numbers in YSP's case in order to do the math to find out what those midday ratings are.

Actually no Tim. yes they are stretched across two dayparts in that the Doghouse 9 am hour is factored into the morning rtaings but truth is that Doghouse have gone up and a rising tide lifts all boats. In other words even though they have had to endure one hour of dog house numbers in their overall ratings, dog house is going up consistently whereas O and A are not. So if anything the 9am hour only helps O and A's numbers, it doesnt hurt them. You guys have to stop making excuses for O and a espeiclaly ones that are not logical. Bottom line is O and A are not what they sued to be and they are not killing like they thought they would. It's pretty simple.

 

[SmashTim]

So, you're saying that O&A might be beating someone on another station in another daypart? Interesting strategy. It's like the losing football team on the early game scoring enough points to say they beat the winner of the the afternoon game.

No thats not what I'm saying. In New York, O&A's ratings are lower than they appear because a show with lower ratings is in the 9-10 slot and is included in the ratings. Another poster mentioned that O&A were 4th in men 18-34 in mornings in Philly, the mid-day slot is 3rd men 18-34 in that category. The poster than proceeded to make the claim because the midday slot was #3 18-34 and the morning slot was #4 18-34 that the midday show was higher rated and did not bring down the oerall and demo ratings in the morning. I was simply pointing out that we have no real way of telling if that is true or not. Its quite possible to be 4th in one time period, and have ratings that are higher than a station ranked 3rd in another slot on the same station. I used Z 100 as an example because they are 34 in mornings, and #3 n afternoons, despite their morning ratings because almost a full share higher than their afternoon ratings. So without knowing what the midday ratings are in Philly, we can't state that they are higher than the morning ratings, nor can we state that the 9-10 hour is not lower rated than the 6-9 slot. therefore we can't state that having another show in the 9-10 hour did not pull down O&A's numbers. We can't state it had and impact of any variety in Philly (either pulling them up, dragging them down, or the same) withut having a better understanding of what the numbers actually are. We were able to do that with the NY numbers because we had more information, and more numbers in which we could do the math to get the midday numbers. We don't have enough information and numbers in YSP's case in order to do the math to find out what those midday ratings are.

Actually no Tim. yes they are stretched across two dayparts in that the Doghouse 9 am hour is factored into the morning rtaings but truth is that Doghouse have gone up and a rising tide lifts all boats. In other words even though they have had to endure one hour of dog house numbers in their overall ratings, dog house is going up consistently whereas O and A are not. So if anything the 9am hour only helps O and A's numbers, it doesnt hurt them. You guys have to stop making excuses for O and a espeiclaly ones that are not logical. Bottom line is O and A are not what they sued to be and they are not killing like they thought they would. It's pretty simple.

For starters do you know for a fact they are going up, or do you just think they went up. Anyway I'm not talking about the 9-10 slot in Philly regarding them going up or down. i'm saying the impact it could have had overall. Even if they went up as you suggested, it is quite possible for them the be in 3rd men 18-34 and have lower ratings in the 9-10 hour, than O&A have 6-9. Therefore the 9-10 hour could bring down the 6-10 ratings, and make O&A's ratings appear lower than what they are. I'm not making excuses. I'm simply stating that we simply don't know enough to state that the Barsky show has higher ratings men 18-34 than O&A do, and we don't know enough, to know what kind of impact he 9-10 slot has on the morning numbers.

Unlike New York, I'm not suggesting that the 9-10 slot brings down their numbers in Philly (we know its the case in NY). We don't have enough information to suggest that they are, However, we don't have enough information to say that they aren't either. We just don't have the information and the numbers to make any real suggestion about what kind of impacts the 9-10 hour has on the morning ratings on YSP, positive, negative, or neutral. Just don't have enough numbers to figure that out either way.

 

[TowerBuzz]

:

yes I KNOW they went up, unlike yourself Ive actually seen ratings.

 

[SmashTim]

:

yes I KNOW they went up, unlike yourself Ive actually seen ratings.

While that might be true, it doesn't change the fact that without more nformation we can't really determmine if the 8-10 makes O&A's #'s higher than what the appear, equal to what they appear or lower than what they appear, and that was my general point. IN NY we can do the math to figure it out because we have enough numbers to do so, in Philly we don't.

 

[SmashTim]

Oops didn't even realize we were talking about two different things here. You were talking doghouse nd I thought you were talking bout Barsky in Philly.

First off as far as New York goes, the doghouse was up, but even with them going up their numbers are still below O&A. As a result the 9-10 hour is the lowest rated in the 6-10 morning slot, which drags down the ratings for O&A. Going up is a good thing obviously, and good for them, however going up doesn't mean they don't have a negative impact on the ratings when its lower than the show before it which shares the same slot. JV & Elvis didn't impact the slide O&A had, but the 1.6 & the various demo numbers appear lower than what they really are because J & Elvis have lower ratings (despite their increase) and the 9-10 slot does drag the average down, because the ratings are lower in that hour than they are from 6-9. again a bad book for O&A, and they did have a drop. I'm not going to argue that, but regarding the raw numbers O&A's ratings are higher than what they appear to be.

Regarding Philly, and Barsky we simply don't know enough, about the midday ratings there to figure out what kind of impact the 9-10 hour has on O&A's numbers.

 

[TowerBuzz]

Tim this is so pointless. They tanked, period, and trying to blame jv and Elvis's one hour for it when their numbers actually went up is absurd. Starscream trying to spin how they went up in Philly and Boston, Boston it is known for a fact that they did not go anywhere but down. So much so that the PD of the competing station put out a press release about how his morning show beat O and A. I would post it here because it went to virtually the entire industry but it contains actual numbers and we're not allowed to post the actual numbers. the second it goes up the mods will take it down. Face it: The boys are not doing anything.