Apathy in Columbus

[xianbroadcaster]

TomTom

Please radio in Columbus is dying. Some people like yourself like the banal top forty radio and dull talk radio. Good thing I can pick up WAIS so I can hear The Power Hour, Alex Jones, Ed Schultz, least one hour of Stephanie Miller. (Rest of her show podcast) Plus WCRS is the only non com station to listen to these days. Morning Edition is a dinosaur and it should be replace by The Takeaway from PRI.

This is the reason why terrestrial radio is dying in Columbus. This is why I have WI FI radio so I can pick up good radio stations. Listen to good radio talkers.

I have WiFi radio as well but I only listen to Internet based radio stations! Terrestrial radio has little to nothing to offer anyone looking for interesting content.

Just my way of piling on radio, a medium I once loved that got boring about 8 years ago or so.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Columbus radio is super-suckola because of the paucity of city-grade signals.  The biggest problem is in lacking so many of the music approaches that are available on good signals in most markets even half the size.  And no, it's not just because research -- or past foregone-conclusion negative outcomes on 90-pound-weakling signals -- "demonstrate" that people here have different tastes.  That's pure BS.

The FCC set the stage for this failure years ago when it under-allocated Columbus with big signals, making it easy to make a buck here even if you put on crap.  The ability to succeed with a poor and stagnant product created a tradition of bad yet highly profitable radio.  And in a market with so few decent signals for its size, consolidation really hurt here more here than elsewhere.  That's why I bristle at Clear Channel's indefensible and irresponsible waste of the first new "big" signal to hit town in 40 (that's FORTY) years.  Of course I'm talking about WLZT.  (My keyboard doesn't even want to type those calls).  It doesn't help that the Mom-n-Pops are also poor operators (again, borne of the local make-money-even-with-crap scenario).

As for air talent, while some are pretty decent, Moe Green makes some excellent points re the stagnancy.

You know, Columbus has traditionally been the nation's kingpin in the "Largest Metropolitan Area That Doesn't Have..." derby.  Thankfully most elements of that distinction have been chipped away in recent years (e.g., lack of pro sports cured -- well, sort of -- by the Blue Jackets).  So maybe the local radio industry is just doing its part to respect Columbus history by preserving the  "Largest Market Without..." tradition.  Yeah, maybe that explains it! 

Ok, now that I've had that insight, I must say I feel better and more accepting of the pathetic radio landscape here!  Nope, it still sucks.   Yes, on the whole, Columbus radio really, really sucks.  I think the only reason I frequent this board now is because I'm a masochist.  If anyone wants to be mean and reply, "Well, then stop coming here," I think I'd find it hard to disagree.  Maybe I should see a shrink about these masochistic tendencies (I put that in the plural because there's another one: subjecting myself to local radio).

 

[V.Riley]

I have WiFi radio as well....

Yeah, gotta get me one of those.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

And in a market with so few decent signals for its size, consolidation really hurt here more here than elsewhere. That's why I bristle at Clear Channel's indefensible and irresponsible waste of the first new "big" signal to hit town in 40 (that's FORTY) years. Of course I'm talking about WLZT. (My keyboard doesn't even want to type those calls).

OK, so let's play a game here.

Instead of Clear Channel moving 93.3 into the Columbus market, you did.

As the person responsible for the first new "big" Columbus market signal in decades...what do YOU do with it? What format would 93.3 have, in your ideal world?

How would you operate it? What kind of programming would you have put on 93.3?

Keep in mind that you don't get to ignore realities of competition, finances and all of the other factors. You still have to make money with the thing...you can't operate it as a public service.

You don't have to make instant cash off of it, in my scenario...but you don't have a bottomless pit of money to pull from.

Tell me why 93.3 "sucks", and how you'd avoid it.

 

[xmusicmatt]

People can say what they want about 93.3 Mhz but realistically you can't expect Clear Channel to do otherwise with it as long as there is a thing called competition... do you really think a company should sit down and let another competitor have the market share for AC formated station ? It's business after all.. its like saying because there is Tropicana Orange Juice that Giant Eagle and Kroger's should not have their own brands. I personally don't listen to 93.3 out side of Christmas time as they don't cater to my tastes but one can't say they don't have listeners after all they do have a 3 + share..

(personally if I owned the station I would program some form of Christian CHR as that's my flavor...) which is different from what we have in the market with the other stations that folks grow to dislike also.


Each is to their own and there will always be folks who disagree.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

OhioMedia and XMatt:

OK, but I’ll just be repeating the kind of stuff  I’ve been saying over and over.  It’s such straightforward logic, but nobody seems to get it.  Or they come up with weak excuses as to why it wouldn’t work here, or wouldn’t make sense for Clear Channel Columbus.  Some people get unjustifiably antagonistic when you talk about stations in other cities, even though radio obviously copies from/tweaks what's worked elsewhere.

SNY is gold-based and on the soft side of mainstream.  BNS is current/recurrent based but edgier.  If you’re going to stay in the AC arena, the obvious hole is in between the two, pretty gold-heavy but edgier and decidedly non-wimpy compared to Sunny.  In other words, like CC’s super-successful AC (full-signalled, of course) in Dayton, WMMX.   Instead, they built WLZT further outside the hole, even softer than Sunny -- i.e., gold-based and super-soft.  (Yes, they play some edgier AC now, but they’re still more oriented toward a Barry Manilow or an England Dan & John Ford Colley, artists MMX would steer far clear of). 

Makes no sense.  Why would this kind of more-differentiated approach make any less sense for WLZT *and* the market than the out-soft Sunny debacle 93.3 is doing now?  Waste of  the first new full signal to come to Columbus in over 40 years.  And that’s just AC.  There are also opportunities -- some of which I would personally like and some of which I wouldn’t -- like AAA, Adult Hits, FM Talk, or upper-demo Classic Rock (like CC’s WOFX in Cincy, which is NOTHING like LVQ -- and then move the Brew a little younger). 

BTW Xmatt, funny you mention grocery stores.  THEIR music systems sound a lot like the mix I just described.  If you want good AC in Columbus, go out for groceries or gas, and you'll get a great mix -- AFTER you turn off the car radio.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Makes no sense. Why would this kind of more-differentiated approach make any less sense for WLZT *and* the market than the out-soft Sunny debacle 93.3 is doing now? Waste of the first new full signal to come to Columbus in over 40 years. And that’s just AC. There are also opportunities -- some of which I would personally like and some of which I wouldn’t -- like AAA, Adult Hits, FM Talk, or upper-demo Classic Rock (like CC’s WOFX in Cincy, which is NOTHING like LVQ -- and then move the Brew a little younger).

Nu, I'm not familiar enough with you to realize you actually had some real thinking behind your problem with WLZT - so I apologize.

I'm not a music (or any other format) programmer, so I can't take apart your analysis point by point, but I'm pleased to see that that someone's coming into this kind of discussion without an agenda about a format they like.

Generally on these boards, "this station/market/cluster sucks" means "they don't play the kind of music I and my friends want to hear" in the eyes of most participants. So, I kinda jumped the gun here based on previous radio message board experience with many others...who seem to think if their pet format only had A) a full market signal and B) promotion, half the market would be listening.

But, you're clearly not in that category, though I'll leave it to the more experienced programmers (music and otherwise) to go through your suggestions.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Makes no sense. Why would this kind of more-differentiated approach make any less sense for WLZT *and* the market than the out-soft Sunny debacle 93.3 is doing now? Waste of the first new full signal to come to Columbus in over 40 years. And that’s just AC. There are also opportunities -- some of which I would personally like and some of which I wouldn’t -- like AAA, Adult Hits, FM Talk, or upper-demo Classic Rock (like CC’s WOFX in Cincy, which is NOTHING like LVQ -- and then move the Brew a little younger).

Nu, I'm not familiar enough with you to realize you actually had some real thinking behind your problem with WLZT - so I apologize.

I'm not a music (or any other format) programmer, so I can't take apart your analysis point by point, but I'm pleased to see that that someone's coming into this kind of discussion without an agenda about a format they like.

Generally on these boards, "this station/market/cluster sucks" means "they don't play the kind of music I and my friends want to hear" in the eyes of most participants. So, I kinda jumped the gun here based on previous radio message board experience with many others...who seem to think if their pet format only had A) a full market signal and B) promotion, half the market would be listening.

But, you're clearly not in that category, though I'll leave it to the more experienced programmers (music and otherwise) to go through your suggestions.

Thanks for explaining your initial misimpression. It's certainly understandable, especially since I somehow let “sucks” and its variants get in there -- something I’ve steered clear of in the past. While I stand 100% behind my critical market assessment, a few tweaks could’ve reduced the chances of misinterpretation as a standard-issue “why can’t they play what I want” lament.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Thanks for explaining your initial misimpression. It's certainly understandable, especially since I somehow let “sucks” and its variants get in there -- something I’ve steered clear of in the past. While I stand 100% behind my critical market assessment, a few tweaks could’ve reduced the chances of misinterpretation as a standard-issue “why can’t they play what I want” lament.

Well, I was thrown off by that, by phrases like "My keyboard doesn't even want to type those calls" and your "largest market without" refrain. That's usually followed here by an impassioned plea for AAA/dance/metal or whatever format the poster wants to have as his or her own, personal FM radio station playing the music he/she likes.

Oh, if only MY FORMAT had a full market signal and promotion! EVERYONE WOULD LISTEN! And it applies to many partisans who followed the liberal talk format on WVKO through its end this past week.

Many of them are just convinced that if only the format was on 610 instead of 1580, it would be number one. They refuse to acknowledge that even the more mainstream/professional liberal talk hosts are not Destined For Number One (though I could make a case for Stephanie Miller ).

Fans of some of the less mainstream right-wing talkers have the same problem, but at least there's a conservative talk support system for some of these hosts to latch onto, with a desperation to fill a 24 hour schedule.

Anyway, thanks for going away from that, and towards more substantive discussion.

 

[gr8oldies]

CC Dayton has another super successful AC, Lite 99.9 which WLZT sounds close to. Doesn't 97.1 come very close to Dayton's Mix format? Why would CC take 97.1 head on?

 

[mikenci]

There is a much bigger problem with Radio on the horizon other than additional competition from other technologies. They are going to have to reinvent themselves. Back in the "good old days" A group was limited to the number of radio stations that could be owned to seven AM, seven FM and seven TV stations. Most of the companies that owned broadcasting properties were in "other" businesses. They owned broadcast properties primarily to promote the core businesses that they were in. IE Westinghouse, Sears, AFL-CIO, Nationwide, Outlet and Taft just to name a few... Broadcast operations as a stand alone business was not atractive. Even Ted Turner had a billboard company that was his main business. when his boards were not sold...he promoted his TV/Radio stations. Back then a broadcast license was renwed in three year terms. Community assertainment surveys has to be conducted by each station quarterly. Interviews of the "decision Makers" Politcal people, businesses and local orgainizations were conducted to determine the programming that a station would conduct during its license term to address these issues and provide a POSITIVE direction in each stations respective community. If they did a lousey job...You could count on a group to challange their license upon the renewal period. The business started to go to the dogs when the ownership limits were increased. The fine republican party modified the rules to allow MEGA braodcast Groups. Companies were formed as Broadcast only companies...License terms were extended to five then seven years with only a "POST CARD RENEWAL" required. They abandoned the community asscertainment studies with the stark reality that the business was not as profitable as a stand alone business. Then with technology they can now run the top six radio stations in the market with no one even in the building!!!! That is why the department of homeland security worked a deal with NOAA weather radio to change to ALL HAZARDS RADIO. They concluded that in a national emergency the only relaible way to distribute emergency information was through the NOAA network. Most radio stations were unmaned and most did not have functioning EAS equipment. That should open your eye!! Today companies like clear channel and SAGA are desperate to cut even further to meet their financial obligations. Saga is worried about its stock price going below a dollar and being delisted in the stock market. Clear channels debt is enough to choke a horse. Tribune files bankruptcy. Not one major braodcast station has changed hands in two months. Done deals like NBCs sale of WTVJ in Miami falls through at the last minute is just a sign of how bad over the air broadcast business is hurting. This business has come full circle again. LOCAL content is the only thing that will save radio AND TV from new tecnologies from the internet. May be the fairness doctrine has a different impact after all. If reimposed, braodcasters would have to start serving their communities again....What a shame!!!

 

[gr8oldies]

No one would loan money to a radio station owner if the license could be pulled easily before the loan was paid. Who is going to be in charge of fairness? I can turn off "public service programming" with one click

 

[del_griffith]

gt8toldies: Loans were made under those conditions. I don't agree with all that happened back then, but stations did trade. There is one additional element that mikenci didn't mention from the good old days. Those who held a license to a broadcast station had to disclose their income statements for the station or their abiblity to buy and run a station. At one time WRFD in the 60's used to advertise they were the most profitable daytime station in the nation. They knew, because the information on a station by station basis was public record.

Frankly, the deregulation mikenic refers to allowed for the stupid loans of the 90's and early 2000's to be made under the guise that there was a bigger fool waiting in the arena to buy a property at an ever escalating price. I have personally seen loans made where they made no sense. There was no way for a company to survive long term financially. And usually the bigger and stupider, the more likely they could be made. Especially in the earlier years and prior to automation becoming compact and inexpensive. You can run entire radio stations with desktops and servers for pennies of what you could back in the days when FM's played beautiful music on large reel to reel tapes and revolving carrosuels for commercial content.

I'm not saying all was great in the good old days. What was once known as "green mailing a station operator" was becomeing a frequenct issue. There were some groups who would threaten a petition to deny a sale or renewal and have an owner pay them to stay on the sidelines. If I recall, one such successful green mail group was based in Chicago. Many of their issues were petty, but they made a fortune doing it. While I don't support the return to the days of green mail, I would support a return to running a station in the public interest as it once was. Public interest wasn't general programming. It was the content of news and public affairs.

Also, with the exception of large cities, 24 hour broadcasting was limited. Many stations left the air in the evening at 10 or midnight (if they weren't already a daytimer) as they couldn't or wouldn't afford a salary for the overnight hours. Jerry Becks all night theater in the mid to late 70's was the first time I can recall a television station staying on overnight instead of signing off at 1 am or shortly there after. But radio was more homegrown and local content oriented.

Can we put the local content genie back in the bottle? I'm not sure. Technology has created a society that isn't interested in issues. People can carry a personal jukebox of the content of their choice in their pocket with hours of programming never touched by a broadcast professional. At first I thought it was a birth defect with all the 25 and under crowd walking the malls with ear buds and wires dangling from them. Those wires and buds are an epidemic.

Even the 24 hour cable news channels aren't news. They're infotainment "extreme fests" focused on titilation instead of rationally debating issues and the differences in how to approach those issues. Read any of the political forums, left or right, and watch the gallery roar with glee when Ann Coulter or Roger Moore draws blood from their opponent. The 24 hour cable networks aren't discussing issues. They are putting on a circus side show disguised as a news and information program. Yet a network like ONN is hardly watched. More local than CNN or Fox will ever be. More real content oriented than either of those networks will ever be. Yet it's pretty much obscure.

WOSU comes closest to an in depth coverage of news and information on the radio. Their drops in Morning Edition and ATC often contain in depth looks at stories, issues or concerns than any other radio station, yet they too are pretty much avoided by listening public. The presentation is sometimes a bit dry, but the content is often there and superior to what you'll find elsewhere. Where's the audience?

Where's it all going? I'm not sure. Will the ear bud generation of today graduate into the information content consumer of tomorrow? I'm not sure. I don't think we can go back to the good old days. Too much programming and FCC deregulation under the bridge.

 

[tomtomclub]

Columbus radio is far from dead. However, it is changing- probably for the worse before it gets better. Good local is better than great national. Talent makes the difference in all situations. Nu Roo has enough of a clue to be dangerous to the profitablity of a signal, that's about it. My job here is done.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

CC Dayton has another super successful AC, Lite 99.9 which WLZT sounds close to. Doesn't 97.1 come very close to Dayton's Mix format? Why would CC take 97.1 head on?

Yes, CC does indeed have another full-signalled AC in Dayton. Those stations even overlap some in both music and demos, yet both get stellar ratings. In fact, that points to another source of my frustration with the LZT format choice. Namely, my suspicion that a desire to steer clear of cash cow WNCI was one reason CC/Columbus chose to take 93.3 even softer than SNY instead of filling the hole...when in fact the situation in Dayton proves that such caution is unwarranted.

And no, 97.1 does not come anywhere close to Dayton's Mix format, WMMX. The simple fact that many (not all) trades slapped a Hot AC label on MMX does not mean the two stations sound any more alike than a Led Zeppelin type of "Classic Hits" station and a Herman Hermits type of "Classic Hits." We're not just talking nuances here, but fundamentally-different approaches. An MMX-like station vs. 97.1 would be less "head on" than, say, the Brew vs. LVQ. In fact 97.1 probably has more overlap with NCI than it does with MMX. For starters, when was the last time you heard 97.1 play anything approaching 50-60% gold??

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Columbus radio is far from dead. However, it is changing- probably for the worse before it gets better. Good local is better than great national. Talent makes the difference in all situations. Nu Roo has enough of a clue to be dangerous to the profitablity of a signal, that's about it. My job here is done. 

Sorry to hear you lost your job here. Hope you find one elsewhere soon.

 

[alans613]

CC Dayton has another super successful AC, Lite 99.9 which WLZT sounds close to. Doesn't 97.1 come very close to Dayton's Mix format? Why would CC take 97.1 head on?

Yes, CC does indeed have another full-signalled AC in Dayton. Those stations even overlap some in both music and demos, yet both get stellar ratings. In fact, that points to another source of my frustration with the LZT format choice. Namely, my suspicion that a desire to steer clear of cash cow WNCI was one reason CC/Columbus chose to take 93.3 even softer than SNY instead of filling the hole...when in fact the situation in Dayton proves that such caution is unwarranted.

And no, 97.1 does not come anywhere close to Dayton's Mix format, WMMX. The simple fact that many (not all) trades slapped a Hot AC label on MMX does not mean the two stations sound any more alike than a Led Zeppelin type of "Classic Hits" station and a Herman Hermits type of "Classic Hits." We're not just talking nuances here, but fundamentally-different approaches. An MMX-like station vs. 97.1 would be less "head on" than, say, the Brew vs. LVQ. In fact 97.1 probably has more overlap with NCI than it does with MMX. For starters, when was the last time you heard 97.1 play anything approaching 50-60% gold??

WMMX/Dayton is an 80s-leaning Hot AC, WBNS/Columbus is a CHR-leaning Hot AC. Right there is the difference.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

CC Dayton has another super successful AC, Lite 99.9 which WLZT sounds close to. Doesn't 97.1 come very close to Dayton's Mix format? Why would CC take 97.1 head on?

Yes, CC does indeed have another full-signalled AC in Dayton. Those stations even overlap some in both music and demos, yet both get stellar ratings. In fact, that points to another source of my frustration with the LZT format choice. Namely, my suspicion that a desire to steer clear of cash cow WNCI was one reason CC/Columbus chose to take 93.3 even softer than SNY instead of filling the hole...when in fact the situation in Dayton proves that such caution is unwarranted.

And no, 97.1 does not come anywhere close to Dayton's Mix format, WMMX. The simple fact that many (not all) trades slapped a Hot AC label on MMX does not mean the two stations sound any more alike than a Led Zeppelin type of "Classic Hits" station and a Herman Hermits type of "Classic Hits." We're not just talking nuances here, but fundamentally-different approaches. An MMX-like station vs. 97.1 would be less "head on" than, say, the Brew vs. LVQ. In fact 97.1 probably has more overlap with NCI than it does with MMX. For starters, when was the last time you heard 97.1 play anything approaching 50-60% gold??

WMMX/Dayton is an 80s-leaning Hot AC, WBNS/Columbus is a CHR-leaning Hot AC. Right there is the difference.

Yep, that captures most (not all) of the difference succinctly.

But for people who might say, "but the eighties is already so prevalent/fried in Columbus," it's important to note that

(1) In terms of texture and breadth, MMX doesn't sound anything like any of the Columbus stations that do play some music from that decade (obviously there will be some overlap); and

(2) MMX plays plenty of 90's and 00's, too, so it's not "an eighties station" by any means.

 

[willcail]

What there is no Christian CHR in the Columbus Market? How do you explain the following: 88.1 88.3 88.7 89.1 89.3 90.3 91.5 104.9?


Where do you live, in a cave?!

 

[xmusicmatt]

What there is no Christian CHR in the Columbus Market? How do you explain the following: 88.1 88.3 88.7 89.1 89.3 90.3 91.5 104.9?


Where do you live, in a cave?!

None of those classify as a Christian CHR honestly.

It's like me saying "there is some left leaning stuff on 103.9 so its progressive talk" (you'd rightfully would tell me I was wrong)..

Let's break down your list,

88.1 "AFR Talk" (inspo / talk format)
88.3 The Path (if you happen to live under Ch6's tower and can receive it) --Christian AC / Talk
88.7 Christian Rock format, they do play a few songs that would be considered CHR but lean very rock (think The Rock compaired to WNCI..)
89.1 "AFR Talk" (inspo / talk format)
89.3 The Promise (Christian AC / Talk)
90.3 WCDR "The Path" Christian AC / Talk
91.5 Christian AC/Classic AC (they do play a rock song or a CHR song here and there but you can't consider them Christian CHR also most of their day is talk
104.9 Christian AC

None of those stations would be considered a Christian CHR... Just like WNCI is different from WLZT, none of those stations above would be considered Christian CHR.

Stations that would be consdier C-CHR are wayFM in Grand Rapids MI, WONU in Chicago, WNAZ in Nashville.