Arbitron market trend

[nhradiochild]

I was thinking about how it was rumored that the reason "Rutland/Lebanon" became a rated market in the Arbs is because Clear Channel bought them.

If Clear Channel is no longer in that market, any ideas if Nassau will pick it up (or if they are purchasing already), or will that rated market be restructured or dropped? (I doubt any other owners will be willing to pick up the tab.)

 

[ret vet]

Nassau has been aggressive about purchasing Arbitron ratings in the past, they've "created" several Arbitron markets including Concord/Lakes
Region and, if memory serves me, Lebanon/Claremont/ Rutland. Rumor has it that their NH/VT properties aren't profitable so they may be disinclined to continue paying for the Arbitron service.

 

[NO DAG]

Clear Channel and Nassau, from what i understand led the charge to define the Upper Valley with Rutland thrown in. While it's very costly to have the market defined (#179), I don;t think the upside of national dollars pouring into the market may have been overestimated a tad.. The big winner (write what you will here) was Pamal, which was able to own 5 out of 6 commercial signals in Rutland creating a virtual monopoly in the market. For those not familiar with this wacky ill defined market.. None of the Lebanon / White River Junction signals really make it into Rutland county due to the Green Mountains being a geographic obsticle. Pamal owns 3 50kw's that are the only stations to provide pretty much full market coverage.. None of the Rutland "A's" make it over the mountains either.. I have to think the "Lakes Region" market has similar issues most of the local home stations are "A's".

 

[ret vet]

Yup,there's very little cross-coverage between Concord and the Lakes Region with only WLNH, WNHW and WFTN having good coverage in both areas. I got the impression that Nassau really overestimated the National/regional revenue that would be generated by combining the two
markets. Locally it's a tough sell because most advertisers want one or the other, not both.

 

[NO DAG]

I would not be that surprised is a lot of these groups so called "National Numbers" were somewhat better as an unrated market then being a rated one. I'm also willing to bet that the commercial 'rates' are on an average lower too..

 

[valhallafred]

Creating a "Rutland/Lenanon" mkt was one of the dumbest moves seen in these parts in a very long time. From what I understand it was Nassau that pushed for it. Yet another mistep for Big Lou in his VT/NH adventure. Could they really have been so clueless when they entered the market or was Vox simply that good when they negotiated the sale? The question as to whether it will remain a market is a very good one. There's no way $hapiro and crew are going to subscribe. They did just fine without it.

 

[NO DAG]

Sometimes its better to be away from a 'defined market', you don;t have to follow the rules per se for buys.. You can kind of make your own story and run with it..

 

[nhradiochild]

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I was wrong about who pushed for the market, but an interesting debate nonetheless. Now, Jo Jo, if the market were to be broken back up into what it was, does that mean Pamal would have to divest some of its holdings in Rutland?

And yes, I keep adding to this post... lol If that were to take place, do you think Great Eastern would be interested in making a purchase? (Of course this is all speculation.)

 

[radiotony]

I would agree with a lot of these comments. It is stupid - STEW-PED - to have a combined Concord/Lakes Region market. It just doesn't work on so many levels. And yeah, it has been my experience that advertisers want one market or the other - not both. Or, if they don't want both, like a dealership with a location in each market, they are going to buy in the different markets.

 

[NO DAG]

Now, Jo Jo, if the market were to be broken back up into what it was, does that mean Pamal would have to divest some of its holdings in Rutland?

I'm not sure how Saga gets away with owning 3 FM's / 2 AM's in Keene, and an AM ? FM in Brattleboro in which I believe the Brattleboro FM, WKVT-FM, has an on channel booster in Keene.. And that market is not defined by "the Big Arby".. In saying that, Saga seems to be a great operator of stations, and the Keene advertising market seems very robust. That is speculation on my part, sight unseen.

Getting back to Rutland, nothing would make me happier to see Pamal have to shed some of what's become a sorry load of underperforming properties in Rutland. Competition is a good thing, and brings out the best in everyone. No one loses when everyone is striving for excellence.. My answer is yes..

 

[Toni]

I believe the Brattleboro FM, WKVT-FM, has an on channel booster in Keene

There was a CP for this, but I don't believe it ever happened. WKVT FM's signal is strong in Keene regardless.

 

[ret vet]

Sometimes its better to be away from a 'defined market', you don;t have to follow the rules per se for buys.. You can kind of make your own story and run with it..

Having sold in both types of market I'd have to agree. Where Nassau screwed up was in assuming that by combining markets and thus moving them up in rank they'd find them on more nation/agency buy lists. That might work for top 100 markets but the Manchesters and Rutlands of the world are bought by advertisers who have specific retail coverage requirements.

In Concord/LR, Nassau's other problem is that they aren't dominant unless their stations are combined and advertisers like the idea of buying a 'ZID and getting Concord as a bonus or buying a 'BLM or 'HOM and getting the Lakes Region as a bonus.

 

[NO DAG]

Have to think that WOKQ as well, seems to be a very effiecent buy as well. I'm sure that advertising agencies and very astute radio time buyers are taking the soft radio advertising marketplace for what it is.. Rutland and Lebanon are worlds apart, and the ' Rutland stations that spill over into Lebanon" have a very Rutland oriented bent to them, and do not play the 'regional signal' card that well..

 

[NHRadio]

WKVT-FM1 was on the air very briefly last year and was permanently shelved due to interference with KVT's main signal.

I believe the Brattleboro FM, WKVT-FM, has an on channel booster in Keene

There was a CP for this, but I don't believe it ever happened. WKVT FM's signal is strong in Keene regardless.

 

[NO DAG]

In Concord/LR, Nassau's other problem is that they aren't dominant unless their stations are combined and advertisers like the idea of buying a 'ZID and getting Concord as a bonus or buying a 'BLM or 'HOM and getting the Lakes Region as a bonus.

I would have to think adding a buy into Concord, one can buy WGIR-FM or WZID and get both markets.. Doesn't the "Mill" have a translator into Concord ?? I'd think that WLNH is a 'must buy' for the Lakes Region being away enough from Concord, a fair amoutn of heritage there..


I would suspect that if a media buyer was placing dollars on the "Rutland Stations" for a West Lebanon situation, the Great Eastern and I'm sure even the Nassau National Sales team would be all over buyer that rather quickly.. There's no out-of-town blasters that get into the market that well.. Though once upon a moon Lindt Chocolates used to place a holiday buy on WOKO in Burlington thinking they were getting Rutland too.. It worked, Lindt Chocolate is no more there. Nobody knows the 'truffles' I've seen... ;D

 

[the casual observer]

I have never understood how you could create (without political muster, or a picture of someday having dinner with someone besides their wife) a market that includes stations that can't be heard (ie The Wolf / Cat Country). For that matter, why not just include Keene, and shoot for the moon?? Although I understand the desire to be a "rated market," I would hope for better sound from a top 200 station.

The point of competition is well made, however, competition has never helped any Rutland property, even before the great CC sell out. Cat, Z, JJR, et all have always sounded bad...music, imaging, airstaff (note I didn't say TALENT) all have sounded TINY market, not just small market. That having been said, the UV stations have always had a slightly better sound overall than those on the Rutland side of the market. Not sure if that is because the gene pool is a little deeper as you go east to NH, or the competition that DOES exist with the bleed over from Concord, and even Manchester.

Best guess...how long before they flip the script and split the markets again?

 

[newhampshiredude]

Concord should be part of the Manchester market. Nashua too. That would create a great national advertising marke twith NH's three largest cities all combined. That is the way southern NH really is. I live just northwest of Manchester, often shop in both Manchester and Concord, as well as go to the doctor in Nashua. They are three intertwined cities (Manchester being the largest) that deserve to be better served by the radio world. I would go as far to say that many of the Concord stations need to move their signals closer to Manchester and be able to reach Nashua too. I don't have much static-free variety on the radio. At night, I can't even get any local AM station from NH on my radio at home.

 

[NO DAG]

Concord should be part of the Manchester market. Nashua too. That would create a great national advertising marke twith NH's three largest cities all combined

I would have to believe there has been lots of discussion over the years of combining the Manchester and Concord markets, they are about 15 miles apart.. Yet the Concord stations are "A"'s and the signals do not make it into Manchester area all that well. Those Concord signals are really 'shoehorned' in, if you think about the proximity to the Boston stations the Concord signals are really close to on the dial..

 

[NO DAG]

By keeping Manchester and Concord as seperate markets gives the Concord stations a better representation with all things being equal..

 

[ret vet]

Concord should be part of the Manchester market. Nashua too. That would create a great national advertising marke twith NH's three largest cities all combined. That is the way southern NH really is. I live just northwest of Manchester, often shop in both Manchester and Concord, as well as go to the doctor in Nashua. They are three intertwined cities (Manchester being the largest) that deserve to be better served by the radio world. I would go as far to say that many of the Concord stations need to move their signals closer to Manchester and be able to reach Nashua too. I don't have much static-free variety on the radio. At night, I can't even get any local AM station from NH on my radio at home.

I agree with your concept of a unified Manchester/Concord/Nashua market but the Manchgester stations have always resisted it, even to the point of letting Nashua become part of the Boston MSA. Saga and Knight Quality preferred the tiny Manchester Metro for the simple reason that 'ZID and 'GIR completely dominate it whereas they felt throwing in Concord and Nashua would dilute their dominance.

Personally, I've always thought they were mistaken and missed out on an opportunity to draw many national regional marketers into an area that they could easily dominate if they <gasp> promoted themselves properly. The Manchester MSA is one of the few that does not contain at least one entire county, instead it's bits and pieces of three different counties. (it was originally based on the daytime contours of WGIR-AM!) IMO it would be less artificial to throw Keene/Peterborough in than to exclude Nashua and Concord.

As for the Concord Stations moving closer to Manchester, it ain't gonna happen, they'd love to but the FCC won't allow it and even if they did they'd need a huge power/height bump to get into Nashua. When I sold @ 'JYY in the mid 90s they had a similcast at 92.1/Milford next to Nashua. That was huge fun to sell and very lucrative. Nassau is now going one better with a trimulcast of the Frank format at 99.1/Henniker-Concord, 104.9/Moutonborough and 106.3/Nashua.

One more thing, a combined Manchester/Concord/Nashua Metro would encompass the four largest cities in the State as the Manchester MSA already includes (IIRC) Derry, the state's fourth-ranked city (and it's fastest growing).

How could they have blown such an opportunity!