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Arbitron

Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> I don't, as I
> > said in the other post on this matter, see how that
> > discriminates as it neither takes nor adds to any one
> > group's proportionality in the survey process.
> >
> Because your race isn't being discriminated against!

Where do you see that "whites" are being discriminated against?
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

David,

Imaging running an ad in the newspaper that says the following...

We're gonna have a little survey. We'll pay "minorities" $5.00 for their opinion and whites $1.00.

See a problem with that?


> > I don't, as I
> > > said in the other post on this matter, see how that
> > > discriminates as it neither takes nor adds to any one
> > > group's proportionality in the survey process.
> > >
> > Because your race isn't being discriminated against!
>
> Where do you see that "whites" are being discriminated
> against?
>
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> David,
>
> Imaging running an ad in the newspaper that says the
> following...
>
> We're gonna have a little survey. We'll pay "minorities"
> $5.00 for their opinion and whites $1.00.
>
> See a problem with that?

In the case of Arbitron, no participant knows what any other participant gets. In fact, payment is not offered at all. When the diaries arrive at aa home that has accepted them, the find the incentive attacehed. The idea is to give "enough" to insure particpation.

In the case of the newspaper ad, everyone knows there is a differential treatment. In the case of the diary, each family only knows what the family members got.

In practice, the money is hardly a payment. It is more like "guilt money" than anything else, but it has been proven since the mid-70's to be effective.
 
Re: Arbitron misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

> Black is a race. Hispanic is not, as there are Black, white,
> Asian and Indigenous Hispanics. Other is all other persons,
> irrespective of race, who do not fit in either of the first
> two categories first.
>
> There is no "white" category since that would have to
> include a huge percentage of Hispanics. This is why the US
> Census does not give "Hispanic" as an option on the "race
> question" on the Census form... it is a separate question
> separate from race. And this is why the correct term for
> what you describe is "non-Hispanic white."
>
You seem to have a short memory. Again, the definition of "Hispanic":
2 entries found for hispanic.
His·pan·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-spnk)
adj.
Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

n.
A Spanish-speaking person.
A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

"Race" is a synonym for culture and descent. Sorry, but you're wrong. Arbitron's system is racist and to group people of ethnicities other than black or hispanic into "OTHERS" is RACIST.
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> > I don't, as I
> > > said in the other post on this matter, see how that
> > > discriminates as it neither takes nor adds to any one
> > > group's proportionality in the survey process.
> > >
> > Because your race isn't being discriminated against!
>
> Where do you see that "whites" are being discriminated
> against?
>
Where do you see that they're not? I'm not Asian, so to group me with Asians into the "OTHERS" category is racist.
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> David,
>
> Imaging running an ad in the newspaper that says the
> following...
>
> We're gonna have a little survey. We'll pay "minorities"
> $5.00 for their opinion and whites $1.00.
>
> See a problem with that?

No, he doesn't see a problem with that, because HIS race is benefitting. If the tables were turned, though, you know LULAC and the NAACP would be ALL OVER IT!!!
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> In the case of Arbitron, no participant knows what any other
> participant gets. In fact, payment is not offered at all.
> When the diaries arrive at aa home that has accepted them,
> the find the incentive attacehed. The idea is to give
> "enough" to insure particpation.
>
> In the case of the newspaper ad, everyone knows there is a
> differential treatment. In the case of the diary, each
> family only knows what the family members got.
>
> In practice, the money is hardly a payment. It is more like
> "guilt money" than anything else, but it has been proven
> since the mid-70's to be effective.
>
It's a RACIST practice and, I guarantee you if those in the "OTHER" category were paid more money than Hispanics and Blacks, LULAC and the NAACP would make sure that the entire country knew about Arbitron's racist methods.
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> > > I don't, as I
> > > > said in the other post on this matter, see how that
> > > > discriminates as it neither takes nor adds to any one
> > > > group's proportionality in the survey process.
> > > >
> > > Because your race isn't being discriminated against!
> >
> > Where do you see that "whites" are being discriminated
> > against?
> >
> Where do you see that they're not? I'm not Asian, so to
> group me with Asians into the "OTHERS" category is racist.

I suppose I shoudl just look at what board all this is in and write it up to that. I will say that this has been arbitron practice for decades, and i have never heard a single complaint except yours... which is probably because you could benefit form reading the Purple Book over at Arbitron dot com.
>
 
Re: Hipanic is not a race. Period.

> > David,
> >
> > Imaging running an ad in the newspaper that says the
> > following...
> >
> > We're gonna have a little survey. We'll pay "minorities"
> > $5.00 for their opinion and whites $1.00.
> >
> > See a problem with that?
>
> No, he doesn't see a problem with that, because HIS race is
> benefitting. If the tables were turned, though, you know
> LULAC and the NAACP would be ALL OVER IT!!!
>

DUDE: I am white. Hispanic is a cultural group based on using Spanish, not a race. There are Black, white, Asian and Indigenous Hispanics.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> > In the case of Arbitron, no participant knows what any
> other
> > participant gets. In fact, payment is not offered at all.
> > When the diaries arrive at aa home that has accepted them,
>
> > the find the incentive attacehed. The idea is to give
> > "enough" to insure particpation.
> >
> > In the case of the newspaper ad, everyone knows there is a
>
> > differential treatment. In the case of the diary, each
> > family only knows what the family members got.
> >
> > In practice, the money is hardly a payment. It is more
> like
> > "guilt money" than anything else, but it has been proven
> > since the mid-70's to be effective.
> >
> It's a RACIST practice and, I guarantee you if those in the
> "OTHER" category were paid more money than Hispanics and
> Blacks, LULAC and the NAACP would make sure that the entire
> country knew about Arbitron's racist methods.

Some of those in the "other" category are paid more than Hispanics and Blacks. People are paid more the harder it is historically proven to get them to return a complete diary. The hardest group of all is 18-24 white boys, as they are in the "age of irresponsibility" where they are seldom at home, not particularly interested in anything and definitely not into surveys.

This is not about "race" as only one of the 3 categories Arbitron uses is race-based. The categories are used because they parallel the Census and marketing divisions and are what advertisers want. Incentives are given based on response rates, not the categories advertisers use to place buys.
>
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

>
> I suppose I shoudl just look at what board all this is in
> and write it up to that. I will say that this has been
> arbitron practice for decades, and i have never heard a
> single complaint except yours... which is probably because
> you could benefit form reading the Purple Book over at
> Arbitron dot com.
> >
>
Really? I've heard SEVERAL complaints. The fact of the matter is, whether the practice just started yesterday or has been in place for decades, it's racist and discriminatory. As far as your comment, "I suppose I shoudl just look at what board all this is in and write it up to that" - would you mind clarifying that?
 
Re: Hipanic IS a race. Period.

> DUDE: I am white. Hispanic is a cultural group based on
> using Spanish, not a race. There are Black, white, Asian and
> Indigenous Hispanics.
>
DUDE: Hispanic is a race. Haven't we been through this before?
His·pan·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-spnk)
adj.
Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

n.
A Spanish-speaking person.
A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

And, accordingMain Entry: race
Part of Speech: noun 2
Definition: ethnic group
Synonyms: blood, breed, clan, color, cultural group, culture, family, folk, house, issue, kin, kind, kindred, line, lineage, nation, nationality, offspring, people, progeny, seed, species, stock, strain, tribe, type, variety
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
to the thesaurus:

So, you might be very proficient in Spanish, but I suggest you take a few more lessons in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> This is not about "race" as only one of the 3 categories
> Arbitron uses is race-based. The categories are used because
> they parallel the Census and marketing divisions and are
> what advertisers want. Incentives are given based on
> response rates, not the categories advertisers use to place
> buys.


You totally contradict yourself. It is ABSOLUTELY ABOUT RACE!! Otherwise, WHY would it matter whether Joe Blow Diary Keeper is Black, Hispanic or "OTHER"? Do you work for Arbitron? You have the corporate jargon down well; however, your problem is you actually believe it's okay to be racist against "OTHERS".
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> >
> > I suppose I shoudl just look at what board all this is in
> > and write it up to that. I will say that this has been
> > arbitron practice for decades, and i have never heard a
> > single complaint except yours... which is probably because
>
> > you could benefit form reading the Purple Book over at
> > Arbitron dot com.
> > >
> >
> Really? I've heard SEVERAL complaints. The fact of the
> matter is, whether the practice just started yesterday or
> has been in place for decades, it's racist and
> discriminatory.

Were someone being injured by the practice, it would be discrimination. In fact, it affords all groups equal representation in the ratings, which is anti-discriminatory. In fact, were it not for the practice, we would probably have half the number of rock and active rock stations in the US we have today.

> As far as your comment, "I suppose I shoudl
> just look at what board all this is in and write it up to
> that" - would you mind clarifying that?

Not at all. It just seems that the Dallas and Texas groups border on gladiator forums, with a bit higher level of confrontation than others. Neither good not bad, just an observation.
>
 
Re: Hipanic is not a race per any official definition.

> > DUDE: I am white. Hispanic is a cultural group based on
> > using Spanish, not a race. There are Black, white, Asian
> and
> > Indigenous Hispanics.
> >
> DUDE: Hispanic is a race. Haven't we been through this
>

Hispanic, as used by Arbitron (the subject of this discussion) is not a race. It is kid of an ehtnicity and kind of a cultural definition.

Any Hispanic, be they of the Black, white, Asian or Indigenous RACES is considered Hispanic.

In the US Census, "Hispanic" is not one of the options for race. Being Hispanic is in addition to whatever race a person may be. You may have persons of any race who are ALSO Hispanic, but being of any specific race does not mean one is Hispanic.

If you go to the US Census website, you will be able to find the 2000 decennial Census questionnaire and see for yourself that Hispanic is not a race question option. It is a separate Y/N question.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> > This is not about "race" as only one of the 3 categories
> > Arbitron uses is race-based. The categories are used
> because
> > they parallel the Census and marketing divisions and are
> > what advertisers want. Incentives are given based on
> > response rates, not the categories advertisers use to
> place
> > buys.
>
>
> You totally contradict yourself. It is ABSOLUTELY ABOUT
> RACE!! Otherwise, WHY would it matter whether Joe Blow Diary
> Keeper is Black, Hispanic or "OTHER"? Do you work for
> Arbitron? You have the corporate jargon down well; however,
> your problem is you actually believe it's okay to be racist
> against "OTHERS".

A. Hispanic is not a race.
B. Advertisers need to target messages against different ethnic groups differently. they wish to know about Blacks and Hispanics separately from non-Hispanic whites and all others (Arabs, Persians, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc) as they specifically market to each group in different ways.
C. It is hardly discriminatory to market to Blacks using different language and actors than to Hispanics. This is not racist... it is being sensitive to cultural differences.
D. Many station operators program specifically to one group or another, and which to be able to measure and sell their performance.
E. The Census makes the same distinctions, including the fact that they do not consider Hisapnics to be a race.
>
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> Were someone being injured by the practice, it would be
> discrimination. In fact, it affords all groups equal
> representation in the ratings, which is anti-discriminatory.
> In fact, were it not for the practice, we would probably
> have half the number of rock and active rock stations in the
> US we have today.

REALLY? I know SEVERAL people that have been "injured" by the racist practice. If a station's ratings aren't good, the jock generally loses his job. If the diaries are weighted to benefit Hispanics and Blacks - that hurts those in the "OTHERS" group and costs people their jobs.


> Not at all. It just seems that the Dallas and Texas groups
> border on gladiator forums, with a bit higher level of
> confrontation than others. Neither good not bad, just an
> observation.
> >
>
"Gladiator" forums? Where are you, California?
 
Re: Hipanic is not a race per any official definition.

> Hispanic, as used by Arbitron (the subject of this
> discussion) is not a race. It is kid of an ehtnicity and
> kind of a cultural definition.
>

It is "kind of" an ethnicity and cultural definition is a fallacy. As for the U.S. Census definition you refer to, chalk that up to a "politically correct" definition. If you want a "TRUE" definition - not a "kind of" one - check the dictionary.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> A. Hispanic is not a race.
> B. Advertisers need to target messages against different
> ethnic groups differently. they wish to know about Blacks
> and Hispanics separately from non-Hispanic whites and all
> others (Arabs, Persians, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc) as they
> specifically market to each group in different ways.
> C. It is hardly discriminatory to market to Blacks using
> different language and actors than to Hispanics. This is not
> racist... it is being sensitive to cultural differences.
> D. Many station operators program specifically to one group
> or another, and which to be able to measure and sell their
> performance.
> E. The Census makes the same distinctions, including the
> fact that they do not consider Hisapnics to be a race.
> >

1. Hispanic IS a race.
2. Advertisers pander to any group from which they want to get money.
3. It CAN NOT be considered being "sensitive to cultural differences" when Asians, Arabs, Europeans, etc., are put into an "OTHERS" group. Those cultures are very different from one another.
4. That's true and irrelevant to this discussion, except that it's okay for Hispanic stations to be racist - e.g. "106.7, where Latinos live" - you would NEVER see a Country station use the slogan "Where European-Americans live" because that would be RACIST.
5. If the Census did not consider Hispanics to be a race, they wouldn't ask one's race when they do the census. Again, if you want a TRUE definition, an unbiased definition of "Hispanic," LOOK in the dictionary.
 
Re: Hipanic is not a race per any official definition.

> > Hispanic, as used by Arbitron (the subject of this
> > discussion) is not a race. It is kid of an ehtnicity and
> > kind of a cultural definition.
> >
>
> It is "kind of" an ethnicity and cultural definition is a
> fallacy. As for the U.S. Census definition you refer to,
> chalk that up to a "politically correct" definition. If you
> want a "TRUE" definition - not a "kind of" one - check the
> dictionary.

That definition is just patently wrong. There is no way that Hispanic can be anyting but an ethnicity or cultural grouping.

There are Hispanics who are of the Black race.
There are Hispanics who are of the Asian race.
There are Hispanics who are of the white race.
There are Hispanics who are of the Indigenous (Indian is the American term) race.
There are mixes of all kinds and colors.

But there is no one racial characteristic of Hispanics.

Some ignorant eople in Texas seem to thing anyone "looking Mexican" is Hispanic. However, those people are failing to identify the more white, black or mixed people as Hispanic, and are stereotyping.

Go to Miami. The stereotype of an Hispanic there is a tall white person. Go to the Dominican Republic... where the stereotype is a pure African heritage person Go to Argentina, where the stereotype looks like someone from Rome or Venice. Go to La Paz, where the stererotype is nearly all Indigenous.

Yet with these stereotyples, there are huge percentages each place that look different than the majority. So there is no one type or race of Hispanics.

This is why the census does not identify Hispanic as a race, and Hispanics, as is totally true, may be of any race. Which is also true.
>
 
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