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Arbitron

Re: It's about response rates, not race.

>
> 1. Hispanic IS a race.

Nope. explain how a person can be Black and Hispanic or White and Hispanic or ev en Asian and Hispanic? You can not be of two pure races. So one of the definitiuons must be an ethnicity. A race is a physiotype that identifies strong similar characteristics in appearance. There are no similarities at all among Hispanics of different races.

> 2. Advertisers pander to any group from which they want to
> get money.

Which is why they want to identify groups that are socially or culturally different. They also get data that sows who is more likely to buy a car. Is that discriminating against non car buyers?

> 3. It CAN NOT be considered being "sensitive to cultural
> differences" when Asians, Arabs, Europeans, etc., are put
> into an "OTHERS" group. Those cultures are very different
> from one another.

But, in the US, not significant enough in number to have a separate category. So they are lumped with the non-Hispanic whites. And "whites" (caucasians) did not come from Europe. They came from the area between present day Persia and NW India.

> 4. That's true and irrelevant to this discussion, except
> that it's okay for Hispanic stations to be racist - e.g.
> "106.7, where Latinos live" - you would NEVER see a Country
> station use the slogan "Where European-Americans live"
> because that would be RACIST.

"Latino" is a culture. It is OK to be proud of a culture in the US. There is no "white" culture... there are many... from Appalachia to Montana, there are many manifestiatins and wide differences. Black, while a race, is also a culture. Which is why Black stations often identify with the culture.

> 5. If the Census did not consider Hispanics to be a race,
> they wouldn't ask one's race when they do the census.

They DO NOT ask "the Hispanic question" as part of the race question, as I mentioned earlier. The race options are do not include "Hispanic" at all. there is a separate question about whether one considers themselves Hispanic, which says, "Hispanic, Latino or Spanish" and then has subsets for things like "Cuban" and "Puerto Rican" and "Mexican, Mexican American, Chicano, etc." All these terms are either national origins or cultural grupings like Chicano... none are raceial.

http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d61a.pdf shows th eshort form questionnaire form the last census. Note questions 7 and 8, which are separate but have instructions about answering both, further indication that race and being Hispanic are not the same and that Hispanic is not a race and never was.

How can you say Sammy Sosa, Vicente Fox, Alberto Fujimori (past president of Peru) Salma Hayeck, Benitio Juarez, Roberto Clemente, Ana Gabriel (mexican pop singer), Jennifer Lopez and Ricky Martin are of the same race? Yet they are all Hispanic.

> Again,
> if you want a TRUE definition, an unbiased definition of
> "Hispanic," LOOK in the dictionary.
>
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> > Were someone being injured by the practice, it would be
> > discrimination. In fact, it affords all groups equal
> > representation in the ratings, which is
> anti-discriminatory.
> > In fact, were it not for the practice, we would probably
> > have half the number of rock and active rock stations in
> the
> > US we have today.
>
> REALLY? I know SEVERAL people that have been "injured" by
> the racist practice. If a station's ratings aren't good, the
> jock generally loses his job. If the diaries are weighted to
> benefit Hispanics and Blacks - that hurts those in the
> "OTHERS" group and costs people their jobs.

All groups are waighted to be proportional to the population in the market. Hispanics are not given greater weight than non Hispanics uless Hispanic diaryt return is low. In fact, in most markets, the PPDV is within a very close range.

If there are 47% other in a market, the book will be weighted to get 47% representation. The sample, before wighting is very nearly proportional. After wighting, it is 100% proportional.

The example you give is both false hand could never happen.
>
>
> > Not at all. It just seems that the Dallas and Texas groups
>
> > border on gladiator forums, with a bit higher level of
> > confrontation than others. Neither good not bad, just an
> > observation.
> > >
> >
> "Gladiator" forums? Where are you, California?
>

No, I work out of main offices in Dallas but travel to about 20 markets.

"Gladiator" is a web term, not a California term.
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> All groups are waighted to be proportional to the population
> in the market. Hispanics are not given greater weight than
> non Hispanics uless Hispanic diaryt return is low. In fact,
> in most markets, the PPDV is within a very close range.
>
> If there are 47% other in a market, the book will be
> weighted to get 47% representation. The sample, before
> wighting is very nearly proportional. After wighting, it is
> 100% proportional.
>
You mean "weighted"? You work for Arbitron, don't you? No one other than an employee with something to gain would defend a racist practice.
 
Re: Hipanic is not a race per any official definition.

> That definition is just patently wrong. There is no way that
> Hispanic can be anyting but an ethnicity or cultural
> grouping.
>
> There are Hispanics who are of the Black race.
> There are Hispanics who are of the Asian race.
> There are Hispanics who are of the white race.
> There are Hispanics who are of the Indigenous (Indian is the
> American term) race.
> There are mixes of all kinds and colors.
>
> But there is no one racial characteristic of Hispanics.
>
> Some ignorant eople in Texas seem to thing anyone "looking
> Mexican" is Hispanic. However, those people are failing to
> identify the more white, black or mixed people as Hispanic,
> and are stereotyping.
>
> Go to Miami. The stereotype of an Hispanic there is a tall
> white person. Go to the Dominican Republic... where the
> stereotype is a pure African heritage person Go to
> Argentina, where the stereotype looks like someone from Rome
> or Venice. Go to La Paz, where the stererotype is nearly all
> Indigenous.
>
> Yet with these stereotyples, there are huge percentages each
> place that look different than the majority. So there is no
> one type or race of Hispanics.
>
> This is why the census does not identify Hispanic as a race,
> and Hispanics, as is totally true, may be of any race. Which
> is also true.
> >
>
So, now you're also Miriam Webster? Wow! Call it "culture." Call it "ethnicity." They're both synonyms for "race." YOU are the last person who needs to be calling anyone ignorant. You are toooooooo far into the forest to see the trees. Do I need to elaborate on that expression for you, too?
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> Nope. explain how a person can be Black and Hispanic or
> White and Hispanic or ev en Asian and Hispanic? You can not
> be of two pure races. So one of the definitiuons must be an
> ethnicity. A race is a physiotype that identifies strong
> similar characteristics in appearance. There are no
> similarities at all among Hispanics of different races.

Simple - the term is, in most cases, "bi-racial." Surely, you've heard of that term?




>
> > 2. Advertisers pander to any group from which they want to
>
> > get money.
>
> Which is why they want to identify groups that are socially
> or culturally different. They also get data that sows who is
> more likely to buy a car. Is that discriminating against non
> car buyers?

Yes, it is. Look up the definition of "discrimination." But, the point is discriminating based on a person's racial identity, so your point above is moot.

>
> > 3. It CAN NOT be considered being "sensitive to cultural
> > differences" when Asians, Arabs, Europeans, etc., are put
> > into an "OTHERS" group. Those cultures are very different
> > from one another.
>
> But, in the US, not significant enough in number to have a
> separate category. So they are lumped with the non-Hispanic
> whites. And "whites" (caucasians) did not come from Europe.
> They came from the area between present day Persia and NW
> India.

Well, then, if you want to go that far back and, if you believe in a Higher Power, then we are all descendants of the SAME race.

>
> > 4. That's true and irrelevant to this discussion, except
> > that it's okay for Hispanic stations to be racist - e.g.
> > "106.7, where Latinos live" - you would NEVER see a
> Country
> > station use the slogan "Where European-Americans live"
> > because that would be RACIST.
>
> "Latino" is a culture. It is OK to be proud of a culture in
> the US. There is no "white" culture... there are many...
> from Appalachia to Montana, there are many manifestiatins
> and wide differences. Black, while a race, is also a
> culture. Which is why Black stations often identify with the
> culture.


"Latino" is also a race - look it up. There is no "white" culture? Really? That's probably one of the most RACIST statements you've made up to this point.
 
Re: Ethnicity and Culture are not the same as race.

> >
> So, now you're also Miriam Webster? Wow! Call it "culture."
> Call it "ethnicity." They're both synonyms for "race." YOU
> are the last person who needs to be calling anyone ignorant.
> You are toooooooo far into the forest to see the trees. Do I
> need to elaborate on that expression for you, too


Culture is not synonymous with race, and ethnicity is not synonymous with race.

Race, thought by many to be an outmoded concept, is basically limited to certain heredetary, genetic conditions which determine skin color and generalized facial types and certain body characteristics. The fact is, we are all part of the human race. In the next few hundred years, racial distinctions will probably become less and less prevalent.

An ethnicity would be the Serbs or croats in Yugoslavia or the Copts in Egypt. A culture would be people of any race and ethnicity that share common socialization elements, making them of common habits, traits, dress, food, etc.

You are trying to build some kind of straw man for your personal delight. The fact is, there is no objection and no racism in the way Arbitron creates audience breaks. You seem to want to make this a human rights issue, and it is not.
>
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> > All groups are waighted to be proportional to the
> population
> > in the market. Hispanics are not given greater weight than
>
> > non Hispanics uless Hispanic diaryt return is low. In
> fact,
> > in most markets, the PPDV is within a very close range.
> >
> > If there are 47% other in a market, the book will be
> > weighted to get 47% representation. The sample, before
> > wighting is very nearly proportional. After wighting, it
> is
> > 100% proportional.
> >
> You mean "weighted"?

If you knew, why did u ask?

>You work for Arbitron, don't you?

Nope. I have, however, worked with about a dozen different ratings companies in my career, and Arbitron is by far the best, the most responsive and the most tranparent.

> No
> one other than an employee with something to gain would
> defend a racist practice.
>

Since Hispanic is not a race, this point is null and void. Prohibited in Nebraska and Puerto Rico.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> > Nope. explain how a person can be Black and Hispanic or
> > White and Hispanic or ev en Asian and Hispanic? You can
> not
> > be of two pure races. So one of the definitiuons must be
> an
> > ethnicity. A race is a physiotype that identifies strong
> > similar characteristics in appearance. There are no
> > similarities at all among Hispanics of different races.
>
> Simple - the term is, in most cases, "bi-racial." Surely,
> you've heard of that term?

Let's see. A person in Puerto Rico traces thier heritage on both sides of the family to Africa. There has never been a non-African in the bloodline. They are Black racially and Hispanic also.

Mestizo and Mulatto are mixed race descriptors in Latin America. One is part European and part Indigenous. The other is part European and part African. Both are also Hispanic.

Fujimori, the past president of Peru, was of pure Japanese parentage. He was also Hispanic.
> >
> > Which is why they want to identify groups that are
> socially
> > or culturally different. They also get data that sows who
> is
> > more likely to buy a car. Is that discriminating against
> non
> > car buyers?
>
> Yes, it is. Look up the definition of "discrimination."

There is nothing discriminatory about spending your ad money where more of your good consumers are to be found. That is called targeted marketing.

> But,
> the point is discriminating based on a person's racial
> identity, so your point above is moot.

Hispanic is not a race. Start with that.

But the three groups Arbitron breaks out have different listening and buying patterns. This is a study done 100% to sell advertising. Having such breaks, just like age breaks, geographic breaks and income breaks, helps target advertising.
>
> >
> > But, in the US, not significant enough in number to have a
>
> > separate category. So they are lumped with the
> non-Hispanic
> > whites. And "whites" (caucasians) did not come from
> Europe.
> > They came from the area between present day Persia and NW
> > India.
>
> Well, then, if you want to go that far back and, if you
> believe in a Higher Power, then we are all descendants of
> the SAME race.

We are all Human. But there are groups that behave differently as consumers. That is what Arbitron measures.
> >
> > "Latino" is a culture. It is OK to be proud of a culture
> in
> > the US. There is no "white" culture... there are many...
> > from Appalachia to Montana, there are many manifestiatins
> > and wide differences. Black, while a race, is also a
> > culture. Which is why Black stations often identify with
> the
> > culture.
>
>
> "Latino" is also a race - look it up. There is no "white"
> culture? Really

There are dozens and dozens of "white" cultures, some being almost bizarely different from others. The Celtic origin Spaniards form Galicia have no cultural similarity with Persians. Ukranians have no similar culture with the Scots. Appalachians have no similarity with any other culture in the world. Cajuns have no similarity with the culture of French Guayana. All are, technicall, white.

>? That's probably one of the most RACIST
> statements you've made up to this point.
>

There is no white culture. There are many, mnay different white cultures... they range from the armed supremacists of Montana to the descendants of the Boer trekkers in J'burg.
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

Just out of curiosity, where were you born and where were you raised?
 
Re: Ethnicity and Culture are not the same as race.

> Culture is not synonymous with race, and ethnicity is not
> synonymous with race.
>
> Race, thought by many to be an outmoded concept, is
> basically limited to certain heredetary, genetic conditions
> which determine skin color and generalized facial types and
> certain body characteristics. The fact is, we are all part
> of the human race. In the next few hundred years, racial
> distinctions will probably become less and less prevalent.
>
> An ethnicity would be the Serbs or croats in Yugoslavia or
> the Copts in Egypt. A culture would be people of any race
> and ethnicity that share common socialization elements,
> making them of common habits, traits, dress, food, etc.
>
> You are trying to build some kind of straw man for your
> personal delight. The fact is, there is no objection and no
> racism in the way Arbitron creates audience breaks. You seem
> to want to make this a human rights issue, and it is not.
> >
>
AGAIN, FOR ABOUT THE 5,000TH TIME:
Main Entry: race
Part of Speech: noun 2
Definition: ethnic group
Synonyms: blood, breed, clan, color, cultural group, culture, family, folk, house, issue, kin, kind, kindred, line, lineage, nation, nationality, offspring, people, progeny, seed, species, stock, strain, tribe, type, variety

I find it interesting how you continue to defend racism. You seem like an intelligent man, and yet you are either very ignorant or very okay with discriminating against those that Arbitron puts in the "OTHERS" category. Until Arbitron and every other company and organization (including universities) stops using race as a determining factor for ratings, admission, quotas, we will continue to have racism in this country. And people like you will continue to defend it. It is totally about human rights and about discriminating against someone based on their race.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> > > Nope. explain how a person can be Black and Hispanic or
> > > White and Hispanic or ev en Asian and Hispanic? You can
> > not
> > > be of two pure races. So one of the definitiuons must be
>
> > an
> > > ethnicity. A race is a physiotype that identifies strong
>
> > > similar characteristics in appearance. There are no
> > > similarities at all among Hispanics of different races.
>
> >
> > Simple - the term is, in most cases, "bi-racial." Surely,
> > you've heard of that term?
>
> Let's see. A person in Puerto Rico traces thier heritage on
> both sides of the family to Africa. There has never been a
> non-African in the bloodline. They are Black racially and
> Hispanic also.
>
> Mestizo and Mulatto are mixed race descriptors in Latin
> America. One is part European and part Indigenous. The other
> is part European and part African. Both are also Hispanic.
>
> Fujimori, the past president of Peru, was of pure Japanese
> parentage. He was also Hispanic.
> > >
> > > Which is why they want to identify groups that are
> > socially
> > > or culturally different. They also get data that sows
> who
> > is
> > > more likely to buy a car. Is that discriminating against
>
> > non
> > > car buyers?
> >
> > Yes, it is. Look up the definition of "discrimination."
>
> There is nothing discriminatory about spending your ad money
> where more of your good consumers are to be found. That is
> called targeted marketing.
>
> > But,
> > the point is discriminating based on a person's racial
> > identity, so your point above is moot.
>
> Hispanic is not a race. Start with that.
>
> But the three groups Arbitron breaks out have different
> listening and buying patterns. This is a study done 100% to
> sell advertising. Having such breaks, just like age breaks,
> geographic breaks and income breaks, helps target
> advertising.
> >
> > >
> > > But, in the US, not significant enough in number to have
> a
> >
> > > separate category. So they are lumped with the
> > non-Hispanic
> > > whites. And "whites" (caucasians) did not come from
> > Europe.
> > > They came from the area between present day Persia and
> NW
> > > India.
> >
> > Well, then, if you want to go that far back and, if you
> > believe in a Higher Power, then we are all descendants of
> > the SAME race.
>
> We are all Human. But there are groups that behave
> differently as consumers. That is what Arbitron measures.
> > >
> > > "Latino" is a culture. It is OK to be proud of a culture
>
> > in
> > > the US. There is no "white" culture... there are many...
>
> > > from Appalachia to Montana, there are many
> manifestiatins
> > > and wide differences. Black, while a race, is also a
> > > culture. Which is why Black stations often identify with
>
> > the
> > > culture.
> >
> >
> > "Latino" is also a race - look it up. There is no "white"
> > culture? Really
>
> There are dozens and dozens of "white" cultures, some being
> almost bizarely different from others. The Celtic origin
> Spaniards form Galicia have no cultural similarity with
> Persians. Ukranians have no similar culture with the Scots.
> Appalachians have no similarity with any other culture in
> the world. Cajuns have no similarity with the culture of
> French Guayana. All are, technicall, white.
>
> >? That's probably one of the most RACIST
> > statements you've made up to this point.
> >
>
> There is no white culture. There are many, mnay different
> white cultures... they range from the armed supremacists of
> Montana to the descendants of the Boer trekkers in J'burg.
>
I'm not sure what you do for a living, but you're definitely dillusional in regards to what constitutes "race" in America. If Arbitron weighted diaries towards Whites, every other racial group would be crying racism - you know it, I know it and everyone who reads this posts knows it. What's sad is that you and the majority of people in this country now believe it is okay to discriminate against those of us that fit into your "OTHERS" category. Instead of this country being a melting pot of many cultures, your kind of thinking is what will continue to divide this country and keep racism alive. I guess that's something you can be proud of, can't you?
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> Just out of curiosity, where were you born and where were
> you raised?
>

Born in Ohio, partly raised there, rest in Mexico City and Quito, Ecuador. College in Quito, San Juan, PR, and Tempe, AZ. Worked in Black radio first 4 years, then "Hispanic" radio mostly for the next 40 or so.
 
Re: Ethnicity and Culture are not the same as race.

> > Culture is not synonymous with race, and ethnicity is not
> > synonymous with race.
> >
> > Race, thought by many to be an outmoded concept, is
> > basically limited to certain heredetary, genetic
> conditions
> > which determine skin color and generalized facial types
> and
> > certain body characteristics. The fact is, we are all part
>
> > of the human race. In the next few hundred years, racial
> > distinctions will probably become less and less prevalent.
>
> >
> > An ethnicity would be the Serbs or croats in Yugoslavia or
>
> > the Copts in Egypt. A culture would be people of any race
> > and ethnicity that share common socialization elements,
> > making them of common habits, traits, dress, food, etc.
> >
> > You are trying to build some kind of straw man for your
> > personal delight. The fact is, there is no objection and
> no
> > racism in the way Arbitron creates audience breaks. You
> seem
> > to want to make this a human rights issue, and it is not.
>
> > >
> >
> AGAIN, FOR ABOUT THE 5,000TH TIME:
> Main Entry: race
> Part of Speech: noun 2
> Definition: ethnic group
> Synonyms: blood, breed, clan, color, cultural group,
> culture, family, folk, house, issue, kin, kind, kindred,
> line, lineage, nation, nationality, offspring, people,
> progeny, seed, species, stock, strain, tribe, type, variety
>
>
> I find it interesting how you continue to defend racism. You
> seem like an intelligent man, and yet you are either very
> ignorant or very okay with discriminating against those that
> Arbitron puts in the "OTHERS" category. Until Arbitron and
> every other company and organization (including
> universities) stops using race as a determining factor for
> ratings, admission, quotas, we will continue to have racism
> in this country. And people like you will continue to defend
> it. It is totally about human rights and about
> discriminating against someone based on their race.

And in Spanish, "raza" not only means race, but "brotherhood" and even "breed" as in cats and dogs. It also means a kind of translucent crack in minerals.

In conventional statistical use in the US, race means white, Black, Asian and Indian/Indigenous?Native American.

In marketing, it is a requirement to get information on consumer groups that behave uniquely. Since there are really 3 major groups in the US, Blacks (race), white (part of a racial group) and Hipanics (cultural group or ethnicity), and each behaves differently as a whole (and can be subdivinded, too...) marketers like to start with an understanding of the media that gives these distinctions.

Obviously, there are all races included in the Hiapanic group, so there would be overlap in ratings this way, so Arbitron forces one of three selections. They ask, on recruit, if a person is black or Hispanic. If they do not say yest to either, they are then "all other."

Look at the reasoning: 75% of all US Hispanics use Spanish radio. So marketers like to know who is Hispanic, as to reach them effectively, they may have to use Spanish creative. Similarly, many marketers find that Black media works best with Black creative. Neither practice discriminates, as it does not take anything away from anyone... it just tailors the message for the specific audience it will be directed at.

Since in the ratings every participant is part of a proportional sample that represents the universe almost precisely, there is no discrimination in braking out the ratings any way advertisers want.

Were you familiar with Arbitron you would know that every book or download as a sample report, and you can see how close to true proportionality they come every time. There is no discrimination there.

As to colleges and workplaces, the quotas by ethnicity or race exist because it was shown that, without them, white non-Hispanic Americans would often discriminate against Blacks, Hispanics and other ethnicities. Untill people become really color blind there will have to be quotas. It is a small price to pay for centuries of inequality.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> >
> I'm not sure what you do for a living,

Try clicking.

Or follow this and play "guess who? with the profiles.
http://www.nab.org/conventions/radioshow/2004/SessionDetail.asp?id=1202346

> but you're definitely
> dillusional in regards to what constitutes "race" in
> America.

I have worked with Census data since the 70's. I know what is a race in reasearch, business and media. Hispanic is not a race.

> If Arbitron weighted diaries towards Whites, every
> other racial group would be crying racism - you know it, I
> know it and everyone who reads this posts knows it.

Great. Because Arbitron does not give anything other than proportional value to each of the three divisions.... Black, other and Hispanic. In LA, there are 42% Hispanics and there are within a few tenths of a percent, 42% Hispanic diaries in tab. There are about 9% Blacks, and the percentage of Black diaries matches almost precisely. The remainder matches the non-Black and non-Hispanic population, and it matches overall and in every age and sex and geographical cell. The survey is entirely proportional.

No group of persons in Arbitron is tabulated at anything other than tier exact percentage in the population.

All surveys have wighting, and it is done to acheive proprotionality. For example, if men 18-24 had poor diary returns, and only 3.7% of the diaries were from that group while 4.2% of the population was in it, then each 18-24 male diary will be weighted up by about 10%. Usually weighting is a much lower percentage, but this is just an example.


> What's
> sad is that you and the majority of people in this country
> now believe it is okay to discriminate against those of us
> that fit into your "OTHERS" category. Instead of this
> country being a melting pot of many cultures, your kind of
> thinking is what will continue to divide this country and
> keep racism alive. I guess that's something you can be proud
> of, can't you?

This is not about discrimination. It is about finding out the radio listening characteristics of groups of people so ad messages may be properly designed and targeted. You can, with the qualitative add ones, find out the percentage of people by station who will buy new luxury cars in the next 12 months. All this goes into an ad buying decision.

HAving been in the area of Meridian, MS, in the early 60's, I know discrimination when I see it. Breaking out station listening by group is not discriminatory.
>
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> This is not about discrimination. It is about finding out
> the radio listening characteristics of groups of people so
> ad messages may be properly designed and targeted. You can,
> with the qualitative add ones, find out the percentage of
> people by station who will buy new luxury cars in the next
> 12 months. All this goes into an ad buying decision.
>
> HAving been in the area of Meridian, MS, in the early 60's,
> I know discrimination when I see it. Breaking out station
> listening by group is not discriminatory.

If that were the case, one wouldn't need to know one's race in order to find out if one were planning on buying a luxury car. If you knew discrimination when you saw it, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

You have a problem separating race from nationality, regionality, political/religious affiliation. For example, you mentioned something about Serbs in a previous post. If you were going to describe someone to me, you wouldn't say, "He looked Serbish." You would say, "He looked (or is) White, Black, Hispanic, etc." I consider myself a Texan, but, no one would describe me to you as "Texan." They would say I'm "White, Black, Hispanic, etc." You seem like an intelligent person; however, you need to put your own self into the category you mentioned in a previous post: idiot savant.
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> > Just out of curiosity, where were you born and where were
> > you raised?
> >
>
> Born in Ohio, partly raised there, rest in Mexico City and
> Quito, Ecuador. College in Quito, San Juan, PR, and Tempe,
> AZ. Worked in Black radio first 4 years, then "Hispanic"
> radio mostly for the next 40 or so.
>
So, you've spent the majority of your life in America and yet are, according to your own words, more proficient in another country's language? That tells me all I need to know about you.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

> > HAving been in the area of Meridian, MS, in the early
> 60's,
> > I know discrimination when I see it. Breaking out station
> > listening by group is not discriminatory.
>
> If that were the case, one wouldn't need to know one's race
> in order to find out if one were planning on buying a luxury
> car. If you knew discrimination when you saw it, you and I
> wouldn't be having this conversation.

One would need to know the ethnicity or language preference to market, however. The leading LA Lexus dealer sells 60% of the new cars to Hispanics, but was thinking of moving until they started advertising in Spanish. Examples like this abound. It is not knowning just how many and what income, but how to best make the message have impact.
>
> You have a problem separating race from nationality,
> regionality, political/religious affiliation. For example,
> you mentioned something about Serbs in a previous post. If
> you were going to describe someone to me, you wouldn't say,
> "He looked Serbish." You would say, "He looked (or is)
> White, Black, Hispanic, etc."

I ceratinly would not say "they look Hispanic" as there is no uniform characteristic of Hispanics. They can be Black, White, Asian, Indigenous, Mestizo or Mulatto. Some "whites" look Hispanic yet are not.. they are, perhaps, Persian, Arab, from the Mediterrainan area, etc. Some Hispanics look Asian. Some Asians look Hispanic. Yadda, yadda, yadda. You just can not typify most groups.

> I consider myself a Texan,
> but, no one would describe me to you as "Texan." They would
> say I'm "White, Black, Hispanic, etc." You seem like an
> intelligent person; however, you need to put your own self
> into the category you mentioned in a previous post: idiot
> savant.

Thanks. I have been trying to reason about this, based on the way business and government are conducted in the US. You have actually offended me more with the idea that you can tell Hispanics by appearance than with the ad hominem. You have no idea what Hispanics are... and I really think it is pretty easy to understand, if one wants to.
>
 
Re: Race and Culture are different qualities.

> > > Just out of curiosity, where were you born and where
> were
> > > you raised?
> > >
> >
> > Born in Ohio, partly raised there, rest in Mexico City and
>
> > Quito, Ecuador. College in Quito, San Juan, PR, and Tempe,
>
> > AZ. Worked in Black radio first 4 years, then "Hispanic"
> > radio mostly for the next 40 or so.
> >
> So, you've spent the majority of your life in America and
> yet are, according to your own words, more proficient in
> another country's language? That tells me all I need to know
> about you.

I spent most of my career in Mexico, Ecuador and nearly 25 years in Puerto Rico. My family is Hispanic, and the language of PR, Mexico and Ecuador is Spanish. In additon, I have worked in 17 of the 20 spanish speaking countries, including stations in places like Chile and Argentina in the last few years... no English there.

While Puerto Rico is part of the US, English is not spoken commonly except in tourist areas.
 
Re: It's about response rates, not race.

Thanks. I have been trying to reason about this, based on
> the way business and government are conducted in the US. You
> have actually offended me more with the idea that you can
> tell Hispanics by appearance than with the ad hominem. You
> have no idea what Hispanics are... and I really think it is
> pretty easy to understand, if one wants to.
> >
>
Sorry. You're the last one to talk about being offended when YOU think it's okay to group anyone who's not Hispanic or Black into an "OTHERS" category. After doing a little more research this is what I found:

Census definition of race

White
Black
American Indian, Eskimo, or Aleut
Asian or Pacific Islander
Other race
Hispanic origin
Not Hispanic origin
http://courses.washington.edu/geog200/ethnicity/tsld002.htm

It is quite easy to understand.
 
Re: Now you are just posting things that are untrue.

>
> Census definition of race
>
> White
> Black
> American Indian, Eskimo, or Aleut
> Asian or Pacific Islander
> Other race
> Hispanic origin
> Not Hispanic origin

This is ABSOLUTELY untrue. I posted the Census questionnaire link directly to the US centus website. The first items 3 on your list are in the "race" question on the form. Item 4 is actually one of 11 options that losely define "Asian," and #5 is actually, " some other race... print race."

The last two items, the Hispanic yes/no ones, are a separate question, not a subset of the race question.

First, you indicate race, where Hispanic is not an option. Then you indicate if yu are also Hispanic or not. In fact, ther eis a bold faced instruction that says you must answer both questions.

>
> It is quite easy to understand.
>

It is if you go to the source. You didn't. You went somewhere where wrong information is posted. And you took the wrong information and posted it, further perpetuating a lie.

http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d61a.pdf is the source on the census website.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to be of the " Hispanic race" since there are Black, white, Asian and Indigenous Hispanics as well as mestizo and mulatto variants. What you are suggesting is the same as suggesting that " American" is a race.
 
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