At What Point Will 94.7 WFME Be Sold?

[danikayser84]

Unlike with AM stations (where you can, for example, buy a co-channel AM to turn in the license and upgrade your own AM), FM stations use pre-allocations... so no, you couldn't buy WIGX and turn in the license in order to move 94.7 in

 

[badjef]

If you mean WAWZ, it is NOT the same at all. There is no 99.1 New York City allocation, 94.7 IS.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Jeff, even though it is a NYC allocation, that does not mean or guarantee that the transmitter HAS to be located in NYC. First of all, it's licensed to Newark. Second of all, even if it were licensed to NYC, the transmitter can remain where it is and they put a city grade signal (at least on paper) over the entire city. THAT is all that is needed. There are many places where the actual transmitters are located outside the city of license.

You don't seem to grasp the situation with it being short spaced in relation to 94.7 WMAS, 94.3 WIGX, 94.3 WJLK to the south and 94.5 WPST to the south and west. It isn't going to move without major things happening, such as WMAS moving, WIGX moving or going dark.

When WFME signed on, the FM dial was a lot less crowded and the current spacing/allocation table rules didn't exist. That allowed other stations to crop up around it, effectively "walling it in" to where it is now.

This isn't a legal issue either, this is an engineering issue. It just won't fit if moved to Empire. Period. Unless there is a downgrade to a B1, and even then I think there is still a spacing issue to WIGX. And there's no room at the inn for a directional antenna at Empire. 4TS, yes, there is room, but that much of a DA is going to lower the value of the station almost as much as being on First Mountain.

Option B would be to see how the new 1 World Trade center would work with regard to WMAS, but that still doesn't solve the WIGX problem at all, without a major DA in place.

If this thing could have been moved 30 years ago, someone would have done it.

1.) To answer that comment, you would have to understand Family Radio and their objective, and one of their objectives was not to spend any money on "unnecessary" upgrades. They weren't paying Empire rent, or to anybody else. They were a low budget operation from Oakland, California. The signal from West Orange was adequate for their purpose.

2.) WJLK does not come into play because, with Empire, in essence, they would be moving 9 miles AWAY from Tinton Falls. Although, possibly, if 1WTC would become available for broadcast, should that be an option they may want to explore, which does not seen likely, yet. When 1WTC is complete and occupancy is low, that thinking may change. But as for now, the antenna will be cosmetic.

3.) Even if they move and are not initially a 6kw signal, it is easier to do power changes than it is to do the physical move. Yes, the expense is there. "Pay me now, or pay me later." Well it's later, and it is more expensive - and complicated. But upwards of 3Million good reasons to do it.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[WNTIRadio]

Jeff, it CAN'T happen. For all of the reasons outlined above.

No, WJLK doesn't come in to play at Empire. But I was outlining all of the stations that surround WFME. WJLK would come in to play on a move to 1 WTC, as the signal would then go farther south.

It is boxed in. Just like a house that started out with a lot of woods around it and then it got turned into subdivisions until there was only a 1/4 acre lot left for the original house. No room to expand. It is what it is, and it really isn't half bad being what it is.

 

[ncountysurf]

Perhaps Merlin will make a move similar to recent developments in Chicago. Buy WFME and bring alternative back to NYC. Although RXP didn't have the heritage of WKQX/Q101, might Merlin put alternative RXP on 94.7? (hopefully with better programmers than the previous RXP and the current 97.1 HD2)

Or... maybe Merlin could pick up 87.7 WNYZ???

 

[CTListener]

Perhaps Merlin will make a move similar to recent developments in Chicago. Buy WFME and bring alternative back to NYC. Although RXP didn't have the heritage of WKQX/Q101, might Merlin put alternative RXP on 94.7? (hopefully with better programmers than the previous RXP and the current 97.1 HD2)

Or... maybe Merlin could pick up 87.7 WNYZ???

Aren't the 87.7s supposed to disappear once the last of the LPTVs are ordered to go digital or sign off?

 

[radioguy39nj]

It is boxed in. Just like a house that started out with a lot of woods around it and then it got turned into subdivisions until there was only a 1/4 acre lot left for the original house. No room to expand. It is what it is, and it really isn't half bad being what it is.

Case closed! Why would Cumulus or any other major operator want 94.7 if it's boxed in and can't be built out? Those major operators want those listeners east of the Hudson and they can't reach them on 94.7. IMHO, Family Radio's got a big problem.

Apparently, no such issue existed with Family's 106.9 stations in Philly and SF. They both found commercial buyers easily. No wonder ESPN wasn't interested!

 

[badjef]

Jeff, it CAN'T happen. For all of the reasons outlined above.

No, WJLK doesn't come in to play at Empire. But I was outlining all of the stations that surround WFME. WJLK would come in to play on a move to 1 WTC, as the signal would then go farther south.

It is boxed in. Just like a house that started out with a lot of woods around it and then it got turned into subdivisions until there was only a 1/4 acre lot left for the original house. No room to expand. It is what it is, and it really isn't half bad being what it is.

I understand your analogy, But this is not that type of Real Estate, if it was, you would have different owners of the property depending of the time of year and atmosphere.

This will happen, not to WTC, not only because it moves the signal south, but there won't be a functional broadcast facility. Empire is, and always has been, the option.

I have seen many downgrades of stations to move others into the Metro areas. This will just take more time and each of you guys are dismissing it out of hand.

In looking at WPLJ ( I consider that one of the best signals off of Empire due to the short-space) utilizing the master, the same antenna that our proposed 94.7 would use, there appears to be as much overlap with the 54dbu with 'JLK as there is with WIGX. And the FCC's database does not appear to take the Bay into consideration which means signal strength at the WJLK transmitter would be higher than it would be a WIGX.

In addition, this moves further 94.7 away from WPST at 94.5 (I still can't get used to that).

I still see WMAS as the only station in the way. And it may be deflowered/moved by Cumulus, if necessary, and, if they are the buyer.

Remember, Poly-tics trumps everything.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[fybush]

In looking at WPLJ ( I consider that one of the best signals off of Empire due to the short-space) utilizing the master, the same antenna that our proposed 94.7 would use, there appears to be as much overlap with the 54dbu with 'JLK as there is with WIGX. And the FCC's database does not appear to take the Bay into consideration which means signal strength at the WJLK transmitter would be higher than it would be a WIGX.

WFME and WJLK-FM were short-spaced at the time the current spacing rules were adopted in 1964, and that short-spacing was grandfathered. Were it not for other factors (IF spacing to 105.1 and co-channel spacing to WIGX), WJLK-FM could move all the way to West Orange if it so desired. As far as FCC rules are concerned, there is no interference between WFME and WJLK-FM.

WFME and WIGX (then WGSM-FM) were not short-spaced at the time the current spacing rules were adopted in 1964 and thus have no grandfathering with respect to each other. They are currently separated by 81.76 km. The minimum "full" spacing allowed under FCC rules (73.207) between a B and a second-adjacent A is 69 km. The absolute minimum "short" spacing allowed under 73.215, the rule allowing the use of directional antennas or a terrain showing for contour spacing, is 63 km. It is 59.3 km from Empire to the WIGX site. Any application proposing the use of Empire for WFME as a class B will be returned as unacceptable for filing, since it violates 73.207 and 73.215.

1WTC doesn't help any. It's 62.2 km from there to WIGX, and that rounds to 62 km, still too close even for 73.215. And it's also 59.3 km from WIGX to 4 Times Square.

I still see WMAS as the only station in the way.

And you continue to be incorrect.

Remember, Poly-tics trumps everything.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Indeed it does. The "grandfathering" of pre-1964 short-spaced allocations was a political move, not a technical one. But here's the thing: when that grandfathering was put into place, it was done (as are all FCC rules) in a way that set a precedent that could be followed by any station clever enough to understand the way the rule was written.

Any rule change that would somehow magically allow for a WFME-WIGX shortspacing would have huge consequences for other move-ins around the country. I'm not saying it would never happen - the FCC has done stranger things - but it's not going to happen just to satisfy some sort of mystical "magic New York City allocation" theory that has no basis in the FCC rulebook.

It is marginally more likely that a very motivated WFME buyer might find a way to move WIGX out of the way. (Though even if that were to happen, moving or downgrading WMAS-FM isn't as easy as it may seem, thanks to an allocations change up there that now has that facility licensed to Enfield CT as the sole local service.)

It is much more likely that Family will end up selling WFME "as-is, where-is," for a price that reflects the current facility and the real-world likelihood of an NYC upgrade, which is minimal at best.

 

[XCountry285]

Perhaps Merlin will make a move similar to recent developments in Chicago. Buy WFME and bring alternative back to NYC. Although RXP didn't have the heritage of WKQX/Q101, might Merlin put alternative RXP on 94.7? (hopefully with better programmers than the previous RXP and the current 97.1 HD2)

Or... maybe Merlin could pick up 87.7 WNYZ???

How far does 87.7's signal go? on google map it says it barely covers the metro area. I can get it in West Milford. I don't know why that is. I wouldn't want RXP back, I'd want KRock back. RXP was too much of a failure.

 

[stationless listener]

You guys can have that argument about 94.7's spacing issues. For myself, the possibilities for a new owner of the stick, with ESPN out of the way, become more interesting. I could see the likes of Greater Media, Entercom and even Merlin kicking the tires. Townsquare should look at this as well, if even only to secure northern New Jersey further. I would not like the usual suspects (CC, CBS, Cumulus, another non-comm) getting it.

Greater Media - finally getting a foot into the NYC market. They could program against Cumulus' WPLJ for that why-so-coveted New Jersey female market. Then, hopefully, 'PLJ gets flipped to a format I would be more interested in. By that I don't mean news/talk.

Entercom - All I know is they have a presence on the West Coast and recently bought KBLX. They've done country, so it could be done here as well.

Townsquare - Use 94.7 to complement their 101.5 signal in Trenton. The question is would they stay with the current format and tweak it or go fully to news/talk or to music.

Merlin - It would make much better sense, IMO, than purchasing the 87.7 stick in Chicago. I have no idea why they did that. They could then offer that station up for moving the Rush/Sean/Glenn block of shows there, as they fit better with the demos of much of northern NJ.

As for when (the point of this thread), I'm thinking middle of December when it finally goes down. I think Family Radio to looking at what their financial situation looks like by then before deciding it's time to sell WFME.

 

[reelyreal]

I think what's crazy is the assumption that the station is worthless and undesireable. We're not talking about a class A in the woods of Wyoming, it's freakin' Newark. Okay, the signal isn't great over Manhattan. It's not "HOT ROCKIN', FLAME-THROWIN'!" Bummer. It's still worth a mint, and it still has a huge profit potential right where it is.

People in New Jersey do buy things.

As for a buyer, I'd be super surprised to see it as a stand-alone in the market.

 

[ncountysurf]

Perhaps Merlin will make a move similar to recent developments in Chicago. Buy WFME and bring alternative back to NYC. Although RXP didn't have the heritage of WKQX/Q101, might Merlin put alternative RXP on 94.7? (hopefully with better programmers than the previous RXP and the current 97.1 HD2)

Or... maybe Merlin could pick up 87.7 WNYZ???

How far does 87.7's signal go? on google map it says it barely covers the metro area. I can get it in West Milford. I don't know why that is. I wouldn't want RXP back, I'd want KRock back. RXP was too much of a failure.

KRock is still on the air at 92.3 HD2, so unless CBS gets it (which isn't happening), KRock isn't coming back.

 

[luperm]

Merlin and Cumulus seem to be the only legit players left in the game here. It sounds like Merlin has their eye on it.
Entercom has no presence in NYC, and I can't see them operating a stand-alone in Market #1. Same goes for Greater Media and Townsquare.
The idea that it will be "reborn" as a NJ-centric station does not make sense. It will probably sell at a slight discount to a NYC stick, but it's still a very potent signal.

Is 97.5/WALK-FM still on the block? Pair it up with 94.7 and you have a very interesting combo.

 

[secondchoice]

I think what's crazy is the assumption that the station is worthless and undesireable. It's still worth a mint, and it still has a huge profit potential right where it is.

People in New Jersey do buy things.

Didn't NJ have the highest average income of the 50 states? And isn't most of this "income" with in 30 miles of NYC? If true: Why would you spend a small fortune to "downgrade" the average income of your listener? I hope and assume the "broker" or "owner" who listed this property, has advertised the income levels of zip-codes in the coverage.

 

[badjef]

I think what's crazy is the assumption that the station is worthless and undesireable. We're not talking about a class A in the woods of Wyoming, it's freakin' Newark. Okay, the signal isn't great over Manhattan. It's not "HOT ROCKIN', FLAME-THROWIN'!" Bummer. It's still worth a mint, and it still has a huge profit potential right where it is.

People in New Jersey do buy things.

As for a buyer, I'd be super surprised to see it as a stand-alone in the market.

Z100 is still Newark, and was the other freq In West Orange.

With me, it was more of a "flame thrower" before the move. But I didn't count, then. As I wouldn't count, now.

When Z100 moved to Empire, it extended it's reach to millions more an could be served where it was.

You are right, Newark is not Wyoming, but to the millions more who were served by the Empire move, it might as well have been.

There are fewer places in a more unique position than Empire enjoys.

It is why I have always called it the "Center of the Universe". (Times Square started claiming that much later)

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[davideduardo]

Didn't NJ have the highest average income of the 50 states? And isn't most of this "income" with in 30 miles of NYC? If true: Why would you spend a small fortune to "downgrade" the average income of your listener? I hope and assume the "broker" or "owner" who listed this property, has advertised the income levels of zip-codes in the coverage.

Ad agencies buy cost per point, and most buys don't have an income stratification.

And discretionary income is dependent on the cost of living, including taxes, utilities, etc. NJ has about the highest national rank on all of those factors, making it far less "outstanding" on the income question.

 

[radioguy39nj]

Is 97.5/WALK-FM still on the block? Pair it up with 94.7 and you have a very interesting combo.

WALK-FM is for sale? Didn't know that!

 

[MickeyD]

And then there are the broadcasters who have successful operations around the country who might want entry into the top market.

AFAIK, WFME's stick cannot be relocated to Manhattan to become a full-market class B. Why would a major operator want a signal-challenged FM in market #1? Without at least the possibility of becoming a full-market B, 94.7 is going to be a tough sell.

I still think NJ 101.5 should use WFME as a simulcast. The 101.5 signal is terrible anywhere north of I-78. WFME would give them greater coverage in Bergen, Passaic, Essex, and Morris Counties - some of the most lucrative counties in the state in terms of advertising dollars.

I agree with you but I am wondering if they have the cash for that right now. Didn't Town Square just acquire a pile of Cumulus stations?

 

[luperm]

Is 97.5/WALK-FM still on the block? Pair it up with 94.7 and you have a very interesting combo.

WALK-FM is for sale? Didn't know that!

It's been on the block for years in that Aloha trust. Whether they ever sell it is another story.

 

[TimeIsTight]

WALK-FM is for sale? Didn't know that! Smiley

WALK is one of those stations that Clear Channel had to sell to the Aloha Trust to avoid exceeding media ownership limits in particular markets. The purpose of the Aloha Trust was to hold the stations until they could be sold, so anything Aloha Trust owns is "for sale" including WALK AM and FM.

, WFME's stick cannot be relocated to Manhattan to become a full-market class B. Why would a major operator want a signal-challenged FM in market #1? Without at least the possibility of becoming a full-market B, 94.7 is going to be a tough sell. Smiley

We've been through this so many times, but essentially WFME has a signal that is 15-miles west of the Empire State Building. As a result its signal doesn't go as far into Nassau or Suffolk County on Long Island as an ESB signal would. But it still probably covers about 13-million of the 15-million people in the New York Radio Market. So, possibly its worth 13/15th of an ESB signal.
For the record, its signal goes far east of the Hudson River. It ain't perfect, but its got a lot of potential, even for the biggest of operators.

I still think NJ 101.5 should use WFME as a simulcast. The 101.5 signal is terrible anywhere north of I-78. WFME would give them greater coverage in Bergen, Passaic, Essex, and Morris Counties - some of the most lucrative counties in the state in terms of advertising dollars.

It certainly would.

I agree with you but I am wondering if they have the cash for that right now. Didn't Town Square just acquire a pile of Cumulus stations?

One thing Townsquare may not have to worry about, when the numbers make sense, is having enough cash at any given moment to do a purchase.

Townsquare is mostly owned by Oaktree Capital Management which has $82-billion under management. And Towsquare was created by Oaktree to acquire radio stations, mostly in medium and smaller markets. But, if they see potential in a deal like WFME, they have what it takes to do it.

Didn't NJ have the highest average income of the 50 states?

Within the New York area, some parts of New Jersey offer income levels that are double what you will find in New York City. Counties like Morris, Somerset, and Hunterdon have median household incomes of between $95,000 and $100,000 a year, while NYC itself has a median household income of about $50,000. While depending on product or service offered, some advertisers may not care about income levels, for other products and services income level is very important. Basically, people have to be able to afford what you are selling. And sometimes marketers may just pick an appropriate format to place spots on and specifically reject other formats. Often, the most important difference between listeners to the two formats is income. Those McMansion living, expensive SUV driving, suburban soccer moms who prefer AC are a lot more interesting to many advertisers than subway riding, rent paying, lower-income women who prefer other formats.

An operation similar to NJ-101.5 on WFME could dominate its own embedded higher income North Jersey radio market, and many New Jersey based advertisers would find that efficient and attractive. North and Central Jersey represent about a third of the entire NY market population, and if a station could dominate in that third, it would still have good overall market numbers and potentially do very well. It's just geographic market segmentation, instead of ethnic, age, or gender differentiation. NJ-101.5 has already proved the concept can work in the state, and simulcasting the programming but separating the ratings and the spots, could be efficient, and potentially profitable to do. It's the one option for WFME where its current signal is actually an advantage.