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At What Point Will 94.7 WFME Be Sold?

luperm said:
If push comes to shove, I think WCBS-FM is screwed here. The station has a demo problem.
But again...do the math: Will WFAN on FM + A syndicated sports format on AM bill more than what's there now?
Otherwise, CBS is maxed out...no way around it.

I think CBS-FM is the last one to have to worry. While the demos may be high, from what I've read here, it seems as if they have been billing quite well and faring fairly well 25-54, given that the station is targeted at an older audience than most in the market.

With a new program director at the helm and the backlash they received last time around after flipping it, I'm pretty sure they would try to do all they could to save the station and the brand before blowing it up.

I'm pretty sure either Fresh or NOW would be flipped sooner than CBS-FM. The station still has life in it.
 
Lee Anderson said:
There is some speculation that 101.9 could be on offer... Tom Taylor wrote about it in today's TRI.
Where is this TRI located/ what is it? Also, 101.9 just flipped formats to something that's not in NYC. Look at 98.7's ratings since their flip from Kiss it hasn't been good. I say bring Kiss back to 98.7.
 
XCountry285 said:
I'm almost positive that 101.9 isn't flipping formats anytime soon. They started adding DJs. They're brand new!

Logically speaking, you should be correct.
But Merlin Media apparently continues to be quick to make changes to its radio stations, before giving their programming much of an opportunity to gain traction.
The most recent example is WIQI in Chicago. It was flipped from all-news to a Generation X type music format, playing mostly 90's songs, a month ago. But over the past few days the music has been changed to a Hot A/C type mix.

WIQI Changes: http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/69613/wiqi-chicago-shifts-current/
 
Barry said:
XCountry285 said:
I'm almost positive that 101.9 isn't flipping formats anytime soon. They started adding DJs. They're brand new!

Logically speaking, you should be correct.
But Merlin Media apparently continues to be quick to make changes to its radio stations, before giving their programming much of an opportunity to gain traction.
The most recent example is WIQI in Chicago. It was flipped from all-news to a Generation X type music format, playing mostly 90's songs, a month ago. But over the past few days the music has been changed to a Hot A/C type mix.

WIQI Changes: http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/69613/wiqi-chicago-shifts-current/

Are they doing any research to back up their sudden change in Chicago.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Giacomo Siffredi said:
Well then, how about NBC's 97.1FM WNWS debacle? Or CBS's FM Talk @ 102.7 on WNEW debacle? What about CBS's second FM spoken word attempt, the Free FM debacle on then 92.3FM WFNY-FM? Or what is now shaping up to be the WEPN-FM New ESPN New York 98.7FM debacle?

Whoa. The NIS episode in New York was decades ago, before FM had even become a dominant medium in any demo outside of 12-34?

The CBS hot talk effort was a misguided attempt to capture the Spirit of Stern all day by attracting 18-34's. However, 18-34's don't like talk much... whether they liked Stern or not. There was no format hole there, and the effort was doomed.

The WEPN switch has to be judged by two standards... normal radio metrics like billing and ratings... and the image enhancement and branding for the ESPN mark. Like sister operation Radio Disney, ESPN is a lot about making ESPN ubiquitous in the sports area... so saying it is an impending debacle is just absurd.

By the time the NBC News and Information Service (NIS) was launched over WNWS 97.1FM in 1975, Several NYC FMs had already developed significant audiences, including WNEW-FM. Had NBC's news format been successful, it would have developed traction. Even if not on a national level, it could have continued locally.

And while WEPN-FM cannot be measured by audience alone, as you correctly point out, $12 million a year, even for ESPN, is a lot of money to spend on simply "branding". They already had that with 1050 AM before they LMA'd 98.7FM. They realize the potential for more younger listeners is with an FM signal. However, it is an impending debacle because its ratings, so far, have tanked when contrasted with its predecessor format, WRKS 98.7 Kiss FM. ESPN will have to accept this inevitability if the ratings continue to slide or if they stabilize at their present levels. But the question is, who else would accept this?

DavidEduardo said:
From KSL to KIRO to KQED to WTOP to WSB to WOKV to WIBC and dozens more cases, the future is now. FMs have replaced AMs or been added to them. When the original AM format was strong, albeit aging, there was pretty uniform success. And more are coming.

You forgot WIP Philadelphia whose 610 AM simulcast at 94.1FM, now WIP-FM Philadelphia, displaced heritage rocker WYSP ;) And that's another example of an FM spoken word format that has been near bottom feeding the PPMs recently...
 
Giacomo Siffredi said:
By the time the NBC News and Information Service (NIS) was launched over WNWS 97.1FM in 1975, Several NYC FMs had already developed significant audiences, including WNEW-FM. Had NBC's news format been successful, it would have developed traction. Even if not on a national level, it could have continued locally.

Among all news listeners, who are, for the most part, over 35 or even over 40, FM was not dominant in 1975. It was not even close to parity. 12+ parity, nationally, came several years later but it took longer for FM to be dominant, especially in the older demos.

Further, NIS was not successful because it was neither local nor as good as it had to be to be successful. Most NIS stations were AM, and the AMs were not successful, either. So the issue there is not even an FM matter... it was one of whether the NIS product was any good.

Oh, and using WNEW FM as an example makes little sense... album rock was predominantly an 18 34 thing and does not reflect any FM potential that news might or might not have had. And since all news is a costly format, going it "solo" when NIS died was not an option because the format, with few exceptions, was a Top 10 market proposition only.

And while WEPN-FM cannot be measured by audience alone, as you correctly point out, $12 million a year, even for ESPN, is a lot of money to spend on simply "branding".

But the success of ESPN is all about branding and brand extensions. If you look at Disney's gross revenues, you can see that $12 million is pocket change.

They already had that with 1050 AM before they LMA'd 98.7FM. They realize the potential for more younger listeners is with an FM signal.

Sports does fine in younger demos on AM. The issue with 1050 is the night signal, and since "night" begins in the middle of PM drive in the winter months and ends well into AM drive as well, it was critical to get a better signal... and being on FM in the long run is going to be an advantage.

However, it is an impending debacle because its ratings, so far, have tanked when contrasted with its predecessor format, WRKS 98.7 Kiss FM.

The Disney folks could care less what WRKS had, ratings wise. They were looking for a signal, not a format. Right now, the men 25-54 share is in the same "ballpark" as the 25-54 men number for WCBS and WINS... they don't look dismal as you suggest.


You forgot WIP Philadelphia whose 610 AM simulcast at 94.1FM, now WIP-FM Philadelphia, displaced heritage rocker WYSP ;) And that's another example of an FM spoken word format that has been near bottom feeding the PPMs recently...

There are very few such examples. The successes far, far outnumber the setbacks. And, in the majority of the unsuccessful situations, it has been because a relatively poor performing AM has added or moved to FM, where it simply becomes an underperforming FM... such as WMAL.
 
DavidEduardo said:
From KSL to KIRO to KQED to WTOP to WSB to WOKV to WIBC and dozens more cases, the future is now. FMs have replaced AMs or been added to them. When the original AM format was strong, albeit aging, there was pretty uniform success. And more are coming.

Thank you, David! If today, you had CBS Sports Radio on 660 AM and WFAN on FM (92.3 or 102.7), tonight's Giants-Jets game would not have to be aired on WCBS-FM. CBS-FM listeners get very upset when Giants' pre-season games get bumped to their station.

New York may be one the last markets to see news, talk and sports programming migrate to FM, but it is going to happen eventually. Demos for AM stations, regardless of signal strength, dictate it. :)
 
WNTIRadio said:
With its tight format of headlines and fast moving stores, 1010 WINS is the "ALL NEWS ALL THE TIME" station. They even brand as such. Why would CBS dilute or change a winning brand and format????

With their longer stories and more conversational approach, 880 is better suited to programming interruptions from Yankee games than 1010.

You've got it backwards here. And I'll bet that if CBS winds up with an FM, it's either WFME (doubtful as they would have to unload 1010 or another AM signal for an inferior FM) or some kind of two way swap with SBS for 93.1.

The Yankees will defnitely not be returning to WCBS-AM in 2013.

Yes, WINS is a winning brand and format and has been for over four decades. IMHO, their tightly formatted all-news presentation while it does well on directional 1010 AM, would not be successful on a full-market FM that reaches the NYC suburbs that have long turned to 880 AM for their news. On drectional 1010, WINS superserves NYC. A move to FM is a game changer.

The format I proposed for WINS on FM would be news-intensive and offer local talk, a format NYC doesn't currently have, incrediblly enough. Demographic issues for AM stations regardless of signal strength make the migration of spoken word formats to FM inevitable.

CBS is never going to sell 660 AM or 880 AM, both 50 kW, non-D blasters. The only way to acquire another NYC FM, whether it's 93.1 or 99.5, would be to unload 1010. It's a tough business decision, but one that might have to be made for the long term. :)
 
Why, just because it's on an FM, would you change the winning brand of 1010??

So it superserves the city on an FM and gets slightly better numbers and the demo comes down a bit. Why change it? Makes no sense to me.

Changing 1010 just because it's on an FM is like when someone had the brilliant idea of "new Coke". And we all remember how well that did.
 
WNTIRadio said:
Why, just because it's on an FM, would you change the winning brand of 1010??

So it superserves the city on an FM and gets slightly better numbers and the demo comes down a bit. Why change it? Makes no sense to me.

Changing 1010 just because it's on an FM is like when someone had the brilliant idea of "new Coke". And we all remember how well that did.
Hey, I liked New Coke! It was a little different taste and it was a refreshing change from the Coke and Pepsi Challenge days.

But, I agree, keep the "1010 Wins" name and just add the "simulcast" to FM. Why change a brand that is the Pavlov's dog of imaging.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
But, I agree, keep the "1010 Wins" name and just add the "simulcast" to FM. Why change a brand that is the Pavlov's dog of imaging.

For all this to make sense the 1010 has got to go, CBS has to unload the 1010 frequency so it can't be a simulcast.

Very simply the new station becomes "WINS News." A TV, transit, billboard, and print ad campaign would say something like
Your Source for NYC News has moved. WINS News is now at 660, or 99.5 or wherever. Same WINS News at a new and improved location.

The 1010 gets dropped and the new frequency address replaces it.
 
TimeIsTight said:
But, I agree, keep the "1010 Wins" name and just add the "simulcast" to FM. Why change a brand that is the Pavlov's dog of imaging.

For all this to make sense the 1010 has got to go, CBS has to unload the 1010 frequency so it can't be a simulcast.

Very simply the new station becomes "WINS News." A TV, transit, billboard, and print ad campaign would say something like
Your Source for NYC News has moved. WINS News is now at 660, or 99.5 or wherever. Same WINS News at a new and improved location.

The 1010 gets dropped and the new frequency address replaces it.
WINS doesn't always use the 1010 in front. But to drop "1010 WINS" as the name of the station, in doing that, you risk confusing the listener to think that their beloved 1010 no longer exists.

For example: What if your favorite DJ changes hi/her name and you don't know it has happened?

What's in a name? Everything, you have to ease into the new band and format, unless you are going after a different demographic, such as what happened in the swap from 105.9 to 96.3.

The other part is the range for commuters. What do you do when they are driving inside of the range for the AM, but not the FM? Remember, you can run out of FM quicker than most AM's in NYC - reverse of most every place else.

You are then upsetting the habits of Commuters. They get freaked out at too many brake lights.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
But to drop "1010 WINS" as the name of the station, in doing that, you risk confusing the listener to think that their beloved 1010 no longer exists.

1010 is the address, if you really want to "confuse" the listeners, keep calling it 1010 and having them go to that frequency to find a totally different format, possibly even in a foreign language. Now that's really negative confusion.

It's no different than what happens when somebody, or a company, moves and changes address. If you keep going to the old address you're really not going to find what you are looking for. That's not only confusion, that is often "completely lost." I'm sure you must have had some cab passengers with this problem.

The other part is the range for commuters. What do you do when they are driving inside of the range for the AM, but not the FM? Remember, you can run out of FM quicker than most AM's in NYC - reverse of most every place else.

We have been through this before, with the exception of extreme Eastern Long Island, and possibly northern Putnam County, the class-B FMs all cover the entire New York Radio Market. If somebody lives outside that range, they aren't counted in the ratings anyway, even if they commute to the city everyday, and therefore do not matter to the station's bottom line. On the Jersey side of the NY Market, 1010 WINS has always had a far poorer signal than any of the NYC FMs. Moving the format to 660-AM or any of the Class-B FMs will help WINS find a totally new audience in addition to still serving its old one. But once it's off 1010-AM, NEVER refer to it as 1010. Marketing 101, it will become the new and improved WINS NEWS at X address.
 
WNTIRadio said:
Why, just because it's on an FM, would you change the winning brand of 1010??

So it superserves the city on an FM and gets slightly better numbers and the demo comes down a bit. Why change it? Makes no sense to me.

Why change WINS if it moves to FM? Because WCBS has long been the news choice of the suburbs, especially in areas where WINS' signal is questionable. WINS has long been the news choice in the five boroughs of NYC. A move to FM makes WINS a full-market signal, which it isn't on 1010. IMHO, CBS won't let WINS pirate it's 880 flagship. If CBS puts a NY news station on FM, it will be WCBS. WBBM Chicago is a 50 kW non-D blaster on 780 AM and it simulcasts on 105.9 FM. :)
 
TimeIsTight said:
But to drop "1010 WINS" as the name of the station, in doing that, you risk confusing the listener to think that their beloved 1010 no longer exists.

1010 is the address, if you really want to "confuse" the listeners, keep calling it 1010 and having them go to that frequency to find a totally different format, possibly even in a foreign language. Now that's really negative confusion.

It's no different than what happens when somebody, or a company, moves and changes address. If you keep going to the old address you're really not going to find what you are looking for. That's not only confusion, that is often "completely lost." I'm sure you must have had some cab passengers with this problem.

The other part is the range for commuters. What do you do when they are driving inside of the range for the AM, but not the FM? Remember, you can run out of FM quicker than most AM's in NYC - reverse of most every place else.

We have been through this before, with the exception of extreme Eastern Long Island, and possibly northern Putnam County, the class-B FMs all cover the entire New York Radio Market. If somebody lives outside that range, they aren't counted in the ratings anyway, even if they commute to the city everyday, and therefore do not matter to the station's bottom line. On the Jersey side of the NY Market, 1010 WINS has always had a far poorer signal than any of the NYC FMs. Moving the format to 660-AM or any of the Class-B FMs will help WINS find a totally new audience in addition to still serving its old one. But once it's off 1010-AM, NEVER refer to it as 1010. Marketing 101, it will become the new and improved WINS NEWS at X address.
I think we are talking two different things, here.
I'm assuming 1010 stays with WINS News. It sounds as though you are talking about a complete move to FM leaving 1010 to something else. Eventually, that would be the case. But, I think you would have to simul for at least a couple of months to change those habits.

As for the Commuters, radio is a game of perceptions as much as it is reality. Even in a micro-market trending world, you will have people in and out of market especially in New York.

As bad as the signal is at Great Adventure, I have still gone to Z100 sponsored concerts, there. Drive to Seaside and Point Pleasant, NJ, New York radio is still screaming out of the windows of the cars. And these are people from New York and North Jersey.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
 
I think we are talking two different things, here.
I'm assuming 1010 stays with WINS News. It sounds as though you are talking about a complete move to FM leaving 1010 to something else. Eventually, that would be the case. But, I think you would have to simul for at least a couple of months to change those habits.

You can't assume WINS would stay with news on two frequencies for a while, because CBS is maxed out now. If CBS takes title to a new FM frequency it simultaneously has to drop ownership of 1010-AM. So, there can be no couple of months overlap to change those habits, it goes from 1010 WINS one minute to WINS News X-frequency the next. And it would be that way even if other CBS stations like WFAN are involved in the format/frequency shuffle.

As for the Commuters, radio is a game of perceptions as much as it is reality.

As bad as the signal is at Great Adventure, I have still gone to Z100 sponsored concerts, there. Drive to Seaside and Point Pleasant, NJ, New York radio is still screaming out of the windows of the cars. And these are people from New York and North Jersey.

The reality is that stations that sell by ratings, and advertisers who buy spots by the ratings, don't care about listeners who don't live in the Arbitron New York Radio Market. Those listeners are invisible and meaningless. If you don't live in the official market you won't be given a PPM device, and so you can't be counted.

People from NYC who have a PPM device and drive around outside the market in places like Point Pleasant, NJ where the station codes can still be heard by the PPM device will still be counted as if they were listening at home in Queens or Staten Island.

The point of the Z100 Great Adventure concerts is to get loads of New York types to drive to Great Adventure and spend lots of money there. It's not really to get locals from Jackson to use their season passes to catch a big time concert minutes from home.
 
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