Atlanta PPM: December 2012 Ratings

[onetake]

So with WSB's drop and WGST being on life support, where did the news audience go? Although I don't consider WSB to be a news station really, but more of talk station does news, their trend, and the challenges AN106 have had, don't convince me Atlanta is screaming for more news.
We tend to blame the staff, PD, and the owners, but this might not be the city to embrace so much news.
Another factor could be after election fatigue and people just needing a break, or the lack of a major local story. Hurricane Sandy was big for that region. Next month we'll see if Newtown CT had a radio bump. But perhaps more and more for big news people go to TV rather than a local radio station that might not have proved to be consistant or dependable all year.

 

[jabba17]

So with WSB's drop and WGST being on life support, where did the news audience go? Although I don't consider WSB to be a news station really, but more of talk station does news, their trend, and the challenges AN106 have had, don't convince me Atlanta is screaming for more news.
We tend to blame the staff, PD, and the owners, but this might not be the city to embrace so much news.
Another factor could be after election fatigue and people just needing a break, or the lack of a major local story. Hurricane Sandy was big for that region. Next month we'll see if Newtown CT had a radio bump. But perhaps more and more for big news people go to TV rather than a local radio station that might not have proved to be consistant or dependable all year.

There are a lot of places to get news online and on smartphones. Maybe that's where the audience went. I know spoken word is supposed to be one of the more durable formats vs. Internet and other modern alternatives, but maybe pure news is the exception to that rule.

 

[carolinaradio]

Atlanta just doesn't seem like a market that can support All News, to me. I think All News in drive times is a more logical idea.

I've wondered before if Cumulus will eventually use 106.7 for this purpose to get some of its syndicated shows (such as Red Eye Radio, Geraldo, Huckabee) cleared in Atlanta and just do news in big dayparts.

 

[secondchoice]

Detriot a smaller market (around 400 K less people) supports All news WWJ AM. Of course they have a decades head start. It could be the "southern" effect, or the fact it is on AM. The FM all news start ups have not fared well: NYC, Chicago, and Houston.


IMHO All news take at least 2 to 5 years just to change folks habits.

 

[BarryATL]

IMHO All news take at least 2 to 5 years just to change folks habits.

Which is what most of us have been saying all along. Again, will Cumulus have the patience?

 

[acheron1982]

I don't know of any all news stations that have even lasted more than 3 years. I'm not a Hannity or Rush fan but my news has and is still WSB because of the legends that exist between Mellish, the traffic team and the morning news. They may only have news at the top and bottom of the hour during the day but too many times have they broke news first beforee all news. Also, note WSB's ratings bounce from month to month.

On another note, between Q, B, and Star; Who is hurting the most and who has been gaining?

 

[smedge2006]

What is the matter with the posters on this thread?

One year is WAY too soon to judge the success of a spoken word format. Adult listening habits do not change overnight. Cumulus may (for financial reasons) bail out of 106.7... but I would say that if they were not prepared to hang in with it for three years minimum, they should never have adopted the format in the first place.

Get back to us in 2014 or 2015... then we can say whether 106.7 is a success. Any time horizon shorter than that is, as Valerie Geller said, like trying to fly a plane off too short a runway. Which is what Merlin did in Chicago and New York.

All news stations that have lasted more than 3 years:
WCBS, WINS, WTOP, KYW, WWJ, WBBM, KNX, KCBS, etc.etc.

 

[atlantaboy]

IMHO All news take at least 2 to 5 years just to change folks habits.

But what if it doesn't succeed in 5 years? How on earth can Cumulus wait 5 years before making a determination about the format? What happens to their financial situation in the meantime?

It's possible that in 5 years, Dave could've been the #1 station in the metro, if that's the way the musical tide was turning in 2015 - ANYTHING can happen in 5 years

Anyways, FM news/talk formats lasted less than six months in NYC and Chicago before they were flipped back to music stations...no? People are acting like flipping a station to News/Talk is a GUARANTEE that the station will be a huge success in 5 years, when the only guarantee is that Cumulus needs to wait 5 years before ascertaining whether OR NOT the station is successful

 

[carolinaradio]

All news stations that have lasted more than 3 years:
WCBS, WINS, WTOP, KYW, WWJ, WBBM, KNX, KCBS, etc.etc.

All established, heritage stations in large, established markets. Those stations have been around for decades. Who SERIOUSLY gives a format 5 years to succeed, at least anymore? Especially an expensive one like All News? I don't see it happening in today's radio environment.

Like atlantaboy said (actually, the stations in NYC and Chicago were all news for most of the time), they're supposed to sit around, continue to pour money in to talent, and take a loss (potentially) for 5 years to wait and see if it's a success? What if they did that and come 2017 it still wasn't doing well, which would render it a failure? That's insane, 5 years down the drain. I'm all for letting formats have time to grow, but sitting on something that is not working for 5 years is crazy. Sitting on something that isn't working for over 2 years is crazy, IMO.

I think anybody that's going to listen would have scanned across it or heard about it by about 18 months...

 

[chrocket87]

There's a reason they're willing to invest and take the short-term losses. Once a news station takes off, it bills heavily. In the markets all news has become established, news is near or at the top of market billings. Sure, it would be silly to say that it wouldve been impossible for Dave to be #1 in
Five years, but historically speaking, it's extremely unlikely unless some freak cultural event makes the format THAT popular.

 

[bringbackradio]

From the looks of the top 2 portion WALR is only four share points below WVEE. With the shuffle of talent going around at the heritage R&B powerhouse due to Frank Ski's departure I predict Cox's flagship urban will dethrone V-103 for the first time in history next report - overall audience and the respective urban audience.

 

[atlantaboy]

There's a reason they're willing to invest and take the short-term losses. Once a news station takes off, it bills heavily. In the markets all news has become established, news is near or at the top of market billings.

We already have an established news station that's doing that, though - the assumption that people will automatically switch from ANY AM station to ANY FM station is ridiculous - people are obviously comfortable with WSB-AM, they like the programming, so just because someone else starts up an FM N/T station doesn't mean they're going to want to give up the personalities, etc. they like just to hear News on the FM band

It's like asking people to give up The Big Bang Theory or Two And A Half Men to watch a new sitcom just because it has better video quality - why would people make the switch?

BTW FM News/Talk isn't working in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas, Houston,...

Where is it working besides Washington DC? (I. E. beating out an established AM station)

 

[atlantaboy]

^Sorry, just to clarify - I can't find any Top 10 Market where a new FM News/Talk station has even begun to dent the ratings of an established AM News/Talk station, except for Washington DC (which is obviously a unique market which requires a massive amount of people being constantly updated on current events)

 

[carolinaradio]

There's a reason they're willing to invest and take the short-term losses. Once a news station takes off, it bills heavily. In the markets all news has become established, news is near or at the top of market billings.

We already have an established news station that's doing that, though - the assumption that people will automatically switch from ANY AM station to ANY FM station is ridiculous - people are obviously comfortable with WSB-AM, they like the programming, so just because someone else starts up an FM N/T station doesn't mean they're going to want to give up the personalities, etc. they like just to hear News on the FM band

It's like asking people to give up The Big Bang Theory or Two And A Half Men to watch a new sitcom just because it has better video quality - why would people make the switch?

BTW FM News/Talk isn't working in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas, Houston,...

Where is it working besides Washington DC? (I. E. beating out an established AM station)

When you mention news/talk on FM, do you mean ALL News (like 106.7) or talk with some news (like WSB)? I'm getting a feeling you mean All News, but I'm not sure...they're two different formats.

I'm not aware of any FM News/Talk stations in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, or NYC - All News is working quite well in Chicago (WBBM's All News is also on FM) and San Francisco (where KABC is simulcast on FM, and remember the AM/FM ratings are combined even though it just lists the AM, so we don't know how well each frequency is doing). All News was tried for a brief while in NYC and Chicago (WIQI) on FM.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of WSB's listeners are coming from WSBB-FM.

 

[atlantaboy]

There's a reason they're willing to invest and take the short-term losses. Once a news station takes off, it bills heavily. In the markets all news has become established, news is near or at the top of market billings.

We already have an established news station that's doing that, though - the assumption that people will automatically switch from ANY AM station to ANY FM station is ridiculous - people are obviously comfortable with WSB-AM, they like the programming, so just because someone else starts up an FM N/T station doesn't mean they're going to want to give up the personalities, etc. they like just to hear News on the FM band

It's like asking people to give up The Big Bang Theory or Two And A Half Men to watch a new sitcom just because it has better video quality - why would people make the switch?

BTW FM News/Talk isn't working in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas, Houston,...

Where is it working besides Washington DC? (I. E. beating out an established AM station)

When you mention news/talk on FM, do you mean ALL News (like 106.7) or talk with some news (like WSB)? I'm getting a feeling you mean All News, but I'm not sure...they're two different formats.

I'm not aware of any FM News/Talk stations in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, or NYC - All News is working quite well in Chicago (WBBM's All News is also on FM) and San Francisco (where KABC is simulcast on FM, and remember the AM/FM ratings are combined even though it just lists the AM, so we don't know how well each frequency is doing). All News was tried for a brief while in NYC and Chicago (WIQI) on FM.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of WSB's listeners are coming from WSBB-FM.

Sorry, I guess I was combining News with News/Talk...

Even still, the FM All News stations you say are doing well are all simulcasts of heritage AM News stations, so all they have to do is advertise the FM simulcast on the original AM station and most listeners will switch over

IMO that's a completely different situation than a new FM All News station trying to attract new listeners from an established AM News or News/Talk station - for one, you're trying to get people to give up their favorite programming and personalities, and two, except for Washington DC, I think most people would just as well get their news from a News/Talk station (if that's an option they're familiar with)

 

[EJ204]

Cumulus obviously has to give the All-News format time to grow. They realized this going in. Cumulus executives say they think All-News could be the future in a number of markets, with Atlanta the start. But sometimes corporations SAY they'll give an expensive format time, and then they pull the plug.

All-News stations are among the highest billers. WCBS and WINS in NYC, and WTOP Washington, are always among the nation's highest billing stations. WBBM Chicago, KCBS San Francisco, KYW Philadelphia, WBZ Boston and WWJ Detroit finish first, second or third among those cities' highest billing radio stations.

But those are all outside the Sunbelt. For some reason, All-News stations in the Sunbelt either don't do well, or didn't exist up till a year or two ago.

KNX Los Angeles makes money in Market #2 but it's down to #15 in the latest ratings. KRLD Dallas is #20. (KRLD, owned by CBS, is All-News on weekdays, 5am to 7pm.) All the other big Sunbelt cities had no All-News stations till Atlanta and Houston recently got All-News. There's still no All-News in Miami, Tampa, Phoenix or San Diego.

In the last year or so, Cumulus put All-News in Atlanta and Radio One did it in Houston. So far, these stations are getting around a one-share or less.

Why is it that Sunbelt radio listeners don't seem to care about All-News? You'd think in a major city with big traffic problems that a station promising traffic every ten minutes around the clock would do well. You can't do frequent traffic reports if you run syndicated Talk shows. How do you break into Rush or Hannity for a traffic report if a truck overturned on a major highway? How do you do more than six minutes of news an hour during Rush or Hannity? How do you give a meteorologist time to explain several days of weather?

Most Sunbelt cities have a dozen music stations and maybe one News-Talk station among its most listened to stations. No All-News, no NPR among their top stations. Why do they just want to listen to Top 40 or Country or Urban music, unaware of a big traffic jam ahead they could avoid, or the big news stories of the day, or a major weather change? I don't understand it.

 

[atlantaboy]

Why is it that Sunbelt radio listeners don't seem to care about All-News? You'd think in a major city with big traffic problems that a station promising traffic every ten minutes around the clock would do well. You can't do frequent traffic reports if you run syndicated Talk shows. How do you break into Rush or Hannity for a traffic report if a truck overturned on a major highway? How do you do more than six minutes of news an hour during Rush or Hannity? How do you give a meteorologist time to explain several days of weather?

Most Sunbelt cities have a dozen music stations and maybe one News-Talk station among its most listened to stations. No All-News, no NPR among their top stations. Why do they just want to listen to Top 40 or Country or Urban music, unaware of a big traffic jam ahead they could avoid, or the big news stories of the day, or a major weather change? I don't understand it.

I'll throw a couple theories out there...
(1)Sunbelt cities, in general, have less aggressive drivers who don't feel the need to constantly take a hundred shortcuts in a frenzied rush to get home
(2)Sunbelt cities are newer, and tend to lack the competitive cluster of older universities which attract a more intellectual demographic, which would rather educate themselves about current events than drive around listening to "childish" pop songs
(3)Listeners in Sunbelt cities have much less reason to be concerned about weather issues (except for tornado warnings, which they can receive on regular music stations)

Personally, I think theory #2 (lol) is the most significant

 

[BIGSTICK]

Why is it that Sunbelt radio listeners don't seem to care about All-News? You'd think in a major city with big traffic problems that a station promising traffic every ten minutes around the clock would do well. You can't do frequent traffic reports if you run syndicated Talk shows. How do you break into Rush or Hannity for a traffic report if a truck overturned on a major highway? How do you do more than six minutes of news an hour during Rush or Hannity? How do you give a meteorologist time to explain several days of weather?

Most Sunbelt cities have a dozen music stations and maybe one News-Talk station among its most listened to stations. No All-News, no NPR among their top stations. Why do they just want to listen to Top 40 or Country or Urban music, unaware of a big traffic jam ahead they could avoid, or the big news stories of the day, or a major weather change? I don't understand it.

Isn't this the kind of music you like #2.........



I'll throw a couple theories out there...
(1)Sunbelt cities, in general, have less aggressive drivers who don't feel the need to constantly take a hundred shortcuts in a frenzied rush to get home
(2)Sunbelt cities are newer, and tend to lack the competitive cluster of older universities which attract a more intellectual demographic, which would rather educate themselves about current events than drive around listening to "childish" pop songs
(3)Listeners in Sunbelt cities have much less reason to be concerned about weather issues (except for tornado warnings, which they can receive on regular music stations)

Personally, I think theory #2 (lol) is the most significant

Isn't this the kind of music you like,,,, #2.........

 

[smedge2006]

I'll throw a couple theories out there...
(1)Sunbelt cities, in general, have less aggressive drivers who don't feel the need to constantly take a hundred shortcuts in a frenzied rush to get home
(2)Sunbelt cities are newer, and tend to lack the competitive cluster of older universities which attract a more intellectual demographic, which would rather educate themselves about current events than drive around listening to "childish" pop songs
(3)Listeners in Sunbelt cities have much less reason to be concerned about weather issues (except for tornado warnings, which they can receive on regular music stations)

Maybe a little bit of overanalyzing... here are my factors...

1) All News is basically a Top 10 market format. Only in markets above a certain size can they realistically exist as an all-local product. The only Top 10 markets in the South are Atlanta, Dallas and Houston. Miami is close... but if you only count English-speakers it's nowhere near a Top 10 market.

2) Most of the All News stations began as 50 kW AM's... some Cass A's, others what would now be called Class B's. But with the potential to substantially cover the metro. Many of the Sunbelt markets got left out when the frequencies were passed out in the 1930's. Their strongest signals were 5 kilowatters and population quickly outgrew their footprints. Tampa, Miami, Houston are among the major Southern metropolises without a Class A. Miami attempted all-news on a 50 KW station with a high NIF on a Mexican clear frequency. Tampa tried it, first on a 5 Kwer at 1470, which later became the hub of the Home Shopping Network, and then a 5 kW on 570 with a highly restricted directional pattern. Only with the emergence of spoken word on FM has All News become a realistic possibility in many Sunbelt areas.

 

[bnaivar]

Isn't this the kind of music you like,,,, #2.........


;D