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B96 VP/GM out

E

edthedeal

Guest
CBS Radio Rhythmic Top 40 WBBM-FM ( B96 ) Chicago VP/GM John Martin is out after two years on the job . <P ID="signature">______________
JACK FORMAT KILLED THE RADIO BIZ AS WE KNOW IT</P>
 
> CBS Radio Rhythmic Top 40 WBBM-FM ( B96 ) Chicago VP/GM John
> Martin is out after two years on the job .
>
Get ready for PD Todd Cavanah and MD Erik Bradley's head to roll next. The station AGAIN posted its lowest ratings ever.
 
That station is having an identity crisis. A Kelly Clarkson promo weekend to have listeners win their trip all weekend and they still claim to play the Hits N Hip-Hop?? Just heard the dance remix of Since U Been Gone in the Lunch Party. Some listener called in and thought it was her next new hit. They anyhow completely missed the boat with that song since they added it in like August well after it was huge.

My point with that is either go all Top 40 or go all Hip-Hop but this Hits and Hip-Hop crossbreed is just a disaster waiting to happen. They don't want to play the hottest new hip-hop. They don't want to play the Top hits on the Top 40 charts either. Just the safe cookie cutter Hip-Hop & rhythm Pop. Here are current big new Hip-Hop and hits B is not playing and are missing the boat on.

Hip-Hop

T-Pain f Mike Jones "I'm in Love with a stripper"
Eminem f Nate Dogg "Shake That"
Juvenile "Rodeo"
Purple Ribbon All Stars "Kryptonite"
Bow Wow "Fresh Azimiz"
Sean Paul "Temperature"

Pop (hits)

Kelly Clarkson "Walk Away"
Black Eyed Peas "Pump It"
Cascada "Everytime We Touch" (Too dance for them)



It is a mess there and they don't know how to fix it apparently or even play the hottest new hits in their hits n hip-hop format. Time to clean house there.





> > CBS Radio Rhythmic Top 40 WBBM-FM ( B96 ) Chicago VP/GM
> John
> > Martin is out after two years on the job .
> >
> Get ready for PD Todd Cavanah and MD Erik Bradley's head to
> roll next. The station AGAIN posted its lowest ratings
> ever.
>
 
> That station is having an identity crisis. A Kelly Clarkson
> promo weekend to have listeners win their trip all weekend
> and they still claim to play the Hits N Hip-Hop?? Just heard
> the dance remix of Since U Been Gone in the Lunch Party.
> Some listener called in and thought it was her next new hit.
> They anyhow completely missed the boat with that song since
> they added it in like August well after it was huge.
>
> My point with that is either go all Top 40 or go all Hip-Hop
> but this Hits and Hip-Hop crossbreed is just a disaster
> waiting to happen. They don't want to play the hottest new
> hip-hop. They don't want to play the Top hits on the Top 40
> charts either. Just the safe cookie cutter Hip-Hop & rhythm
> Pop. Here are current big new Hip-Hop and hits B is not
> playing and are missing the boat on.
>
> Hip-Hop
>
> T-Pain f Mike Jones "I'm in Love with a stripper"
> Eminem f Nate Dogg "Shake That"
> Juvenile "Rodeo"
> Purple Ribbon All Stars "Kryptonite"
> Bow Wow "Fresh Azimiz"
> Sean Paul "Temperature"
>
> Pop (hits)
>
> Kelly Clarkson "Walk Away"
> Black Eyed Peas "Pump It"
> Cascada "Everytime We Touch" (Too dance for them)
>
>
>
> It is a mess there and they don't know how to fix it
> apparently or even play the hottest new hits in their hits n
> hip-hop format. Time to clean house there.
>
>I think they are doing so, slowly but surely. They got rid of Tim Spinnin Schommer and now the VP/GM. Unless Todd and Erik do something groundbreaking to get the ratings back up again, they need to be shaking in their boots. Besides, I think Cavanah has been there too long anyway. I think the changes he has made over the last eight years have not been good ones. The station eliminated Brian Middleton's mixes (he was one of the best ones at B96), they got rid of the sunday night street flava, they kept Eddie and Jobo (I like them, but there time has loooooong passed in the industry) and they stopped listening to their audience.
You know I realize that Hip-Hop was supposed to be the big thing over the last six years or so, but I think B96 went overboard with it. The reason why they were so popular over the years was because they played DIFFERENT hits mixed together from ALL GENRES of music. You heard R&B, Hip-Hop, House/Dance, Pop and Freestyle (maybe in today's climate Reggaeton). Why don't they do this anymore, this is what made them great in the first place. They kept using the excuse that dance music product dried up, which there were a lot of labels that did fold in the beginning of the 21st century. But why didn't they at least play some dance music that was still hitting it big? There were still some new dance hits over the last few years. Even if they had to rotate some songs, that were a few years old, that would have been okay. A lot of times people actually LIKE the old House/Dance because it was so good.
At least their format would be more diverse than it is now.
They shouldn't be afraid to rotate some of the old House/Dance (freestyle, techno, etc.), I think that is what will bring the audience back. If they don't know, throwback is very, very in. Come on b96, don't be afraid to mix it up!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> > > CBS Radio Rhythmic Top 40 WBBM-FM ( B96 ) Chicago VP/GM
> > John
> > > Martin is out after two years on the job .
> > >
> > Get ready for PD Todd Cavanah and MD Erik Bradley's head
> to
> > roll next. The station AGAIN posted its lowest ratings
> > ever.
> >
>
 
- - - snip - - - -
> >
> > It is a mess there and they don't know how to fix it
> > apparently or even play the hottest new hits in their hits
> n
> > hip-hop format. Time to clean house there.
> >
> >I think they are doing so, slowly but surely. They got rid
> of Tim Spinnin Schommer and now the VP/GM. Unless Todd and
> Erik do something groundbreaking to get the ratings back up
> again, they need to be shaking in their boots. Besides, I
> think Cavanah has been there too long anyway. I think the
> changes he has made over the last eight years have not been
> good ones. The station eliminated Brian Middleton's mixes
> (he was one of the best ones at B96), they got rid of the
> sunday night street flava, they kept Eddie and Jobo (I like
> them, but there time has loooooong passed in the industry)
> and they stopped listening to their audience.
> You know I realize that Hip-Hop was supposed to be the big
> thing over the last six years or so, but I think B96 went
> overboard with it. The reason why they were so popular over
> the years was because they played DIFFERENT hits mixed
> together from ALL GENRES of music. You heard R&B, Hip-Hop,
> House/Dance, Pop and Freestyle (maybe in today's climate
> Reggaeton). Why don't they do this anymore, this is what
> made them great in the first place. They kept using the
> excuse that dance music product dried up, which there were a
> lot of labels that did fold in the beginning of the 21st
> century. But why didn't they at least play some dance music
> that was still hitting it big? There were still some new
> dance hits over the last few years. Even if they had to
> rotate some songs, that were a few years old, that would
> have been okay. A lot of times people actually LIKE the old
> House/Dance because it was so good.
> At least their format would be more diverse than it is now.
>
> They shouldn't be afraid to rotate some of the old
> House/Dance (freestyle, techno, etc.), I think that is what
> will bring the audience back. If they don't know, throwback
> is very, very in. Come on b96, don't be afraid to mix it
> up!!!!!!!!!
> >

- - - - snip - - - -

1. Isn't Todd Cavanah the VP of programming for the CBS Radio CHR stations? So...he must know what he's doing. He was also the music director during the 'house'/dance music days of the B. But then again, Eric Bradley took over when Todd became PD...and they were still dancing then, right? So the station...evolved. Maybe it's time to evolve again.

2. That's kind of a big leap from Tim to the VP/GM to think they're part of a plan to 'clean house'. I don't think Tim "Spinnin" Schommer was part of any 'house-cleaning' move. C'mon, he's the "freestyle king"! His contract was up in October (I believe) - He was kept on until the end of the year. My observation is that they just chose not to renew his contract. After about 15 years on the station, he was probably an expensive part-timer, ya' think? (Since they took him off nights and instituted that 'holla & bling' thing that's on there now.) My guess is that it was more 'budget-oriented'. Tim's a great guy - he'll land on the ground running - if he hasn't already. The VP/GM guy...I know nothing about. Call me Sgt. Schultz on that one.

3. The best mixers are pretty much long gone from B96. The last time I attempted to listen to the B's mixes, it didn't last very long. And I LOVE mix-shows and mixes - as long as they're GOOD. I don't know who's in charge of the mixers - but they need a little help. (Okay, I have an idea who is, but you really don't want me to start on that.) Brian's mixes were good. The guy can play anything...but then again, he's Brian Middleton. I believe he was the FIRST ever mixer on B96...and he kept up with everything through all the changing times.

Just my opinion. 2.5 cents worth.

*relinquishing the soap box to the next speaker...<P ID="signature">______________
*curmudgeon in training*</P>
 
> - - - snip - - - -
> > >
> > > It is a mess there and they don't know how to fix it
> > > apparently or even play the hottest new hits in their
> hits
> > n
> > > hip-hop format. Time to clean house there.
> > >
> > >I think they are doing so, slowly but surely. They got
> rid
> > of Tim Spinnin Schommer and now the VP/GM. Unless Todd
> and
> > Erik do something groundbreaking to get the ratings back
> up
> > again, they need to be shaking in their boots. Besides, I
>
> > think Cavanah has been there too long anyway. I think the
>
> > changes he has made over the last eight years have not
> been
> > good ones. The station eliminated Brian Middleton's mixes
>
> > (he was one of the best ones at B96), they got rid of the
> > sunday night street flava, they kept Eddie and Jobo (I
> like
> > them, but there time has loooooong passed in the industry)
>
> > and they stopped listening to their audience.
> > You know I realize that Hip-Hop was supposed to be the
> big
> > thing over the last six years or so, but I think B96 went
> > overboard with it. The reason why they were so popular
> over
> > the years was because they played DIFFERENT hits mixed
> > together from ALL GENRES of music. You heard R&B,
> Hip-Hop,
> > House/Dance, Pop and Freestyle (maybe in today's climate
> > Reggaeton). Why don't they do this anymore, this is what
> > made them great in the first place. They kept using the
> > excuse that dance music product dried up, which there were
> a
> > lot of labels that did fold in the beginning of the 21st
> > century. But why didn't they at least play some dance
> music
> > that was still hitting it big? There were still some new
> > dance hits over the last few years. Even if they had to
> > rotate some songs, that were a few years old, that would
> > have been okay. A lot of times people actually LIKE the
> old
> > House/Dance because it was so good.
> > At least their format would be more diverse than it is
> now.
> >
> > They shouldn't be afraid to rotate some of the old
> > House/Dance (freestyle, techno, etc.), I think that is
> what
> > will bring the audience back. If they don't know,
> throwback
> > is very, very in. Come on b96, don't be afraid to mix it
> > up!!!!!!!!!
> > >
>
> - - - - snip - - - -
>
> 1. Isn't Todd Cavanah the VP of programming for the CBS
> Radio CHR stations? So...he must know what he's doing. He
> was also the music director during the 'house'/dance music
> days of the B. But then again, Eric Bradley took over when
> Todd became PD...and they were still dancing then, right? So
> the station...evolved. Maybe it's time to evolve again.
>
Yes, Todd is VP of Programming for them, BUT that doesn't mean anything. There are a lot of individuals in high positions that don't need to be there. All I am saying is, Todd has been at the B for way too long. Normally when that happens in any position, people tend to get comfortable and not try anything new anymore. Besides, if Todd knew what he was doing, the station wouldn't be sinking in the ratings.

> 2. That's kind of a big leap from Tim to the VP/GM to think
> they're part of a plan to 'clean house'. I don't think Tim
> "Spinnin" Schommer was part of any 'house-cleaning' move.
> C'mon, he's the "freestyle king"! His contract was up in
> October (I believe) - He was kept on until the end of the
> year. My observation is that they just chose not to renew
> his contract. After about 15 years on the station, he was
> probably an expensive part-timer, ya' think? (Since they
> took him off nights and instituted that 'holla & bling'
> thing that's on there now.) My guess is that it was more
> 'budget-oriented'. Tim's a great guy - he'll land on the
> ground running - if he hasn't already. The VP/GM guy...I
> know nothing about. Call me Sgt. Schultz on that one.

Well, maybe if they would have kept him on the mixes on the weekends, it would have justified his salary. Just my observation. Also, that Stylez and Roman are terrible. They seem to act like something they are really not.

> 3. The best mixers are pretty much long gone from B96. The
> last time I attempted to listen to the B's mixes, it didn't
> last very long. And I LOVE mix-shows and mixes - as long as
> they're GOOD. I don't know who's in charge of the mixers -
> but they need a little help. (Okay, I have an idea who is,
> but you really don't want me to start on that.) Brian's
> mixes were good. The guy can play anything...but then again,
> he's Brian Middleton. I believe he was the FIRST ever mixer
> on B96...and he kept up with everything through all the
> changing times.
>
The mix-show director at B96 is Julian "Jumpin" Perez. Someone else who needs to retire from the game. To me, he has just completely sold-out by playing all of this Hip-Hop. Why does he think he's Funkmaster Flex now? It is like he just turned his back on House Music.
I think if the station gets a new PD and MD, one of the things they need to do is another big mixer search like they did back in 1993. There is so much DJ talent in Chicago, there isn't any reason why there shouldn't be any good mixes. I think they need to eliminate some of the Hip-Hop mixes, I think there are too many of them. They also need to get rid of those mixes from 10AM to 2PM. Because if all you are going to do is mix the same stuff you put into rotation anyway, you may as well just play it outright.
Also the House Mixes that are played on B96 are too "tech-style." What about bringing in DJ's who play some of the soulful stuff. They should bring back Maurice Joshua, I thought he was great.

> Just my opinion. 2.5 cents worth.
>
> *relinquishing the soap box to the next speaker...
>
 
> >
> Yes, Todd is VP of Programming for them, BUT that doesn't
> mean anything. There are a lot of individuals in high
> positions that don't need to be there. All I am saying is,
> Todd has been at the B for way too long. Normally when that
> happens in any position, people tend to get comfortable and
> not try anything new anymore. Besides, if Todd knew what he
> was doing, the station wouldn't be sinking in the ratings.

That certainly is not true. Markets fragment when more than one signal goes after the same listener group. A good part of B's trouble is WVIV, and there is nothing they can do about that. So they just have to adjust to a new reality where the shares are lower.

Similarly, KPWR, one of the best hip hop stations in the US, got a piece taken away by KXOL, the LA reggaetón station. Again, they can not address this problem without offending the rest of their core. New reality.
 
> > >
> > Yes, Todd is VP of Programming for them, BUT that doesn't
> > mean anything. There are a lot of individuals in high
> > positions that don't need to be there. All I am saying
> is,
> > Todd has been at the B for way too long. Normally when
> that
> > happens in any position, people tend to get comfortable
> and
> > not try anything new anymore. Besides, if Todd knew what
> he
> > was doing, the station wouldn't be sinking in the ratings.
>
>
> That certainly is not true. Markets fragment when more than
> one signal goes after the same listener group. A good part
> of B's trouble is WVIV, and there is nothing they can do
> about that. So they just have to adjust to a new reality
> where the shares are lower.
>
Well if B96 is supposedly losing all of these ratings to WVIV, then why aren't they (WVIV) higher in the ratings than they currently are? Besides, WVIV doesn't even have all that great of a signal. I am not saying that SOME of the listeners have gone to that station, but to say that is the sole reason for B96's demise, I don't buy it. I think it is for all of the reasons I have named. Also, what you are forgetting is B96's audience ISN'T solely hispanic. It is white, black, etc. Look at WGCI, they have direct competition from Power 92. I am sure a lot of listeners have made the switch to Power, but GCI's listener base hasn't suffered that much. They are STILL number one and they are getting competition from not only another Urban (Power 92), but from crossover stations like Kiss and B96.
I still stand by my original post that Todd Cavanah has been there for too long. It is time for some new blood. Also, whether you want to admit it or not, people get positions every day that they do not need to have. It is called "knowing the right people."

> Similarly, KPWR, one of the best hip hop stations in the US,
> got a piece taken away by KXOL, the LA reggaetón station.
> Again, they can not address this problem without offending
> the rest of their core. New reality.
>
Another thing, if you claim the reggaeton station is taking away all of these ratings from B96, then why don't they add more reggaeton? BECAUSE again, that isn't the sole reason why B96 is losing listeners. I think the audience is alienated because there is too much hip-hop being played and the trend is starting to turn again.
 
> > > >
> > > Yes, Todd is VP of Programming for them, BUT that
> doesn't
> > > mean anything. There are a lot of individuals in high
> > > positions that don't need to be there. All I am saying
> > is,
> > > Todd has been at the B for way too long. Normally when
> > that
> > > happens in any position, people tend to get comfortable
> > and
> > > not try anything new anymore. Besides, if Todd knew
> what
> > he
> > > was doing, the station wouldn't be sinking in the
> ratings.
> >
> >
> > That certainly is not true. Markets fragment when more
> than
> > one signal goes after the same listener group. A good part
>
> > of B's trouble is WVIV, and there is nothing they can do
> > about that. So they just have to adjust to a new reality
> > where the shares are lower.
> >
> Well if B96 is supposedly losing all of these ratings to
> WVIV, then why aren't they (WVIV) higher in the ratings than
> they currently are? Besides, WVIV doesn't even have all
> that great of a signal. I am not saying that SOME of the
> listeners have gone to that station, but to say that is the
> sole reason for B96's demise, I don't buy it. I think it is
> for all of the reasons I have named. Also, what you are
> forgetting is B96's audience ISN'T solely hispanic. It is
> white, black, etc. Look at WGCI, they have direct
> competition from Power 92. I am sure a lot of listeners
> have made the switch to Power, but GCI's listener base
> hasn't suffered that much. They are STILL number one and
> they are getting competition from not only another Urban
> (Power 92), but from crossover stations like Kiss and B96.
> I still stand by my original post that Todd Cavanah has been
> there for too long. It is time for some new blood. Also,
> whether you want to admit it or not, people get positions
> every day that they do not need to have. It is called
> "knowing the right people."
>
> > Similarly, KPWR, one of the best hip hop stations in the
> US,
> > got a piece taken away by KXOL, the LA reggaetón station.
> > Again, they can not address this problem without offending
>
> > the rest of their core. New reality.
> >
> Another thing, if you claim the reggaeton station is taking
> away all of these ratings from B96, then why don't they add
> more reggaeton? BECAUSE again, that isn't the sole reason
> why B96 is losing listeners. I think the audience is
> alienated because there is too much hip-hop being played and
> the trend is starting to turn again.
>

The new B96 mixers are doing a great job and have a huge following in the streets and the club scene. Mostly all of the House DJ's at the B has are in the major clubs in Chicago.

Mixin Marc- Crobar, Martini Ranch, Zero Gravity
Josh the Funky 1 - Spy Bar, International DJ
Louie Loop - Sound Bar, Moda, Plush, Enclave, Club O, Buzz
Billy The Kid - Spy Bar, Level, Zero Gravity
DJ Spin - Vision, Sound Bar

The house guys have a great following and are doing a great job. The kids today love the tech electro house sound. Let's not forget music evolves.
 
> >
> Well if B96 is supposedly losing all of these ratings to
> WVIV, then why aren't they (WVIV) higher in the ratings than
> they currently are?

WVIV took a poercentage of the Hispanic quarter hours from B-96. When WVIV went Reggaetón from pop, it entered direct competiton with WBBM-FM.

Since WVIV is a Spanish station, it only took, first, Hispanics, and then, those who are Spanish speaking. But it was enough to knock over a point off B-96.

> Besides, WVIV doesn't even have all
> that great of a signal.

It covers most of the Hispanic population with its two signals, and it did take a large chunk off B-96. The issue there is not to beat B-96 but to be a reggaetón station for bilingual Hispanics, which is the station target.

> I am not saying that SOME of the
> listeners have gone to that station, but to say that is the
> sole reason for B96's demise, I don't buy it.

"Demise" means something has gone away. Since Kalle launched, that signal has increased by _more_ than what B-96 has lost. However, the fact that there is a very strong sharing relationship between the two by Hispanics shows how large a correlation there is. The loss by B-96 is almost 100% due to Kalle.

> I think it is
> for all of the reasons I have named. Also, what you are
> forgetting is B96's audience ISN'T solely hispanic. It is
> white, black, etc.

When you run the numbers by ethnicity, B-96's losses are almost entirely in Hispanics.
> >
> Another thing, if you claim the reggaeton station is taking
> away all of these ratings from B96, then why don't they add
> more reggaeton?

For the same reason Power in LA does not. Reggaetón is in _Spanish_ and would drive away the Black and non-Hispanic white listeners like mad. And gain them nothing.

> BECAUSE again, that isn't the sole reason
> why B96 is losing listeners.

No, it is about 90% of it.

> I think the audience is
> alienated because there is too much hip-hop being played and
> the trend is starting to turn again.

It's because a large percentage of Hispanics left. B-96 has lost about a point since Kalle came on, but that was only about 25% of its listening. The rest is still there. Including lots of Hispanics who don't like reggaetón and do like hip-hop.
>
 
> > > > >
> > > > Yes, Todd is VP of Programming for them, BUT that
> > doesn't
> > > > mean anything. There are a lot of individuals in high
>
> > > > positions that don't need to be there. All I am
> saying
> > > is,
> > > > Todd has been at the B for way too long. Normally
> when
> > > that
> > > > happens in any position, people tend to get
> comfortable
> > > and
> > > > not try anything new anymore. Besides, if Todd knew
> > what
> > > he
> > > > was doing, the station wouldn't be sinking in the
> > ratings.
> > >
> > >
> > > That certainly is not true. Markets fragment when more
> > than
> > > one signal goes after the same listener group. A good
> part
> >
> > > of B's trouble is WVIV, and there is nothing they can do
>
> > > about that. So they just have to adjust to a new reality
>
> > > where the shares are lower.
> > >
> > Well if B96 is supposedly losing all of these ratings to
> > WVIV, then why aren't they (WVIV) higher in the ratings
> than
> > they currently are? Besides, WVIV doesn't even have all
> > that great of a signal. I am not saying that SOME of the
> > listeners have gone to that station, but to say that is
> the
> > sole reason for B96's demise, I don't buy it. I think it
> is
> > for all of the reasons I have named. Also, what you are
> > forgetting is B96's audience ISN'T solely hispanic. It is
>
> > white, black, etc. Look at WGCI, they have direct
> > competition from Power 92. I am sure a lot of listeners
> > have made the switch to Power, but GCI's listener base
> > hasn't suffered that much. They are STILL number one and
> > they are getting competition from not only another Urban
> > (Power 92), but from crossover stations like Kiss and B96.
>
> > I still stand by my original post that Todd Cavanah has
> been
> > there for too long. It is time for some new blood. Also,
>
> > whether you want to admit it or not, people get positions
> > every day that they do not need to have. It is called
> > "knowing the right people."
> >
> > > Similarly, KPWR, one of the best hip hop stations in the
>
> > US,
> > > got a piece taken away by KXOL, the LA reggaetón
> station.
> > > Again, they can not address this problem without
> offending
> >
> > > the rest of their core. New reality.
> > >
> > Another thing, if you claim the reggaeton station is
> taking
> > away all of these ratings from B96, then why don't they
> add
> > more reggaeton? BECAUSE again, that isn't the sole reason
>
> > why B96 is losing listeners. I think the audience is
> > alienated because there is too much hip-hop being played
> and
> > the trend is starting to turn again.
> >
>
> The new B96 mixers are doing a great job and have a huge
> following in the streets and the club scene. Mostly all of
> the House DJ's at the B has are in the major clubs in
> Chicago.
>
> Mixin Marc- Crobar, Martini Ranch, Zero Gravity
> Josh the Funky 1 - Spy Bar, International DJ
> Louie Loop - Sound Bar, Moda, Plush, Enclave, Club O, Buzz
> Billy The Kid - Spy Bar, Level, Zero Gravity
> DJ Spin - Vision, Sound Bar
>
> The house guys have a great following and are doing a great
> job. The kids today love the tech electro house sound. Let's
> not forget music evolves.
>
You are right, music does evolve, but it is supposed to get better not worse. Besides, without Old School House, there wouldn't be any New School House. Some of the music that they play doesn't have any soul. There are still soulful House tracks being released. B96 needs to remember not everyone likes the same type of House Music. I do like some of the tech-house, but it needs some actual rhythm. There is nothing wrong with progression as long as it is QUALITY!!!!
 
> > >
> > Well if B96 is supposedly losing all of these ratings to
> > WVIV, then why aren't they (WVIV) higher in the ratings
> than
> > they currently are?
>
> WVIV took a poercentage of the Hispanic quarter hours from
> B-96. When WVIV went Reggaetón from pop, it entered direct
> competiton with WBBM-FM.
>
> Since WVIV is a Spanish station, it only took, first,
> Hispanics, and then, those who are Spanish speaking. But it
> was enough to knock over a point off B-96.
>
> > Besides, WVIV doesn't even have all
> > that great of a signal.
>
> It covers most of the Hispanic population with its two
> signals, and it did take a large chunk off B-96. The issue
> there is not to beat B-96 but to be a reggaetón station for
> bilingual Hispanics, which is the station target.
>
> > I am not saying that SOME of the
> > listeners have gone to that station, but to say that is
> the
> > sole reason for B96's demise, I don't buy it.
>
> "Demise" means something has gone away. Since Kalle
> launched, that signal has increased by _more_ than what B-96
> has lost. However, the fact that there is a very strong
> sharing relationship between the two by Hispanics shows how
> large a correlation there is. The loss by B-96 is almost
> 100% due to Kalle.
>
> > I think it is
> > for all of the reasons I have named. Also, what you are
> > forgetting is B96's audience ISN'T solely hispanic. It is
>
> > white, black, etc.
>
> When you run the numbers by ethnicity, B-96's losses are
> almost entirely in Hispanics.
> > >
> > Another thing, if you claim the reggaeton station is
> taking
> > away all of these ratings from B96, then why don't they
> add
> > more reggaeton?
>
> For the same reason Power in LA does not. Reggaetón is in
> _Spanish_ and would drive away the Black and non-Hispanic
> white listeners like mad. And gain them nothing.
>
> > BECAUSE again, that isn't the sole reason
> > why B96 is losing listeners.
>
> No, it is about 90% of it.
>I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ALL THAT.

> > I think the audience is
> > alienated because there is too much hip-hop being played
> and
> > the trend is starting to turn again.
>
> It's because a large percentage of Hispanics left. B-96 has
> lost about a point since Kalle came on, but that was only
> about 25% of its listening. The rest is still there.
> Including lots of Hispanics who don't like reggaetón and do
> like hip-hop.
> >
> OKAY DAVID, IF SOME OF THE LISTENERS ARE STILL AT B96 THEN WHY ARE THEY NUMBER ELEVEN IN THE RATINGS? DON'T SAY IT IS BECAUSE OF WVIV, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, WVIV'S NUMBERS WOULD BE A LOT HIGHER.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WGCI'S NUMBERS ARE STILL HIGH AND THEY HAVE DIRECT COMPETITION, WHY AREN'T THEY LOSING NUMBERS?
B96 IS LOSING ITS NUMBERS BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF FACTORS, NOT JUST ONE RADIO STATION.
 
> > >
> > OKAY DAVID,

Stop screaming. It´s RUDE.

> IF SOME OF THE LISTENERS ARE STILL AT B96 THEN
> WHY ARE THEY NUMBER ELEVEN IN THE RATINGS?

They are 11th because they lost 25% of their AQH listening, or share. That, in Chicago, means a significan loss in rank

Look at the facts. In 2004, pre-Kalle, all 4 books had within 0.1 shares of each other. Yet in rank, the station was 5th, 6th, 8th and 8th from beginning to end of the year. So B-96 did not loose any listeners all year long, yet lost rank, because other stations grew and passed them by.

Then, by Summer, Kalle had its effect. Kalle took a point off of B-96, dropping it from 8th to 11th.

Kalle, as Viva, and a pop station, had had an average of below a point in 2004. Now it is double that, and moved from 29th to 20th.

> DON'T SAY IT IS
> BECAUSE OF WVIV, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, WVIV'S NUMBERS WOULD
> BE A LOT HIGHER.

One lost a point, the other gained it. One fell by 25%, the other doubled. I ran the figures through a correlation template, and the match is 95%.

> LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WGCI'S NUMBERS ARE STILL HIGH AND THEY
> HAVE DIRECT COMPETITION, WHY AREN'T THEY LOSING NUMBERS?

Totally different scenario. B-96 can not protect the Hispanic bilingual listener. Kalle has cultureally stronger bonds with this group, and B-96 can do absolutely nothing to compete, as they would lose the remaining 75% of their audience if they did.

> B96 IS LOSING ITS NUMBERS BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF FACTORS,
> NOT JUST ONE RADIO STATION.

If you are discussing Arbitron, you can only have 100 shares, If someoen goes up, sombody has to go down. And in this case, there is almost total correlation with the WBBM drop and the WVIV/VIX increase. Obviously, I know mor ethan I can tell you, but just on Arbitron evidence, the only reason for WBBM losing share is Kalle.
 
> > > >
> > > OKAY DAVID,
>
> Stop screaming. It´s RUDE.

>Nobody was screaming at you David, I only put the words in caps so you could see my response. It isn't that big of a deal.

> > IF SOME OF THE LISTENERS ARE STILL AT B96 THEN
> > WHY ARE THEY NUMBER ELEVEN IN THE RATINGS?
>
> They are 11th because they lost 25% of their AQH listening,
> or share. That, in Chicago, means a significan loss in rank

>Okay, that may be true, but the point you are missing is B96 has been losing listeners BEFORE this station even came on the air. You CANNOT attribute that to one station. It is from them alienating their listeners over the years. True enough, you have to keep up with trends, but if the trends are no longer working you have to try something different. That's the bottom line.

> Look at the facts. In 2004, pre-Kalle, all 4 books had
> within 0.1 shares of each other. Yet in rank, the station
> was 5th, 6th, 8th and 8th from beginning to end of the year.
> So B-96 did not loose any listeners all year long, yet lost
> rank, because other stations grew and passed them by.

>I'll be honest with you, that scenario doesn't make sense to me. How could one NOT lose rank without losing ratings?


> Then, by Summer, Kalle had its effect. Kalle took a point
> off of B-96, dropping it from 8th to 11th.
>
> Kalle, as Viva, and a pop station, had had an average of
> below a point in 2004. Now it is double that, and moved from
> 29th to 20th.
>
> > DON'T SAY IT IS
> > BECAUSE OF WVIV, IF THAT WAS THE CASE, WVIV'S NUMBERS
> WOULD
> > BE A LOT HIGHER.
>
> One lost a point, the other gained it. One fell by 25%, the
> other doubled. I ran the figures through a correlation
> template, and the match is 95%.
>
> > LIKE I SAID BEFORE, WGCI'S NUMBERS ARE STILL HIGH AND THEY
>
> > HAVE DIRECT COMPETITION, WHY AREN'T THEY LOSING NUMBERS?
>
> Totally different scenario. B-96 can not protect the
> Hispanic bilingual listener. Kalle has cultureally stronger
> bonds with this group, and B-96 can do absolutely nothing to
> compete, as they would lose the remaining 75% of their
> audience if they did.

> Well, if you say they (B96) is competing for SOME of the same listeners, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to compete. To me, the scenarios aren't that different, you just have to come up with a different strategy to execute the idea. It is really not that much different with a heritage Urban that has been around for years and someone new comes along with a different strategy and bites away from the heritage station. When that happens you have to find a way to compete. Besides, there are stations that have Reggaeton and Hip-Hop formats combined and they seem to work. I am not saying that B96 should go this direction, but obviously it has been working in other markets. Maybe B96 should consider having a Reggaeton show on certain nights of the week. Besides, I don't see how hispanics are that much different of an audience. If they like what they hear, they will listen, even if they speak little or no english.

> > B96 IS LOSING ITS NUMBERS BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF FACTORS,
> > NOT JUST ONE RADIO STATION.

>David, if I were a programmer of B96, I wouldn't SOLELY be looking at WVIV, that would just be ridiculous. I would look at every station biting at my numbers: WGCI, WKSC, WPWX, etc. It is called smart programming. What is the audience I am losing getting from these other stations that I either am not providing enough of or not providing it at all. Is my station out in the streets enough at the right events, do I possibly need to tweak the amount of commericals and music, are even my voice drops STRONG enough for this station, etc. This is what I am meaning by "number of factors." You don't just look at one station if that isn't the only one taking away your numbers.

> If you are discussing Arbitron, you can only have 100
> shares, If someoen goes up, sombody has to go down. And in
> this case, there is almost total correlation with the WBBM
> drop and the WVIV/VIX increase. Obviously, I know mor ethan
> I can tell you, but just on Arbitron evidence, the only
> reason for WBBM losing share is Kalle.
>
Also because they need to make some programming changes, bottom line.
It looks like we aren't going to see eye to eye on this issue, so let's just agree to disagree.
 
David,

Where are your sources on all this data? Numbers are good and I agree with what you are saying to a point, but couldn't it also be that B 96 is just a stale sounding wreck of a station that is turning listeners away?

I am sure La Ley lost some listeners to WVIV too.

B



> > >
> > Well if B96 is supposedly losing all of these ratings to
> > WVIV, then why aren't they (WVIV) higher in the ratings
> than
> > they currently are?
>
> WVIV took a poercentage of the Hispanic quarter hours from
> B-96. When WVIV went Reggaetón from pop, it entered direct
> competiton with WBBM-FM.
>
> Since WVIV is a Spanish station, it only took, first,
> Hispanics, and then, those who are Spanish speaking. But it
> was enough to knock over a point off B-96.
>
> > Besides, WVIV doesn't even have all
> > that great of a signal.
>
> It covers most of the Hispanic population with its two
> signals, and it did take a large chunk off B-96. The issue
> there is not to beat B-96 but to be a reggaetón station for
> bilingual Hispanics, which is the station target.
>
> > I am not saying that SOME of the
> > listeners have gone to that station, but to say that is
> the
> > sole reason for B96's demise, I don't buy it.
>
> "Demise" means something has gone away. Since Kalle
> launched, that signal has increased by _more_ than what B-96
> has lost. However, the fact that there is a very strong
> sharing relationship between the two by Hispanics shows how
> large a correlation there is. The loss by B-96 is almost
> 100% due to Kalle.
>
> > I think it is
> > for all of the reasons I have named. Also, what you are
> > forgetting is B96's audience ISN'T solely hispanic. It is
>
> > white, black, etc.
>
> When you run the numbers by ethnicity, B-96's losses are
> almost entirely in Hispanics.
> > >
> > Another thing, if you claim the reggaeton station is
> taking
> > away all of these ratings from B96, then why don't they
> add
> > more reggaeton?
>
> For the same reason Power in LA does not. Reggaetón is in
> _Spanish_ and would drive away the Black and non-Hispanic
> white listeners like mad. And gain them nothing.
>
> > BECAUSE again, that isn't the sole reason
> > why B96 is losing listeners.
>
> No, it is about 90% of it.
>
> > I think the audience is
> > alienated because there is too much hip-hop being played
> and
> > the trend is starting to turn again.
>
> It's because a large percentage of Hispanics left. B-96 has
> lost about a point since Kalle came on, but that was only
> about 25% of its listening. The rest is still there.
> Including lots of Hispanics who don't like reggaetón and do
> like hip-hop.
> >
>
 
> David,
>
> Where are your sources on all this data? Numbers are good
> and I agree with what you are saying to a point, but
> couldn't it also be that B 96 is just a stale sounding wreck
> of a station that is turning listeners away?
>
> I am sure La Ley lost some listeners to WVIV too.

The regional Mexican stations are a totally different lifestyle than reggaetón. regional listenrs are totally Spanish dominant, while 95% of reggaetón listeners consider that they are bilingual and speak Spanglish with friends.

My sources are the listners themselves, Arbitron audience sharing data from Maximizer, PD advantage tables on audience movement ("what did my listeners listen to 6 mongths ago") and an SPSS run to find correlation of the B 96 decerase and any other movements in the market.

Whatever may or may not apply to B 96 programming, they had about the most stable SBR in America (5 books wthin a 0.1 range) I have ever seen... until WVIV/VIX came on with reggaetón and simply peeled off the bilingual Hispanics.

In LA, Power 106, which is a great station, has also been very stable despite all kinds of fragmenting plays until XKOL came on with reggaetón and cost them about a share point, too. The same effect on rhythmic CHRs has been seen in San Francisco with Wild, in Las Vegas, in Houston, Fresno and other places decent reggaeton stations have ocme on in markets with big hispanic populations.
 
Pumpin and David;

I think both of you bring good ideas to the table.

David, the only thing I disagree with you is that WVIV is single handedly killing B 96. In fact with the fall book WVIV lost listeners along with B 96!!!!

You are only looking at one segment of the problem and not the entire problem like a radio exec would. Problem is radio stations sometimes ignore the listener's perspective. I think that is the problem lately with radio. People in suits looking at data and numbers (quantitative) instead of looking to find out why their former loyal listeners are not listening as much or at all (qualitative) You need both to be successful and GCI has masterfully done that.

I think you forget that maybe about 2-4 years ago B 96 was the outright #1 station overall in Chicago for one quarter even beating WGCI. It shocked the entire city! Problem is the station has been dropping ever since. That fall overall you are right may have had a little to do with WVIV but it is not the sole entire reason as the fall ratings obviously show.

If B 96 is looking at the numbers and thinking exactly what you are thinking David and that nothing else is the problem, the ship I feel will sink faster than it is already. It is called bad business. If the problem was that easy, I say David you apply for a job there now cause they will soon need the help.

Pumpin, you and I wholeheartedly agree. I feel things got complacent there. The format and presentation they have needs a facelift not just a simple monikor change. I know Tim Spinnin Schommer leaving is a separate issue, but it sure did not help matters there. He had a following and I am sure the following that heard him on Sundays don't listen to the station as much anymore.

I also think that getting to #1 may have hurt more than help at B 96. That was when they increased the hip-hop possibly thinking more GCI listeners would become loyal to them and they could stay #1. In my opinion that was mistake #1 as B 96 should have just continued to be their own station and do what was working. GCI took the challenge and added more hip-hop, and B 96 has been in a free fall ever since while GCI reclaimed #1.

I saw a similar situation growing up in Milwaukee with Hot 102 which was an extremely popular Top 40/dance friendly station in the late 80s and 90s. They were near or at the top of the ratings, and take the carpet from under its listeners by changing from CHR/Rhythm to regular CHR in a span of an overnight. The core audience felt alienated as I did, ratings dropped, and there was one last ditch to go back to their heritage late 80s/early 90s CHR/Dance friendly Rhythm era but it was too late.

Now for over 10 years it is an alternative station. Some will say the up and coming V 100 at the time took a chunk of listeners which is true to a point but Hot 102 did their own damage and made bad decisions.

If B 96 does not figure out what all the problems are instead of just one, they will soon have to make that desperational choice.

Feel free to comment....
 
>
> >Nobody was screaming at you David, I only put the words in
> caps so you could see my response. It isn't that big of a
> deal.

On the internet, all-caps means screaming. It is also very hard to read.
>
> >Okay, that may be true, but the point you are missing is
> B96 has been losing listeners BEFORE this station even came
> on the air.

No, it was not. Until Kalle, which was a 80 day transition, by the way, not a format flip, B-96 had 5 books with only a 0.1 variance. that is the most stable CHR I have ever seen, I think. Usually CHRs wobble as much as 0.6 up and down from book to book, yet B 96 was as flat as the Iowa landscape.

> You CANNOT attribute that to one station. It
> is from them alienating their listeners over the years.
> True enough, you have to keep up with trends, but if the
> trends are no longer working you have to try something
> different. That's the bottom line.

The Bilingual Hispanics jumped because they were what in research is called "settlers" meaning they settled for WBBM FM as the best possible station for lack of what they really wnated. Kalle arrived, and, boom, they left or reduced thier usage.

Arbitron has a ton of addtional features that show audience shareing, source and destination, where th elisteners were 6 months prior, etc. Also, stations do their own research for programming which is proprietary, but which I can say shows that about 99% of Kalle's growht came form WBBM FM.
> >
> > Totally different scenario. B-96 can not protect the
> > Hispanic bilingual listener. Kalle has cultureally
> stronger
> > bonds with this group, and B-96 can do absolutely nothing
> to
> > compete, as they would lose the remaining 75% of their
> > audience if they did.
>
> > Well, if you say they (B96) is competing for SOME of the
> same listeners, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to
> compete.

To compete, they would have to play more Spanish langauge music, and speak Spanglish. That would cause the to lose the 750,000 listeners they have who are not Hispanic.

> To me, the scenarios aren't that different, you
> just have to come up with a different strategy to execute
> the idea. It is really not that much different with a
> heritage Urban that has been around for years and someone
> new comes along with a different strategy and bites away
> from the heritage station.

Urbans are nearly always 85% Bloack and up. So there is no issue of pleasing non-African Americans. If they come or go, it is a bonus, but the stations look almost entirely for African Americans.

B-96 was a coalition stations, that was, in 2004, 25% Black, 40% Hispanic and 35% Other (non Hispanic white). A station came thaat better served some of hte Hispanics, and it took audience that can not be retrieved by B-96 without offending or rejecting the other listeners, including the English dominant Hispanics.

> When that happens you have to
> find a way to compete. Besides, there are stations that
> have Reggaeton and Hip-Hop formats combined and they seem to
> work.

Almost all Hispanic reggaetón stations play some Hip hop and a bit of Spanish pop. But they have Spanglish presentations. I do not know of any gneral market stations that play any Spanish reggaeton as anything other than an occasional novelty item.

> I am not saying that B96 should go this direction,
> but obviously it has been working in other markets.

No, actually, it hasnn't. Any general market station that has briefly added spansih reggaetón has been whupped in its call out research and they have stopped instantly.

> Maybe
> B96 should consider having a Reggaeton show on certain
> nights of the week.

Yeah, let's put on a token show for the listeners who already left that will smack of panedring, and then piss off the 750,000 non-Hispanic listeners who are still there. Horrible idea, man.

> Besides, I don't see how hispanics are
> that much different of an audience. If they like what they
> hear, they will listen, even if they speak little or no
> english.

They like reggaetón better. It was a choice they did not have before, and now they do. That is fragmentation. the fact is that the core reggaeton listener would much rather have a stations that is mor culturally in tue with them, speaking Spanglish and not English and identifying with the Latino 100%.
>
> > > B96 IS LOSING ITS NUMBERS BECAUSE OF A NUMBER OF
> FACTORS,
> > > NOT JUST ONE RADIO STATION.
>
> >David, if I were a programmer of B96, I wouldn't SOLELY be
> looking at WVIV, that would just be ridiculous.

I would not be either, as there is no way to get those listenrs back.

> I would
> look at every station biting at my numbers: WGCI, WKSC,
> WPWX, etc.

B-96 has never had more than 25% Black numbers, and at present they are at the high end. If thy go more that way, they lose non-Hispanic whites. All they can do is try to be consistent and hold the course and offer a product that, simply, may not appeal to as many people today as before. There is not much room for a CHR to mover around in in a competitive market.

> It is called smart programming. What is the
> audience I am losing getting from these other stations that
> I either am not providing enough of or not providing it at
> all. Is my station out in the streets enough at the right
> events, do I possibly need to tweak the amount of
> commericals and music, are even my voice drops STRONG enough
> for this station, etc. This is what I am meaning by "number
> of factors." You don't just look at one station if that
> isn't the only one taking away your numbers.

I am sure they do as much research as Kalle and GCI do... and thy know what they can and can-t do without breaking the station totally. Stations spend, sometimes, hundreds of thousands a year in internal, propietary research. The know what is going on... they may not have viable options.

> ethan
> > I can tell you, but just on Arbitron evidence, the only
> > reason for WBBM losing share is Kalle.
> >
> Also because they need to make some programming changes,
> bottom line.
> It looks like we aren't going to see eye to eye on this
> issue, so let's just agree to disagree.

Unfortunately for your point, Arbitrond data totally disagrees, and listener research done with real ex-BBM listeners does, too.
>
 
> Pumpin and David;
>
> I think both of you bring good ideas to the table.
>
> David, the only thing I disagree with you is that WVIV is
> single handedly killing B 96. In fact with the fall book
> WVIV lost listeners along with B 96!!!!

Both changes are within the range of Arbitron's margin of error, and statistically insignificant. In cume, B-96 was totally flat book to book, and Kalle was actually up by nearly 10%. Cume increases are often accompanied by TSL decreases, so that is a secondary explanation.

But for all practical purposes, neither station move at all in Fall compared with Summer. Often we expect stations with lots of teens and 18-24 to go down after summer, but that really did not happen.
>
> You are only looking at one segment of the problem and not
> the entire problem like a radio exec would. Problem is radio
> stations sometimes ignore the listener's perspective. I
> think that is the problem lately with radio. People in suits
> looking at data and numbers (quantitative) instead of
> looking to find out why their former loyal listeners are not
> listening as much or at all (qualitative) You need both to
> be successful and GCI has masterfully done that.

This has been examined. The Kalle listener comes to Calle mostly from WBBM and secondarily fromt he deceased Spanish pop stations like Onda, Superestrella and Viva. Over a share point worth came from B-96 and that is about a quarter million.

Such listeners either leave B 96 (the minority) or listen to it less and added Kalle to the list of stations they use. The average 18-34 diarykeeper has 4 stations in the diary. So what happened is that Kalle took quarter hours from B 96, taking share. B-96's cume is not about 110,000 below the historic range, so that has perfect correlation with this highly researched statement.

Of course, the easiest thing is to do a sample of Kalle listeners and ask what they listened to in the past at different intervals.
>
> I think you forget that maybe about 2-4 years ago B 96 was
> the outright #1 station overall in Chicago for one quarter
> even beating WGCI. It shocked the entire city! Problem is
> the station has been dropping ever since.

The 5 books prior to Kalle were as flat as I have ever seen. There was not a 0.1 difference. When you go by rank, you miss the stability of B-96 in the past. Other stations wobble up and down... which explains WBBM being anywhere from 5th to 9th in the same period of time on the same share and cume.

> That fall overall
> you are right may have had a little to do with WVIV but it
> is not the sole entire reason as the fall ratings obviously
> show.

Priour to 2004, which was a very stable year for B 96, many other things may have happened. Note that all staitons are in a lower range than they were 5 years ago or 10 years ago. Competiton and fragmentation have increased.
>
> If B 96 is looking at the numbers and thinking exactly what
> you are thinking David and that nothing else is the
> problem, the ship I feel will sink faster than it is
> already.

They are probably looking at how they can live without the bilingual Hisanics. Can they change thier research and refocus the target to be more assimilated Hispanics, and increase the non-Hispanic white audience. I would bet that they have been working on this, but, like other rthymics like Power in LA, they do not have too many options.

> It is called bad business. If the problem was that
> easy, I say David you apply for a job there now cause they
> will soon need the help.

I don't do general market English stations.
 
B96's solution to ending the "Kalle" threat:

>> The know what is going on... they may not have viable options.

(Refering to B96)

They have options, and viable at that.

One viable option is to take B96 all Reggaetón, or a slight variation of it, and clean WVIV's clock out with a full signal.

Now, that would depend if they could bill the same or higher than they do now, and that does not seem likely. So..... their dropping in ratings, especially their target demos, is more visually shocking than it actually will be in their sales. If the erosion stops, and they can maintain and not knee jerk to the drop, they will be fine in the long run.

Worst thing that can happen is a mainstream dance outlet surfaces and further eats their numbers. <P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
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