BA Receptor Discontinued

[hipporadio]

Hey, welcome back Uncle Hippo. We've missed you around here...

THANK-YOU Chuck! I’ve been enjoying the game from the sidelines... Someone has to keep the bench warm

My Mom and Dad are not missing your fine adult standards station – they listen often online since corporate radio can’t seem to identify a sales market for that format at [of all places] Hilton Head Island. In fact, these smarmy conglomerated critters even manage to avoid the obvious with regards to Motown, the British Invasion, and classic Carolina R&B Beach Music [NO local oldies station there either since 107.9 went sap-AC-70s/disco]. I guess they’re satisfied that recent ratings showed a Savannah HIP-HOP station as #1 – and a MEXICAN-formatted 213-watt daytime AM close behind at #2 : And some wonder what drives the pathetic “HD Radio experiment”, which in reality is “El-toasto”, NADA, and just plain OVER [it was a non-starter to begin with].

Now a rumor that just may make Mr. Walker’s day... Your local Radio Shanty is about to DISCONTINUE the sterling “HD Accurian”... 'Seems even sales of the late-80s C-QUAM AM tuner were more impressive. AM-Stereo anyone? Strike-two – bottom-of-the-ninth – and NOBODY on base [except a few Wall Street hedge funds desperately seeking excuses].

Back to Sangean... They are one of the few remaining consumer-electronics companies that HAVE NOT dismissed the art of making a fine radio! In fairness, the HDR-1 table radio is an OK product [if you blot-out the “HD” logo]. It provides good sound and ANALOG AM and FM reception [but lags it’s less-expensive brother – the EXCEPTIONAL single-speaker WR-2]. So the operative question remains: To “HD” or NOT to “HD”? Again, a non-starter... The HDR-1 is characteristically-shy of IBOC carriers. As I noted over a year ago – the rough ride may NOT be the fault of the vehicle you’re driving... Consider the poorly-designed highway it travels.

‘Now back to the bench... I don’t want to miss the iNiquity strike-out

 

[Chuck]

they listen often online since corporate radio can’t seem to identify a sales market for that format at [of all places] Hilton Head Island. In fact, these smarmy conglomerated critters even manage to avoid the obvious with regards to Motown, the British Invasion, and classic Carolina R&B Beach Music [NO local oldies station there either since 107.9 went sap-AC-70s/disco]. I guess they’re satisfied that recent ratings showed a Savannah HIP-HOP station as #1 – and a MEXICAN-formatted 213-watt daytime AM close behind at #2 : And some wonder what drives the pathetic “HD Radio experiment”, which in reality is “El-toasto”, NADA, and just plain OVER [it was a non-starter to begin with].

I know that it has little to do wih HD radio, but I go to Hilton Head Island once a year, the first weekend in November. Since it's beginning, I've been a judge at the Hilton Head Concours D'Elegance. In my "other life," I'm a car guy. They have a wonderful car show that is getting a lot of national recognition. It is a tribute to the people who live on the island devoting their time and talents to this charity event. I find it totally amazing that there is not a station like mine on the island. It is a natural. I don't care what the guys in suits say, I think there is a lot of money at a place like Hilton Head and the residents would support something they actually wanted to listen to. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. So why are they subjected to radio that completely ignores their life-style and interests? Somebody is simply leaving money on the table.

I understand the usual business perspective of broadcasting where you go for the biggest demo, which equals the lowest common denominator. That's fine, but when you have places like Hilton Head, it's just another example of ignoring reality. I guess the same logic brought us the current version of HD radio. I'd love it if HD worked great, and there were no problems with the technology or interference to other stations. Unfortunately, the current version simply ignores reality. I guess, nothing has changed.

 

[hipporadio]

I find it totally amazing that there is not a station like mine on the island. It is a natural... So why are they subjected to radio that completely ignores their life-style and interests?

Two simple answers, Chuck...

[1] Very-little LOCAL ownership and/or focus. The ink wasn’t dry on the TelCom Act before FM services on Hilton Head (106.1/107.9) and in Beaufort (98.7), Port Royal (99.7), and Parris Island (103.1) were snatched by the usual corporate culprits, hoisted up their taller towers, and hustled down I-95 to become secondary stable-mates in Savannah. Even local [Adult Standards] 1130 WHHR was removed to poorly-serve SAV as an ESPN affiliate [despite an unusable night signal there]. “Localized” operation is confined to the two lowest-octane outlets – John Broomfield’s WWJN 104.9 “John-FM” [targeted to HHI’s eclectic middle-age “trust-funders”] and Walter Czura’s 1430-WNFO [targeted to those who mow lawns for the former]. FIVE strong local signals in 1990 dwindled to only TWO rim-shots by early in this decade!

[2] The dominate corporate radio citizenry: CCU and Cumulus... ‘Nuff said :

Nearly every car, boat, and [many] golf carts piloted by fans of 60s/70s oldies and 50s/60s standards come equipped with XM or Sirius... RARLY, will you hear the typical “Boomer” so much as mention radio as even remotely-relevant to their lifestyle :'(

As I noted earlier...

...recent ratings showed a Savannah HIP-HOP station as #1 – and a MEXICAN-formatted 213-watt daytime AM close behind at #2

‘How ‘bout those “stewards” of this industry these days ???

 

[radiopilot]

...recent ratings showed a Savannah HIP-HOP station as #1 – and a MEXICAN-formatted 213-watt daytime AM close behind at #2

‘How ‘bout those “stewards” of this industry these days ???

Hipporadio... While I agree that the Hip-Hop radio in Savannah is #1 in the ratings the AM Mexican station is not in Savannah and cannot be heard in Savannah, it's a South Carolina station and YES there is alot of Mexicans in that part of South Carolina or do you think the lawns and other everyday items are done by those wealthy Hilton Head smarnys?

It goes to show that the smarnys in Hilton Head are NOT listening to radio and could care less which is why for so many 50+ listeners in that area there is no music leaning to their lifesyle except the 'WJDJ 1490 AM Hilton Head' and even that doesn't get much listenership.

!04.9 which was the only alternative worth listening especially the 'Little Stevie's Underground Show' was the only worthwhile show and even they changed the time on that show to a later hour, then to convert to an 'Urban/Jazz/Oldies/Gospel' station just put the knife in the back of that station.

There are no worthwhile stations in Savannah/Hilton Head anymore!

Radiopilot

 

[hipporadio]

While I agree that the Hip-Hop radio in Savannah is #1 in the ratings the AM Mexican station is not in Savannah and cannot be heard in Savannah, it's a South Carolina station and YES there is alot of Mexicans in that part of South Carolina...

We have a slight disagreement over semantics ONLY, radiopilot... The ratings ranker I mentioned is based on audience figures for BEAUFORT COUNTY where Hilton Head is located. They were recently broken-off from the Savannah Arbitron metro. I’m not sure whether this designation is that of an official “rated market” - or a CSA (Custom Survey Area) – nevertheless, it is published and available to agency subscribers.

You are correct... 1430 WNFO [the Mexican station licensed to Sun City] is difficult to receive in Savannah. Its 213-watt facility is just south of the Broad River off S.C.-170 near Beaufort. It shocked all reviewing the first Arbitron condensed market report for HHI when it showed up at #2. The first-place Hip-Hop station [from Savannah] is easier to understand given the near-total disregard area stations have for the mature audience living on Hilton Head. Older people there are simply NOT using radio because they are offered little service. Adult standards can only be heard [with less-than-optimal reception during the day only] on 730 WLTQ Charleston – a station which recently surrendered its DA and reduced power from 4.3kw to 1.1kw.

Hilton Head has an upgraded FM at 106.1 [now “Active Rock” WXFH] and an AM [the former WHHR at 1130 – now an ESPN affiliate]. Both are operated by Triad [a.k.a. Adventure Radio] and originate from, and primarily serve SAV. Long gone are nearby Port Royal’s 99.7 [the former WHTK which re-licensed to Hollywood, SC and moved into Charleston] and Beaufort’s 98.7 [moved to Savannah and operated by CCU as WYKZ]. Even the Port Royal replacement channel [107.9 WLOW] recently abandoned its local adult-standards/oldies hybrid to move to SAV and become a second-rate 70s-based AC station.

It goes to show that the smarnys in Hilton Head are NOT listening to radio and could care less which is why for so many 50+ listeners in that area there is no music leaning to their lifesyle except the 'WJDJ 1490 AM Hilton Head' and even that doesn't get much listenership.

1490 WJDJ is licensed to distant HARTSVILLE, SC [located well-upstate northwest of Florence] and is far from even receivable at the southerly-most tip of SC. The “local” 1490 is WVGB in Beaufort and has been black-gospel for over 20-years. It is unlistenable only 20-miles away on HHI due to massive salt-water-path co-channel interference from WMOG New Brunswick, GA.

!04.9 which was the only alternative worth listening to...

104.9 was indeed a very-good AAA-format station licensed to Ridgeland. It’s a Class C3 with 16kw from a site due west of Beaufort; places a “marginal” signal over Hilton Head; and has directed most of its attention to that community. It was recently sold by Triad because they were over their Savannah-area station-limit cap; and its new [somewhat-local] owner has taken a very-eclectic programming turn. Although it remains one of only-two local voices, its extreme format leads critics to question its relevancy.

I apologize for wandering off-topic - now you and Chuck are fully up to speed – and the word “smarmy” [greasy] was used to reference the indifferent area radio executives – NOT the residents of [and radio listeners on] Hilton Head... BTW... HHI has no “HD”

 

[Chuck]

Thanks for the local insight about Hilton Head. The ironic thing is the people who live there profess to be very interested in music, at least when they are not play in golf. In fact, one of the big beneficiaries of the Hilton Head Concours is the Hilton Head Symphony Orchestra. I guess everyone just listens to Satellite radio, their own CD collection, maybe an ipod or (horror of horrors) Internet radio.

Once again cash is being left on the table. Maybe it would be fertile ground for HD-2 channels, if you could get them to work that far away from their respective transmitter sites.

By the way it is a great car show that is getting a lot of national attention. http://www.hhiconcours.com/

 

[radiopilot]

While I agree that the Hip-Hop radio in Savannah is #1 in the ratings the AM Mexican station is not in Savannah and cannot be heard in Savannah, it's a South Carolina station and YES there is alot of Mexicans in that part of South Carolina...

We have a slight disagreement over semantics ONLY, radiopilot... The ratings ranker I mentioned is based on audience figures for BEAUFORT COUNTY where Hilton Head is located. They were recently broken-off from the Savannah Arbitron metro. I’m not sure whether this designation is that of an official “rated market” - or a CSA (Custom Survey Area) – nevertheless, it is published and available to agency subscribers.

You are correct... 1430 WNFO [the Mexican station licensed to Sun City] is difficult to receive in Savannah. Its 213-watt facility is just south of the Broad River off S.C.-170 near Beaufort. It shocked all reviewing the first Arbitron condensed market report for HHI when it showed up at #2. The first-place Hip-Hop station [from Savannah] is easier to understand given the near-total disregard area stations have for the mature audience living on Hilton Head. Older people there are simply NOT using radio because they are offered little service. Adult standards can only be heard [with less-than-optimal reception during the day only] on 730 WLTQ Charleston – a station which recently surrendered its DA and reduced power from 4.3kw to 1.1kw.

Hilton Head has an upgraded FM at 106.1 [now “Active Rock” WXFH] and an AM [the former WHHR at 1130 – now an ESPN affiliate]. Both are operated by Triad [a.k.a. Adventure Radio] and originate from, and primarily serve SAV. Long gone are nearby Port Royal’s 99.7 [the former WHTK which re-licensed to Hollywood, SC and moved into Charleston] and Beaufort’s 98.7 [moved to Savannah and operated by CCU as WYKZ]. Even the Port Royal replacement channel [107.9 WLOW] recently abandoned its local adult-standards/oldies hybrid to move to SAV and become a second-rate 70s-based AC station.

It goes to show that the smarnys in Hilton Head are NOT listening to radio and could care less which is why for so many 50+ listeners in that area there is no music leaning to their lifesyle except the 'WJDJ 1490 AM Hilton Head' and even that doesn't get much listenership.

1490 WJDJ is licensed to distant HARTSVILLE, SC [located well-upstate northwest of Florence] and is far from even receivable at the southerly-most tip of SC. The “local” 1490 is WVGB in Beaufort and has been black-gospel for over 20-years. It is unlistenable only 20-miles away on HHI due to massive salt-water-path co-channel interference from WMOG New Brunswick, GA.

!04.9 which was the only alternative worth listening to...

104.9 was indeed a very-good AAA-format station licensed to Ridgeland. It’s a Class C3 with 16kw from a site due west of Beaufort; places a “marginal” signal over Hilton Head; and has directed most of its attention to that community. It was recently sold by Triad because they were over their Savannah-area station-limit cap; and its new [somewhat-local] owner has taken a very-eclectic programming turn. Although it remains one of only-two local voices, its extreme format leads critics to question its relevancy.

I apologize for wandering off-topic - now you and Chuck are fully up to speed – and the word “smarmy” [greasy] was used to reference the indifferent area radio executives – NOT the residents of [and radio listeners on] Hilton Head... BTW... HHI has no “HD”

Thank you Hippo, you are right on the mark and I apologize if I took some of your text out of it's intent.

Savannah/Hilton Head does have lousy radio no matter how you look at it, and as I said the only station worth listening to went eclectic as you mentioned 104.9.

Now I do get WJDJ 1490 AM just great on my radio and it's geared as I said to the 50+ crowd here in Savannah but on a very good radio.

Chuck... that Hilton Head orchestra was the Savannah Symphony Orchestra and most of the members are from Savannah, in fact the one of the trombonist: Carl Polk is my son's personal instructor and High School orchestra instructor, one of the violinist: Emily Calhoun and flutist: Lorraine Jones are my son's orchestra mentors and conductors on the Armstrong Atlantic College Chamber/Youth orchestra for which he is a member, Savannah is once again getting it's own orchestra again and some of the Hilton Head orchestra members will come back to the Savannah music scene again.

I have gone to the Concours D'Elegance in the past and hope to go there again this year, maybe I'll see you there, perhaps we could get RFBurns, Mike, Pocketradio, and the others there for that drink and meet each other, who knows.

You are right Savannah/ Hilton Head does not have HD radio and I don't want it around here.

Radiopilot

 

[Chuck]

I have gone to the Concours D'Elegance in the past and hope to go there again this year, maybe I'll see you there, perhaps we could get RFBurns, Mike, Pocketradio, and the others there for that drink and meet each other, who knows.

I'd enjoy that. Both my wife and I are judges at the Sunday event. I'll be one of the guys walking around wearing a blue blazer. Unless the weather is unusually cool, just look for the trail of sweat....

 

[MasterTheseus]

I do not own either of their “HD Radios”, but recently discovered a disheartening reception experience first-hand from one who received the HDR-1 as a retirement gift. This radio FAILED to snare HD primary and secondary streams on the stations in Indianapolis he had an interest in [one a mere FIVE MILES from his home]. He toted his HDR-1 to his second home on the coast of South Carolina – hoping to receive the HD-2 services from two 100kw Charleston FM stations [up a full 1000-feet] – NO SUCH LUCK there either... And he lives only forty-miles across water from those stations!

Hippo. . . I dont' know if you have contact with this gentleman, but I would urge him strongly to exchange it. We will take care of it. The HDR-1 is as selective and sensitive when using the same antenna in the same environment as the HDT-1. The major drawback is using the whip antenna. It decreases reception by about 2dB. When he sends it back the new version will likely address his concerns.

 

[hipporadio]

Hippo... I dont' know if you have contact with this gentleman, but I would urge him strongly to exchange it. We will take care of it.

Thank-you MT! I’m sure he would be overjoyed at your concern for a user and Sangean’s desire to build customer satisfaction. The man is a retired CFO of a health-insurance company and has a home next door to my parents on the South Carolina coast [midway between Charleston and Savannah]. I was happy for the opportunity to spend an afternoon with his HDR-1 because: [1] I suspected that it may share some common RF capabilities with the HDT-1 which I have a strong interest in, but have yet to get my hands on; and [2] I view Sangean's two new “HD” products open-mindedly as second-generation examples of the technology, and given your reputation for building exceptional radios - anticipated a reception improvement [analog and digital] over some other early [and very-disappointing] products.

His problematic “HD” reception in Indianapolis was from 93.9 WWFT – a Class A with 2.95kw at 145m (6kw equiv) and Public Radio 90.1 WFYI with 10kw at 170m. WWFT is five-miles from his home – both HD services were unreliable or absent [understandable given it's lower power – but hardly edifying]. More powerful WFYI had a stable primary HD service [at about ten-miles] but HD-2 was unreliable. His South Carolina home is well-served by very-powerful FM stations from Charleston and Savannah. There are four FMs in ChasTown with “HD” – none in SAV ['figures ]. The former signals propagate mostly over water, and three are 100kw Class C or C1 signals. ALL “HD” services were unreliable or absent [a very poor “reality” that illustrates the defective FM IBOC system]. There is no AM “HD” in that area.

I am satisfied that THERE WAS NO PROBLEM with his sample of the HDR-1. I positioned it in a second-floor bedroom [away from the ground-floor motion detectors for the home security system, and connected a C Crane “FM-Reflect” premium tuned-dipole. That location offers an abundance of FM and AM signals. Sensitivity is less of an issue than is selectivity. The HDR-1’s adjacent-channel FM selectivity was among the best I have observed in radios of that form-factor – downright OUTSTANDING! AM sensitivity exceeded that of my parents’ mono BA Receptor in that room, and the HDR-1’s analog AM audio quality was well-beyond the norm [and I’m known to harbor some very-nice wideband AM radios].

That gentleman is in his mid-60s and enjoys Oldies and Adult Standards. He enjoys the former from 98.3 WGCO which is well-southwest of Savannah; over 80-miles from his home; and adjacent to strong reception from 50kw WYBB on 98.1 just across St. Helena Sound in Folly Beach, SC. Surprisingly, that is no problem for his HDR-1! Most pleasing to him is the quality of signal from Adult Standards 730-AM WLTQ Charleston - noise-free and outstanding in fidelity.

When he asked me to check-out his HDR-1, I confessed that [while a fan of Sangean products] I was no fan of the current “HD Radio” technology, and warned him against expecting any form of “religious experience” from it. He is happy with his HDR-1 and happy that I found his favorite music stations for him – IN ANALOG! As for Sangean... Your company produces some of the very-finest radios, but you can’t be expected to routinely turn a lemon [IBOC] into lemonade [a reliable and fulfilling radio experience].

 

[Tom Wells]

While not strictly on topic, I'd like to ask MasterTheseus if any of the Sangean products use a tuned RF amp on the AM input, or if
the antenna input goes directly to the mixer. Also, is tuning continous on AM, as even the 1 kc steps as on the ATS-803A are not as
convenient? I REALLY like to be able select a passband variably. It is of utmost importance to me for something connected to my stereo.
While such a feature is useless for FM, the nature of AM allows such tuning to be useful.
And if I am to be attracted to a new tuner, I am loathe to accept what I consider less utility than my current tuners.
I have mostly settled on AM radios with tuned RF stages and 2-IF cans, then modifying detector, audio, and speakers for 20khz
if the original cfg wouldn't do so. For instance, I never even switch the old Sansui TU-7700 to AM. Not worth it.
It's everything I've ever needed for FM, dx or local. So if I were to think seriously about buying an HDT-1 or newer version,
I'd still be very demanding of the AM s performance. Otherwise, I still need to keep my existing radios for what they do, plus buy
an HD radio for the alternate content. I prefer the analog presentation in every way, not for spite, but I find the artifacting
in AM and FM HD more distracting than the blemishes of analog. I'd still use HD2 or 3 channels if there were content for me,
(likely there won't be anything up my alley) but even then, can the HDT-1 act like a real AM tuner, even if it's all varactor tuned?

I have the ATS 803A as my only digitally tuned radio. I have seen aftermarket car-radios with digital display tuning, counting
khz by ones while tuning continuously, so I know it has been done.
Wish I could remember what cheap-name radio that was. 1980's..probably Kraco or some such.

 

[hipporadio]

...I do get WJDJ 1490 AM just great on my radio and it's geared as I said to the 50+ crowd here in Savannah but on a very good radio.

radiopilot, I’m somewhat baffled about your stated reception of 1kw 1490 WJDJ [Hartsville, SC) IN SAVANNAH, since that station is located well-inland and nearly the full length of the state away from you! Co-channel WVGB Beaufort is within a fraction of that distance and is situated between SAV and WJDJ [?] I’m NOT doubting that you enjoy Mr. Sinatra and his friends on 1490, but might I suggest that you are hearing WMOG in Brunswick [south of Savannah]?

WMOG has a mind-boggling salt-water-path signal, and projects interference [along the coast and salt-marsh] that comes within TEN MILES of WVGB. The Beaufort-based signal [although easily-heard] is unusable along the coastal islands of Fripp, Harbor, and Hunting at the same latitude! On the south tip of Hilton Head in Harbortown and Sea Pines [a location well-north of yours], WMOG is clearly receivable. They have a HALF-WAVE antenna that sits just off a salt-water inlet - a half-mile from the ocean. It can even be heard on Sullivan’s Island [within metro Charleston] - I can imagine it would be an easy catch in Savannah and nearly “local” on Tybee Island! Stranger things have happened in radio, though

 

[MasterTheseus]

While not strictly on topic, I'd like to ask MasterTheseus if any of the Sangean products use a tuned RF amp on the AM input, or if
the antenna input goes directly to the mixer. Also, is tuning continous on AM, as even the 1 kc steps as on the ATS-803A are not as
convenient? I REALLY like to be able select a passband variably. It is of utmost importance to me for something connected to my stereo.
While such a feature is useless for FM, the nature of AM allows such tuning to be useful.
And if I am to be attracted to a new tuner, I am loathe to accept what I consider less utility than my current tuners.
I have mostly settled on AM radios with tuned RF stages and 2-IF cans, then modifying detector, audio, and speakers for 20khz
if the original cfg wouldn't do so. For instance, I never even switch the old Sansui TU-7700 to AM. Not worth it.
It's everything I've ever needed for FM, dx or local. So if I were to think seriously about buying an HDT-1 or newer version,
I'd still be very demanding of the AM s performance. Otherwise, I still need to keep my existing radios for what they do, plus buy
an HD radio for the alternate content. I prefer the analog presentation in every way, not for spite, but I find the artifacting
in AM and FM HD more distracting than the blemishes of analog. I'd still use HD2 or 3 channels if there were content for me,
(likely there won't be anything up my alley) but even then, can the HDT-1 act like a real AM tuner, even if it's all varactor tuned?

I have the ATS 803A as my only digitally tuned radio. I have seen aftermarket car-radios with digital display tuning, counting
khz by ones while tuning continuously, so I know it has been done.
Wish I could remember what cheap-name radio that was. 1980's..probably Kraco or some such.

That is a lot of information Tom, and I would love to answer your question, but I honestly have no idea about most of what you are talking about.

I am just a sales & marketing guy and addmittedly know little of the nuances of radio technology. What I am pretty sure of is that the HD Radio's are not continuous tuning. We did not design these tuners to the best as our world radios because saddly there isn't much of a provision in these module boards.

And Hippo, In response to the HD-1 signal being strong and dependable, the standard rule of thumb is that if HD comes in at all it will come in strong on ALL multicast channels. What I have seen quite often is the HD-2 feeds being up, but no audio fed through them. What I have also found is that, for example a station comes in strong and will suddenly and ever so briefly cut out and then come back on. . . This is commonly to do with the grounding of the antenna. The signal as far as the station sees is perfect and broadcasting, but it will tripp for a few moments, enough to drop out HD lock. . . Many people complain about this and the broadcasters say it isn't their fault. Very frustrating.

I am not sure if that answered all your questions adequately enough. I try to do my part but find that often the people of this board and others I am on are way beyond me in knowledge and skill in the technical areas.

 

[dbdigital]

Speaking of Sangean products, here is a comprehensive breakdown of the HDT-1X:

http://ham-radio.com/k6sti/hdt-1x.htm

Technical but quite interesting. Apparently, with some tweaking, the HDT-1X does a better than average job of reproducing analog AM.

db

 

[Tom Wells]

The picture in the article showing the new digital output also includes a view of the AM antenna terminals and the AM
RF amp. There is only a 2-wire output cable and plug, so no variable DC is being fed to a varactor diode over there.
Unless the DC feeds back.....
There is also no mechanism to tune the adjustable inductor, so we must surmise the output from the loop goes into a somewhat
broadbanded RF amp. This would not be the best possible choice for sensitivity or selectivity.
The curves for peak sensitivity reasonance also seem to indicate a tracking issue, which likely matters not if there is sufficient gain.
But if that's a broadbanded input amp, it's a weak link. Good design puts sharp tuning right in the loop, with a very high Q.