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Back to the basics...Is the game on???

S

shilton

I thought it'd be a novel idea to start a topic talking about what's what at the moment seeing how the book is in full swing once again.

Comments...predictions...random thoughts?

Will the Buzz's move to State College help at all...does anyone even care?

Will BLF take a bite out of the mighty long-time AM's in town?

How about the Hot/G101 matchup...Do you think G101 will eat into Hot's audience this time around?

I'd say I predict the Lite 94.5 numbers will fade and prove to be a fluke. I'd say BLF will fare ok as far as AM's go at least for part of the day seeing how they have Rush.

I'd say the Buzz will make no impact at all. Spent a lot of money for nothing. The signal in State College has not improved all that much and in some areas has gotten worse with the audio being out of phase in any spots where both the tower's signal and the booter's signal collide. (Drive the 322 bypass near Toftrees and you will hear what I mean if you have not already)

And here is a surprise...I think G101 will made a better showing in Altoona. Getting LOTS of calls from that neck of the woods from people who say Hot 100 it just too hot for their tastes. Lotsa white bread up there. Too much Boom Boom Boom is not good in their eyes.

Anyone else care to toss in their 2 cents???
Hitman
 
you people think too much...it's radio go enjoy a nice movie


> I thought it'd be a novel idea to start a topic talking
> about what's what at the moment seeing how the book is in
> full swing once again.
>
> Comments...predictions...random thoughts?
>
> Will the Buzz's move to State College help at all...does
> anyone even care?
>
> Will BLF take a bite out of the mighty long-time AM's in
> town?
>
> How about the Hot/G101 matchup...Do you think G101 will eat
> into Hot's audience this time around?
>
> I'd say I predict the Lite 94.5 numbers will fade and prove
> to be a fluke. I'd say BLF will fare ok as far as AM's go at
> least for part of the day seeing how they have Rush.
>
> I'd say the Buzz will make no impact at all. Spent a lot of
> money for nothing. The signal in State College has not
> improved all that much and in some areas has gotten worse
> with the audio being out of phase in any spots where both
> the tower's signal and the booter's signal collide. (Drive
> the 322 bypass near Toftrees and you will hear what I mean
> if you have not already)
>
> And here is a surprise...I think G101 will made a better
> showing in Altoona. Getting LOTS of calls from that neck of
> the woods from people who say Hot 100 it just too hot for
> their tastes. Lotsa white bread up there. Too much Boom
> Boom Boom is not good in their eyes.
>
> Anyone else care to toss in their 2 cents???
> Hitman
>
 
> I thought it'd be a novel idea to start a topic talking
> about what's what at the moment seeing how the book is in
> full swing once again.
>
> Comments...predictions...random thoughts?

Well, I think this only starts up trouble but what the hell...

> Will the Buzz's move to State College help at all...does
> anyone even care?

No and no.

> Will BLF take a bite out of the mighty long-time AM's in
> town?

No...just a bite out of the afternoon due to Rush. But Rush is a little overboard for even some conservatives and they'll proabably stick to O'Reilly and Hannity. The base of Rush fans already made their move to WIEZ. It's a matter of how those two stations will split up the Rush audience.

> How about the Hot/G101 matchup...Do you think G101 will eat
> into Hot's audience this time around?

Yes, but not too much. Kind of depends on who wants their hip-hop mixed in with their Billboard Top 100 songs for the week.

> I'd say I predict the Lite 94.5 numbers will fade and prove
> to be a fluke. I'd say BLF will fare ok as far as AM's go at
> least for part of the day seeing how they have Rush.

I doubt that. Maybe a little dip at best. I hear this station in almost every business I enter. It seems to have taken the place of 3WZ and I've talked to people who work in those businesses. It seems to be their new preference. See above for Rush commentary.

> I'd say the Buzz will make no impact at all. Spent a lot of
> money for nothing. The signal in State College has not
> improved all that much and in some areas has gotten worse
> with the audio being out of phase in any spots where both
> the tower's signal and the booter's signal collide. (Drive
> the 322 bypass near Toftrees and you will hear what I mean
> if you have not already)

Agree with you here. Even Chris and Jim couldn't take their audience with them and I've seen no presence of the Buzz anywhere. Last I checked, my eyes were working just fine.

> And here is a surprise...I think G101 will make a better
> showing in Altoona. Getting LOTS of calls from that neck of
> the woods from people who say Hot 100 it just too hot for
> their tastes. Lotsa white bread up there. Too much Boom
> Boom Boom is not good in their eyes.

Can't disagree with you there. You know how many calls you get and from where. I guess it depends on who has a book in Altoona.

> Anyone else care to toss in their 2 cents???

That's probably about 5 cents but there you go.
 
> you people think too much...it's radio go enjoy a nice
> movie

I hear that chick flick "In Her Shoes" is good and Cameron Diaz is HOT!
 
please don't say HOT we'll start World War III


> > you people think too much...it's radio go enjoy a nice
> > movie
>
> I hear that chick flick "In Her Shoes" is good and Cameron
> Diaz is HOT!
>
 
> please don't say HOT we'll start World War III
>
>
> > > you people think too much...it's radio go enjoy a nice
> > > movie
> >
> > I hear that chick flick "In Her Shoes" is good and Cameron
>
> > Diaz is HOT!
> >
>
The start of this thread is back to the basics.....here they are.....Penn State is a bowl contender....impact good......the economy tanking......impact bad.....one more hurricane in the gulf.....impact disasterous for the northeast.......I agree Lite has achieved what a/c stations are supposed to do...why are they the choice..they execute the basics (the topic of the thread)...by the way....station jingles are supposed to boost ratings...they worked for Lite.......sure there are consultants and group pd,s all with their trends, but every once and awhile pick up the phone like Hilton does and ask the listeners what they are liking about the station...there is another basic..commoon sense...as i have said y'all have the talent to do it....stop thinking about it and as Nike has made a billion saying...Just do it!
 
Mr. Turner seems to have helped all the stations under his direction sound better, regardless of format. Good basic programming.

At the same time, the stats don't support the notion that WLTS is in the top tier for good. Their huge gains in the spring book came in demos that don't ordinarily listen to the format--and those are the kind of gains that ordinarily disappear in the next book. And, no, the gains didn't come from Bob & Sherri in morning drive, which actually dropped.

This looks a lot like the Hot 107.9 book a couple years ago--nobody believed it, then, and they were right.

On the other hand, the gains made by Hot 103 this time around are real. They've laid the groundwork to be in the top tier for a long, long time.


> The start of this thread is back to the basics.....here they
> are.....Penn State is a bowl contender....impact
> good......the economy tanking......impact bad.....one more
> hurricane in the gulf.....impact disasterous for the
> northeast.......I agree Lite has achieved what a/c stations
> are supposed to do...why are they the choice..they execute
> the basics (the topic of the thread)...by the way....station
> jingles are supposed to boost ratings...they worked for
> Lite.......sure there are consultants and group pd,s all
> with their trends, but every once and awhile pick up the
> phone like Hilton does and ask the listeners what they are
> liking about the station...there is another basic..commoon
> sense...as i have said y'all have the talent to do
> it....stop thinking about it and as Nike has made a billion
> saying...Just do it!
>
 
I noticed that no one has mentioned Froggy. I presume that everyone just assumes they are going to stay on top of the lilypad for all time?

> Mr. Turner seems to have helped all the stations under his
> direction sound better, regardless of format. Good basic
> programming.
>
> At the same time, the stats don't support the notion that
> WLTS is in the top tier for good. Their huge gains in the
> spring book came in demos that don't ordinarily listen to
> the format--and those are the kind of gains that ordinarily
> disappear in the next book. And, no, the gains didn't come
> from Bob & Sherri in morning drive, which actually dropped.
>
>
> This looks a lot like the Hot 107.9 book a couple years
> ago--nobody believed it, then, and they were right.
>
> On the other hand, the gains made by Hot 103 this time
> around are real. They've laid the groundwork to be in the
> top tier for a long, long time.
>
>
> > The start of this thread is back to the basics.....here
> they
> > are.....Penn State is a bowl contender....impact
> > good......the economy tanking......impact bad.....one more
>
> > hurricane in the gulf.....impact disasterous for the
> > northeast.......I agree Lite has achieved what a/c
> stations
> > are supposed to do...why are they the choice..they execute
>
> > the basics (the topic of the thread)...by the
> way....station
> > jingles are supposed to boost ratings...they worked for
> > Lite.......sure there are consultants and group pd,s all
> > with their trends, but every once and awhile pick up the
> > phone like Hilton does and ask the listeners what they are
>
> > liking about the station...there is another basic..commoon
>
> > sense...as i have said y'all have the talent to do
> > it....stop thinking about it and as Nike has made a
> billion
> > saying...Just do it!
> >
>
 
Yup. As long as no other FM has the need or inclination to challenge them in Country. Or do you see a challenger on the horizon?


> I noticed that no one has mentioned Froggy. I presume that
> everyone just assumes they are going to stay on top of the
> lilypad for all time?
 
> I noticed that no one has mentioned Froggy. I presume that
> everyone just assumes they are going to stay on top of the
> lilypad for all time?

Yes...Froggy will most likely stay at the top or close to it for the forseeable future. Froggy is what Forever should be with ALL their stations. It was invented at the right moment and it has remained consistent throughout never veering from its roots as an FM County leader.

When you hear or see Froggy...you know what you get and Froggy has brought them great success. Can't understand why they don't duplicate the principal. I mean how many format switches (tweaks) has 103 been through since Forever took over. How about WPRR, WHPA, WMAJ??? The list goes on.

They buy a station, they mess with it every couple years. For some odd reason Froggy has remained consistent and it wins BIG. I'd have to say that Froggy is probably the best piece of radio Forever ever put on the dial (as much as I personally HATE the station)...Its genius at best. Wish I would have thought of it!

Hitman
 
Re: Back to the basics .Froggy,PSU,TLR,etc. ??

> Yup. As long as no other FM has the need or inclination to
> challenge them in Country. Or do you see a challenger on the
> horizon?
>
>
> > I noticed that no one has mentioned Froggy. I presume
> that
> > everyone just assumes they are going to stay on top of the
>
> > lilypad for all time?
>
I have often wondered if the advertisers have any idea just how splintered
the Radio audience is in State College. I think WPSU and WTLR both have
large chunks of the audience which don't show up in the ratings.
Add Froggy's numbers, and the bites taken out by Philipsburg, Mifflin Co.
and Clinton Co. stations, and I think the remaining pie slices are pretty
thin. Just a thought.
 
Probably will even though country music sucks but consider the audience and where we are. We're in a hick town in Poedunk, USA. Gunracks abound. People here are miserable so they listen to miserable music. Nothing uplifting about country music.

> I noticed that no one has mentioned Froggy. I presume that
> everyone just assumes they are going to stay on top of the
> lilypad for all time?
>
> > Mr. Turner seems to have helped all the stations under his
>
> > direction sound better, regardless of format. Good basic
> > programming.
> >
> > At the same time, the stats don't support the notion that
> > WLTS is in the top tier for good. Their huge gains in the
> > spring book came in demos that don't ordinarily listen to
> > the format--and those are the kind of gains that
> ordinarily
> > disappear in the next book. And, no, the gains didn't come
>
> > from Bob & Sherri in morning drive, which actually
> dropped.
> >
> >
> > This looks a lot like the Hot 107.9 book a couple years
> > ago--nobody believed it, then, and they were right.
> >
> > On the other hand, the gains made by Hot 103 this time
> > around are real. They've laid the groundwork to be in the
> > top tier for a long, long time.
> >
> >
> > > The start of this thread is back to the basics.....here
> > they
> > > are.....Penn State is a bowl contender....impact
> > > good......the economy tanking......impact bad.....one
> more
> >
> > > hurricane in the gulf.....impact disasterous for the
> > > northeast.......I agree Lite has achieved what a/c
> > stations
> > > are supposed to do...why are they the choice..they
> execute
> >
> > > the basics (the topic of the thread)...by the
> > way....station
> > > jingles are supposed to boost ratings...they worked for
> > > Lite.......sure there are consultants and group pd,s all
>
> > > with their trends, but every once and awhile pick up the
>
> > > phone like Hilton does and ask the listeners what they
> are
> >
> > > liking about the station...there is another
> basic..commoon
> >
> > > sense...as i have said y'all have the talent to do
> > > it....stop thinking about it and as Nike has made a
> > billion
> > > saying...Just do it!
> > >
> >
>
 
Re: Back to the basics .Froggy,PSU,TLR,etc. ??

> I have often wondered if the advertisers have any idea just
> how splintered
> the Radio audience is in State College. I think WPSU and
> WTLR both have
> large chunks of the audience which don't show up in the
> ratings.
> Add Froggy's numbers, and the bites taken out by
> Philipsburg, Mifflin Co.
> and Clinton Co. stations, and I think the remaining pie
> slices are pretty
> thin. Just a thought.
>
PSU and LTR do have their audiences, but I'd hardly call them a HUGE chunk of the pie. Also, Philipsburg and Mifflin County are not even worth considering. Take a look at Murf or the Buzz's showings in the book. Froggy..Yes they are considered to be an industry leader as they should be.

But the rest of these are not worth even paying attention to. Their audiences are just too vastly different from what radio sales is are trying to reach. Ask the friendly neighborhood bar how many born again Christians he thinks would come into his establishment if he targeted the LTR listner. I promise you, not a one is even interested in reaching that base. Most people in the world tend to look at born again Chrisians as kinda "freaky". You avoid them like the plague. Sorry..not trying to be cruel but its the truth. I am a church-going man and I run like heck when I see them.

The bottom line is there are still tons of people out there to be won over and lots of advertising dollars to plug into if one tries. The smaller guys see a harder time getting by due to the industry giants than we do because of stations like WPSU or LTR.

Hitman
 
Re: Back to the basics .Froggy,PSU,TLR,etc. ??

I went back to your original post and reread what you wrote. It appears at that time, the ability to sell stations wasn't a factor. Now it seems that the ability to sell a station is the only factor.

You say there are stations not worth paying attention to. I don't concur with your opinion.

I'd also disagree with how many Christians there are that frequently local drinking establishments. Fact is, every person ,regardless of their religious background needs a beer every now and then unless of course you're a recovering alcoholic or just don't like alcohol.

And what is the difference between the so-called "freaky" "Born again Christian" and a "church going man?" Does that mean you go for show? The term "born again Christian" is now construed as negative because of the low population of fanatics who thump Bibles over the heads of masses who don't wish to be thumped."

Most of us are simply Christian people and are as normal and have the same imperfect lives as everyone else. It would be refreshing to have someone advertise to me as a Christian. The world is a crappy place.

> PSU and LTR do have their audiences, but I'd hardly call
> them a HUGE chunk of the pie. Also, Philipsburg and Mifflin
> County are not even worth considering. Take a look at Murf
> or the Buzz's showings in the book. Froggy..Yes they are
> considered to be an industry leader as they should be.
>
> But the rest of these are not worth even paying attention
> to. Their audiences are just too vastly different from what
> radio sales is are trying to reach. Ask the friendly
> neighborhood bar how many born again Christians he thinks
> would come into his establishment if he targeted the LTR
> listner. I promise you, not a one is even interested in
> reaching that base. Most people in the world tend to look
> at born again Chrisians as kinda "freaky". You avoid them
> like the plague. Sorry..not trying to be cruel but its the
> truth. I am a church-going man and I run like heck when I
> see them.
>
> The bottom line is there are still tons of people out there
> to be won over and lots of advertising dollars to plug into
> if one tries. The smaller guys see a harder time getting by
> due to the industry giants than we do because of stations
> like WPSU or LTR.
>
> Hitman
>
 
Re: Back to the basics .Froggy,PSU,TLR,etc. ??

> And what is the difference between the so-called "freaky"
> "Born again Christian" and a "church going man?" Does that
> mean you go for show? The term "born again Christian" is
> now construed as negative because of the low population of
> fanatics who thump Bibles over the heads of masses who don't
> wish to be thumped."
>
> Most of us are simply Christian people and are as normal and
> have the same imperfect lives as everyone else. It would be
> refreshing to have someone advertise to me as a Christian.
> The world is a crappy place.
Not saying I don't agree with you...but look at the ads you see...Sex sells all over the tube. People just are not reaching out to the Moral folks I guess. If you can find a way to make it work, I am sure plenty would be all ears.

And no, I was not saying the ability to sell the station is the ONLY thing...but if you can't sell it, it really does not matter how many listeners you have because you will go out of business (granted WPSU and probably LTR are exception to this because of HOW they are funded).

And yes sadly for the average Joe, these station ARE insignificant. There are a lot of people who listen to WPSU or WTLR, I will give you that...but there are plenty more who have no idea what they are, nor do they care. Same goes for REVV FM adn K-Love and any other religious type broadcast on the dial.

People just don't get into it (not the masses anyway).

Oh and the difference between a Church going man and a "kook" is that one has his beliefs, holds them true and tries to live his life the best way he can and the other feels they have to go out and save the whole world and won't think twice about telling you whatever you believe in is wrong and you are damned for believing it.

Ask me which type person people THINK listens to the religious stations (regardless as to whether that is true or not).

Hitman
 
Christian Combo at #3!

Out of curiosity I ran a ranker combining the six Christian FM signals (WTLR, WRXV, WKVB, WDBA & WGRC/WJRC) in the region and their share would rank 'em #3 in State College on a two-book average--behind only WPSU & Froggy. In other markets, commercial Christian stations do plenty of business, based on the pitch that their listeners gotta buy the same stuff everyone else does. Of the area 6-pack only WDBA is commercial, but they sell the hell out of it over in Clearfield County. Hey, religion is Big Business!

> I went back to your original post and reread what you wrote.
> It appears at that time, the ability to sell stations
> wasn't a factor. Now it seems that the ability to sell a
> station is the only factor.
>
> You say there are stations not worth paying attention to. I
> don't concur with your opinion.
>
> I'd also disagree with how many Christians there are that
> frequently local drinking establishments. Fact is, every
> person ,regardless of their religious background needs a
> beer every now and then unless of course you're a recovering
> alcoholic or just don't like alcohol.
>
> And what is the difference between the so-called "freaky"
> "Born again Christian" and a "church going man?" Does that
> mean you go for show? The term "born again Christian" is
> now construed as negative because of the low population of
> fanatics who thump Bibles over the heads of masses who don't
> wish to be thumped."
>
> Most of us are simply Christian people and are as normal and
> have the same imperfect lives as everyone else. It would be
> refreshing to have someone advertise to me as a Christian.
> The world is a crappy place.
 
WPSU: #1 and Insignificant?

Whoa... wait just a minute. You're in grave danger of Rampant Ethnocentrism! :)

It might clash dramatically with your way of looking at the world, but WPSU has now racked up 4 straight #1 books in State College. The execs at Innovation Park say it's the highest rated public radio station in America, in 12+ market share. WPSU is the "elephant in the room" that you're ignoring.

Instead of dismissing this information, you should be analyzing it. What does this tell you about Centre County residents? What does it tell you about designing programming to attract them--and compete with WPSU?

The real question for local programmers isn't about tackling Froggy. Who wants to tackle WPSU?

> And yes sadly for the average Joe, these station ARE
> insignificant. There are a lot of people who listen to WPSU
> or WTLR, I will give you that...but there are plenty more
> who have no idea what they are, nor do they care. Same goes
> for REVV FM adn K-Love and any other religious type
> broadcast on the dial.
>
> People just don't get into it (not the masses anyway).
 
Re: WPSU: #1 and Insignificant?

Very well put!

It tells me the bleeding heart liberals are all listening to WPSU and the conservatives are divided up among Froggy and those religious stations that are insignificant. But there are more conservatives here than there are bleeding heart liberals.

And even the ones who fall somewhere in the middle are divided up.

> Whoa... wait just a minute. You're in grave danger of
> Rampant Ethnocentrism! :)
>
> It might clash dramatically with your way of looking at the
> world, but WPSU has now racked up 4 straight #1 books in
> State College. The execs at Innovation Park say it's the
> highest rated public radio station in America, in 12+ market
> share. WPSU is the "elephant in the room" that you're
> ignoring.
>
> Instead of dismissing this information, you should be
> analyzing it. What does this tell you about Centre County
> residents? What does it tell you about designing programming
> to attract them--and compete with WPSU?
>
> The real question for local programmers isn't about tackling
> Froggy. Who wants to tackle WPSU?
>
> > And yes sadly for the average Joe, these station ARE
> > insignificant. There are a lot of people who listen to
> WPSU
> > or WTLR, I will give you that...but there are plenty more
> > who have no idea what they are, nor do they care. Same
> goes
> > for REVV FM adn K-Love and any other religious type
> > broadcast on the dial.
> >
> > People just don't get into it (not the masses anyway).
>
 
Re: WPSU: #1 and Insignificant?

I prefer to describe the liberals as "moral and caring and intellectually superior" and the conservatives as "wacko, militaristic, lunatics" ;-) Other than that, you are correct.

One weakness that WPSU has...and I'm not sure "weakness" is the correct way to put it...is that they don't tackle local issues very much. They cover such a wide area that they really can't talk about local State College issues without pissing off the rest of their audience. But it begs the question...is there room for intelligent talk about local issues in State College? I maintain that there is...and always has been. However, Forever's lack of interest in the AM dial has resulted in the purging of almost all local news content on WMAJ and WRSC. WBLF is trying...but I don't think they have the wattage or visibility in the community to get the numbers or the sales.

WRTA has done very well with a heavy dose of local news and talk in Altoona. And there's a lot more going on here than in Altoona.

> Very well put!
>
> It tells me the bleeding heart liberals are all listening to
> WPSU and the conservatives are divided up among Froggy and
> those religious stations that are insignificant. But there
> are more conservatives here than there are bleeding heart
> liberals.
>
> And even the ones who fall somewhere in the middle are
> divided up.
>
> > Whoa... wait just a minute. You're in grave danger of
> > Rampant Ethnocentrism! :)
> >
> > It might clash dramatically with your way of looking at
> the
> > world, but WPSU has now racked up 4 straight #1 books in
> > State College. The execs at Innovation Park say it's the
> > highest rated public radio station in America, in 12+
> market
> > share. WPSU is the "elephant in the room" that you're
> > ignoring.
> >
> > Instead of dismissing this information, you should be
> > analyzing it. What does this tell you about Centre County
> > residents? What does it tell you about designing
> programming
> > to attract them--and compete with WPSU?
> >
> > The real question for local programmers isn't about
> tackling
> > Froggy. Who wants to tackle WPSU?
> >
> > > And yes sadly for the average Joe, these station ARE
> > > insignificant. There are a lot of people who listen to
> > WPSU
> > > or WTLR, I will give you that...but there are plenty
> more
> > > who have no idea what they are, nor do they care. Same
> > goes
> > > for REVV FM adn K-Love and any other religious type
> > > broadcast on the dial.
> > >
> > > People just don't get into it (not the masses anyway).
> >
>
 
Re: WPSU: #1 and Insignificant?

Thanks, though you might want to check the voter registration rolls (GOP is the minority in Centre County).

Besides, the true conservatives are glued to WRSC (with BLF/IEZ--Rush--on the side). I don't hear the "liberal" slant of NPR's news programs--"Morning Edition" & "All Things Considered." I hear it in other programs ("Alternative Radio" and in some of Terri Gross's "Fresh Air" interviews). But the news is pretty straightforward, partly because the GOP has the gun pointed at NPR's head. If you haven't listened in a few years, give it a shot. It ain't like the old days.

That said, WPSU's strength probably has more to do with providing 4 hours of news every morning and 4 hours of news every afternoon. No personality, no banter. Not news/talk... just news, and lots of it. All-news is a High IQ format, and we've got a bunch of them kind around here for some reason.

Their weakness is local news; they do very little. So the task, I think, would be to produce an outstanding/killer/balls-to-the-wall local news operation--of strong enough quality (reporting & on-air talent) to stack up with their national product. On FM. And promote the hell out of it. Very expensive. Not impossible, but Very Expensive.

And that's where it gets tough competing with a non-profit. Most commercial radio outfits want to have a profit left over at the end of the day.


> Very well put!
>
> It tells me the bleeding heart liberals are all listening to
> WPSU and the conservatives are divided up among Froggy and
> those religious stations that are insignificant. But there
> are more conservatives here than there are bleeding heart
> liberals.
>
> And even the ones who fall somewhere in the middle are
> divided up.
 
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