If the bay area going to a country music format again. I think the demographics is going to be a donut-hole effect. You will not find many country listeners in San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, or Northern San Mateo Peninsula due to the demographics and ethnic group. Since San Francisco and Oakland are known for minority-majority city. I doubt country music will work in these communities. I'm thinking more of South Bay, Dublin, Pleasanton, Diablo Valley, San Ramon Valley, Hayward, and north bay fringes, not Marlin county. Also, political, San Francisco area is heavy liberal, that country music tends to target more of Conservative Republican audience.
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Bay Area country formats - what would work today?
- Thread starter DaveBayArea
- Start date
When KSAN/KNEW were big, country music was in flux. In other words, it sucked. Eagles & Linda Ronstadt were liberally mixed into the format, even some Creedence. They both had a good adult sound and KSAN had a great signal.
Of course the Bay Area isn't the biggest market for country fans, but a well programmed radio station, that had a great signal, from north to south bay, could do very well. In my opinion, the Bear and Wolf changed too often and screamed at you. The Wolf was especially guilty of both. I'm an adult, I don't want to be screamed at. Also, I know that hiring an on-air person with less experience will save the company money, but talent is worth a few bucks, not to mention consistency. Hello? It's not that country format that has failed in SF, it the crappy way it's been done. (BTW, Young Country had no south bay signal, and the fact that Young was in their name was a turn off for me).
Of course the Bay Area isn't the biggest market for country fans, but a well programmed radio station, that had a great signal, from north to south bay, could do very well. In my opinion, the Bear and Wolf changed too often and screamed at you. The Wolf was especially guilty of both. I'm an adult, I don't want to be screamed at. Also, I know that hiring an on-air person with less experience will save the company money, but talent is worth a few bucks, not to mention consistency. Hello? It's not that country format that has failed in SF, it the crappy way it's been done. (BTW, Young Country had no south bay signal, and the fact that Young was in their name was a turn off for me).
TheBigA said:
You're correct, it was Malrite. The place I worked for at the time leased a subcarrier from them. I don't know that country necessarily sucked back then either, but that is - of course - a matter of taste. I can say, personally, they had a button on my car radio back then. But they did play classic Creedence, along with One Time One Night by Los Lobos (which was then a current). They're great Country songs, but I doubt they hit the nationwide top-40 country charts.
Dave B.
e-dawg said:
It depends again on what you call "country". As somewhat of an expert on this, I see 10 different genres that fit into the term: bluegrass, gospel, honky-tonk, oldtime, Western swing, Nashville sound, Bakersfield sound, Cajun, jug band, and a collection of subgenres called newgrass.
I remind people that San Francisco has two bluegrass festivals (Hardly Strictly in October and the SF Bluegrass & Oldtime Festival in February), three major monthly bluegrass jams, a twice monthly oldtime jam, at least 15 local bluegrass bands, 5 jug bands, a couple newgrass bands, two Western swing bands, and at least 4 honky-tonk bands I can think of -- and that's SF by itself, not including Oakland, or the local hotbed of country music, El Cerrito.
But none of these bands or their fans embrace Nashville sound, which is the dominant country music radio sound nationally. So, yeah, if you're going to program a station with Nashville sound experience shows it's not going to do very well. But consider the other genres and then maybe you've got something.
DavidKaye said:
I think if you put all the other genres together, you're still not going to get enough people to move the meters. Otherwise, a non-commercial station would devote more time to it. They're all non-commercial musical forms, and there's not a lot of sharing of fans among them. So it ends up being a nice way to spend an afternoon with friends, but is hardly the basis for a commercial radio format in a major market.
Your list of ten missed Americana, which is attempting to become a larger centralized genre for bluegrass, roots rock, and less commercial country. That's where Johnny Cash spent his final years. Lots of older country acts and even a few former rockers like Robert Plant and Levon Helm. It differs from classic country in that it features new music by these older artists. And even this format, with major names and the Americana Music Association pushing it, is less than a blip on the musical screen. As I've said, more than a dozen core Nashville artists are getting airplay on KOIT, so there definitely is an audience for it.
TheBigA said:
That prediction doesn't play out in the Salinas/Monterey market, where the dominant Americana station (KPIG) has traditionally outdone the dominant Country station (KTOM). Even with KTOM's superior signal. It used to be even more dramatic in the earlier days of KPIG, under Laura Hopper. That was some fine radio.
The biggest problem with Americana is that, like AAA, it's a format that pretty much has to be developed in a market and something that programmers must constantly pay special attention to. It requires creativity. But I consider Americana to be a completely different format than Country. Most of the music you hear on KPIG or WNCW or fatmusicradio is drastically different from Trace Adkins, Martina McBride, or anything else you hear on KRTY.
Dave B.
DaveBayArea said:
They describe themselves as alternative rock and blues. One would think that format would do better than it does now in SF.
DaveBayArea said:
I agree. It's closer to rock and blues than country. That's why its audience tends to be older and more male. And why country artists like Martina McBride and Rascal Flatts get played on KOIT. And that station is #1.
KOIT played like 10 songs of country music (not enough songs), but today's country music is not true country music. Today's country music mixes with (soft) rock, Pop, rap.... Long time country listeners saying it moving away from it's root. That's way some song have air time on KOIT.
Do KOIT playing Brooks and Dunns tell me? Trace Adkins, Big & Rich
Do KOIT playing Brooks and Dunns tell me? Trace Adkins, Big & Rich
emprex said:
In the same way pop stations in the 60s played Eddy Arnold, Patsy Cline, Jim Reeves, Marty Robbins, and all the country-pop stars of the past. There's always been a pop side to country, and a rock side to it. I think what's really happening (and this is covered in another thread) is that format radio, as we know it, is changing. Peoples' tastes are very broad and they're likely to want to hear a mixture of genres rather than one that's strict and narrow. That's actually why the country format is doing so well in markets outside SF and NY. As a format, it mixes so many styles that listeners who want variety like it. The only people who care about the roots of country are too old to matter to advertisers. Today's audiences just want to hear good songs.
TheBigA said:
I disagree. People don't like a mix of genres; they like something that is comforting and as non-threatening as an old pair of slippers. People haven't gone to country; country has gone to them by dumbing down the sound. Well, maybe that's not the right word. Let's say that the "country" tunes that play on MOR stations are pop tunes by people identified as country performers.
An example: Dollly Parton is a fine *live* country performer, and people who have seen her play fiddle and mandolin and banjo in her concerts and sing country tunes will attest to that. But she's not a country hitmaker, and she seldom even lets country musicians play country style on her tunes. I can't think of any country hit songs she's had. Her hits have all been pop -- 9 to 5, Coat of Many Colors, Here You Come Again, Love Is Like A Butterfly. I rest my case.
The folks at Range Radio are trying to spread their new format...
http://www.rangeradio.com/
Their artist list mentions:
"...Merle Haggard, Patsy Cline, Willie Nelson, Bob Wills, George Strait, Chris LeDoux, Asleep At The Wheel, Lyle Lovett, Robert Earl Keen, Ian Tyson, Don Edwards, Dave Stamey, Joni Harms, Eliza Gilykson, Nora Jones, Marty Robbins, R.W. Hampton, Michael Martin Murphy, Rex Allen, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Tom Hiatt, Tom Russell, Patty Griffin, Nanci Griffith, Neil Young, Kevin Costner, Jeff Bridges, Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris and many...many more"
Any chance this would work around here?
http://www.rangeradio.com/
Their artist list mentions:
"...Merle Haggard, Patsy Cline, Willie Nelson, Bob Wills, George Strait, Chris LeDoux, Asleep At The Wheel, Lyle Lovett, Robert Earl Keen, Ian Tyson, Don Edwards, Dave Stamey, Joni Harms, Eliza Gilykson, Nora Jones, Marty Robbins, R.W. Hampton, Michael Martin Murphy, Rex Allen, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, Tom Hiatt, Tom Russell, Patty Griffin, Nanci Griffith, Neil Young, Kevin Costner, Jeff Bridges, Mark Knopfler and Emmylou Harris and many...many more"
Any chance this would work around here?
marshallstax said:
Heard Asleep At The Wheel's excellent version of "Don't Let Go". Interesting mix of music. I happen to like it, but I think it might be a little too gimmicky for many listeners. But it has a mix of styles, including a little doo wop for good measure. The two stations carrying it are both listed as news/talk. Both stations carrying the format are tiny. Interesting that they have Rex Allen Jr voicing the overnights.
DavidKaye said:
And as I said, there's a 60 year tradition of that, starting with Eddy Arnold. You call it "dumbing down," but I'd suggest they're taking it up scale with music that appeals to a more sophisticated audience than the typical Hee Haw crowd.
And it works. If you look at the artisst KOIT plays, it's obviously a mix of genres and styles, with some R&B, some country, some pop, and some light rock. So to say it's not is ignoring the facts.
By the way, I've seen Dolly many times, and she has NEVER played the fiddle. I don't know where you came up with that idea. Or the banjo. But she definitely IS a country hitmaker with a string of strictly country #1s. I don't know where you got this idea that Coat of Many Colors went pop. Here's her discography, and she only had two pop hits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Parton_singles_discography
Sure she also had a few crossovers like 9To 5 and Here You Come Again. But she's mostly country. The reason she hasn't had any hits in the last 15 years is she's 65 years old. Paul McCartney hasn't had any hits lately either.
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