BBC License Fee - Gone - 2027

[davideduardo]

I will never forget my first dose of BBC TV.

In the mid-80's I made my first biz trip to the UK. The flight arrived about 0600 on a Sunday morning and nothing, and I mean NOTHING, was open even at Heathrow. I rented my car and drove the hour to Swindon and checked into my hotel. Since I had gotten a relatively good night's sleep on the trip over I was now wide awake and flipped the telly on. There was one channel broadcasting. It was the BBC and the program was half a dozen people sitting on a picnic table in a park bird watching. Yes, BIRD WATCHING!

That beats the live domino tournament broadcasts in Puerto Rico by a country mile!

 

[Marcos_C]

That's the monopoly for you. On the radio side, the BBC effectively outlawed its competition ("commercial interests", as they called it) until the 1970's. I would bet the story is similar for TV.

No, ITV has existed as a commercial alternative to the BBC since 1955.

 

[TheBigA]

No, ITV has existed as a commercial alternative to the BBC since 1955.

True...a number of ITV shows made it to the US in the 60s and 70s, most notably The Avengers.

 

[Mikey Radio]

Maybe slightly off topic, but for the past 3 or 4 years my NPR station has carried BBC World News overnight, which I never minded because in the overnight hours there are probably few listening, their news coverage is solid, it tends to be as apolitical and objective as possible and some of their human interest stories and features can be interesting. However, at some point during the pandemic they also started carrying the BBC for the hour when I'm usually commuting in the morning, rather than having other "standard" NPR news or programming on and I really dislike it.

Too many times there have been major incidents, political events, court cases, senate hearings or other items happening in the USA and those are the items I'd like to hear more about in the morning on my way to work, but instead those get little to no coverage, while I'm hearing a 10 minute story about a small village in backwoods India where the town's water distribution system hasn't worked in months (complete with sound effects of them trying to turn on the faucet and getting nothing), causing the family to get their water from the local river (with sound effects of them dipping and filling their buckets) and hope it contains no bacteria from the cows grazing nearby (cue sounds of cows mooing). A human interest story for sure and I feel for those people, but IMO I'd rather be hearing more coverage about hot button items occurring within the US at that time of the day. For that reason I've found myself listening to other programming in the morning when I used to be loyal to NPR on my way to/from work. I've also reduced my support just a bit during their pledge drives as well, with an explanation as to why.

 

[fybush]

That's the monopoly for you. On the radio side, the BBC effectively outlawed its competition ("commercial interests", as they called it) until the 1970's. I would bet the story is similar for TV. Sadly, the Britons just have never experienced much "choice" until those restrictions are lifted, and so they are under the impression that the BBC is some sort of deity. This is fueled by entire generations who, in fact, had no other options but to watch the BBC, and the network could continue to be fed by the British government as much as they wanted. In the US, we accuse the media of being misleading, and we hold them accountable. In the UK, the BBC has only itself to consult before publishing stories, and they have been responsible for so many hoaxes (such as the Spaghetti growing on trees prank), and yet the BBC is not just above the law, they are the law.

It's the practical equivalent of if PBS/NPR suddenly decided to broadcast whatever format they felt like, and then require a license to receive that content, and then saying that anyone running a commercial operation (like ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC, for example) without the permission of the PBS should be shut down. Now imagine that Bachelorette, Young Sheldon, Chicago PD, and Masterchef was all ran on PBS, probably with some changes to appease the station and the government. There would likely be 7-10 stations labeled as PBS, and that would be the only reliable way to recieve content. On the radio side, we would see NPR probably having quite a few subchannels, with translators all over the band, and they would play all sorts of music. Although it sounds like a good thing, the reality is that this alternate NPR would've ran out the other stations like the BBC did, and if there was any other stations, it would probably be a conglomerate who runs it. (In London, as an example, KISS, Classic FM, Talk-Sport, and others are all massive corporations that the government made excptions for. Only recently has individuals been able to put a station on air, and the story behind "Radio Jackie" on 107.8 is a great testament to how the small people won their rights). So in a world where NPR was all-ruling, an Audacy and an iheartradio would crop up late in the game, and they would still be at the whims of NPR. (Remember that in the real world, NPR wants to screw over Franken FM's. If the US went the way of the UK, the Franken FM'S would be wiped off the map decades ago.)

Considering that analogy, we can see how the BBC has truly brainwashed its own audience. As so long as these people continue to be complacent on the matter, the BBC will always raise new generations to continue "supporting" the service. Not to mention that the BBC has a pretty good deal: Speak highly of their government, and the government will have the BBC'S back every single time.

Your perspective is unusual, I'll give you that.

Have you ever been to the UK, just for starters?

Commercial radio has been around for just short of 50 years there. Nobody who's under 60 today ever knew a time when the BBC had a monopoly, never mind the heavy-handed monopoly you seem to imagine it is. (And you'd have to be almost 80 to remember a time when the BBC was the only thing on TV.)

It's a long way from Idaho to Islington. The BBC occupies a very different place in British culture from what you're imagining. It competes for audience with commercial radio and it wins on content and localism, not by being any kind of default. It has mandates to use its many services to serve all Britons, across demographic and linguistic lines, in a way that sometimes competes with commercial radio and sometimes fills gaps the big commerical operators can't afford to touch.

(You might want to go back to the first page for more of my thoughts on the matter, as someone who's spent time in the UK and experienced much of what the BBC has to offer.)

Anyway, given the mess the Tories are in right now, I'd bet more than a few pounds that their "end the license fee in 2027" stunt will never come to pass.

 

[davideduardo]

Your perspective is unusual, I'll give you that.

Have you ever been to the UK, just for starters?

Commercial radio has been around for just short of 50 years there. Nobody who's under 60 today ever knew a time when the BBC had a monopoly, never mind the heavy-handed monopoly you seem to imagine it is. (And you'd have to be almost 80 to remember a time when the BBC was the only thing on TV.)

And before there was authorized commercial radio in the UK in the 70's, we had Radio Luxembourg going back even to the pre-WW II era and pumping a one-megawatt lobe towards London and the Southeastern UK. Then we had a decade of Caroline and friends on ships and old military forts in international waters.

Saying a lot here: you have to be older than I am to remember when there was no commercial radio available in much of the UK.

Sidebar: the real push towards commercial radio can be credited to a bunch of music groups that played anywhere they could for the Liverpudlians / Scousers who made Merseyside famous!

It's a long way from Idaho to Islington. The BBC occupies a very different place in British culture from what you're imagining. It competes for audience with commercial radio and it wins on content and localism, not by being any kind of default. It has mandates to use its many services to serve all Britons, across demographic and linguistic lines, in a way that sometimes competes with commercial radio and sometimes fills gaps the big commerical operators can't afford to touch.

And, like the best of the NPR affiliated stations, they fund operations differently as well as hiving different financial goals. Magnificent news coverage, exposure of kinds of music and entertainment the "we colonials" can not even envision as being "doable".

Another sidebar: I consider the elimination of news and content requirements from FCC licensing to be a significant factor in the dumbing down of American awareness and perspective. Even those "20-20 News" capsules made people aware of what was going on in the world. And those of us who spread Public Affairs across all 168 hours of the week with capsules like "Question Man" (a daily topic with one or two street or phone reactions each hour) and the like made people think about hot subjects as well as showing that we Americans had a variety of opinions on everything.

(You might want to go back to the first page for more of my thoughts on the matter, as someone who's spent time in the UK and experienced much of what the BBC has to offer.)

And as someone who spends a lot of time documenting the history of the Beeb as well as radio and music and technology in the UK...

https://worldradiohistory.com/index-International.htm

... I have come to think that they have a better system.

Anyway, given the mess the Tories are in right now, I'd bet more than a few pounds that their "end the license fee in 2027" stunt will never come to pass.

Here's hoping!

 

[davideduardo]

I've also reduced my support just a bit during their pledge drives as well, with an explanation as to why.

But that is a local station's decision, is it not?

I am wondering if the effects of the pandemic on budgets and the staff caused severe cutbacks in your market and on your NPR affiliated station.

One of the biggest difference between the NPR and the BBC (and there are many) is that NPR does not own and operate stations. They provide programming options, and local stations make decisions on how to integrate NPR content into their program lineup.

The NPR reflects, to some extent, the "colonial" attitude of rejecting a big federal government. Like all blanket attitudes, that is not always the truly best option.

And I am so glad my cable system has the BBC World Service.

 

[itsTheRolyPoly]

And I am so glad my cable system has the BBC World Service.

Your cable system has the World Service? Who?

 

[Mikey Radio]

But that is a local station's decision, is it not?

Yes, that's correct.

I am wondering if the effects of the pandemic on budgets and the staff caused severe cutbacks in your market and on your NPR affiliated station.

This may have been the case. They didn't really explain the programming change, nor did they mention it during recent pledge drives (meaning, telling listeners they'd already had to make changes/cuts in programming due to lack of funding, or explaining that if fundraising was more fruitful, they'd potentially bring XYZ programming back). Had that been the case, I'd consider increasing my pledge amount for sure. As it is, I've actually lowered my pledge amount due to the programming change (with a note explaining why), and now listen elsewhere for the kinds of local and national news I desire to hear during the morning commute - the type of programming that NPR station once offered.

 

[davideduardo]

Your cable system has the World Service? Who?

Frontier Coachella Valley.

 

[fybush]

Frontier Coachella Valley.

"BBC World Service" is the international radio network. What David gets on his cable system (and what I get on Spectrum here) is "BBC World News," the television network. I think it's pretty widely available on cable/satellite providers. In the US, it's a commercial service, a joint partnership between BBC Enterprises and one of the US cable channel operators.

There's some talk that the current cutbacks being mulled by the BBC will include merging BBC World News in its various international feeds with BBC News, the UK 24-hour news channel. I hope they don't go that route, though I'd love to have easier access to the domestic BBC News channel that doesn't require puttering around with a VPN.

 

[davideduardo]

"BBC World Service" is the international radio network. What David gets on his cable system (and what I get on Spectrum here) is "BBC World News," the television network.

My error in capitalizing "Service" which is, as you say, the actual name of the radio offering. I meant to say the international TV service of the Beeb and it came out confusingly wrong!

This, of course, shows how often even industry insiders get confused or use inaccurately similar names. I find that all the names made up of amalgamated vowels and consonants are, collectively, hard to remember. Heck, I don't know for certain which paid TV services I am subscribed to after binging on streamed content during the pandemic. And I am not alone; a local friend asked why there was a radio operator named "Oddity".

I said, "we are all a little odd at times..."

I think it's pretty widely available on cable/satellite providers. In the US, it's a commercial service, a joint partnership between BBC Enterprises and one of the US cable channel operators.

And, except when they do a whole hour on the alkalinity of the soil in certain Sub-Saharan African nations (I exaggerate only moderately) it is a very thorough coverage of the rest of the world.

There's some talk that the current cutbacks being mulled by the BBC will include merging BBC World News in its various international feeds with BBC News, the UK 24-hour news channel. I hope they don't go that route, though I'd love to have easier access to the domestic BBC News channel that doesn't require puttering around with a VPN.

Ah, the VPN route. My website associate in the UK is a tennis fanatic and we engage in regular battles to get him some of the matches that are not carried in the UK. I worry that I will be visited by the Thought Police and sent off to the Soylent Green factory...

 

[IM42A]

I will never forget my first dose of BBC TV.

In the mid-80's I made my first biz trip to the UK. The flight arrived about 0600 on a Sunday morning and nothing, and I mean NOTHING, was open even at Heathrow. I rented my car and drove the hour to Swindon and checked into my hotel. Since I had gotten a relatively good night's sleep on the trip over I was now wide awake and flipped the telly on. There was one channel broadcasting. It was the BBC and the program was half a dozen people sitting on a picnic table in a park bird watching. Yes, BIRD WATCHING!

I made a similar trip a few years later and, yep, that pretty much nails it.

I'm reminded here of the old ABC Monday Night Football promos that showed "Monday night TV in [insert name of random country here]", with things like folk dancing, and "Monday night TV in America" with football clips and, IIRC, Hank Williams Jr --- sorry, I can't find an example of this on YouTube. It also makes me think of the kids in National Lampoon's European Vacation about to die of ennui having nothing to watch but dull British programs, they resorted to singing jingles from American commercials, "reach out, reach out and touch someone....". (Sorry, can't find a clip of that either.)

 

[gr8oldies]

My error in capitalizing "Service" which is, as you say, the actual name of the radio offering. I meant to say the international TV service of the Beeb and it came out confusingly wrong!

This, of course, shows how often even industry insiders get confused or use inaccurately similar names. I find that all the names made up of amalgamated vowels and consonants are, collectively, hard to remember. Heck, I don't know for certain which paid TV services I am subscribed to after binging on streamed content during the pandemic. And I am not alone; a local friend asked why there was a radio operator named "Oddity".

I said, "we are all a little odd at times..."

And, except when the do a whole hour on the alkalinity of the soil in certain Sub-Saharan African nations (I exaggerate only moderately) it is a very thorough coverage of the rest of the world.

Ah, the VPN route. My website associate in the UK is a tennis fanatic and we engage in regular battles to get him some of the matches that are not carried in the UK. I worry that I will be visited by the Thought Police and sent off to the Soylent Green factory...

"It's the Phone Cops!--Dr. Johnny Fever

 

[Miss Tuned]

"It's the Phone Cops!--Dr. Johnny Fever

The police are too busy! Turn on modern British television and it's wall-to-wall police procedurals, from the light Caribbean fare of Death in Paradise to endless "gritty, harrowing" portrayals of baby killings in miserable, poverty-stricken English ex-mining towns. There are more cops on British TV than in the cafeteria at Scotland Yard.

 

[Miss Tuned]

"BBC World Service" is the international radio network. What David gets on his cable system (and what I get on Spectrum here) is "BBC World News," the television network. I think it's pretty widely available on cable/satellite providers. In the US, it's a commercial service, a joint partnership between BBC Enterprises and one of the US cable channel operators.

There's some talk that the current cutbacks being mulled by the BBC will include merging BBC World News in its various international feeds with BBC News, the UK 24-hour news channel. I hope they don't go that route, though I'd love to have easier access to the domestic BBC News channel that doesn't require puttering around with a VPN.

I'm cynical about the cutbacks announced last week.

Some years ago, the digital station BBC 6 Music (to all intents and purposes an AAA) was hovering around half a million listeners in the British ratings - it was seen as aloof and inaccessible, a little snooty. The BBC threatened to close it - cue a campaign in the British media, with figures from music and entertainment demanding it be saved. It duly stayed on the air, and now has around three million weekly listeners.

Last week, they announced that they were going to move BBC4 (a TV station with highbrow documentaries and musical performances) and BBC Radio 4 Extra (a radio station playing out archive drama from BBC Radio 4) to a non-broadcast online platform. These are both low cost services - both play out archive material and don't originate any of their own - and they don't have their own transmitters to switch off (the UK switched to digital TV years ago, and Radio 4 Extra is on DAB) so no savings there.

They could have announced the closure of Radio 1Xtra (hip-hop and other Black music), the Asian Network (South Asian music and talk) or BBC3 (a youth-focused TV network). All originate programming and would have been a bigger cost saving. But the white, middle-class, English press would have barely batted an eyelid. Instead, they appear to have targeted services consumed by people who also consume the Telegraph or the Times, newspapers that have campaigned for an end to the license fee for many years and have decried the BBC as a "woke" left-wing propaganda operation. This is the BBC saying "we're not Woke FM, we're something for everyone, including you - but we can't be if we have to continually cut back our operations".

 

[Kelly A]

I worry that I will be visited by the Thought Police and sent off to the Soylent Green factory...

And what is Soylent Green?? (******!)

 

[Negin]

And what is Soylent Green?? (******!)

An old movie from the 70s.

 

[Kelly A]

An old movie from the 70s.

No, no, no you missed the line/question. Try again. "Soylent Green is....."

 

[davideduardo]

And what is Soylent Green?? (******!)

A SciFi movie where the sick and elderly are processed into food for the living, with Soylet Green being the newest and most tasty variety.