Bernie Ward Indicted

[9to5er]

Bernie is an awesome talk-radio host. I personally don't appreciate his "perfect world", hate Bush and everything about him philosophy, but Bernie is a very provacative and compelling talk radio host. He is also very successful. He has more 12+ AQH listeners from 10p to 1a than most SF Metro station do during prime. His other show, "God Talk", on Sunday Mornings is extremely popular and as well (12+ Cumes 40K+ from 6a-10a).

While I don't agree with his utopiast political point of view, I believe his story about doing research for a book. He does more for charity than 99% of the people. He has consistently walked the walk... and talked the talk. He is a decent guy and I believe his heart if in the right place. He's just seriously misguided politically, and stupid for doing what he did (he admitted to downloading kiddie porn and forwarded it while doing research for a book).

KGO is doing a good job dealing with this. They are walking a very fine line, and doing a good job of it so far. They are covering it as news, but reserving comment during the talk shows. This station always thrives during controversy and tragedy. They've had their share of it this year (Pete Wilson's unexpected death earlier this year for example). I'm certain howewver, this is not the type of publicity any of them want. They will probably continue to keep Bernie off the air until more details come out. Clearly the best strategy for now. Lucky for them, they have plenty of talent ready to keep the hate Bush San Francisco lefties riled up and tuned in to KGO for yet another 12+ triumph.

 

[ContactLenz]

I do not know Bernie, but one does not have look at child porn to understand it's digusting and deviant nature.

Just like one doesn't need to look at a pair of of smoked charred lungs in this day and age to know smoking causes cancer. And if you do in either case, you are either in total denial, or lack common sense and logic. Either way, I do think his judgement needs to be questioned.

This doesn't automatically make him guilty or a predator, but he is guilty of putting himself in a bad position, which would and will call into question his judgements/decisions in other parts of his life.

Rightly or wrongly..his percpetion to others will forever be changed. I love the Who, but have to admit, I listen to and look at Pete Townshend differently after his issue with child porn.

 

[DavidKaye]

Whether Bernie is guilty or innocent, KGO has no choice but to remove him from the air until this is over. It's too much of a distraction to leave him on the air AND advertisters would depart in a hurry. I'm sure Bernie Ward understands that.

Would the advertisers bolt? The advertisers have contracts. I doubt that there is any "morals clause" in their contracts allowing them to stop advertising.

As for distractions, I don't see how callers would even get on the air. First someone screens the calls. Second, there is a delay. And again, we're not talking about child molestation here; we're talking about having a couple photos on his AOL account -- not even on his computer! We're talking about an almost insignificant event.

 

[Bongwater]

I can understand the reasoning on KGO's part for the suspension if it's with pay and his job is still secure in the meantime until this is over. Right now, Bernie must be having a near meltdown, as anyone would in his situation. If they and his attorney would allow him to call in and explain what is going on and his side of the story and let somebody else watch his back with the harassing callers, I see no problem with it. He has that right. And he doesn't need any more heartache, just the chance to be heard.

But to let him back on as if it were just another night would be asking for trouble. Like I said, there's a lot of hateful people out there with a lot of time on their hands. And they smell blood. You really don't want to put him on the air right now and run the show because as mentioned before, it would distract everybody from the more important issues of the day in the nation and locally in the Bay area and it would only stir it up with those kinds of people. Besides, with an accusation like this hovering over you in the news-even if you are innocent, it would be hard to show your face in public the same way you used to while this is being investigated-if ever again. The looks of certain people with kids, the lousy service, the whispering behind your back. Like I said, you don't even need a conviction, just the accusation. That's unfortunately how many people are. Too much ignorance and not enough common sense.

The emotional agony he's feeling right now must be unbearable.

I knew a guy who was accused of child molestation by a vindictive ex-girlfriend and it made the local paper and TV news. Even when her story completely fell apart in the courtroom and he was accquitted of all charges, he still had to move to another state and start his life all over again. He attempted suicide twice. The ex-girlfriend was never brought to answer for any of it and to this day never served a second in jail for perjury or was made to pay for his relocation. Or back pay for his loss of a job. Or punitive damages for his time in jail. Or the loss of friends with children-even after his accquittal. She completely, mercilessly and thoughtlessly destroyed his life and got away with it scot-free. Where is the justice for HIM?

And where will be the justice for Bernie Ward when proven innocent? Who will be made to pay for the hell they put him through?

 

[SFStatic]

I hope he prevails in court. The sad thing is, this could be a career killer even if he is not guilty. OTOH, Imus seems to be back in the saddle, even though his issue was just in the court of public opinion.

 

[nmoore6676]

If he downloaded to research the issue and wrote his book or whatever then the intelligent action would be to delete the material. If he has ,as alleged, shared the material with other and retained it on his hard drive or other storage media then he may be convicted despite the reason he originally obtained the material. In any event his radio career is likely ended forever as this is a bit more serious than Imus's "NHH" remarks.

My advice is that if you are inclined to kiddie porn to not leave it on an accessible device like the hard drive. Best is to use removable storage and bury it in a coffee can in the back yard. It would also be preferred to use a public WiFi connection so the IP address won't be attributable to you.

 

[Bongwater]

Funny how that is...you can still mock people of different races, but can never survive a bogus allegation of the worst kind, even if proven FALSE.

And this being a career-killer is my worst fear for Bernie if he is proven innocent. Because talk radio is one of those formats where you MUST be 1000% righteous. Unless you're a...no, I'm not going to mention anything further about G. Gordon Liddy. Or Rush Limbaugh. We already know.

Bernie Ward made a accidental mistake that ANYONE researching child pornography could have made. And frankly, the only ones who win in the end are the pedophile pornographers. Because this will now make the subject taboo amongst honest investigative journalists because of what happened to Bernie Ward.

This does not bode well for the rest of us with children of our own. We NEED information. And as much of it as we can get so we can begin active and up-to-date discourse on how to PREVENT it from EVER happening to OUR children.

And what does this say about AOL? Or many internet providers? If I am doing research on certain subjects, I do not want the government to use this against me at THEIR convenience. The internet should be the world's GREATEST library, right in our own homes, 24 hours a day, we can study and exchange ideas and thought without fear of persecution.

Some don't see it that way, they see it as a way to ruin you. THEY are the REAL cyber predators, right along with the child pornographers. Not honest journalists like Bernie Ward....

And no NMoore, even if you erase the hard disk or use removeable storage like a $14 flash drive at Wal-Mart, it can STILL be recovered. Plus IP addresses are STILL recorded and documented because pedophiles change IP addresses often. Burying it in a coffee can in the backyard will only lead to it's eventual discovery. Just match IP with date documents were uploaded to removable media (which all removable media records) and voila! Instant connection to WHO downloaded it.

Best bet is to talk with local law enforcement, tell them what you are doing and forward ALL information you gather to them-preferrably addresses, not actual pictures, NOBODY wants to see THAT. There are cyber detectives in many of your own law enforcement communties who will be happy to work with you and vouch for you if worse comes to worse. In their eyes, they can use as much help from the public as they can get to stop online child predators.

And yes, my name on this board is Bongwater-my law enforcement community knows that and they are actually quite amused, Because I have been one of their biggest helps in dealing with gang problems locally (Can't tell you exactly what I do for a living, but they know me and they don't mind the reference. They have bigger problems these days.) I just want a better, more peaceful world for the rest of us.....

 

[DyingMedium]

C'mon, get real. Clients, for the most part, can and do cancel at anytime...for many different reasons.

It would be a MAJOR distraction for the audience and BW as well - not to mention those he works WITH. Notice he isn't clamoring to be on the air. It's the right decision for everyone...Everyone that listens and everyone that works at KGO, including Bernie Ward.

Would the advertisers bolt? The advertisers have contracts. I doubt that there is any "morals clause" in their contracts allowing them to stop advertising.

As for distractions, I don't see how callers would even get on the air. First someone screens the calls. Second, there is a delay. And again, we're not talking about child molestation here; we're talking about having a couple photos on his AOL account -- not even on his computer! We're talking about an almost insignificant event.

 

[brifi8500]

Well, well, well.

What do we have here.

The way I see it, there are only two viable choices:

1) Bernie was researching a book, and mishandled what is referred to by law enforcement as "strict liability" illegal material.

....or,

2) Bernie had an interest in the aforementioned "strict liability" illegal material, and after having been detected with it, decided to pull the ol' "I'm doing research" routine. That was tried by a journalist nabbed for a similar offense in Washington, D.C. years back. He insisted it was research, yet could not provide any notes or evidence of a report in the making. His broadcasting brethren rushed to his aid trying to make the "free speech/freedom of the press" argument".

Can't remember how that turned out, but I do remember thinking "great argument, wrong case to defend. It was, in my opinion, a BS excuse.

That being said, the fact is, sadly, the internet and all of it's unfettered access has people engaging in all kinds of activities that they would otherwise not be tempted to involve themselves in. That includes viewing child pornography. After hearing/reading about countless "good guys" who find themselves locked up for 20 years for clicking on and saving a digital picture, you do start to wonder if this is about child safety....or a witch hunt of sorts.

I read an article not long ago about an individual who enjoyed looking at regular adult porn, and he eventually, after clicking from link to link to link, found himself viewing (for free, mind you) material that could only be described as illegal. The guy never bought or traded a photo, never touched a child, yet after some of this material was discovered on his PC, he was in the news, before a judge and branded for life.

All very sad indeed.

How to solve this problem is anyone's guess.

Unfortunately, until we find a way to stop people from taking drugs, we won't have much of a shot at stopping people from viewing illegal material, especially since it is so easily delivered the their computer monitor. Demand is a bitch.

Admittedly, it is difficult to watch someone on the verge of going down in flames like this, but if convicted, Bernie would not be the first, nor anywhere even remotely close to being the last.

All things considered, and to be on the safe side, it would probably be wise to get your adult entertainment fix from somewhere other than the electronic wild, wild west, a/k/a, the masturbation superhighway.

 

[nmoore6676]

Funny how that is...you can still mock people of different races, but can never survive a bogus allegation of the worst kind, even if proven FALSE.

And this being a career-killer is my worst fear for Bernie if he is proven innocent. Because talk radio is one of those formats where you MUST be 1000% righteous. Unless you're a...no, I'm not going to mention anything further about G. Gordon Liddy. Or Rush Limbaugh. We already know.

Bernie Ward made a accidental mistake that ANYONE researching child pornography could have made. And frankly, the only ones who win in the end are the pedophile pornographers. Because this will now make the subject taboo amongst honest investigative journalists because of what happened to Bernie Ward.

This does not bode well for the rest of us with children of our own. We NEED information. And as much of it as we can get so we can begin active and up-to-date discourse on how to PREVENT it from EVER happening to OUR children.

And what does this say about AOL? Or many internet providers? If I am doing research on certain subjects, I do not want the government to use this against me at THEIR convenience. The internet should be the world's GREATEST library, right in our own homes, 24 hours a day, we can study and exchange ideas and thought without fear of persecution.

Some don't see it that way, they see it as a way to ruin you. THEY are the REAL cyber predators, right along with the child pornographers. Not honest journalists like Bernie Ward....

And no NMoore, even if you erase the hard disk or use removeable storage like a $14 flash drive at Wal-Mart, it can STILL be recovered. Plus IP addresses are STILL recorded and documented because pedophiles change IP addresses often. Burying it in a coffee can in the backyard will only lead to it's eventual discovery. Just match IP with date documents were uploaded to removable media (which all removable media records) and voila! Instant connection to WHO downloaded it.

Best bet is to talk with local law enforcement, tell them what you are doing and forward ALL information you gather to them-preferrably addresses, not actual pictures, NOBODY wants to see THAT. There are cyber detectives in many of your own law enforcement communties who will be happy to work with you and vouch for you if worse comes to worse. In their eyes, they can use as much help from the public as they can get to stop online child predators.

And yes, my name on this board is Bongwater-my law enforcement community knows that and they are actually quite amused, Because I have been one of their biggest helps in dealing with gang problems locally (Can't tell you exactly what I do for a living, but they know me and they don't mind the reference. They have bigger problems these days.) I just want a better, more peaceful world for the rest of us.....

My how to remarks were tongue in cheek, I do not advocate nor support the viewing or possession of child pornography. However your remarks are not entirely correct either. Anyone who uses dynamic addresses gets or can get a new "IP" address daily. Going through a wireless port would not single out your computer unless the operator keeps some logs of the computers logged in. Using a neighbors unsecured Wireless (most are in my neighborhood) would work. Recovering erased data from a hard drive is not as easy as it looks on CSI. My main point was that people who do such things are stupid enough to leave it on their computers and even worse computers they use at work that don't belong to them. Even though these stories are in the news with some regularity they keep downloading and hitting the save button.

Back to the central issue, according to the allegations Mr. Ward did more than view for research, he downloaded, and transmitted the images and whatever else he got. The veracity of all of this will be in the hands of a jury.

The government might have a vendetta against Mr. Ward, but I doubt it, he is little known outside of San Francisco or California. San Francisco is know for the more liberal bent in politics and lifestyle so he would not stand out as much as say in Atlanta, though not likely he would even get on the air there. Then there is the theory that Citadel might have wanted him off, but easier to just fire him without the federal authorities to start the process.

The fact that win lose or draw that his career is destroyed is true, however nobody told him to embark on this cockamamie project. And I do not know if the police would have given him a free pass, though they might have if he had asked, which he didn't. It is tragic to see anyone lose what they have devoted their lives to so I am sympathetic to Mr. Ward. I am not one of the vultures chortling in glee because of this horrible situation.

My cynical nature would question what you might find on some of the federal prosecutors' hard drives. Remember the Orange County California Judge Ronald Klein case?

 

[LKellerIII]

"The government might have a vendetta against Mr. Ward, but I doubt it, he is little known outside of San Francisco or California. San Francisco is know for the more liberal bent in politics and lifestyle so he would not stand out as much as say in Atlanta, though not likely he would even get on the air there. Then there is the theory that Citadel might have wanted him off, but easier to just fire him without the federal authorities to start the process."

 

[LKellerIII]

"The government might have a vendetta against Mr. Ward, but I doubt it, he is little known outside of San Francisco or California. San Francisco is know for the more liberal bent in politics and lifestyle so he would not stand out as much as say in Atlanta, though not likely he would even get on the air there. Then there is the theory that Citadel might have wanted him off, but easier to just fire him without the federal authorities to start the process."

Somehow I posted that before I could add a comment:

Agreed - I knew conspiracy theories about this would pop up - any suggestion that this is a Bush justice department vendetta against a liberal talk host is just a liberal conceit. Ward is a local talk host in a liberal region - primarily "preaching to the choir." San Franciscan's have always had an exaggerated sense of their own importance and influence, politically speaking.

I guess you COULD ask the question - would they be going ahead with the indictment if the defendant was a nationally known conservative talk host. I think the Justice dept might have been more likely to accept the explanation Ward gave if this was the case.

 

[cm454]

I guess you COULD ask the question - would they be going ahead with the indictment if the defendant was a nationally known conservative talk host. I think the Justice dept might have been more likely to accept the explanation Ward gave if this was the case.

...like if he had been caught doing a little shoe tapping in an airport bathroom? Then he'd have Sean Hannity and his ilk doing his bidding.

 

[nmoore6676]

There was the Oxycontin case with Rush and also the Viagra prescription in another name issue as well. Of course that pales in comparison so your point is well taken. I think what worries me them most and transcends the plight of Mr. Ward is the level of surveillance that made this possible. If this was a one time or short term thing then how did he get flagged when apparently there is so much exchange of this type of material on the net? That does open the conspiracy concept, doesn't it? With the Judge Klein case I cited, it only came to light because one of those viglilante groups that attempt to expose pedophiles got him into a chat and the police searched his computers. Later some of that evidence was proven to have been obtained illegally and he got off the major charges.

Politically I am more aligned with the Libertarians than either of the two extremes in American politics so while I want to protect the innocent and apprehend the guilty I am greatly concerned about what has occurred here. I guess I prefer the Lone Ranger or maybe even the Elliot Ness of "The untouchables" over the Bush run Department of Justice.

 

[DaleGriffin]

What kills me here is-

The left defends Ward and trashes Sen. Craig and the right criticizes them for defending Ward and trashign Craig.

Meanwhile the right defends Craig and trashes Ward while the left criticizes the right for defending Craig and trashes Ward.

The fact is Craig and Ward are probably guilty and if you removed the political issues we would all hate both of them, because they are probably trash.

 

[nmoore6676]

What kills me here is-

The left defends Ward and trashes Sen. Craig and the right criticizes them for defending Ward and trashign Craig.

Meanwhile the right defends Craig and trashes Ward while the left criticizes the right for defending Craig and trashes Ward.

The fact is Craig and Ward are probably guilty and if you removed the political issues we would all hate both of them, because they are probably trash.

I wouldn't hate either of them but your point about who gets defended by whom is well stated. I believe Senator Craig got more criticism because of his rigorous stance opposing gays and their issues which by any standard smacks of hypocrisy. I do not know enough about Bernie Ward to know if he is guilty of being so two-faced, but I suspect not.

But in any event the good Senator from Idaho plead guilty to a misdemeanor which he sought to reverse when it didn't fade into the background like he had hoped. Mr. Ward had yet to be proven guilty by the process of law, he has just been indicted. I doubt he will get an opportunity to plead on a misdemeanor but he might do a plea down to avoid jail time if he is in fact guilty and even unfortunately if it was merely an episode of poor judgment.

An in any outcome it remains extremely unlikely he will ever be offered a microphone again, that is the real cost of a lapse in judgment and yet I remain more concerned with the level of surveillance which nabbed him. With what I perceive as the great volume of traffic of this nature going on, why this one man? One of those unnoticed guys may well be the next headline when an unfortunate child turns up missing. I would prefer the effort being put out to charge an innocuous, but higher profile talk show host who is not likely to molest anyone be directed to the real dangerous miscreants out there.

 

[DaleGriffin]

It is not like they said "hmmmm should we go after real criminals or this talk show host?" I really could care less if this is a lapse of judgement or research or intentional, fact is IF he downloaded and transmitted child porn he is a montser. I could care less if hes gonna molest again or look again, one crime is enough for punishment. For those of you that will miss his talk show or are upset about the policing efforts to get this guy I ask this question-

If this was your neighbor, a teacher at your kid's school or a freind of your kid's father instead of a talk show host, would you be attempting to minimize this? If no, right on and look in the mirror and ask why this instance is different, if yes then you are sick.

If Joe Six Pack does this, he is an animal and should be hammered. If Johnny Talk Show Host I like does it, he deserves understanding. Ridiculous.

 

[LKellerIII]

"...IF he downloaded and transmitted child porn he is a montser. I could care less if hes gonna molest again or look again, one crime is enough for punishment. For those of you that will miss his talk show or are upset about the policing efforts to get this guy I ask this question- If this was your neighbor, a teacher at your kid's school or a freind of your kid's father instead of a talk show host, would you be attempting to minimize this? If no, right on and look in the mirror and ask why this instance is different, if yes then you are sick. If Joe Six Pack does this, he is an animal and should be hammered. If Johnny Talk Show Host I like does it, he deserves understanding. Ridiculous."

Whoa. I think we need to step back for a minute. I don't think anybody here is trying to minimize this. I am not particularly a fan of Ward's - my politics are more moderate than Bernie's, though I often like talk hosts with more conservative, or more liberal views than myself. But I don't enjoy Bernie's style, or his grating voice. I much preferred Michael Krasny (Bernie's predecessor on KGO) in that time slot.

In this cable-TV crime obsessed world of rabble-rousing anchor-hosts like Nancy Grace, we've gotten in the habit of throwing presumption of innocence out the window. I know we're not obligated to presume his innocence - that obligation is for his jury, if it gets to trial. Still...shouldn't we wait until we hear more before we assume he's a "monster?"

Remember the McMartin pre-school hysteria? EVERYBODY assumed that poor family was guilty because "kids don't lie," and both the mother and son we're kind of creepy looking! It was a witch-hunt and a media circus.

I knew a young couple that ran a pre-school in Marin County around that time, and they were caught up in this same hysteria. They had also been accused of molesting children - without proof- as it turns out. They were not tried, but their business was ruined, and they had to leave the area.

Hysteria is understandable - it's a very emotional issue. I've raised two kids, now adults. If either of them had been molested, and a person had been arrested for the crime, I'm sure I would have gone nuts and would have wanted to kill the guy. But that doesn't make it right. In this case, we shouldn't rationalize or make excuses for Ward, but I think we need to step back and reserve judgment

 

[nmoore6676]

Nothing in this case says that there was any molestation and nobody has rendered a verdict. Not even all of the facts are known and will not be until and if there is a trial. My point is that apparently they can not catch or even get an idea of the ones who do actual harm. Just possessing the material is despicable but not threatening anybody's children in and of itself.

Maybe the fact that his career is ruined should be the only punishment unless and until someone can show he might have the urge to act out on a fantasy that no one can even say he had.

By the way I wish someone would indict Nancy Grace for being an obnoxious idiot. ;D

 

[RadioStarOne]

Time to get real he really ruffled someones feathers! Three years for an indictment to be handed down is a real stretch to say the least! KGO is about to crumble into the dust of ages. Ray is already pulling his punches too! The rest will follow soon enough! And Citadel is going to take a bath on this purchase of the ABC radio stations! Maybe KTRB's time in the sun is upon us?