Best Buy's new HD Radio Shelf System

[Mike Walker]

rbrucecarter, with all due respect I'm pretty sure your 49 dollar unit doesn't play DVD, doesn't play mp3, doesn't play wma, doesn't have an Ipod dock, and finally (whether YOU like it or not) doesn't have HD. Talk about apples and oranges. Check out prices for comparable "executive shelf system"-type devices. This is a VERY low price for a proven market segment. I have no idea how it sounds, but if it doesn't suck it's an amazing price point. So is the 89 dollar Dual car stereo.

These things are getting down (in price) to the point now where it's difficult for any serious person to claim that HD adds much of anything to the bottom line. Tee hee!

 

[Chuck]

Chuck of course it's not a high-end audio component! Who here was arguing that it is? It's a very convenient piece of inexpensive gear, the kind that real people buy. And the amplifier is almost certainly good enough, with low enough noise and distortion for anybody but a head-banger to listen to in a small room, or on a desktop. After all, the desktop, just a couple of feet from the speakers, is where these "executive"-type systems are designed to be heard.

You guys seem to be under the impression that Insignia/Best Buy claimed there was a Krell under the hood. In actuality, they actually made the amplifier seem to be WORSE than it probably is.

Actually, I think I was pointing out that their spec. is probably honest. It is in the same league with a lot of other stuff in this price range.

I would like to know what happened to the old Federal Trade Commission rules that required amplifiers to be rated in RMS wattage, at a given impedance from 20-20KHz? Remember in the 70's there were tons of 100 watt "Peak Music Power" amplifiers out there that were really good for an honest 5-10 watts. The FTC intervened and required very strict advertising standards regarding power claims. It seems those standards went out the window a number of years ago.

In any case, there are a currently lot of bogus claims out there regarding audio equipment.

 

[Mike Walker]

Taking one step further down this road (YES I remember "300 watt peak power", isn't it interesting that the standard measurement for power is continuous tones, but music is not continuous, but transient in nature? Our test material doesn't resemble what we listen to in the least! And if it does mimic what you listen to, then please don't invite me to a listening session at your house

 

[hipporadio]

This product “just happens to have HD”... It’s NOT like Breast Buy “phoned home” to RedSun of China [or its ilk] and said: “Make me an HD radio that also handles a DVD.” This is CLEARLY an offering awaiting a badge. It may-well be an “OK” product; but I’m somewhat-amused that the very-second some insignificant debut [such as this] makes its way to a retail chain famous for displaying HD radios from “name” manufacturers WITHOUT an antenna connected – the HD enthusiasts here do a celebratory “Wedding Dance”!

Now please explain WHY the likes of Yamaha chooses to include HD in ONLY its morbidly-expensive surround-sound receiver that also-features EVERY-OTHER current capability [including XM HD] and why I CAN’T find an HD-icon on ANY Sony LIVING-ROOM receiver—ONLY on a table radio that will likely be outsold by the better-value Sangean WR-2?

Our firm’s clientele includes over A DOZEN major retailers AND MANUFACTURERS of consumer electronics... We CONSTANTLY survey the “plain ‘ole folks”; and guess-what... “HD-capability” [sorry about the oxymoron] RANKS DEAD LAST in broad-brush consumer interest—BEHIND even an affinity for “good AM reception and audio quality”!!!... C Crane appears successful in serving that market.

PLEASE preserve YOUR sensibilities and DO NOT believe that a low-brow 10% THD, 200-20,000 Hz MULTI-option appearance at a retail chain that routinely-allowed dust to gather on its Boston Acoustics HD Receptor radios is NOW ON-BOARD with the HD pom-poms waving.

 

[Fieldtech1]

Hippo, I think the point everybody is making is that this is a product people will stumble upon, because of its multifunction capability, not necessarily HD. It is a move in the right direction for HD radio on FM as most consumers wont buy a Sangean or Boston Acoustics "table radio" thats only function is radio. Bottom line this unit will find its ways into many dorm rooms, bedrooms, offices, kitchens ect and people will likely discover HD2 stations on it.

 

[hipporadio]

I just accessed our company database: “market-share—INSIGNIA”... 0.2 PERCENT! IF a consumer's likihood to “stumbe-upon” this product represents a winning lottery ticket for the mass-market promotion of HD Radio, I’ll need-remind you of your chances of scoring the Power-Ball at your local Gas ‘n Go! Now WHAT does a ZERO-TWO mean to you corporate radio types? ...BOTTOM-FEEDER

 

[Radioman100]

PLEASE preserve YOUR sensibilities and DO NOT believe that a low-brow 10% THD, 200-20,000 Hz MULTI-option appearance at a retail chain that routinely-allowed dust to gather on its Boston Acoustics HD Receptor radios is NOW ON-BOARD with the HD pom-poms waving.

So why else would they have a display set up where they are demoing several HD options from different manufacturers, including the JVC converter unit that isn't even available on their website?

 

[LinoNYC]

This product “just happens to have HD”... It’s NOT like Breast Buy “phoned home” to RedSun of China [or its ilk] and said: “Make me an HD radio that also handles a DVD.” This is CLEARLY an offering awaiting a badge. It may-well be an “OK” product; but I’m somewhat-amused that the very-second some insignificant debut [such as this] makes its way to a retail chain famous for displaying HD radios from “name” manufacturers WITHOUT an antenna connected – the HD enthusiasts here do a celebratory “Wedding Dance”!

You really are getting desperate and frustrated.

What we are seeing is the normal product cycle: initial offerings over priced and underperforming followed by refinements, lower cost with the technology integrated into a wider range of products.

Alas, next year it only gets "worse" with the introduction of much more efficient chips.

The debate is over, now it's up to the marketplace

Your name "hippo" reminds me of childhood visits to the Central Park Zoo, the hippos there would bang their heads against the doors when they wanted to go inside for the night.

Happy banging, Hippo!


Lino

 

[JohnnyElectron]

The specs for the Dual HD car radio are disapointing, if accurate. It lists AM frequency response for HD at 4.4KHz ???!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

rbrucecarter, with all due respect I'm pretty sure your 49 dollar unit doesn't play DVD, doesn't play mp3, doesn't play wma, doesn't have an Ipod dock, and finally (whether YOU like it or not) doesn't have HD. Talk about apples and oranges. Check out prices for comparable "executive shelf system"-type devices. This is a VERY low price for a proven market segment. I have no idea how it sounds, but if it doesn't suck it's an amazing price point. So is the 89 dollar Dual car stereo.

These things are getting down (in price) to the point now where it's difficult for any serious person to claim that HD adds much of anything to the bottom line. Tee hee!

Well, since the thing is used in the garage now - because I vintage FM tuner / receiver setups elsewhere in the house - I don't really care about all those other capabilities. I usually set the computer to stream one of the thousands of stations streaming audio - run it into one of those little FM modulators, and listen to the exact station I want to. Not exactly convenient to run up to the computer to re-tune, but broadband wireless internet radios are probably just around the corner. Now I would DEFINITELY pay $150 for a radio that would access streaming audio from thousands of stations via wireless broadband!!!

As for executive systems, I work for an engineering company. Most executives around here utilize classic audio receivers from the 70's, because they are dirt cheap at garage sales and on eBay, and are sensitive enough with a dipole to bring in local stations in a steel constructed building. Most people I know are happy enough to get any local stations at all - given the attenuation of the building. HD? MIA around here. Impossible to get inside the building - for the one or two people I talk to that actually know anything about it. And my company makes a chipset for HD!

 

[Savage]

"Closed circuit" for Hippoman, which isn't really "closed" since it would be cool to share with others on this board: let me/us know what you think of "George," the high-end "radio" from Chestnut Hill Audio, since you're professionally "tuned into" new consumer gear (so to speak.)

 

[Mike Walker]

rbrucecarter, I DIDN'T NAME THEM "Executive Systems". That's just what they're called. It may be that postal workers are the primary market. For goodness sake! Talk about nitpicking!

As for Insignia having .2 percent market share, er, that's of WHICH MARKET, and how does it compare with, say, Cambridge Soundworks, Tivoli, Sanyo, Sangean, etc.? There are THOUSANDS of brands (of consumer electronics) out there, from Wal Mart junk, to custom high-end. .2 percent isn't necessarily a bad thing. More important, what percentage of BEST BUY'S sales does Insignia represent? Their little video-equipped flash-based mp3 player is VERY well received on the tubular interweb, and it's a damn nice unit. I thought long and hard about buying it, until I discovered that the Sandisk e250 can run "Rockbox".

If Best Buy wasn't able to sell them (electronics items with the Insignia brand), they sure as hell wouldn't be selling them. And the Insignia brand is growing, not shrinking. Grasping at straws, are we?

 

[Chuck]

Now I would DEFINITELY pay $150 for a radio that would access streaming audio from thousands of stations via wireless broadband!!!

You can buy a Soundbridge Internet tuner for as little as $100. I’ve had one for over a year, and it works great. It even has a wireless Internet card that seeks any normal wi-fi connection. If you don't have a wireless system in your house, you can just plug it in to a normal Ethernet port. Either way, it works fine and is very easy to use. It even has a wireless remote control so you can change stations from your easy chair.

It is just a tuner, so amp and speakers are extra, but I'll bet that the next generation stuff will be truly portable. It's coming. The RIAA did not kill Internet radio, despite reports to the contrary.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

You can buy a Soundbridge Internet tuner for as little as $100. I’ve had one for over a year, and it works great. It even has a wireless Internet card that seeks any normal wi-fi connection. If you don't have a wireless system in your house, you can just plug it in to a normal Ethernet port. Either way, it works fine and is very easy to use. It even has a wireless remote control so you can change stations from your easy chair.

It is just a tuner, so amp and speakers are extra, but I'll bet that the next generation stuff will be truly portable. It's coming. The RIAA did not kill Internet radio, despite reports to the contrary.

There is the nail in the coffin for IBOC, right there. Not only do you get thousands of stations instead of a dozen or two HD-2 channels (if you have a deep fringe antenna). The ethernet / wireless option effectively captures the listeners in the office. And - the tuner is cheaper than most HD radios.

The marketplace is sure as HEAVEN going to speak. And HD won't be the choice when portable internet radios become widely available.

 

[Mike Walker]

Apples and oranges. I listen to internet radio too, but it'a hardly free. A broadband connection costs what, 50 bucks a month? And then you can only listen where there's internet/wi-fi access.

RADIO on the other hand works anywhere within range of the station. Like in the car, where most listening is done. Apples and oranges.

"Nail in the coffin"...mighty big talk about the medium with the lion's share of the audience...more than 260 MILLION Americans every week (out of 300 million). Media is transitioning to digital in a number of ways. HD is only one of the ways radio stations are distributing their programming digitally there's webcasting (far from being separate from terrestrial radio, many of the most listened too offerings ARE terrestrial stations), and podcasting (great for regular shows, like "Car Talk", "A Prarie Home Companion", "What do you know?", as well as local news, etc.) to name just a couple.

Smart stations don't use just one method, they embrace them all.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

"Nail in the coffin"...mighty big talk about the medium with the lion's share of the audience...more than 260 MILLION Americans every week (out of 300 million).
Smart stations don't use just one method, they embrace them all.

NOT of radio. Of HD ---

As for smart stations - they don't make their audio sound like garbage to 99.95% of their listeners for the sake of the other 0.05%. People have a tendency not to listen to stations that have hiss in their audio or that sound like telephone quality audio. They will tend to listen to something that sounds decent. I sure vote with my pushbuttons - we have several talk stations that use HD here - my preset is on the one that doesn't, because I can understand the speech better.

 

[Radioman100]

There is the nail in the coffin for IBOC, right there. Not only do you get thousands of stations instead of a dozen or two HD-2 channels (if you have a deep fringe antenna). The ethernet / wireless option effectively captures the listeners in the office. And - the tuner is cheaper than most HD radios.

The marketplace is sure as HEAVEN going to speak. And HD won't be the choice when portable internet radios become widely available.

Nail in the coffin for IBOC? Yeah right!

This entire thread is about a new, reasonably priced shelf system that just happens to include HD Radio. The kind of device that will allow people to discover HD Radio. Do you think they'll just tune right past all the HD stations they encounter on this and all the similar devices that are coming out? If someone's favorite song is playing on an HD2 channel, they'll just tune past it quickly, remembering that they can go out and buy an internet radio appliance?

And do you really think businesses are going to provide bandwidth just for their employee's entertainment? You've obviously never met an average IT guy! They obsess with getting the best performance out of their networks and locking them down to keep things like this from happening. Why would a company want to use their switches, routers and firewalls, not to mention internet bandwidth for actual business when they could use it to power their employee's Bavarian salsa rap fetish? Wireless connection? Forget Sarbanes-Oxley! We have internet radios to power!

 

[Bob Young]

If this new thing includes IBOC receive capability, that's kind of like a CD player with 8 track capability isn't it? Do you think people will even know it's there or even care, especially when they realize how bad the reception is? I guess the iBlock alliance will stop at nothing to try to trick people into buying their flawed technology.

 

[clouseau]

If this new thing includes IBOC receive capability, that's kind of like a CD player with 8 track capability isn't it? Do you think people will even know it's there or even care, especially when they realize how bad the reception is? I guess the iBlock alliance will stop at nothing to try to trick people into buying their flawed technology.

You're probably right, Bob. This product is just another mistake by the HD Radio Alliance. Who would want economical integrated systems. Clearly they should only allow radios which cost several hundred dollars and have nothing else in them to be sold. Maybe they should make the HD AM and the HD FM be seperate components as well.

To your credit, you also got an "IBLOCK", a "Flawed Technology" and a "Trick People" in there as well.

Next time, for added effect, don't forget the "Steaming Pile".

Clouseau

 

[wgliradio]

Let's not get carried away. This is Insignia... a store brand. You shouldn't expect too much from anything they put out. More than likely

1) The display will be dead within 6 months
2) The CD/DVD/MP3 drive will no longer read disks within 2 months
3) The left channel will crap within a year.

This is why you don't buy Dual, Insignia, GPX, Coby, Accurian (oops!), Emerson, Electro Brand, Jensen, Audiovox, Soundesign etc etc