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Best Dance Show in the US!!

> Aubrey "If you don't know me by now".
>
> Roc Project "Never" Johnny Budz remix
>
> I consider those songs to be an update of freestyle.

I would tend to agree with that. Plus both were done by Johnny Budz
 
Re: Your smarter than this

Critisism is fine, as long as it's factual. I have an issue with this statement you made which is not totally factual, "Robbins just distributes other people's music and markets them. Robbins doesn't MAKE the music."

While a large part of our business is licensing music from overseas, it's not the only thing we do. We do "MAKE" music as well. From the first record we put out 10 years ago right up to our latest batch of releases.

As for licensing, almost every dance label is in the licensing game. And most license far more than we do. We just happen to pick the winners. ;)

As for why we licence so many tracks from overseas, we go to the source of great dance tracks. At this point in time, those seem to be coming more from overseas than the US. Artists from overseas go to their local record companies to get signed. So we are left with no choice but to sign from outside the US. But when something hits, we have a very large part of making the album for the artist. There are also artists that we have signed for the world that we have guided in making the records that we put out.

That was really my point.

As for the nice comments that people say about the label, that's cool. It's better than them hating us. Can we do no wrong? Of course that isn't true but we are showing people what can be done if you understand the rules of the game and give the people something that they might actually relate to.

jp
 
Re: Okay, this is really starting to get to me

Oh brother... I think everyone is speaking from different contexts and getting worked up about it. This was NEVER an attack on Oakenfold and Digweed. I think I can safely vouch for myself, MLII, and others by saying that we have a tremendous amount of respect for what they do. But what they do is success for the nightclub and concert arena scene. We were talking from an AMERICAN COMMERCIAL RADIO viewpoint.

For radio, IT'S NOT THE DIE-HARD FANS THEY ARE INTERESTED IN. It's the GREATEST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THEY COULD REACH. Period. Advertisers DEMAND familiarity and mass appeal on the airwaves, not ultra-niche formats that serve a few die-hard fans. Millions of dollars are at stake!

Like it or not, DJ Sammy MOST DEFINITELY brought in numbers that stations could quantify for $$$, and opened up more programmers to the possibilities of dance music. That DJ Sammy track opened up greater chances of them even bringing in mixshows such as "Paul Oakenfold Presents" or even "RadioMixes Electronica" or "RadioMixes Dance". THAT DJ Sammy track, though some people consider them cheese (which is their right to say), greatly enhanced the chances for dance music on the radio.

Yes, there are too many closed-minded programmers and group executives out there. We could all agree on that.

MidwestClubber, your proposal for an underground dance radio station with mostly underground and electronica mixshows throughout the day will ULTIMATELY fail. It is way too niched. There is NO WAY that you could build cume on that model. There is absolutely NO WAY that you could attract advertisers to buy spots on a station based on that model. Even David Eduardo and MusicloverII will wholeheartedly agree on that. Radio, believe it or not, is NOT about breaking new music and genres. It's about MAKING MONEY. And before anyone waxes how radio should or should not be something, you are just barking up a tree with no branches until you could prove that it will bring in the $$$.

Go ask Sirius about how popular their REMIX channel was, then find out which of their channels are bringing in the most listeners, and you'll see my point. Their biggest music channels are still MASS APPEAL. Ask any radio programmer. They want HITS, and only the HITS.

Again, if a radio station does air Oakenfold, Tiesto, or other electronica mixes then the dance radio supporters here should all applaud them and support them. ANY form of dance music on the radio helps the dance music industry. And these programmers should be appreciated because they do have an open mind.

But honestly, if you go to the majority of radio programmers and group executives in America by promoting dance music strictly from the Oakenfold/Digweed/Electronica angle, then the chances are more than great that you're going to be shown the door. That's a fact. Now if you could present a more balanced presentation of dance hits and throwing on an electronica mixshow in the overnights or weekends, then you'll have a slightly better chance. Your chances increased because you are potentially giving them HITS.

Regarding playing 7 minute versions of tracks: There is a reason why 98.5% of the hits in the past several decades have an average runtime of 3:30. Listeners have no patience for long songs. And believe it or not, they will have NO patience for 7 minutes of instrumental and pounding beats. There had better be a vocal or hook that the listeners could identify with, so they could run out and go easily buy the track at the store or on iTunes.

Mylo doesn't have vocals? That's news to me. "I just don't know... Doc-doc-doc-doctor beat!" That song has LOTS of familiarity to it, thanks to Miami Sound Machine.

NO-- mainstream dance is not all female-cheesy vocals. Yes, they have dominated it for the past few years, but there are great male-oriented tracks out there that would work as well. A good programmer recognizes this and balances out the station playlist accordingly, even by pulling in records that cross over from pop, rock, and hip-hop. And before you pure-dance radio station fanatics scream bloody murder about putting an Usher or Chris Brown track in rotation, stop where you are and save the argument for another thread.

TYING THIS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC... it's great for dance music that a freestyle show is developed for radio. Will it ultimately succeed? Depends on the market. But don't believe for one second that the show will spark a revolution of dance music on the national airwaves. And don't believe that "Paul Oakenfold Presents", "RadioMixes Electronica", or other electronica/underground dance shows will spark a national revolution either. If you do, then you really don't understand radio.<P ID="signature">______________
radioinfosignature.gif
</P>
 
> > > > > Some of you might feel different as to what I'm
> about
> > to
> > >
> > > > > say.The truth is the truth.If you are in the NY
> > > Tri-State
> > > >
> > > > > area then you know that freestyle is the sh*t!.I'm
> > > > listening
> > > > > to the freestyle free for all by Judy Torres.When
> > > > freestyle
> > > > > make it's comeback it wil be cause of shows like
> > > > > this.........love you JUDY!
> > > > >
> > > > Unless something weird happened with this weekend's
> > time
> > >
> > > > change, we are in 2006...not 1986! Sorry, I am
> older
> > > (36)
> > > > and grew up on freestyle in the mid and late 80s and
> > loved
> > >
> > > > it (and still do). But to claim it is going to have a
>
> > > huge
> > > > comeback on the current dance scene seems a bit
> > > outlandish.
> > > > As I say, I do still like freestyle, and I agree,
> Judy
> > > > Torres does a great job, but appreciate it for what it
>
> > is;
> > > a
> > > > great time period in dance music. And as much as we
> > loved
> > >
> > > > it back then, I don't see freestyle coming back onto
> the
> >
> > > > current scene anymore than I do disco. Today's dance
>
> > has
> > >
> > > > elements of freestyle (particularly breakbeat stuff),
> > and
> > > it
> > > > is an important part of the history of dance, but
> > today's
> > > > current dance is still based in trance, progressive
> > house,
> > >
> > > > and breaks.
> > >
> > > My post might have been a bit overzealous but it's not
> any
> >
> > > different than those that believe that dance music in
> > > general will be mainstream in the US again.The only
> genre
> > of
> > > dance that has a chance of that wil be anyuthing
> freestyle
> >
> > > derived.Why? It has the most loyal base of fans from
> > Latinos
> > > all over the US and Italians in the Northeast and
> > > Canada.There's also the filipinos in the west and other
> > > ethnic groups like the Greeks,Portugeese etc.Not too
> > mention
> > > that it has become heritage music for these groups and
> > it's
> > > being passed down from generation to generation.The only
>
> > > dance concerts that draw big crowds are the freestyle
> > > concerts.Even the old school perfromers till this day
> are
> > > booked more often that current dance acts.More later
> gotta
> >
> > > go start working....
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > hmm - guess white people don't dance.
> > I liked freestyle - in the 80's. It was great.
> > I've progressed and so has the music.
> >
> Don't be silly.Of course white people dance....look at
> dancing with the stars :)
> I was just pin pointing out the fan base.Let's not get to
> politically correct lol.
>



Hmm - seems as though it's only ok to be politically correct these days towards "minorities" if the topic at hand involves whites being a "majority". I'll leave it at that. (hahaha)
 
Re: Yesterday vs today

DJ Sammy had a solid TOP 10 record on the Billboard HOT 100. How high has Oakenfold gone up that chart? <P ID="signature">______________
Rob Austin
Vice President
JamTraxx Media Inc.
http://www.jamtraxxmedia.com
"Major Market Solutions for Your Radio Station's Needs!"</P>
 
Re: Okay, this is really starting to get to me

> Oh brother... I think everyone is speaking from different
> contexts and getting worked up about it. This was NEVER an
> attack on Oakenfold and Digweed. I think I can safely vouch
> for myself, MLII, and others by saying that we have a
> tremendous amount of respect for what they do. But what they
> do is success for the nightclub and concert arena scene. We
> were talking from an AMERICAN COMMERCIAL RADIO viewpoint.
>
> For radio, IT'S NOT THE DIE-HARD FANS THEY ARE INTERESTED
> IN. It's the GREATEST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THEY COULD REACH.
> Period. Advertisers DEMAND familiarity and mass appeal on
> the airwaves, not ultra-niche formats that serve a few
> die-hard fans. Millions of dollars are at stake!
>
> Like it or not, DJ Sammy MOST DEFINITELY brought in numbers
> that stations could quantify for $$$, and opened up more
> programmers to the possibilities of dance music. That DJ
> Sammy track opened up greater chances of them even bringing
> in mixshows such as "Paul Oakenfold Presents" or even
> "RadioMixes Electronica" or "RadioMixes Dance". THAT DJ
> Sammy track, though some people consider them cheese (which
> is their right to say), greatly enhanced the chances for
> dance music on the radio.
>
> Yes, there are too many closed-minded programmers and group
> executives out there. We could all agree on that.
>
> MidwestClubber, your proposal for an underground dance radio
> station with mostly underground and electronica mixshows
> throughout the day will ULTIMATELY fail. It is way too
> niched. There is NO WAY that you could build cume on that
> model. There is absolutely NO WAY that you could attract
> advertisers to buy spots on a station based on that model.
> Even David Eduardo and MusicloverII will wholeheartedly
> agree on that. Radio, believe it or not, is NOT about
> breaking new music and genres. It's about MAKING MONEY. And
> before anyone waxes how radio should or should not be
> something, you are just barking up a tree with no branches
> until you could prove that it will bring in the $$$.
>
> Go ask Sirius about how popular their REMIX channel was,
> then find out which of their channels are bringing in the
> most listeners, and you'll see my point. Their biggest music
> channels are still MASS APPEAL. Ask any radio programmer.
> They want HITS, and only the HITS.
>
> Again, if a radio station does air Oakenfold, Tiesto, or
> other electronica mixes then the dance radio supporters here
> should all applaud them and support them. ANY form of dance
> music on the radio helps the dance music industry. And these
> programmers should be appreciated because they do have an
> open mind.
>
> But honestly, if you go to the majority of radio programmers
> and group executives in America by promoting dance music
> strictly from the Oakenfold/Digweed/Electronica angle, then
> the chances are more than great that you're going to be
> shown the door. That's a fact. Now if you could present a
> more balanced presentation of dance hits and throwing on an
> electronica mixshow in the overnights or weekends, then
> you'll have a slightly better chance. Your chances increased
> because you are potentially giving them HITS.
>
> Regarding playing 7 minute versions of tracks: There is a
> reason why 98.5% of the hits in the past several decades
> have an average runtime of 3%<P ID="signature">______________
Rob Austin
Vice President
JamTraxx Media Inc.
http://www.jamtraxxmedia.com
"Major Market Solutions for Your Radio Station's Needs!"</P>
 
Re: Okay, this is really starting to get to me

BRAVO! There's room for DJ Sammy and Ferry Corsten at my dinner table. Who's coming? <P ID="signature">______________
Rob Austin
Vice President
JamTraxx Media Inc.
http://www.jamtraxxmedia.com
"Major Market Solutions for Your Radio Station's Needs!"</P>
 
Re: Yesterday vs today

> Even though they're constantly bombarded with both good and
> bad vocal Dance records? Sounds like more of an excuse to
> me.

Agreed. And those same programmers and group execs are also bombarded with both good and bad hip-hop as well. Despite it all, it's a battle to get most programmers to even give dance music a chance. For example: B96 Chicago was very resistant to dance music in its playlist, but Cascada's giant rise in popularity with "Everytime We Touch" inclined them to add it-- even though it almost seems out of place amid all the hip-hop. Now B96 will test Cascada "Miracle" in the next few weeks. If you had approached B96 with an underground dance track, they would laugh behind your back. If you had approaced B96 with an Oakenfold mix, then they MAY have stuck it in the middle of the weekend mixshow-- but it would be treated as a novelty and it wouldn't affect the regular programming of the station. Cascada's "Everytime We Touch" IS affecting the regular programming of the station.

> You mentioned Mylo. His music is actually the type that
> musiclover was bashing. There's no real singing - just loops
> of other songs along with some melodic loops.
> Madonna worked with guys like William Orbit, had Sasha as
> well Above & Beyond remix her records, and recently worked
> with another famous producer who musiclover probably hates.

I highly doubt that MLII hates any of those producers at all. Quite the contrary, I'm sure that he would probably argue that those guys recognize the need to work on mainstream dance records. And I would dare say that he would consider Mylo a mainstream dance hit because of its FAMILIARITY.

> So Tiesto's song "Just Be" is not good for radio, but "Laffy
> Taffy" is. Yeah, okay sure that makes sense.

Didn't say that Tiesto's song isn't good for radio. At the very least, Tiesto released that track with a RADIO EDIT. I believe we were discussing that seven minute instrumentals of the same droning beats just do nothing for commercial radio and influencing them to give dance music a greater chance.

> I know you guys are doing a good job, keep it up :)

Thanks! We really appreciate that!

> > Are we really "hurting the scene" by pushing mainstream,
> > mass appeal dance music over Oakenfold or Digweed mixes? I
> > argue that we are helping to SAVE the scene from extinction
> > on commercial radio.
>
> No way. You're not hurting this scene, but neither are
> Oakenfold and Digweed.

As someone who had involved himself in several aspects of the dance radio industry (on the radio side programming dance stations, and on the record label side promoting dance artists), you probably won't find many greater supporters of Oakenfold and Digweed than me! I was a staunch supporter of SONIC BOOM on Q101, Chicago's alternative station, which aired underground and electronica dance mixes. But the show was canceled two years ago. The PD decided that it no longer fit with the radio station's programming.

From a contemporary hit radio standpoint, and from the context of trying to prove the viability of dance music on the radio, I would choose to go the dance hits direction first because of its greater track record and potential of success.<P ID="signature">______________
radioinfosignature.gif
</P>
 
Re: Yesterday vs today

> This is one of the most retarded statements I've ever seen
> here.
> Who are you to tell a DJ what tracks to play, and how long
> they can play them?

Just remember:

A)You *never* know who you are responding to in a thread. Who are you to question someone's post in such a tone?
B)Keep your "retarded" comments to yourself. You have insulted a family member of mine with your choice of terminology, and myself. Your credebility is Zero in my eyes after that slam.

Composing myself, I can say I think the person you were responding to using your poor choice of words, is speaking "dance" as in radio form, while you are more in the listener, hardcore, category which does not fall in the radio programming scheme.<P ID="signature">______________

"Z"
Music Coordinator/Technical Support</P>
 
Re: Yesterday vs today

> > And I'm telling you, the Paul Oakenfelds, Digweeds
> > and other guys who do nothing but play tracks for nine
> > minutes do more to damage the perceptions of what DANCE is
>
> > than you know. FAR MORE. In fact, I'm headed for a meeting
>
> > now regarding some things involving that. It's great to
> open
> > people's eyes, hopefully it will render results.
> >
>
> This is one of the most retarded statements I've ever seen
> here.
> Who are you to tell a DJ what tracks to play, and how long
> they can play them?
>
> Deep Dish oftentimes play some songs for more then 10 mins,
> so does Tenaglia, and Jonathan Peters sometimes can loop the
> same song for 30 minutes. Go see them spin live and you'll
> see the only "damage" they're doing is on the dancefloor.
>
> At the same time Deep Dish have reached the Top 10 in the UK
> twice last year, as well as many other countries.
>
> Please quit putting the blame on people whom you and others
> are simply jealous of. Their success is well deserved.
>
>
> > Robbins is an example of a label making SONGS with
> > substance.
>
> Robbins just distributes other people's music and markets
> them. Robbins doesn't MAKE the music. Robbins also
> oftentimes has success with artists who rely on Remakes to
> make it big.
>
> If you think DJ Sammy is better for Dance then Paul
> Oakenfold then you're the one whose hurting the scene here.
>
> >Memorable songs not just some pierced freak in a
> > booth grooving to a song no one else knows and only those
> in
> > some trance care to hear.
>
> Maybe we should all just go back to Hillbilly music and
> Adult Standards. Seriously, what kind of close minded crap
> is that? With that attitude Rock & Roll would have never
> taken off, nor Hip Hop.
>

Before this gets ugly, please allow me to point out that the both of you are looking at this from two very different angles. Musiclover is examining this from a radio industry perspective - CHRles, you are defending the position of the hardcore electronic music fan. Oakie, Tenaglia, Donald Glaude and all of those guys are important to dance. They're a valuable part of the dance music and club scene. Oakenfold's show is a very valuable outlet for dance music right now, because he has a high profile name and dance needs as much exposure as it can get. Having said that, let's point out (once again) that what works in the club usually doesn't translate to what works on radio. Years ago you could have made an argument for that (when club DJ's were breaking huge new hits constantly) - but not today. I can't believe how often people confuse that issue, even on this damned board, where it's been pointed out dozens of times. Apples constantly being compared to oranges. Say Digweed releases a new club track, and it's like 13 minutes long, no vocals or chorus or nothing - it goes out to radio and priority DJ's across America... it might surface in some mixshows, but you can't expect Howard Marcus or Andre Ferro to throw the thing into rotation and say, hey this would sound amazing on the dancefloor - let's see how they like it in their car while sitting in gridlock downtown! Music that's produced for the dance floor and music that's produced for radio are two different beasts.

Take Axwell's original "Feel The Vibe" release as an example (one of my favorite songs - still). Great beat, funky vibe, awesome dance track for the club. Mercifully, they did manage to slice it down and get a radio edit of it together, but when they reworked the track to include the Tara McDonald vocals - NOW, you've got something very listenable and hot for radio play. I don't know if I could have listened to the original in rotation several times a day without getting tired of it in a hurry.

A guy like Paul Oakenfold is a high profile DJ, but he produces music mainly with the dance floor in mind - not the radio listener. He has a huge following worldwide, but that doesn't make him mandatory radio play material. Look at the success and following that the Grateful Dead had for years, versus their radio chart success over the same period. You can be big without being on the radio, but just because you're big, doesn't mean that radio needs you, either.
 
Re: Yesterday vs today

>
> Ultimately, it is the pushing of mainstream dance music that
> will help dance radio in the long and short runs. And
> mainstream dance music should be the heavier focus if we are
> to get dance radio bigger exposure in the United States. We
> need to push more MASS APPEAL songs, and although we love
> Oakenfold, Digweed, Tiesto and the such, their mixes are not
> considered mass appeal according to the radio execs. They
> are considered as serving the ultra-niche.
>

JD is right on point here. And I couldn't have said it any better.

Maybe the idea is too abstract - I'd like to try to lay it out in black and white.

You have all these different things out there trying to promote dance music - dance radio, mixshows, clubs, WMC, Ibiza, etc. That's great for dance fans, but are all or any of these things helping dance GROW? Growth is what's needed for survival. Stagnating doesn't offer much promise for the long-term. So how do you grow? Like JD and others have said, it's important - if not KEY - to reach the mainstream audience. That means the CHR listeners, the MTV viewers, etc. The problem is that dance is having a big problem doing just that. WMC and the trendy "image" clubs with fog and lightshows and stuff cater to people who are already dance fans (or those pretending to be). Does anyone honestly think that anyone with no knowledge or interest in dance music will be converted overnight this way? To me, that's like saying country music could win me over if I was dropped off in the middle of some deep south redneck saloon or the world's biggest square dance festival. It's to that degree, that a lot of people have that type of perception for dance.

Dance is capable of winning people over. It just needs the right music that will "click" with the mainstream masses to do so. What's really funny to me, is that "in the beginning", dance and hiphop were closely entwined with one another, before they grew distinctly apart. In recent months, there's been not only "SOS" from Rihanna, but also consider "Lose Control" by Missy Elliot and even "Shake" from Ying Yang - both songs that were uptempo and had distinct electronic elements; both could have been embraced by dance radio, but weren't. Personally, I think those are golden opportunities that can't continue to be missed out on.
 
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