Big changes at KPRC

[petertrip]

Looks like Pat Gray is not on the air anymore.

http://www.bloghouston.net/item/4423

 

[ajhenderson]

What's the deal? Pat is a real talent and a class act.

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas!

 

[ajhenderson]

If they wanted to save a few bucks replacing the talented Gray with mediocre Berry (seeing that there is no reduction in local hosts), they might as well have gone back to syndication for 9-11a and had actual talent in AMD and mid-mornings.

 

[Fo-Fo-Fo-Hye]

I myself questioned that move.... until I took a look at the other (besides 12+) numbers for the show. I would have assumed he would have pulled bigger digits, but it wasn't the case.

 

[TheSpinMan]

His snide sarcastic schtick was getting old, and our surveys showed he was becoming very unpopular with women. I would imagine other advertisers were finding the same, and his numbers reflected what we were seeing in the surveys - a guy with a shrinking audience. Like most local talkers, he is unable to find an audience beyond his angry white male types, and doesn't have the talent to find a way out of that box, surprising given his close relationship with Glen Beck. For the last six months, his show has been a daily tirade against illegal aliens and a lot of it I quite frankly found to be down right racist. The rest of it was mean spirited crap that turns women off. David Gold in Dallas, Gray in Houston, this style of talk is going out the door. It works on a national level for guys like Savage who can attract huge audiences, but in the local markets radio needs to recognize that the audience has become more diverse and they need to start adjusting their venom quotients, especially the stuff targeted at Hispanics. People just don't want to wake up to that crap.

 

[Chatterati]

What kind of surveys do you do SpinMan and who do you do them for?

 

[TheSpinMan]

I work for a national tire company in marketing. We purchase research, do a little ourselves. We are checking to see if talkers are bringing in or driving away people we would consider to be our potential customers. There is a particular audience profile for selling particular kinds of tire deals, and we want to make sure our ad plays are where they belong. We are going through a big demographic change in our demand profile for small truck tires - from good ole boys to Hispanic working class. Needless to say, we are worried about some of the rhetoric we are hearing. We don't expect to reach Hispanics through stations like KPRC, but we also don't want to get identified with some kind of political BS that grows out of some of this extreme rhetoric, where hosts start calling Hispanics "criminals" and "terrorists". It's a valid issue, but radio is a business and we need to make sure that our business realities are in step with what is going on with the program.

I don't know how this Gray thing will play out, but I'll tell you right now from a tire selling perspective I'd be a lot happier with Berry than with Gray as far as my product goes - his postion on this issue differs little from Gray's, but he comes across as a lot less strident. We also like shows that attract women, as another growing demographic is working single moms driving older cars. Working women change tire sets more often for safety as much as wear reasons (men will drive em bare to save a buck), and tend to drive compact cars to which we can sell a lot of tires at a low price point. I think Gray tried to improve himself in that audience demographic by bringing in a female second banana, but it didn't really work, the guy is just too overpowering. I'm sure he's a nice guy who deserves a job, but the business climate in this country is changing and we may see this negatively impacting the local shows if they can't come up with an approach to some of these issues that doesn't have the effect of driving many of their advertisers away.

 

[TheSpinMan]

I myself questioned that move.... until I took a look at the other (besides 12+) numbers for the show. I would have assumed he would have pulled bigger digits, but it wasn't the case.

I think he went too far with the mean-spirited stuff and turned off a lot of people. I know in my own morning drive I switched from Gray to William Bennet's show on 1070 so I could hear serious discussion of the issues instead of a guy who sounded like a Party Block Captain ranting about Mexicans every morning. There wasn't much serious debate going on, it all seemed like a snide joke show for rightwing insiders. I don't know about other people, but I have a hard time listening to someone first thing in the morning who is pissed off about something every morning.

 

[houstonray]

That's what turned me off of him as well. Going to work in the morning, i'd like to hear some serious news or serious discussion of issues from all points of view, not just his. If you disagreed with him, he went off on you, screaming and yelling. Good lord, as SpinMan said, I don't want to tune it to hear someone screaming and ranting and being pissed off that early in the morning. I see Pat has a website, his name at dot com. Says he's coming to another radio station soon. Wouldn't he have a non compete clause? Or is he maybe going out of town?

 

[ajhenderson]

If you want to target women, advertise on KODA. This vaginization of the entire world is pissing me off. The business climate changes you speak of dictate that the "is it raining where you are?" type of talk is out, and exciting talk that offends some people is in (see: KNTH ratings). I don't live in Houston and only heard Pat enough to make a talent judgment, but if the Hispanics are so offended there are more than a dozen stations in the market for them. Get a grip.

 

[TheSpinMan]

I think you missed the part of my post where I said we realized that KPRC attracted zero point something Hispanic listeners. The concern is more along the line of not being indentified with talk radio that goes beyond a rational discussion of the issue and into anti-Hispanic rants that seem to be targeted at them as people. We just don't want the potential boycott and bad press hassles, and the nasty letters that come to us and not to the rep or the station accusing us of wanting to sell our product only to white people. I personally think it is a bad issue for Texas. A large number of people here are interelated or are the children of people who may not have come here legally. White talk show hosts are blind to the consequences of some of the rhetoric they are spouting at these people.

Women listen to all kinds of stations, as there are all kinds of women, which is why we advertise on all kinds of stations. But women are also more turned off by the snide and snarly stuff. Pat just couldn't figure out how to work that demographic. Get a clue.

 

[TheSpinMan]

That's what turned me off of him as well. Going to work in the morning, i'd like to hear some serious news or serious discussion of issues from all points of view, not just his. If you disagreed with him, he went off on you, screaming and yelling. Good lord, as SpinMan said, I don't want to tune it to hear someone screaming and ranting and being pissed off that early in the morning. I see Pat has a website, his name at dot com. Says he's coming to another radio station soon. Wouldn't he have a non compete clause? Or is he maybe going out of town?

I'm surprised he made it work for so long. I also had a feeling that once Beck was pushed off the day schedule Pat wouldn't be far behind.

 

[TheSpinMan]

I myself questioned that move.... until I took a look at the other (besides 12+) numbers for the show. I would have assumed he would have pulled bigger digits, but it wasn't the case.

I wonder what's up with the no-announcement and the erasure of the guy from KPRC's website without comment? Looks like he got the boot over something. I doubt if it was just the bad numbers, bad numbers usually result in a civil parting among friends. Somebody made some enemies somewhere. I haven't listened to his show lately. I wonder if the Kramer meme caused him to use the same derogatory approach he was using on the Hispanics on black people? Did he cross the line somewhere?

 

[ajhenderson]

I think you missed the part of my post where I said we realized that KPRC attracted zero point something Hispanic listeners. The concern is more along the line of not being indentified with talk radio that goes beyond a rational discussion of the issue and into anti-Hispanic rants that seem to be targeted at them as people. We just don't want the potential boycott and bad press hassles, and the nasty letters that come to us and not to the rep or the station accusing us of wanting to sell our product only to white people. I personally think it is a bad issue for Texas. A large number of people here are interelated or are the children of people who may not have come here legally. White talk show hosts are blind to the consequences of some of the rhetoric they are spouting at these people.

Women listen to all kinds of stations, as there are all kinds of women, which is why we advertise on all kinds of stations. But women are also more turned off by the snide and snarly stuff. Pat just couldn't figure out how to work that demographic. Get a clue.

If you're concerned about bothering people over the illegal immigration issue (or other controversial issues), maybe a lot of talk radio isn't for you. What's wrong with 6-7% of the radio dial having something like that for people who want it? The solution is not to advertise there, as many brand advertisers don't. Of course, Air America, hot talk, etc. could also cause a problem. The AC stations with male-bashing morning shows and more lite rock all day offend me, but apparently my concerns don't matter. At least if you're going to complain about Gray, et al, put your cards on the table and admit you're offended by this kind of talk because of your political positions. It's obvious by your use of typical overused buzzwords like "rhetoric" and "spout".

Yes, women listen to all kinds of stations, but typically those who listen to N/T identify with that demographic, with is generally A35-64 with 60% or so men. Just like the cume duplication between AC and sports stations among men isn't huge. Don't tell me to get a clue when it isn't Pat Gray's job to "work" the younger female demos. They don't listen. That's why nobody cares about 12+ ratings, because it's the demo that matters, and successful stations don't target everyone with a radio, as you know. Like the fact that almost nobody cares about 65+. Or that 99.1 doesn't care if every guy at the office is pulling his hair out having to listen to it, as long as some receptionist is. So why should KPRC?

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

vaginization?

Which morning shows male-bash, in your opinion?

Just curious.

 

[Chatterati]

To Spinman-
Thanks for posting your replies. I learned something from them.
You sound very well informed and diligent.

 

[TheSpinMan]

I think you missed the part of my post where I said we realized that KPRC attracted zero point something Hispanic listeners. The concern is more along the line of not being indentified with talk radio that goes beyond a rational discussion of the issue and into anti-Hispanic rants that seem to be targeted at them as people. We just don't want the potential boycott and bad press hassles, and the nasty letters that come to us and not to the rep or the station accusing us of wanting to sell our product only to white people. I personally think it is a bad issue for Texas. A large number of people here are interelated or are the children of people who may not have come here legally. White talk show hosts are blind to the consequences of some of the rhetoric they are spouting at these people.

Women listen to all kinds of stations, as there are all kinds of women, which is why we advertise on all kinds of stations. But women are also more turned off by the snide and snarly stuff. Pat just couldn't figure out how to work that demographic. Get a clue.

If you're concerned about bothering people over the illegal immigration issue (or other controversial issues), maybe a lot of talk radio isn't for you. What's wrong with 6-7% of the radio dial having something like that for people who want it? The solution is not to advertise there, as many brand advertisers don't. Of course, Air America, hot talk, etc. could also cause a problem. The AC stations with male-bashing morning shows and more lite rock all day offend me, but apparently my concerns don't matter. At least if you're going to complain about Gray, et al, put your cards on the table and admit you're offended by this kind of talk because of your political positions. It's obvious by your use of typical overused buzzwords like "rhetoric" and "spout".

Yes, women listen to all kinds of stations, but typically those who listen to N/T identify with that demographic, with is generally A35-64 with 60% or so men. Just like the cume duplication between AC and sports stations among men isn't huge. Don't tell me to get a clue when it isn't Pat Gray's job to "work" the younger female demos. They don't listen. That's why nobody cares about 12+ ratings, because it's the demo that matters, and successful stations don't target everyone with a radio, as you know. Like the fact that almost nobody cares about 65+. Or that 99.1 doesn't care if every guy at the office is pulling his hair out having to listen to it, as long as some receptionist is. So why should KPRC?

You put a lot of emotional stuff in your posts, "bothering people", "not for you" etc. It's "for me" because I make advertising decisions. Radio is a business, and that is my point. You say it is not Pat's job to work a demographic and grow his audience, and I say if he wants my money, well then he better. None of this is about emotions to me - it is simply business. Pat is a victim of his ideology driving him to the point he no longer understands his business and its realities. Angry white males are a shrinking demographic. Conservative women and Hispanics are not.

Not understanding that simple set of facts means that one is working a shrinking demographic, which means in radio, that you are going to get fired. It is that simple. Pat seemed a lot more concerned with winning votes for the Republican Party then he was about what the business implications are of how he was approaching this issue. The next business consideration is understanding that the reasons advertisers give you money is not because they like your political views, it is because they think it will help them to make money if they talk to your audience too. They are buying the good will the host creates with his audience, and the type of audience he attracts. We sell tires. We want the conservative working stiff to hear about our tires. But there are also things we don't want, number one of which is bad will from anyone - no one makes money by driving away customers. Whatever you feel about immigrant workers, the business reality is that they have become an important part of our business. We don't care how "controversial" an issue is, heck you can call Hillary every name in the book and I'll still sell a zillion tires on your show, what matters is if you approach certain issues in a way that effects my business. That counts.

Put yourself in my position: say I advertise on Pat Gray, and he calls illegal immigrants "terrorists" (something he actually did by the way) or "criminals" or the other things he calls them, and berates anyone who calls in who thinks the real problem is the big corporations who hire them (something else he actually does). Any caller with a Hispanic accent or name is insulted, demeaned or otherwise made the subject of ridicule. Well, this may come as a surprise to you, but there are organizations in Houston that advocate for immigrants, and they monitor this stuff, and there are new listeners who hear it for the first time, and there are regular listeners who might disagree. These people are going to make the Hispanic community aware of just exactly what Mr. Pat has to say, and they are going to tell them who is advertising on the show. We know all this, and we don't exactly wait for it all to happen, we make decisions based on these future possible outcomes, and pull ads without a blink. Now, I know Berry's style, he isn't going to do the name-calling thing, but he will attract the same demogrpahic, he may pull in some women, and he might even get some Hispanics who are interested in a reasonable discussion of the issue. Now, take your emotions and political views out of it - if you were me, who is going to get my money? My guess is Pat's mouth killed KPRC's ability to attract national accounts that sell consumer commodities, and the Sales people knew it. Goodbye Pat.

 

[TheSpinMan]

To Spinman-
Thanks for posting your replies. I learned something from them.
You sound very well informed and diligent.

Thank you for the compliment. I'm just a simple data analyst, plying my trade, trying to give you all a little insight on what is going on in the corporate marketing arena. I think we are driving changes right now that a lot of people in local talk ain't gonna like before it's over with - it's the old adage, change or die!

 

[DaveCrockett]

SpinMan, you have put your finger on it exactly! Radio should be an emotional experience for the audience, but you better be touching the right emotions. If you don't you give the business guys ammunition to make changes. Clearly that is what happened to Pat over at KPRC. He had plenty of emotion but it was misdirected. When I started DXSRADIO.COM I had to find out what the boundaries were for my audience. I discovered that dropping the F-bomb at will was not cutting it and had to adjust quickly. Nobody really likes to be around angry people so why would they want to listen to one on the radio? Don't get me wrong. It's okay to blow up over something that EVERYBODY will agree with such as killing child molesters. But when you are mad at EVERYTHING that becomes the focus over everything else and that is not good radio. SpinMan makes some great points!


Dave Crockett
www.dxsradio.com