Bills Leaving Cumulus...who will get them?

[lchase]

I've heard San Antonio mentioned, but the Alamo Dome (their biggest venue) only seats 40,000, it's configured for basketball and might be able to fit a baseball team in a pinch, but it's 35,000 or more seats short of what the NFL would need.

Funny, the Alamodome reportedly held at least 58,688 when the Bills played the Saints there in 2005.
(That said, I thought the place was a dump for a 12-year-old-stadium, and San Antone's tailgating rules stunk.)

 

[umtrr-author]

from the Buffalo News today 1/2/11. So this is a company-wide decision, not just Buffalo.

"Stations in the Buffalo Bills Radio Network, including 1290 AM WNBF in Binghamton, 1250 AM WSKO in Syracuse, 1260 AM WRIE in Erie and 1180 WHAM in Rochester are also affected by the decision."

Apologies in advance for being underinformed about this... I get WNBF, WSKO and WRIE-- all Cumulus properties now (right?) but how is WHAM affected? Maybe by not having any product to present? Or is the Buffalo News, and WGRZ which seems to have the same story on their website, just wrong about WHAM?

 

[Element9]

The radio broadcast sounded good, but there was a "last game" tone to it. Or maybe it was just the final score that made it sound that way.

It WAS the last game. Not going to the playoffs. Traditionally, the final game of the season, you credit all the people who've been part of the broadcasts for the season.

True. But if you'd heard the games on the radio this season and listened to this particular game, the differences went beyond nuance, even as last games of the season go. Produced tribute promos aired several times throughout the game, crediting the entire staff, from the GM to the janitor. Murphy sounded genuinely choked up at the end of the game as he handed out personal thanks and accolades to his crew. Ironic: Of all the people associated with the broadcast, Murphy's the one most likely to return next season and the GM will likely be the guy who has to hand out pink slips if the Cumulus purge runs through Buffalo. No, this was not your typical "last game of the season" farewell. This sounded like the period at the end of the sentence. Whoever gets the Bills next has some big shoes to fill.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Apologies in advance for being underinformed about this... I get WNBF, WSKO and WRIE-- all Cumulus properties now (right?) but how is WHAM affected? Maybe by not having any product to present? Or is the Buffalo News, and WGRZ which seems to have the same story on their website, just wrong about WHAM?

The Bills Radio Network is put together annually by the anchor station in Buffalo. The Bills games may not end up moving in Syracuse or Erie because Entercom doesn't have properties there. It will strictly depend on bidding - or perhaps interest with the way that the Bills have been playing. It wouldn't be surprising for Entercom to keep the games in the family in Rochester, though. 'CMF certainly could use a shot in the arm.

 

[GeorgeKramer]

Chet Osadchey said that 97 Rock and 103.3 FM will continue to provide coverage of the Sabres and the Bills.

Will that include at least a beat reporter at Bills training camp, practices and games?

Somehow, I think not.

 

[aaronread]

I just skimmed this thread after a holiday vacation, but I don't think anyone's made this connection yet: if the Bills wanted to buy a station, I have to wonder if WNYPB would be interested in selling 970AM WNED to them at a reasonable price.

The Bills moving to LA is one of those things that seems like a good idea until you consider that it's been tried...twice...already and failed pretty badly both times. (Rams and Raiders) The LA market just doesn't seem to have a jonesing for football...go figure. That said, I'll bet San Antonio, Texas would LOVE to get their hands on a team. Or possibly Austin but I think football fans there are more interested in UT (college) than pro.

Oddly enough, I would also consider Boston to be a great landing place for a displaced Bills franchise. Boston is probably sports-crazy enough to support two NFL football teams. Definitely two baseball teams, but probably two football. I'm not sure where'd they play, though. Unless they share Gillette Stadium with the Pats, the only stadium that's close to the 50k NFL capacity minimum is Alumni Stadium at Boston College (44500) but traffic is a nightmare on game day and I don't think the facility has enough amenities to be "worthy". The Yale Bowl might, but that's too far away.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

The WNED-AM angle was broached in Reply #17 http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=203897.msg1820043#msg1820043

97 Rock's GM was quoted as saying "the door is still open." If the Bills take the games in house, it'd make sense to keep them on 97 and 103 where they're an established part of the line-up. Part of the decision to walk away from negotiations might be connected to the rumor that Cumulus will no longer subscribe to Arbitron. It used to be that radio stations would bend over backwards to accommodate the Bills, but 12 years of not making the playoffs and a mediocre won-lost record might have taken its toll, especially if the Bills were demanding nearly $2 million a season for the privilege of broadcasting the team's games. It's not an inexpensive proposition and the return on investment, especially these days, doesn't warrant an automatic acceptance of the Bills confiscatory demands for a market this size.

 

[TheBigA]

It's not an inexpensive proposition and the return on investment, especially these days, doesn't warrant an automatic acceptance of the Bills confiscatory demands for a market this size.

Especially if they end up with the games anyway as strictly a service provider. That fits better with the Cumulus business model in a time of falling ad rates. That way, they make money regardless, and the Bills take the risk.

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

BOSTON: only because of the AFC.East connection
it wouldnt work - now, say the . . . .jax-jags move there,
u may have something-
-
YES, LA: failed twice - but football left there, in 1994
( - 18 years ago) and the culture has changed..
>>
its a very tough comparision: 1994, to now...to know if a football team will survive in LA
the same can be said w/ everything else:radio, music, TV, etc...
...simply for this reason:
a NEW GENERATION has arrived - your typical 25 -30 year old, was (7-12) when the
football team left- soo, they dont KNOW or CARE it already failed. they are
(in the LA area) have money, and miss football..

in 1994, you TAIL GATE and then simply went to a game, to see the LA_hometown lose.
and probably lose badly !
NOW: you 'check in' on your iphone. .experience the stadium, embrace
the ambience, (twitter, facebook status/updates), etc - for the first few
seasons, football may be secondary, and in the meanwhile, they fill the seats!
(as the team) starts to build a fan base...
-
in respect to the above observation of this next-gen, the
"world" has also changed, as the invested
interest sees LA as a MARKET for revenue as football
is a business first, and NOT as entertainment. what the
hell does that mean ??
- You build it, they will come. There has been a LONG enough
absence, and plenty of research of HOW to do it right - it
will make money ( objective #1) and by being new and
exciting, centrally located , new stadium, and hopefully
(cue up: charlie sheen) ! WINNING! _ it *will* fill the seats!*
-

take this in consideration:
1994 was nearly 20 years ago!!!!!!
times,attitudes, change, esp. since the
mind makers are most likely out of office,
stepped down, or have left this world.

 

[umtrr-author]

Thanks Rox for the clarification on WHAM. I thought that might be the case, but you know what happens when you assume.

Moving the Bills out of town might be a bit of a circular problem: if there is no NFL-worthy stadium in a target market, it would have to be built before a team could move there. I don't see that happening without a solid committment from the team and/or the NFL.

If the Bills then do announce they are moving, they become a "lame duck" and it's questionable what percentage of the fan base here cares any more. That dilutes the value of the team and might even cause a renegotiation of terms of sale. To say nothing of what the Bills would spend to put a quality team on the field in the interim--- which I think will be "nothing." Which further erodes the value of the franchise ("We're #32!") and also pushes the supposed concept of "parity" in the NFL farther away. (Although... parity? This year? I'm reminded of the Coors commercial with the coach that keeps saying "Playoffs?!? Are you kidding me? Playoffs?!?")

 

[Bob1370]

"Funny, the Alamodome reportedly held at least 58,688 when the Bills played the Saints there in 2005.
(That said, I thought the place was a dump for a 12-year-old-stadium, and San Antone's tailgating rules stunk.)"

Reportedly and actually are two different things. Besides, 58,688 would be at least 12,000 fewer seats than any other stadium in the NFL, and they haven't got that many permanent seats anyway. And if they claimed that number, that's about 15,000 seats more than the place actually holds unless they were putting in temporary seats. Add in the shortage of luxury boxes and any NFL team moving there takes a huge financial beating. Any team moving to San Antonio would have to have a totally new, or completely rebuilt, venue to be able to make the nut, and everyone knows it.

LA, as we mentioned above, hasn't got anything close to an NFL-ready stadium. Won't until late in the decade even if they start working on site acquisition tomorrow.

A second team in the Boston area, as mentioned earlier in this thread? No chance, the Pats won't let it happen and there's no proper place to play even if they did.

Toronto didn't show enough love, forget that.

The Bills are stuck in Buffalo because it's the only viable place for them to play. Whoever bids for their rights can be secure those rights will be good for a number of years to come.

 

[aaronread]

A second team in the Boston area, as mentioned earlier in this thread? No chance, the Pats won't let it happen and there's no proper place to play even if they did.

I think the latter is a bigger problem than the former. Technically Harvard Stadium can be set up to hold just over 50k seats but at its stock config it's barely over 30k. And that would mean negotiating with Harvard which has a near-zero chance of success; two huge enterprises (the NFL and Harvard) with titanic egos and competing agendas? Ugh. I actually could see Boston College going for it if offered the chance, but they never would be. The stadium's a hair too small, and it's definitely not luxurious enough, and there are massive traffic/parking problems for every game day...the cities of both Boston and Newton would throw a fit. And that said, the Giants and Jets share a stadium and that seems to work. Why not in Boston, too?

I can't claim to know how Kraft's mind works but why would he automatically reject a second team in Boston? The market's got enough fans to accommodate both and since the NFL is a true socialist enterprise (it's all revenue-sharing) in the end he'd get more money. The only real concern I'd have, if I were him, is that scheduling games at the same time could impact the media value. Not to mention that you simply couldn't have two teams in the same town that're in the same conference, never mind the same division; it'd blow away half the moneymaking opportunities. So some third team from the NFC...presumably the NFC East...would have to trade out.

That all said, I'd expect to see a larger city with no team at all...like San Antonio...get first crack. BTW, the Alamodome seats 65,000 (expandable to 72000) according to Wikipedia. I can't speak to how nice/poor the venue is...beyond to say that the Spurs decided it wasn't good enough. That could just as easily be greed talking, though.

Supposedly Las Vegas is looking to build a trio of pro stadiums with a clear eye towards attracting NFL, MLB and NBA teams. I'll bet the Bills franchise is being viewed covetously by its developers.

 

[lchase]

Bob, in case I didn't make it clear, I was at that Bills-Saints game in the Alamodome. I personally don't think the place would work as a permanent solution, but right now it's already a more viable NFL venue than the Rogers Centre.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

It's one thing for the writers on this board to hash out seemingly unlikely scenarios involving Buffalo and Rochester radio stations. But c'mon guys -- a second NFL team in Boston? Really? I follow sports, and I have never, ever read anything about that. So why waste the bandwidth on such a silly discussion. Some of the scenarios are realistic -- Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Toronto or San Antonio. But as others have argued, each potential future site of the Bills have their problems -- either a lack of interest in pro football or a lack of a suitable stadium. For now, the Bills are here. Buffalo has a rabid fan base, despite 12 losing seasons. There are worse franchises in the league. Let's bring the discussion back to what this thread is about -- 97 Rock's decision to drop the Bills and where they might end up.

 

[Radio_bored-Op]

Im not sure of the exact details,
but I do recall reading A LOT of
"rules" and restrictions of teams
moving to las vegas, (as per the proxy
to establishments allowing to place $$$ on games).
-
secondly,
there are aLOT of tourists, and believe there
would NOT be enough residents to support a pro Team...
(just a guess)

 

[Element9]

Bills to New England? Whatever you're smokin' or drinkin', that's powerful sh*t. What ownership in their right mind wants to compete with Bob Kraft in his own house? It's tough enough competing with the Pats on the field. Not only would the Bills cost about $780 million, the Patriots would have to be paid a substantial sum because Kraft owns the territorial rights. After Wilson kicks the PAT the Bills stay in Buffalo or the franchise goes to a city like LA, Las Vegas or... maybe Boise. Yeah, that's it. Boise! That's just about how crazy the theory of the Bills going to New England appears.

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[Radio_bored-Op]

WGR AM-550: appears to be have landed the Bills...

 

[Bob1370]

WGR can relax...Entercom's investment will have time to pay off because the team's going noplace.

Where would the Bills move if they wanted to leave Buffalo and the 75,000 fans they're guaranteed to draw every week assuming the team is at least respectable? It may be moot. ESPN is speculating that if LA gets a team, it will be the Chargers, who theoretically have the whole SoCal region's territorial rights to themselves already anyway, could move the moment a new facility is ready for kickoff...and have been thinking seriously about it because their old stadium is aging (the baseball team already left it for new quarters across town).

Vegas is missing an NFL-quality stadium and the league is unlikely to feel any better about having a team in the world betting capital now than it has in years gone by. (Notice how all the other major pro leagues, including leagues like the NBA and NHL which could be accommodated by arenas already in existence there, have also stayed away?)

We already discussed Toronto's and San Antonio's lack of a suitable stadium. Same goes for all the big college towns like Columbus or Austin which have decent population bases and lots of seats but no luxury boxes, not to mention fan bases oriented toward the colleges. And putting a second team in an existing NFL market? Happened by default in NYC and the San Francisco Bay area because of the NFL/AFL merger in the late 60s but it hasn't happened since. None of the other markets could realistically support a second team. You could make an argument that the league could put a third team in the greater New York area, located either in Brooklyn, Queens or on the Island, because of the population base and fan interest, not to mention the distance fans on the Island have to travel to see the existing teams' home games in north Jersey...but you'd still need a place to play, since Yankee Stadium is awkward for football (see how they have to fit the field in for their annual Pinstripe Bowl college game?) and lacking seats just like Rogers Center; CitiField would be impossible and short 30,000 seats; and Shea Stadium, which COULD have handled the return of the NFL, is now the CitiField parking lot.

Add it up and the Bills are staying put at least for the rest of the decade. Entercom knows that, and that's why they made the winning bid.

 

[aaronread]

Happened by default in NYC and the San Francisco Bay area because of the NFL/AFL merger in the late 60s but it hasn't happened since.

Yeah it kinda has. Lest we forget, the Raiders were in LA for 12 years before returning to Oakland in 1995.

Anyways, I agree with the standoffishness the major leagues have shown Vegas probably has something, maybe a lot, to do with the gambling and guilt-by-association. I also think it has a lot to do with the isolation of Vegas (there's no major cities or even medium-sized towns within game-day driving distance of it, something that most of the other professional sports teams have) and - more recently - the demographics and economy scream "stay away" for the long-term viability of any pro sports outlet.

The rabid fan base of Buffalo and upstate NY is a very good point. You don't see that kind of obsession for too many teams, although New England is one of them (Christ, just look at how many Sox jerseys you see at EVERY SINGLE away game) and that's mostly what I was basing my analysis on. Well, that and that New England's economy is in a lot better shape than upstate NY's is.

While I personally would think it'd be awesome that my hometown would get a second NFL franchise, I don't deny that it's not a good option. Stadium issues aside, San Antonio makes a hell of a lot more sense than New England or Vegas...and LA arguably makes more sense than San Antonio. But what really matters is butts in the seats (or in the luxury boxes) and that's an edge the Bills still have in spades; they draw a lot of rabid fans from Erie PA all the way to Syracuse.

 

[yugoidar]

Add it up and the Bills are staying put at least for the rest of the decade. Entercom knows that, and that's why they made the winning bid.

Bob, I hope you're right - but you might find these excerpts from the January 16th edition of "New Yorker" magazine interesting. Would it really take 8 years to build a stadium in LA? Is Ralph Wilson likely to be around for the rest of the decade?

Here are the excerpts:

Phillip Anschutz, who is seventy-two, owns A.E.G. (Anschutz Entertainment Group) and has an estimated net worth of seven billion dollars, according to Forbes. He has made his fortune in oil and gas, real estate, railroads, telecommunications, and sports and entertainment. He is one of the largest landowners in the U.S., and his empire of more than a hundred and fifty companies, nearly all privately held, is worldwide.

Tim Leiweke (the A.E.G. President) wants to create what he calls “the final piece of the puzzle for L.A. Live”: an N.F.L. stadium, to be built adjacent to Staples Center. With a deployable roof, the stadium is intended to house—in addition to football games and Super Bowls—concerts, international soccer games, wrestling and boxing matches, N.C.A.A. Final Fours, and major religious gatherings.

Leiweke began his campaign last February, with a lavish public event to announce a deal he had made with the Farmers Insurance Company: in exchange for a reported seven hundred million dollars over thirty years, the planned stadium would be named Farmers Field. It was the largest naming-rights deal in sports.

The next step will be the most challenging. Anschutz has pledged to spend more than a billion dollars to build the stadium, but he and Leiweke must reach a deal both with the N.F.L. and with one or two teams to move to L.A.