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Billy Bush Teams Up With Cumulus

Are you kidding me??

1. WSTR is more of a true CHR than WWWQ is these days, albeit more conservative!

2. WAKZ has been beating WHOT in the demos for a long time. Voicetracking is a part of radio now, get over it! Cumeless tanked WHOT.

3. Cumeless is tanking KRBE and it is only doing better because of heritage and the fact they WERE the only game until about 6 months ago.

4. Lapsed markets such as Sioux Falls is VERY uncommon. They were market 211 until 2001. I live and work at a radio station in Sioux Falls. You would think when Cumulus came in, that they might order the book again. But they like the idea of running long stopsets and not having to worry about tuneout. Country station KIKN runs about 30 minutes of commericals each hour!

Like B100, Hot 104.7's playlist does look alot better than most Cumulus stations simply because they have a sister Hot AC. It still sounds stale music-wise and recurrent/gold heavy in the day along with being a bit slow on the uptake with hot currents, but I give them credit for being #1 in the last county ratings...99.7 had a 2.1 for your information. They were once the great flamethrowing CHR that sounded way bigger than the market they're in...while the imaging and jocks still sound good, the music needs work as KKCK usually beats them to most songs including rap songs (unlike 104.7, 99.7 plays rap in the day)!

Lastly, why all the KKCK bashing on this board? They're a station like anyone else in Sioux Falls and an excellent alternative to Hot 104.7 that doesn't sound voicetracked like alot of smaller market CHRs do. They don't need Sioux Falls to survive. Just b/c they play A FEW records that not many other CHR/Pop stations are playing doesn't mean that there's a need to bash them. What's wrong with trying to find your market's hits rather than copying a cookie cutter playlist. While their airstaff won't be working in a major market anytime soon, they are pretty decent, especially the afternoon jock and night jock. They are live and local in all dayparts except overnights as well as a good chunk of the weekend, with local contesting. They even have a Sunday night modern rock show, it is good that bands like 311, Against Me, etc. are on Sioux Falls airwaves outside of KSDJ. Plus they have pretty decent professional CHR imaging with Sean Caldwell for their voice. While Open House Party isn't as good as it used to be, they run the show on weekends and it still sounds pretty good on small market stations. They are not the only CHR that does a retro lunch and/or retro "old school" weekends playing requests that were hot in 80's and 90's. So what if they played AC/DC, Kansas, or Lynyrd Skynyrd? What is 99.7 so guilty of aside from thinking outside the box, and adding certain records with crossover appeal that few other CHRs have begun playing?

Have a great day everyone!
 
Great comments from most here.
Sinbad, you seem like a cool guy in geenral. Do you work at 95.9 Kiss FM? I'm sorry but that station, to me, is very cookie cutter in its Rhythmic pop leaning selections. It's no KIIS-FM, Channel 95-5, or 104.5 SNX to be sure. I'll further entertain you with my outlook on this station in just a moment.
Now for Hot 101, it IS a CHR/Pop station albeit a very conservative one. Still, it sounds no different then 104.3 ZYP Huntsville, or 107.1 A1A Melbourne. Another thing to remember is that comparing Hot 101 in its prime to the current sound of 95.9 Kiss FM, Hot wins hands down! There was a lot more originality involved.
You claim that Hot's music is the dominant soundtrack to most nightclubs in Y-Town? Guess what - those are the same Hip Hop and Pop records that dominate most of America's medium and large sized cities. Go to Nashville or Omaha or Boise and you'll hear the same big records in the mainstream clubs. That doesnt mean the CHR/Pop stations in those cities play nothing but the big club bangers. In fact, CHRs are usually more current leaning then the music heard on a typical college or ladies night, and the variety is bigger. Not only that but most Americans dont even frequent nightclubs nearly as much as their European counterparts do, and as a result the overwhelming majority of most of the CHR audience usually doesnt party at the local CHR hotspots.

Unique club scenes in this country can be found either in the big Hip Hop capitals, such as New York or Atlanta (especially in the black clubs), or the big electronic dance music capitals such as Miami and Chicago.
Most of the clubs in Youngstown are no different musically then most of those nd in Columbus, or Cleveland, or Canton. 96.5 Kiss FM, 97.9 NCI, and Q-92 all do CHR radio better then the CHRs found in Youngstown, in my humble opinion.

Oh, and I really don't feel that I have to "watch it" when exploring the topic of freely disseminating my views on this forum. My synopsis of the state of CHR radio doesnt have to align with yours, but I'm always open to hear other members views.
 
In my opinion, WZYP was even MORE conservative before Cummulus bought them in 2003. In fact, WZYP was so conservative before the take over that in the late 90s when rap started to really cross over to top 40 radio that WZYP would delete most of the rap songs off AT 40 and Rick Dees and replace them with conservative HOT AC type music, even if it was a recurrent that Casey said fell off this week's chart.

That's right, WZYP was even MORE Hot AC leaning before Cummulus. Many rap recurrents, such as Real Slim Shady by Eminem, Thong Song by Sisqo and Butterfly by Crazytown, were examples of songs WZYP didn't play and deleted off the national countdowns and WZYP only now began adding those to night song rotation a couple of years ago. They wouldn't play rap at night, and would even play quite a bit of 80s hits during the day until 6 or 7 in the evening.

WZYP may still be HOT AC leaning, but at least with the Cumulus takeover, WZYP actually played some current rap songs, even if after 7, and didn't delete the rap songs, or other songs not played by WZYP, off Rick Dees or AT 40.
 
Coming from someone who works for Cumulus and has no issues with them, besides for the budget concerns, I think they know what they are doing.

There is a lot more PD control than you think. Yes, Jan gets country and CHR, and Val gets Rock/Alt formats for VP of Programming, but they give the local PDs (at least over here) decent control over what music to play. New music may be limited, but that is because it is being tested. The golds get retested, and the PDs get a generous list of songs they can add or don't have to. PDs are allowed to put on feature programs, including TRUE request hours, where requests actually get played.

Because of curiousity about Hot 101 out in Youngstown, I took a look at the playlist. I can tell it is dayparted. However, 7pm-5am looks fine to me, to be a CHR. Even during the day, it doesn't look too out of the ordinary. Take a look at the CHR station WIXX once. It really resembles Hot 101 with it's playlist and dayparting. I actually think Hot 101 looks cooler, has a bit of those "extras" you don't hear elsewhere on the radio these days.

DJs on Cumulus stations are generally allowed to say what they want, do what they want within reason so the company doesn't get sued, etc. There is no requirement that they have to use prep cards or the like. If there is, then that is the PD deciding, not the company.

I have worked for 3 different radio companies, 1 being a local owner, 2 of them being corporations (one is a local corp, one is national), and all of them run typically the same. Pay is around the same, as are benefits. Cumulus is ran tighter, true, but for a reason. They have to. They are trying to appeal to the stockholders.

Cumulus does, in my opinion, know what they are doing. I am proud to work for them.
 
wikhradio said:
Cumulus is ran tighter, true, but for a reason. They have to. They are trying to appeal to the stockholders.
Click to expand...

And there you have it. Yikes. Last time I checked, stockholders don't give you ratings. That your programming caters to anything other than your listeners, and you're proud of that, speaks volumes.
 
I am saying behind the scenes, we are ran tighter. The budget is low, expectations are higher than average. Our programming, however, is run to grab ratings. We are in a niche format that no one else is doing presently in the market. The format is a gamble, and still is very new. My show is programmed specifically for the audience, for their entertainment. I try to have as much fun as possible with the listeners while I am on the air. Hopefully they see that, and enjoy it. I work hard because I believe in what I do.

Radio, in general, needs sales to survive however. And the more sales, the more budget all the stations are getting. If the sales people can't sell more, then the budget will get cut, and positions will be lost. If the station sells well, then the station's budget will go up and they will be able to add more staff/promote. It works that way in local/private radio, and it also does in corporate radio.

The company itself, if you go back to the Dickey's, are trying to keep their numbers looking good for the stockholders. The VP of Programming people I spoke about run their idea of the general formatics by the research, and the PDs do the actual scheduling and setup of the music flow, as well as the entire station sound.
 
Re: CHRles - you don't know Youngstown my friend.

Spinbad said:
1. HOT is not CHR anymore. I repeat - HOT is not CHR anymore. They are HOT AC. Go to Mediabase and pull up the "Not playing" list. You'll be shocked at how many charted Pop songs they are not on. They benefit from IN-OFFICE LISTENING during the day. If anything, CC Hot AC WMXY is more their primary competition - especially during the day.
Click to expand...

Speaking about WHOT, go look at KQXY and pull up the "Not playing" list. That's even more HOT AC than WHOT. While I understand why WHOT is on the CHR panel because they are a CHR at night (albeit adult leaning), KQXY has ZERO rhythmic product unless you count Mariah Carey, Leona Lewis, and Jordin Sparks. KQXY even plays Soft Cell "Tainted Love" and 80s Bon Jovi (BJ is excusable as a CHR gold IMO), well so does WHOT, but you get what I mean. KQXY is NOT CHR, it is a HOT AC that needs to be on the HOT AC panel. O.A.R. "Shattered" was added by all the Cumulus CHRs a couple of weeks ago.

WIXX on the other hand is definitely dayparted, but not as extreme as most Cumulus stations. They added "Lolli Lolli" this week, and they are on "Get Silly" (not to start a pissing match w/some on the board...KKCK is on those songs as well, which targets two college towns with 20,000 people and SF has 150,000 people), which most of the Cumulus owned CHRs aren't playing. A few years ago, WIXX had a cool Rock CHR format that played tunes nobody else played. They are alot more mainstream CHR sounding today while they still play songs nobody else is playing. WIXX researches the market, and judging by the ratings, WIXX is right on with what the market wants since they are #2 in Green Bay and Appleton and cleaning WKSZ's clock. I really wish there were more outlets around the country that thought a little more outside the box like IXX, KCK, and KQID in Louisiana.

wikhradio, I have worked for Cumulus in the past as an MD on one of their CHR's. I can vouch for the way Jan works. I am not sure what market you are in, but me having an MD stripe with them meant completely ZILCH. MD with Cumulus just gives you a right to give Jan feedback on tracks, no decision making. Do I sound bitter? Yes, because that was one of the most horrible situations I could have ever been in. And others are and were in the same boat with that company. People call Clear Channel cheap and irrational in their ways, but in all reality, CC looks like a complete angel and dream compared to Cume-less. Talk to any record rep and ask them about Jan, and see what they have to say ;) I'm willing to bet money it isn't positive. Furthermore, at least in the market I was in, he requires the PD's have all imaging copy approved through his office before sending it to v/o.

In conclusion, I have no doubt that Jan did his thing as a programmer but does it really make sense to govern markets with such an iron fist when there are no proximity connections?
 
Re: CHRles - you don't know Youngstown my friend.

Spinbad said:
1. HOT is not CHR anymore. I repeat - HOT is not CHR anymore. They are HOT AC. Go to Mediabase and pull up the "Not playing" list. You'll be shocked at how many charted Pop songs they are not on. They benefit from IN-OFFICE LISTENING during the day. If anything, CC Hot AC WMXY is more their primary competition - especially during the day.
Click to expand...

I am not getting into a debate about a station I have never listened to, but to be technical - according to Mediabase - they ARE a CHR. I repeat - they ARE a CHR. They are NOT a Hot AC. You told us to go there...and sure enough...they are on the CHR panel...just saying.

I am as offended as you that they benefit from IN-OFFICE LISTENING during the day...how dare they!! For that reason alone, they should have their license revoked. Competing with a Hot AC for saleable demos during the day...damn them straight to hell!!
 
I think why people have a beef with WHOT is because it's not programmed locally. There's nothing wrong with going after the money demo.
 
Porky, you sound VERY bitter about the company. I have been working for Cumulus for a year and a half so far, and haven't had any issues with them whatsoever, besides the fact that their budgets are tighter than some previous employers. We have a lot of local control. One of our stations in the cluster is a Hot AC, that actually has been getting more rhythmic over the last couple years (Playing likes of Natasha Bedingfield - Pocketful of Sunshine, Alicia Keys - No One, JT- What Goes Around Comes Around, Gwen - Rich Girl, and so on and so forth). I personally don't work at the Hot AC, but from what I hear, they keep to the research, but can be programmed pretty much locally.

I think that is what much of this comes down to, is bitterness for the company, because you couldn't do exactly what you want. MD is rarely a position that matters these days. I have also worked for a couple CHRs in my radio career, and their MD's didn't have anything to do with the music selection. It was mainly just a backup position to the PD. And, just an FYI, this wasn't at Cumulus or CC, it was at a small company.
 
There are good people working for Cumulus, and I respect that.

I know the MD title doesn't mean you have complete control over the music, but the station I worked for all adds were from Atlanta and they denied any petition that had local flavor. It could be that you are in a different market where there is less influence from Atlanta.

I am not bitter about the company, I am working for a different company now in a much better situation. Every company has its ups and downs.

Jan Jeffries, IMO, is OLD and OUT OF TOUCH with the CHR format. The same formulas don't work for every market, they work for some and don't work for others. InsertNameHere is on the money:
Jan is OLD and OUT OF TOUCH! He thinks hip-hop belongs on Urban stations, he won't change his ways.
And when Hot 957 eats away all of KRBE's 18-34 numbers, then maybe someone at the very top will take notice.
Til then...it'll be the way it is unless he croaks.
Click to expand...
 
Jan usually does not add songs until the reach the Top 30 or even wait longer then, but what do you have to lose by NOT playing a song. The philosphy is to play the high researching hits which are the same nationally. I already explained why Cumulus is more centralized than other companies, it is because they want to coach their PDs on how to win. Jan has experience in little markets and big markets and he knows a hell of a lot more than someone who is not an experienced PD.

AGENCIES DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT 12-17, AND THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT 18-34 AS MUCH AS THEY DO ABOUT 25-54!! That's why in the DAYTIME a lot of these stations cater for the 25-54 female, a demographic that actually makes stock holders happy. Cumulus programs to make money to keep the stock holders happy, not to listeners.

High ratings and not enough revenue to make the stockholders happy = Bye Bye Radio Station
Low ratings and lots of revenue = we'll take that
High ratings AND high revenue = Winner!

By the way Porky and InsertNameHere, what does age have to do with anything? In my examples I used some out-market stations with decent signal penetration since if those local stations were really THAT BAD, they would get beat by an out of market station. A few years ago WDJQ (then WZKL) was getting their clocks cleaned by WAKS in their own market! It can happen.

Q100 must be doing something right now that they are beating Star 94.
There were some that predicted that Hot 95.7 would beat KRBE in one book.
 
National agencies that handle Pepsi, Pop Tarts (American Idol tour sponsor), and a few others do buy 12-17! That demo is the decision maker for the money spending parents for those products! They spend big money!

Regional and local agencies that handle certain car dealers, beer, cell phones, clothing stores, amusement parks, grocery stores, etc. buy from 18-34 numbers, but try to grab those that are also specifically strong 25-34. Because they all have a lot of disposable income! Other do focus on 25-54...but it's based on their brand!

FACT!
 
knowing a cumulus top 40 pd right now i can personally say they have no local control over the playlist. Jan sends a list of the currents and what categories each song should be and/or move to each week. he tells you what to add as well. the only thing he does is put a "for discussion only" section with a few songs but 99% of the time if you give reason to add one of these songs he says no. i personally think that's there for him to say the stations have local control so payola doesn't become an issue.
 
lowpower said:
knowing a cumulus top 40 pd right now i can personally say they have no local control over the playlist. Jan sends a list of the currents and what categories each song should be and/or move to each week. he tells you what to add as well. the only thing he does is put a "for discussion only" section with a few songs but 99% of the time if you give reason to add one of these songs he says no. i personally think that's there for him to say the stations have local control so payola doesn't become an issue.
Click to expand...

Yep, I've heard the same thing lowpower. The Cumulus PD's really have no control over the music whatsoever; they're basically glorified APDs while Jan plays the PD role for them all.
 
His picture is scary because he is an old man controlling the music of multiple CHR stations. I mean, completely controlling the music. Local (and often more qualified) PDs have no say. Granted, he doesn't make ridiculous decisions, but the way he goes about it is scary.

I think it's funny how Cumulus has one guy controlling all their station playlists and CLEAR CHANNEL gets the bad wrap on the message boards and around the industry. Like 'em or not, Clear Channel brand managers only give advice, they don't have complete control.
 
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