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Bluewater WACV For Sale

BamaGrrl said:
Liberal talk failed miserably with Air America. .

Not really. Air America failed as a business, albeit one that long outpaced the predictions of its industry critics. (It finally went kaput before its sixth birthday, when some didn't think it would last six months.) As Zach noted, it ultimately revived interest in left-of-center talk radio programming, of which there is more now than there was when AAR first signed on in 2004. He was also right-on about money management--Air America had no business trying to lease or buy stations outright. Had they been more into online and wireless media platforms from the start, they might still be around on iPods and Blackberries today instead of a terrestrial radio footnote.

Zach said:
I don't really see libtalk doing well as a full lineup on any station in Alabama.
It's a no-brainer that it'd be a tough row to hoe in red state (crimson red?) Alabama. I'd still like to see how a small daytimer or a graveyard AM in Montgomery or Birmingham might do, but then again I've been saying that for years. Nobody's got the stones (or the desperation?) to try it.
 
Nate,

Excellent point and exactly why translators with AM stations could eventually offer a broader choice of options for the public. For 300k a new broadcaster could take a chance on an interesting, but fringe format, due to the low cost of entry and overhead. Can't do that when you pay a million or two for a full market FM.
 
So then what is the deal on the CP on 1030 AM "licensed" to Maxwell Air Force Base. (Can they legally be a city of license?) With some midrange powerhouse 1030 stations around and some far away (WBZ) and some not too far away (Memphis, Oviedo, FL), and proposing 35 kw daytime (and full 1 kw nighttime) worth of transmission - how many towers will they require and what kind of pattern would they prepare? Will it happen, and if it doesn't would it be worth an upgrade like the 1160 situation in Mobile which didn't / hasn't happened?

Is it even relevant?
 
J Alex Bowab said:
I previously questioned why the DA-D. At the time, the nearest 1170 north of them was in Wheeling WV, and there was nothing on 1160 all the way to Chicago, and nothing on 1180 all the way to Rochester NY.

It's possible that 1170 was originally non directional, then had some sort of change to the facilities (a transmitter move, perhaps?) that then required them to protect the newer station in Hanceville.

To add even more complication to this, I'm not even sure the Hanceville station is even on the air anymore. Last I heard, it was running a few watts into a fiberglass pole setup just to keep the license, but that was a while back. It's entirely possible WACV is having to protect a station that's not even on the air anymore!
 
StrayKats said:
So then what is the deal on the CP on 1030 AM "licensed" to Maxwell Air Force Base. (Can they legally be a city of license?) With some midrange powerhouse 1030 stations around and some far away (WBZ) and some not too far away (Memphis, Oviedo, FL), and proposing 35 kw daytime (and full 1 kw nighttime) worth of transmission - how many towers will they require and what kind of pattern would they prepare? Will it happen, and if it doesn't would it be worth an upgrade like the 1160 situation in Mobile which didn't / hasn't happened?

Is it even relevant?

Both the Memphis and Orlando stations have similar nighttime patterns, kidney shaped pointing to the SW. To protect WBZ I suppose? So I reckon a station in Montgomery would look similar. Surely if Memphis can have a 50 kW'er on 1070 and so can Birmingham, this allocation will fit even easier.

The day and night patterns (PDF) are available from the FCC. It's 3 towers day and 6 tower night, so I am of course skeptical of it ever actually being built out. ;)
 
sflaboy said:
Gentlemen, are you really questioning whether I know my own business? I assure you that I do. WACV protects WQHC Hanceville also on 1170. I really don't care what your yearbook says. I bought these stations in 2006. This pattern has been in existence for decades before that My only reference is my consulting engineers, who have run the contours and radials and say we have a problem north. The only reason WACV is directional daytime is due to WQHC. The nighttime signal is another story.

Right, I don't think you know your business. Rave on, my anger management colleague, but there is no way that your station, built several DECADES AGO, is "nulled to the north" to protect puny WQHC, built in 1986. I would "run, don't walk" to a new consultant. Someone has their head up their posterior on this one. I thought Davenport, Iowa (1170) may be the issue, but they didn't sign on until 1947.

P.S...In selecting a new consultant... I would especially avoid engineering firms in Alabama who create a "conflict of interest" for their clients, by dabbling and investing in CP's for new stations, many of which never seem to be built. Not that I'm talking about anyone in particular...
 
The 1170 WCOV DA-D facility was indeed built decades before Hanceville came on the air. 50 years ago I could name every station in Alabama with its power and freq. I knew WCOV was DA-D then. I'm sure it could have gone non-DA-Day before 1986, but it cannot now because of Hanceville. It protects Hanceville now; it did not protect it back when the facility was planned. I think the consultant is not making himself clear on that subject. Hanceville was able to shoe-horn its facility in because Montgomery already had the null decades earlier.

I have known of stations that built a DA to protect a CP that never came on the air, and the station continued to be DA for years after that. Two examples: WABF 1220 in Fairhope (where I live) came on in 1960, protecting 1220 in Monroeville, which changed to 1360 perhaps a year later. WABF continued to protect this non-existent station until about 7 years ago. WMOO 1550 Mobile, 2 tower 50 kw-D came on the air in 1964. It had a null to the NE to protect a Selma station which had a CP to move from 1570 to 1550. Selma stayed on 1570, and WMOO kept that NE null until it moved to 660 around 1990.

I have known of other owners who did not know the true nature of their DA situation.

WABF and WMOO, both located on the eastern shore of Mobile Bay, got some benefit from their DA in that they pushed more signal into Mobile proper, though they lost some other areas. Think of the DA as a balloon ... you squeeze it in at one place, and it bulges out in the other.

Sometimes you choose a DA to focus more signal in an intended area. We no longer have Class 1-A clear channel stations, but two of them - WWL 870 New Orleans and WBZ 1030 Boston, chose to be DA-1 to redirect signal that would go out into the water (Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean respectively), back over land with ERP greater than 50 kw. Come to think of it, 1100 Cleveland (KYW/WTAM/WKYC) did the same at one time, reducing its signal into Canada (they've since gone non-DA). It wasn't about protecting some other station, because there were no other stations on their freq.

The WACV/WCOV DA-D increases the signal more to the East and West than South; maybe they were trying to be listenable in Selma and Columbus. Who knows what they were thinking 50+ years ago (the station was originally on 1240, moved to 1170 way back when).

The main reason AM stations go DA is because they have to avoid interfering with an existing station; sometimes it's to increase signal in a certain direction, as mentioned above. A third, infrequently invoked reason, is because at one time the FCC would not let you own two stations with contour overlap (we've come a long way since then). I once heard of a station having to implement a DA because its non-DA signal would have prohibited overlap with another station (on an entirely different frequency) that it also owned. WVOK 690 and WBAM 740 (once commonly owned) were both DA for other reasons, but I once heard that if both had been non-DA, their 0.5 mv/m contours would overlap significantly between Montgomery and Birmingham.
 
Hey, I have an idea. Why don't one of you supposed experts in AM directional facilities buy WACV and improve it. $200k and it's yours - complete with 35 acres. After all, you know better than us, the consultants, and our own engineer. If not, why don't you let those of us ACTUALLY in the business alone to our own designs. Oh, and by the way, the consulting engineers we used are universally and overwhelmingly recommended, and considered the best AM/D guys in the business - and no, they are not from Alabama. God, why do I waste my time? Again, anyone, Bueller...anyone....$200k.
 
Watcher and J Alex,

I think my last comment came off as snarky, and that was not my intention. I do know that the "history lesson" about WACV is totally irrelivant to the current state of the facility and it's limitations. I have no idea why the original owners decided to engineer this nightmare. I do know that is is unimportant. My experience with this facility began in 2006 - and as part of a business model, it has to pay it's way. What is important is that we are required to protect Hanceville even though the licensee has been lying and decieving the FCC for years about it's status, and have documented such to the Commission on more than one occassion. The truth be told, Hanceville is operating under STA at about 10 watts with a piece of wire hanging out a window. The actual tower was removed years ago even though documents to the FCC indicated it was a complete facility, yet WACV has been restricted due to this POS to the north. Without it, WACV could be 10KW non-D. Those are the facts. Again, the nighttime signal is another can of worms. Anyway, 5kw 2 towers and 7watts at night, with a translator is perfectly acceptable business solution, and serves the market well. AM's are a dying breed. They will not be resurected except with translators. That's the bottom line. Read the latest articles on HD AM. It's dead. The only sound business model (short of going dark) is with the use of translators - something we are currently doing with great success (104.9 The Gump). That's where this post started. You will see more and more of this being done in the future. It might just rescue the band. Again, my appologies, but those of us who have to face the realities of this business on a day to day basis have very little patience with second guessers. Anyone who thinks they can do a better job than my group is welcome to put their money where their mouth is. 200K.
 
@sflaboy

Cool. Your decisions on this seem sound and progressive to me.
The history of the station and why the DAY DA when they first went on the air interests me. Purely for fun.
Plus I could not resist a chance to take an indirect barb at a consultant company I find unethical.

@ J Alex

You may be right about them doing the DAY DA to help coverage toward Selma & Columbus.
Why not? You have to put up six towers for NIGHT DA anyway, why not use two to optimize coverage.
The only question that comes to mind, did the commission allow you to do DA purely for coverage augmentation.

My limited research shows a 1943 CP for WJJJ 1170 10 KW - LS 1 KW - Night
Looking at stations that year, just doesn't really show any stations needing protection in the direction of the WJJJ DAYTIME null.
It also doesn't show up as Constructed until late 1948-49(because of WW ll maybe?). Licensed as WJJJ 10KW-LS 1KW-Night
WCOV existed as a separate station then. I don't believe they were one in the same with WJJJ/WACV.

I am going to dig a little more when I have time.
 
WCOV was probably still on 1240 (250 watts D/N) at the time.

Aside from the questionable decision to be DA-D, I never would have built that night facility - two lobes (one to SSE, one South) with a sharp null between them - and the null runs right thru the center of the city. That has problems written all over it. I suppose that null was because of someone in Fla or Cuba (because of international treaties, Cuban stations were entitled to protection, just as Mexican and Canadian ones - this was pre-Castro).

Getting more off topic, but: Historically speaking, the WCOV call letters have been associated with other disasters. Anyone remember the actual details about their venture into TV in 1953? I seem to recall they had a CP for a VHF TV channel, but could not get delivery on certain equipment (antenna? transmitter?) so they took UHF 20 instead to expedite getting on the air. In the early days, it was almost impossible to sustain a UHF TV station, particularly when you had VHF competition (WSFA 12). After 1964 came the requirement that TV sets be manufactured with UHF tuners, so things got a little better. Then in the 80s, Channel 8/Selma came on with a tall tower and took COV's CBS affiliation, which knocked them for another loop. When FOX came along later, that was a consolation prize.
 
WQHC 1170 has been silent since January or February. They are broadcasting dead air from their "studio." They haven't been broadcasting continuously or at full power (850 watts) since they were alternative rock formatted WXRP lastly around 2005. They came back on the air in 2007 as southern gospel programmed WLYG and after new owners bought the land on which the station was leased, fell back silent in maybe October 07. They returned as STA in late November 2009.

I know they are silent as of now because I'm sitting maybe 3/4 mile from their 15' antenna!

-Travis
 
J Alex Bowab said:
Getting more off topic, but: Historically speaking, the WCOV call letters have been associated with other disasters. Anyone remember the actual details about their venture into TV in 1953? I seem to recall they had a CP for a VHF TV channel, but could not get delivery on certain equipment (antenna? transmitter?) so they took UHF 20 instead to expedite getting on the air. In the early days, it was almost impossible to sustain a UHF TV station, particularly when you had VHF competition (WSFA 12). After 1964 came the requirement that TV sets be manufactured with UHF tuners, so things got a little better. Then in the 80s, Channel 8/Selma came on with a tall tower and took COV's CBS affiliation, which knocked them for another loop. When FOX came along later, that was a consolation prize.
Your recollection jibes heavily with what's been detailed on WCOV's Wikipedia page. They've made out fairly well with Fox's growth, but how different things would be had the original owners waited for that VHF equipment...
 
To: J. Alex Bowab Re: Your references to WBAM 740 and WRMA 950.

WBAM 740 was located on the Troy Highway about a mile and a half south of the Southern Bypass. Deep South Broadcasting sold the license to WBAM-AM740 in 1985 to Colonial Broadcasting who at the time operated WLWI-FM (92.3) who rebuilt the AM740 transmitting plant northeast of Montgomery on Wares Ferry Road and had studios on Perry Street with their WLWI-FM. Colonial moved the Harris MW50 transmitter from Troy Highway to Wares Ferry Road in 1985, and constructed a new two-tower array of smaller, equal height towers. Colonial operated AM740 with 50,000 watts until 1994. The MW50 was giving the engineers fits and stayed on 10,000 for an extended period of time. Colonial was pleased with their 10kw signal's coverage and their lower power bill at the transmitting plant, applied for a power decrease from 50kw to 10kw maintaining the same two-tower directional pattern, and boughjt a new 10kw transmitter, and has been 10kw ever since. AM740 decreases to 233 watts at night using the same two-tower array and pattern as the daytime. Note: The M-Street Radio Book shows AM740 (now WMSP) as a DA-2, but that is incorrect. WMSP is DA-1.
 
To: J. Alex Bowab Re: Your reference to WRMA 950.

WRMA on 950 khz back in the 70's had a single tower in West Montgomery (where Gateway Park ball diamond is now located) at 1kw daytime. WRMA built a four-tower array for nighttime in North Montgomery in 1973. WRMA change call letters to WLSQ in 1975. (AM 950 is now WNZZ owned by Cumulus Broadcasting). Before Cumulus ownership, back in 1990, the AM950 four-tower array in North Mongomery had a fire which destroyed the transmitter building, Harris 1kw transmitter, the phasor, and everything else in the building. This is funny: The 950 nighttime site could be off the air for days before their engineer, a personal friend of mine who is retired and living in Gulf Breeze, Florida, would be called to go turn it back on. The money maker for the owners in 1990 was a FM (103.3 now owned by Cumulus) and couldn't care less about the AM. When he went to the nighttime site to check on it being off the air, the building (a wooden storage shed like you would buy at Lowe's or Home Depot) and contents were already a cool pile of ashes. Apparently, the fire was unnoticed by the public (it was in the middle of a large field surrounded by tree) and burned itself out and cooled down. The fire marshall determined that the AC to the tranmitter building shorted within the conduit at the breaker panel (220 volt, single phase), and caused the fire.

AM 950 WNZZ is currently diplexing from the WMSP AM740 site on Wares Ferry Road non-directional with 1kw days and 44 watts night.
 
Thanks for filling in the info on 950 and 740. Around 1974 I was operating a black FM in Jackson Miss and had heard about WRMA, then also a black station, experimenting with a format that was in between "soul" and "top 40." They had just gone fulltime. Interested in seeing whether the format would work, I visited the station. The station eventually abandoned the black format altogether. (An aside: years later, 106.9 in Bham tried to straddle the fence between CHR and Urban, and called it "Churban." It too was abandoned.)

Back to the info on the "WACV For Sale" sign. Asking $200K and 35 acres included. Forgetting the value of the license and transmitting equipment, that's $5700 per acre for the land, unless I'm missing some other detail. I live in Baldwin County, one of the two highest growth counties in the state (Shelby being the other). Until the economy tanked, I didn't think you could buy land anywhere in Baldwin County for $5700/acre. Hey, buy the station and regardless of whether you operate it or shut it down, the land should be of value, unless it is swamp.
 
It's 35 acres of what is often very "damp". Right by the river in the flood plain. The license alone is worth $150k. Stroh just paid 250 for an AM which he had to move 60 mules and then put up a complete transmitter facility. Probably $400k invested for 10k day/7watts night off 231.
 
WCOV was originally 250 watts at 1240. WJJJ was 10k day 1k night at 1170. WCOV either merged with or bought the interest in WJJJ and moved the call letters WCOV to 1170. The mmanagement after the merger was the management of the original WCOV. This was in the 1953 time frame as it allowed WETU (WAPZ) in Wetumpka which had just signed on in 1953 with 250 watts at 1570 to move down to 1250 with 1k then within a year to 5K daytime. In the process they errected a new tower probably for the 5k signal. The current location of WAPZ south of Wetumpka was signed on in 1964. The original was just south of Julia Tutwiler prison on 231.

How would you like to try 250 watts daytime now and make a go of it?
 
The floods of 1979 and of 1990 put a foot, maybe more, of water in the WACV transmitter building when the Alabama River reached 59-1/2 feet. Flood stage is 35 feet. The river normally runs around 21 to 23 feet. The transmitter and phasor are elevated 3 to 4 feet above floor level to protect from flood; probably as of a result of a severe flood in 1962 which was the last major flood before 1979. The river is far enough away from the WACV transmitter site that you don't realize that the land out there can flood severely.

In 1978, the transmitter itself caught fire and destroyed the transmitter, and damaged the phasor, and part of the building. I remember someone in the WHHY News Department where I was Assistant to the Chief Engineer hearing over the scanner the power company being summoned by the fire department to cut power to the building as well. Over the scanner was also heard "flames visible" when the fire department arrived. The 1kw backup transmitter was not damaged. With the help of an electric company to repair the electrical in the building, the engineers got the 1kw transmitter running within 24 hours. I am not sure what the pattern was (directional or non-directional) with the damaged phasor. I know of twice in the last 40+ years, a tower coming down due to a bushhog clipping a guy wire. Back in the late 60's, one of the two towers in the daytime array came down due to bushogging and STA was given to run 1kw day non-directional and 250 watts night non-directional until a new tower was up. The last time a tower came down due to bushhogging has been 7 to 10 years ago. The nightime array was only affected and I remember the WACV engineer telling me that with 5 out of 6 towers, the monitor points were in tolerance and the station operated that way until the sixth tower was reconstructed.

I always thought that someone wanted to be on the air mighty bad at night to construct a 1 kw six-tower array in North Montgomery on 1170. When all tower lights on all towers are lit at night, I always thought it was an impressive site from a distance such as from east Prattville out on Cobb Ford Road.

So much for my nostalgia.
 
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