BREAKING ALL "THE RULES"...AND I'M LOVING IT!

[fang39]

If you've been listening to CBS-FM since the flip, you'll note that they've been doing several things that go against current programming convention and have been deemed as no-no's in previous posts from several of our esteemed contributors. Included are:

• Front/back selling the YEAR a particular record was a hit (i.e.-"a big hit for the group back in 1964")
• Announcing the AGE of celebrities during birthday segments (they're actually featuring the music of the Rolling Stones today in recognition of Mick Jagger's 64th Birthday)

Comments?

 

[Shredder]

Heh, I'm just an average listener who doesn't know squat about the music business and sometimes it's fun too see what the insiders think is good and not good too do.

Personally, as an average listener, I don't see the big deal of advertising the year the song was recorded, or that a certain celebrity is a certain age. So long as the music is good, I'll listen, so who cares?

 

[DToTheJ]

....they're actually featuring the music of the Rolling Stones today in recognition of Mick Jagger's 64th Birthday... Comments?

Will Luciana still need him
Will Luciana still feed him
When he's -- ah, nevermind

 

[mcmannors]

If you've been listening to CBS-FM since the flip, you'll note that they've been doing several things that go against current programming convention and have been deemed as no-no's in previous posts from several of our esteemed contributors. Included are:

• Front/back selling the YEAR a particular record was a hit (i.e.-"a big hit for the group back in 1964")
• Announcing the AGE of celebrities during birthday segments (they're actually featuring the music of the Rolling Stones today in recognition of Mick Jagger's 64th Birthday)

Comments?

In addition, the jocks talk down the songs and go into the stop sets immediately. Almost like the old days: "99X, Elton John's latest "Goodbye Yellowbrick Road", 3:04 with Dave Thompson!" into a spot. No stupid music beds, no going directly from a song into promo into stop set with no talking the whole time. Just good sounding "retro" radio.

 

[jamjimaria]

If you've been listening to CBS-FM since the flip, you'll note that they've been doing several things that go against current programming convention and have been deemed as no-no's in previous posts from several of our esteemed contributors. Included are:

• Front/back selling the YEAR a particular record was a hit (i.e.-"a big hit for the group back in 1964")
• Announcing the AGE of celebrities during birthday segments (they're actually featuring the music of the Rolling Stones today in recognition of Mick Jagger's 64th Birthday)

Comments?

In addition, the jocks talk down the songs and go into the stop sets immediately. Almost like the old days: "99X, Elton John's latest "Goodbye Yellowbrick Road", 3:04 with Dave Thompson!" into a spot. No stupid music beds, no going directly from a song into promo into stop set with no talking the whole time. Just good sounding "retro" radio.

The whole station sounds great and I am loving it!

 

[fang39]

In addition, the jocks talk down the songs and go into the stop sets immediately. Almost like the old days: "99X, Elton John's latest "Goodbye Yellowbrick Road", 3:04 with Dave Thompson!" into a spot. No stupid music beds, no going directly from a song into promo into stop set with no talking the whole time. Just good sounding "retro" radio.

Dave Thompson...wow, there's a name I haven't heard in ages! Takes me back to the days of Steve "Smokin'" Weed, Walt "Baby" Love, Terry Nelson and JoJo! Yes, 99X WAS MY RADIO STATION! LOL!

You also brought up another item that had been missing from the local FM airwaves--time checks! At least we know they're "live!"

 

[KevinFodor]

Fang:

Perhaps it's novel for New York, but giving the year that a song came out, as well as information about artists is and has been a staple of the oldies format.

Oldies morning shows, for example, often have done a "wayback machine" or "time tunnel" feature saluting artist birthdays and notable events in rock and roll history.

Time checks? Some programmers insisted for a number of years that the reason you didn't do time checks outside of morning drive was for the same reason that there are no clocks in a Las Vegas casino...you didn't want to inadvertantly remind people by giving them the time of something they might have to do that would take them away from the radio. I've never totally agreed with that idea, since the purpose of a radio station was to inform and entertain (part of the "serving the public interest, convenience and necessity" thing). But, nonetheless, that was the reason time checks were minimized, if not outright outlawed outside of AM drive on some radio stations.

 

[fang39]

Fang:

Perhaps it's novel for New York, but giving the year that a song came out, as well as information about artists is and has been a staple of the oldies format.

Oldies morning shows, for example, often have done a "wayback machine" or "time tunnel" feature saluting artist birthdays and notable events in rock and roll history.

Time checks? Some programmers insisted for a number of years that the reason you didn't do time checks outside of morning drive was for the same reason that there are no clocks in a Las Vegas casino...you didn't want to inadvertantly remind people by giving them the time of something they might have to do that would take them away from the radio. I've never totally agreed with that idea, since the purpose of a radio station was to inform and entertain (part of the "serving the public interest, convenience and necessity" thing). But, nonetheless, that was the reason time checks were minimized, if not outright outlawed outside of AM drive on some radio stations.

No Kevin, it's not a novel idea to give the year a record was a hit, especially in an "oldies" format. It was something that had been intentionally done away with by the station's programmers, pre-flip. In 2004, I had submitted an aircheck to them and was told as much when contacted by the PD. In critiqing my work, it was also suggested that announcing the age when doing a celebrity birthday list would make the listener feel old, so leave out the digits. It's just silly.

 

[junior]

I mentioned Mick's age today and every celebrity birthday I mention the age. I have no problem mentioning years a record came out and I don't currently do oldies. To me its about relating to the listeners. I am the target demo of the station I work for. I mention things and ask if the listeners remember and sit back and watch the lights on the phone bank all come to life at once. My PD hasn't said one word about it at all. In fact he really liked the whole break I crafted around Richard Roundtree from Shaft turning 65 and all the other celebs that shared the same day menbtioning every age.

 

[OldiesCat]

Heh, I'm just an average listener who doesn't know squat about the music business and sometimes it's fun too see what the insiders think is good and not good too do.

Personally, as an average listener, I don't see the big deal of advertising the year the song was recorded, or that a certain celebrity is a certain age. So long as the music is good, I'll listen, so who cares?

The song years and the artist birthdays have been way overdone, especially by Oldies. Most real radio listeners (NOT radio people) could care less what year the song was out (the song itself supplies the nostalgia) and reminding them their fave artist as a teenager is in his mid-60s isn't exactly a shot in the arm.

And, add to that Top 5 Countdowns, "on this day in 196-whatever" trivia facts and other Oldies trappings. I'm not sure anybody really ever cared about the birthday of the drummer from The Troggs or Friends Of Distinction anyway.

Play the hits and keep me entertained on what's going in my world today- THAT is what radio listeners are asking for these days.

 

[KevinFodor]

Fang:

Perhaps it's novel for New York, but giving the year that a song came out, as well as information about artists is and has been a staple of the oldies format.

Oldies morning shows, for example, often have done a "wayback machine" or "time tunnel" feature saluting artist birthdays and notable events in rock and roll history.

Time checks? Some programmers insisted for a number of years that the reason you didn't do time checks outside of morning drive was for the same reason that there are no clocks in a Las Vegas casino...you didn't want to inadvertantly remind people by giving them the time of something they might have to do that would take them away from the radio. I've never totally agreed with that idea, since the purpose of a radio station was to inform and entertain (part of the "serving the public interest, convenience and necessity" thing). But, nonetheless, that was the reason time checks were minimized, if not outright outlawed outside of AM drive on some radio stations.

No Kevin, it's not a novel idea to give the year a record was a hit, especially in an "oldies" format. It was something that had been intentionally done away with by the station's programmers, pre-flip. In 2004, I had submitted an aircheck to them and was told as much when contacted by the PD. In critiqing my work, it was also suggested that announcing the age when doing a celebrity birthday list would make the listener feel old, so leave out the digits. It's just silly.

Well Fang, I agree that's a prime example of "consultants and programmers gone wild".

 

[fang39]

I mentioned Mick's age today and every celebrity birthday I mention the age. I have no problem mentioning years a record came out and I don't currently do oldies. To me its about relating to the listeners. I am the target demo of the station I work for. I mention things and ask if the listeners remember and sit back and watch the lights on the phone bank all come to life at once. My PD hasn't said one word about it at all. In fact he really liked the whole break I crafted around Richard Roundtree from Shaft turning 65 and all the other celebs that shared the same day menbtioning every age.

This is a prime example of a jock doing his "homework" a.k.a. "Show Prep" and not just reading liner cards or sending it in, a rare trait, ideed! Bravo!

 

[OldiesCat]

Well Fang, I agree that's a prime example of "consultants and programmers gone wild".

For the 1,965th time- what do "consultants" have to do with any of this?

(Kevin, you normally display a better grasp of reality and common sense)

 

[chuckydoll]

Stuff that makes a station sound OLD

Show prep is one thing. Being a Dan Ingram/Dick Bartley wannabe is another.

DRC-FM in Hartford plays a lot of the same music but doesn't load it down with all that oldies baggage.

 

[Tom Wells]

Now let's add a processor setting called "cue burn" which the board op can call up on demand, and maybe some
random crackles or head-alignment phase distortion.

If they like that, we could next try the cued-okay-but-somehow-is-one groove-out extra length lead-in.
Maybe even artificial live-cueing sounds.
Dead air and fumbling?

 

[Element9]

Doing an occasion birthday or life-event isn't going to kill you, OVER-DOING birthdays and doing other inane crap will. What's worse, there are several "oldies DJ's" who in their own right, are damn good jocks, but unfortunately they rely on the "birthday, anniversary" shtick and it becomes a tiresome crutch rather than an "oh wow" item. It's 2007! Some Oldies jocks are known to say stuff like, "James Jamerson would have been 85 today." (The dude's been dead for 12 years!) Stop it! That's NOT good radio, especially if you're attempting to attract a 42 year old (female) listener.

Forward momentum is cool and energized, but if you're playing "Shout" by Tears For Fears followed by "Respect," you can't hurt to transition by doing a nicely woven backsell-frontsell as long as the momentum is maintained.

You may be playing songs from '68, '74 and '85, but it's essential to live in the "now." E.G.,If you're playing a 22 year old Whitney Houston song, you're better off talking about how good she looks these days or how good she sounded on last night's ABC special, rather than doing 22 year old material. OK, yeah, I'll even give you, "She "sang" the best-ever National Anthem before Superbowl XXV." But let's live in the present.

As to stopping down with a power backsell containing only artist-title, time and name... Lame! Do a solid liner that promotes your station, upcoming event or something special in the next music sweep and tie it in with what's going on TODAY. I'm not talking about a laundry list backsell of a "that was, and before that, and then I played... and Helen Reddy, Wings and Whitney Houston still to come..." type of tease, but something of value the piques the listeners' curiousity and interest and makes the jock SOUND like a live, plugged-in personality.

And by all means, "know the room." Jocks don't make a good impression on 25-49 year olds if they shuck and jive like a 1965 Ron Radio Boss Jock. On the other extreme, sounding like a Classic Stoner or AC drone is an equal turn-off. Be energized and entertaining.

The promo liners should be tailored by each jock to sound like personality bits rather than "join us for the 60's at 6" verbatim crap. Promote the radio station, jocks and features as often as possible. There's no better place than the first element before a commercial break to tell listeners the station's name and address and why they should want to listen to be part of something that's fun, entertaining and special.

"Please" and "thank you." It's simple and effective customer service.

-9-

 

[cawasinnj]

You also brought up another item that had been missing from the local FM airwaves--time checks! At least we know they're "live!"

Wanna bet?

Otto Mation can be timed down to the second. As long as the live segment preceeding it ends at an exact time, you can know exactly when each voicetracked session will air. Just this morning I heard a jock give a time check that was 2 minutes off. I immediately knew it was VTed. Now if all you want is the ILLUSION of live.....

Somewhere around here I have a very short aircheck from 1987 that demonstrates what I think the OP is talking about. It's coming out of Linda Ronstadt's "You're No Good" the VO goes "97 WYNY with Mike McCann and another 3 in a row coming up next!" then leads right into a Crazy Eddie New Year's spot. (Boy, touting 3 in a row today would seem pretty silly wouldn't it?)

 

[argytunes]

At this risk of asking a stupid question...

WHY do people connected to the radio business CONSTANTLY want to analyze an oldies format?

Do you think the average listener gives a rat's patootie what a radio station chooses to do when it comes to its program presentation...AS LONG AS IT'S ENTERTAINING AND NOT BORING?

We all know there are several talented air personalities who have excellent show prep and pacing....while there are on-air people who just like to hear themselves TALK! :

argytunes

 

[OldiesCat]

At this risk of asking a stupid question...

WHY do people connected to the radio business CONSTANTLY want to analyze an oldies format?

Do you think the average listener gives a rat's patootie what a radio station chooses to do when it comes to its program presentation...AS LONG AS IT'S ENTERTAINING AND NOT BORING?

Well, you've got a couple of things going here, one being that the CBS-FM flip (then flip back) was a highly-publicized event. Second, many on these boards are long-time radio veterans and, frankly, potentially see their careers in jeopardy with the Oldies format fading so quickly over the past two years.

On top of that, the fact the "Jack" stations have grown in number so quickly WITHOUT disc jockeys is another reason so many take it personally- it's the #1 reason people on these board hate the Variety Hits format in general: most are jockless, therefore the more succesful they are gives these fellows justification for hating it (because they see their potetial future viability threatened).

Of course, if you don't like Oldies, nobody's forcing you to read or participate in these threads. 8)

 

[KevinFodor]

Well Fang, I agree that's a prime example of "consultants and programmers gone wild".

For the 1,965th time- what do "consultants" have to do with any of this?

(Kevin, you normally display a better grasp of reality and common sense)

Oldies Cat: what I was referring to was not aimed at all consultants. But, having worked with many, I know that
there are some good consultants who do wonderful work...and a few real bozos who will, sometimes, suggest some goofy ideas to some PD's who knee jerk and do whatever is suggested.

Like the consultant who insisted to my PD of a CHR in the 80's that we really, really, really needed to add the new song by Linda Ronstandt and Nelson Riddle of "When You Wish Upon A Star" (which, if you recall, was a real stinker on the CHR chart). Made me wonder if the consultant was dating Linda at the time.

And, to be fair, some PD's overthink some programming situations, too. Sometimes it's a Programming VP or format co-ordinator. But, these instances do happen from time to time. And, at the end of the day, the PD
is supposed to be the person to decide whether an idea, or suggestion is relevant and right for his station, or completely "out there" and reject it. But, not all PD's are like that, either.