BREAKING ALL "THE RULES"...AND I'M LOVING IT!

[adma]

Please do not put words in my mouth regarding how I define "forward thinking"- I've have not brought up iPods and Satellite as forward thinking.

You've sure inept at reading between the lines, aren't you?

Well, in directing those who gripe about radio's ***mediocrity***(note emphasis) to iPod and satellite, you're effectively declaring and promoting the superiority of those mediums. So, are you now implying they (esp. iPods) represent backward thinking?!? Virtually anyone under 30 with half a brain would roll over in horselaughs at that notion. "I've have not brought up iPods and Satellite as forward thinking"--that's a quote for the ages. Only a greasy vulgar Scott Shannon-looking radio sleazebag who thinks he's king of da woild because he earns a solid six-figure salary could dream that one up. (Not that you *are* that way or anything--but that sure reflects the "under 30 with half a brain" impression of the biz.)

Based on your reply, it's plain you have absolutely no concept or vision for where radio needs to be and needs to go to survive and succeed.

Maybe, given the mentalities in charge and the "forward thinking" alternatives at hand, it no longer matters in 2007 where radio needs to be or whether it survives and succeeds. So, my concept and vision is more regarding where a discerning audience needs to be and needs to go, i.e. miles away. (In that regard, we're in paradoxical agreement--though perhaps you'd use a more dismissive term than "discerning".)

Once more re the "abusive Stepford husband" analogy: they neither deserve to survive, nor to succeed. (And they probably view the "feminism" that took their wives away as pointy-headed "backward thinking", too.)

 

[wgliradio]

But that was my point, wgli. Most regular everyday radio listeners are not interested in all of that; goodness, they've been hearing the same tripe over and over again for years on end. It IS wallpaper (not my opinion- this is what radio listeners say).

Then there should be no issue if it is included.

 

[OldiesCat]

Please do not put words in my mouth regarding how I define "forward thinking"- I've have not brought up iPods and Satellite as forward thinking.

You've sure inept at reading between the lines, aren't you?

Well, in directing those who gripe about radio's ***mediocrity***(note emphasis) to iPod and satellite, you're effectively declaring and promoting the superiority of those mediums. So, are you now implying they (esp. iPods) represent backward thinking?!? Virtually anyone under 30 with half a brain would roll over in horselaughs at that notion. "I've have not brought up iPods and Satellite as forward thinking"--that's a quote for the ages. Only a greasy vulgar Scott Shannon-looking radio sleazebag who thinks he's king of da woild because he earns a solid six-figure salary could dream that one up. (Not that you *are* that way or anything--but that sure reflects the "under 30 with half a brain" impression of the biz.)

Based on your reply, it's plain you have absolutely no concept or vision for where radio needs to be and needs to go to survive and succeed.

Maybe, given the mentalities in charge and the "forward thinking" alternatives at hand, it no longer matters in 2007 where radio needs to be or whether it survives and succeeds. So, my concept and vision is more regarding where a discerning audience needs to be and needs to go, i.e. miles away. (In that regard, we're in paradoxical agreement--though perhaps you'd use a more dismissive term than "discerning".)

Once more re the "abusive Stepford husband" analogy: they neither deserve to survive, nor to succeed. (And they probably view the "feminism" that took their wives away as pointy-headed "backward thinking", too.)

HUH????????



WOW. Talk about over-thinking something that's very simple.

???

 

[adma]

WOW. Talk about over-thinking something that's very simple.

Yeah, just like color-field abstraction. All that art-critic and intellectual blather over something anyone can do with a paint-roller

 

[KevinFodor]

But...

What have you really lost, if you can't make money with the people who go away?

And, Adma: I'd love to hear your opinions about the advertising industry and it's absolute refusal to cater ad dollars to the 55 plus crowd. Those are the ones that are "going away". Do you think advertisers should support the demo?

I understand the industry's alternative argument. But, I'd be interested in your thoughts. Because this is what's driving radio's decisions...

 

[OldiesCat]

But...

What have you really lost, if you can't make money with the people who go away?

It's a great point, Kevin. That being said, advertisers DO target boomers/55+ consumers- they're just not using radio to do it. And, if they did, there seems to be this assumption out there they'd flood Oldies stations with spot buys to do it, which is, of course, a false assumption. People 55+ listen to a variety of radio format and Oldies has never been the overwhelming choice of 55+ listeners- ever. Good shares, very competitive? Of course, but let's not forget 55+ also listens in big numbers to country, varitions of AC, jazz, urban AC, news/talk, NPR, etc. Oldies has been among the choice but almost never THE choice.

For anybody who doesn't believe me, pick any top 50 market anytime during the 90s (the Oldies format's heyday) and pick a really successful Oldies station's 25-54 or 35-64 shares- take that share and compare it to the COMBINED listening of other obvious 55+ formats I listed above. It's not even close. Even if you're able to pull a 55+ demo run out of Maximiser, it's still not even close. That's just the reality to keep things in perspective.

 

[adma]

But...

What have you really lost, if you can't make money with the people who go away?

Well, even I've said it before; a lot of radio's most avid listenership in the 1960s and 70s was more in spite of the advertising than because of it. So, the reach may be more limited (or "unenlightened", some might argue) today, but it's arguably more "efficient".

As for the ad industry; whatever my tiffs with him, Oldies Cat said it well about the over 55 demo. But there are other issues w/the approach of the ad industry (or at least particular sectors thereof) to commercial radio these days, issues which know no specific age demo, but relate more to the medium's perceived status as a least-denominator dumpster.

Here's a subtle point: if these ad-buyer types "guiding" the radio industry are these proverbial 20/30something zitfaces with no respect for over-55 geezers, well...ever consider that they're also getting well t/w the demo, chronologically and culturally, that takes it for granted that "radio sucks"? Just because they're serving you doesn't mean they're consuming your product with any pleasure; they'd rather listen to their downloads.

With that in mind, perhaps *they're* the ones using and abusing you. They're the pimps; the radio medium's the high-mileage whore, making lots of money but to what end, indeed...

 

[OldiesCat]

But...

What have you really lost, if you can't make money with the people who go away?

Well, even I've said it before; a lot of radio's most avid listenership in the 1960s and 70s was more in spite of the advertising than because of it. So, the reach may be more limited (or "unenlightened", some might argue) today, but it's arguably more "efficient".

As for the ad industry; whatever my tiffs with him, Oldies Cat said it well about the over 55 demo. But there are other issues w/the approach of the ad industry (or at least particular sectors thereof) to commercial radio these days, issues which know no specific age demo, but relate more to the medium's perceived status as a least-denominator dumpster.

Here's a subtle point: if these ad-buyer types "guiding" the radio industry are these proverbial 20/30something zitfaces with no respect for over-55 geezers, well...ever consider that they're also getting well t/w the demo, chronologically and culturally, that takes it for granted that "radio sucks"? Just because they're serving you doesn't mean they're consuming your product with any pleasure; they'd rather listen to their downloads.

With that in mind, perhaps *they're* the ones using and abusing you. They're the pimps; the radio medium's the high-mileage whore, making lots of money but to what end, indeed...

I would suggest you are way overthinking this. Radio people (in general) are famous for making things way more complicated than need be.

It's pretty simple: advertisers use different vehicles to target different audiences. And, something that hasn't changed is the FACT and reality that major advertisers are not using radio to target 55+ consumers with their ad campaigns. Period. It's not some dark conspiracy or self-defeating mindset for radio- it just is what it is. For anybody who's that adamant about changing that, I recommend you find a way to direct advertising for Coca-Cola, Proctor & Gamble, GM or another major corporation so you can make those decisions.

Yes, yes, yes- it IS just that simple.

 

[davideduardo]

Here's a subtle point: if these ad-buyer types "guiding" the radio industry are these proverbial 20/30something zitfaces with no respect for over-55 geezers, well...ever consider that they're also getting well t/w the demo, chronologically and culturally, that takes it for granted that "radio sucks"? Just because they're serving you doesn't mean they're consuming your product with any pleasure; they'd rather listen to their downloads.

Again: the 20-somethings at an agency are media buyers and planners. They do not select the target ages. They negotiate rates with the media based on a media plan developed with the client, based on the client's demographic requirements which, in turn, are determined by the client's own market research data.

 

[adma]

I would suggest you are way overthinking this. Radio people (in general) are famous for making things way more complicated than need be.

It's pretty simple: advertisers use different vehicles to target different audiences. And, something that hasn't changed is the FACT and reality that major advertisers are not using radio to target 55+ consumers with their ad campaigns. Period. It's not some dark conspiracy or self-defeating mindset for radio- it just is what it is. For anybody who's that adamant about changing that, I recommend you find a way to direct advertising for Coca-Cola, Proctor & Gamble, GM or another major corporation so you can make those decisions.

Yes, yes, yes- it IS just that simple.

Oldies Cat, your constant insistence on "you are way overthinking this" and "it's really that simple" reminds me of the kinds of uninspired killjoy pricks who insist that the *only* way to get from Point A to Point B is via Interstate, and anything else, local roads, back roads, old highways, Blue Highways, is for marginal weirdos and nutcases. I, personally, believe those kinds of killjoys deserve maximum torture and abuse

Though it does remind me that there are certain parallels between the commercial radio industry and the American Automobile Association--perhaps a Golden Age of Motorized America symbiosis? (Car radio blasting out and all.) Like, AAA membership and benefits no longer carry the sagely, central authority they might have back in the 60s or 70s; once upon a time, all those Triptiks and Tourbooks were rites of passage for the serious motor traveller, but we're now in an age of GPS technology and a multiplicity of alternate resources that render what the AAA provides rather beige and old hat--nor does it help that AAA rating standards have had the quirks tightened out of it so that virtually the only accomodation listed anymore is of the middlebrow Interstate-chain variety, the only restaurants of the "Bob Evans" variety, etc. Except as a routine resource for free towing and discounts, the AAA is, at least to the hardcore road-tripper, a very pale shadow of what it once was, best for straggling snowbirding seniors and their like.

And, sort of like commercial radio, the AAA's survival gambit in an era of alternate resources has been to dig in its heels and concentrate on the Motoring Silent Majority. There's even a parallel between talk radio's prevalent conservativism and the AAA's cozying up to "better roads" organizations (i.e. the sorts of groups who think anti-expressway movements are some kind of Communist plot).

Funny thing is, whenever I visit a AAA or associated office, the customers all seem time-warped in from the 1970s, like some classic "Duane Hanson" vision of the Vulgar American Traveller. The only place where I'd expect to see a more intense concentration of mummified 70s polyester vulgarity is at a radio industry convention

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

[...contents elided...]
And, sort of like commercial radio, the AAA's survival gambit in an era of alternate resources has been to dig in its heels and concentrate on the Motoring Silent Majority. There's even a parallel between talk radio's prevalent conservativism and the AAA's cozying up to "better roads" organizations (i.e. the sorts of groups who think anti-expressway movements are some kind of Communist plot).

Funny thing is, whenever I visit a AAA or associated office, the customers all seem time-warped in from the 1970s, like some classic "Duane Hanson" vision of the Vulgar American Traveller. The only place where I'd expect to see a more intense concentration of mummified 70s polyester vulgarity is at a radio industry convention

I have nothing to contribute insofar as the content of this thread is concerned. However, strictly from a *stylistic* standpoint, the thoughts as expressed by ``adma'' are Mencken-like and reminiscent of W.J. Cash's phrasing.

We now return to the Bozart here in Zenith...