According to published reports...San Francisco got a new station today (May 18) at 3 p.m. when Clear Channel detonated smooth jazz on KKSF. What they got in return was classic rocker "103.7 the Band," which kicked off with Bay Area native Carlos Santana's "Everybody's Everything" and will roll 10,000 songs commercial-free. The first hour featured artists like the Beatles, the Doobie Brothers, Elton John, the Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac, the Eagles, Pink Floyd, Creedence Clearwater Revival and Journey. The Band is streaming online at www.1037theband.com. The former smooth jazz format lives on online at www.kksf.com. "We thank all the loyal KKSF listeners for their passion and support over the years," said president/market manager Dave Pugh. "We want to keep the music alive on the online platform and continue to provide a venue for smooth jazz artists to distribute their music." How far behind is WNUA? Who else? All I can think of is the scene from Titanic where the stern of the ship is out of the water and ready for the last plunge. Hang on to the rail and be ready to swim away before the undertow gets you!
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Buh-Bye KKSF
- Thread starter Bill Harmonic
- Start date
M
majaman78
Guest
Bill Harmonic said:
KKSF was a spectacular station when owned by Brown Broadcasting. Clear Channel/BA destroyed it.
Sunday Morning Oasis will be missed.
The rest of their inferior B.A. programming won't be.
I want to say, "Unbelievable," but the fact is this became a foregone conclusion once CD 101.9 flipped in February 2008. I recall e-mailing the then PD of WSMJ in Baltimore when I learned of the news, and was concerned about the future of the format in Baltimore (WSMJ flipped about 3 months later). I said, "If it can happen to the nation's largest market with a longtime and passionate following, it could happen to anyone." WNUA can't be far behind (one poster already mentioned recently that WNUA might clean house soon). Three of the Big 4, the true pioneers of the genre, are gone. The true test of a champion will be whether KTWV (although one could argue they have been "gone" for awhile) can survive this apocalypse. If there is one place where this format can survive, it's So Cal. But for how long given what has happened over the last 18 months?? "Unbelievable." 
Great! That's just what S.F. needs, another classic rock station playing the same 300 or so hit songs.
So now KKSF can compete against CC's own classic rock KUFX while at the same time competing against classic rockers, KVRV-FM and KSAN. And, of course, being Clear Channel, neither of their stations are being programmed locally but somewhere in Cincinnati (or wherever).
What I don't get is that, as a smooth jazz station, KKSF did moderately well in ratings--much better than any of the classic rock stations are doing.
Well, Redwood Empire Stereocasters should be pleased. Their low-rated KJZY will no doubt get a ratings boost as they pick up some former KKSF listeners.
C5
So now KKSF can compete against CC's own classic rock KUFX while at the same time competing against classic rockers, KVRV-FM and KSAN. And, of course, being Clear Channel, neither of their stations are being programmed locally but somewhere in Cincinnati (or wherever).
What I don't get is that, as a smooth jazz station, KKSF did moderately well in ratings--much better than any of the classic rock stations are doing.
Well, Redwood Empire Stereocasters should be pleased. Their low-rated KJZY will no doubt get a ratings boost as they pick up some former KKSF listeners.
C5
M
majaman78
Guest
Carmine5 said:
KJZY >> quite possibly the worst looking "smooth jazz" playlist I have come across yet! lolololololol
Im Yours Jason Mraz 6:03 PM
Soulful Strut (Top Down Vers Grover Washington, Jr. 6:00 PM
My Fathers Eyes Eric Clapton 5:55 PM
Dreamin Vanessa Williams 5:48 PM
Mais Que Nada Sergio Mendes and Brasil 66 5:46 PM
Esperanza Bluezeum 5:42 PM
Blue Bayou Linda Ronstadt 5:38 PM
Strangers In The Night Frank Sinatra 5:36 PM
Aint Nothin Like The Real Richard Elliot 5:31 PM
The End Of The Innocence Don Henley 5:27 PM
One You Love (The) Glenn Frey 5:19 PM
I Can See Clearly Now Jimmy Cliff 5:16 PM
What Does It Take Peter White 5:12 PM
Kissing A Fool Michael Buble 5:09 PM
A Change Is Gonna Come Seal 5:05 PM
Here's the thing. How can they/we blame the music when these stations quit playing it a long time ago. They still called themselves Smooth Jazz but the list above is not that much of an abberation. Look at the playlist of any existing SJ station and you'll see more Barry White than Peter White.
AnotherCat said:
I like your argument. To some extent, the end of consultant-programmed 'smooth jazz' could be a latent blessing for the lovers of actual jazz, whether its a contemporary or a classic sound they like. I'm sure those folks might like the options they find online or through subscription services (XM/Sirius, Slacker, smartphone apps, etc.) better anyway. Because lets face it, jazz on commercial radio had to be dumbed down to reach the audience it did--it had to get 'smooth' so advertisers would get not-THAT-old adults.
T
Tom_Webster
Guest
I think this is pretty sad; and I posted a brief note about this here: http://budurl.com/hkaa
I agree. While I truly feel for those dedicated folks at KKSF who loved this music and did everything they could to make it work, let's blow it up and start from scratch. The loss of the KKSFs of the world (as far as this genre goes) is more symbolic than it is substantive. Those of us who have the ability to control the programming we deliver (whether we do it as a hobby like myself, or do it to help put food on the table) have an obligation to be as creative as we can, be attentive to listener feedback, and most importantly, not lose sight of the elements of what made this format great to begin with: Contemporary instrumental music with great vibe and vocals with similar elements (more Michael Tomlinson and Pete Bardens, and less Michael Bolton and Barry White).
I know it's easy for us to say things like, "The world needs another Classic Rock station like it needs a hole in the head." But there is a reason why Classic Rock has always been a nice fallback for radio. The music has survived on mainstream radio for 4+ decades, and there is seemingly no end in sight. My nephew is in his senior year in high school, and he is a huge fan of 70s rock bands, as are many of his friends. I recently asked him why. He said, "Uncle Chris, the new music on radio these days just stinks." And he's right. The reason for these kids embracing the music we grew up with is simple: The quality of the music is FAR better than the alternatives on radio today. For years this analogy has applied to contemporary jazz on terrestrial radio, with one VERY notable exception. The diehard fans of this genre had NOWHERE else to go (there were no true NAC stations), so they went away in huge numbers, while the relative few that stayed around tolerated an inferior product.
It's time to go back to the drawing board. But the nice thing is, the artwork has already been done for us. The only thing we have to do is come up with a creative way to display it.
Chris
I know it's easy for us to say things like, "The world needs another Classic Rock station like it needs a hole in the head." But there is a reason why Classic Rock has always been a nice fallback for radio. The music has survived on mainstream radio for 4+ decades, and there is seemingly no end in sight. My nephew is in his senior year in high school, and he is a huge fan of 70s rock bands, as are many of his friends. I recently asked him why. He said, "Uncle Chris, the new music on radio these days just stinks." And he's right. The reason for these kids embracing the music we grew up with is simple: The quality of the music is FAR better than the alternatives on radio today. For years this analogy has applied to contemporary jazz on terrestrial radio, with one VERY notable exception. The diehard fans of this genre had NOWHERE else to go (there were no true NAC stations), so they went away in huge numbers, while the relative few that stayed around tolerated an inferior product.
It's time to go back to the drawing board. But the nice thing is, the artwork has already been done for us. The only thing we have to do is come up with a creative way to display it.
Chris
And yet KIFM owns the San Diego market, #1 12+ and #1 in their demo. Of course, they do not use BA's horse-crap format, either, they program their own station. Is San Diego THAT different from the rest of the country, or is KIFM's management that much smarter?
We need more KIFMs.
I live in Memphis and stream KIFM, by the way.
We need more KIFMs.
I live in Memphis and stream KIFM, by the way.
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majaman78
Guest
sjs1959 said:
You just answerd your own question on why KIFM works.
When Smooth Jazz Jacksonville was programmed by Jones, I tuned in. When they switched to BA I stopped.
BA singlehandedly ruined the entire format.
majaman78 said:
I stream KIFM quite a bit, too. Every time I try to stream one of those BA stations I leave within 10 minutes. Yesterday, when I heard of KKSF's demise, I read on one of the boards here that KKSF's smooth jazz format is still on HD2 and streaming. I figured CC must be using the old KKSF website, so I pulled it up and, of course, the link was still there to listen. I clicked on it to listen to the stream. Some obscure rock song was playing I'd never heard of before, so I thought..."no, they must streaming the new format on the old website for some reason since that definitely didn't sound anything remotely like smooth jazz". The next song that started playing was without doubt smooth jazz, so I was actually listening to the BA programming rather than the new "Band 103-7" all along. Just goes to show you how far smooth jazz has veered off the course over there at BA. They just don't have a clue. :
This schizophrenic "hodge-podge" of smooth jazz and other musical genres that BA is offering is never gonna work. btw, AC Tones...the ".wav" is what I listen to most of the time. My computer runs it most of the day. It's good to know that there are some out there who still care about the "smooth jazz" format and know how to program it correctly.
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majaman78 said:
That would partly explain KJZY's 0.3 share. To paraphrase Jack "The Joker" Nicholson: 'That station needs an enema!', beginning with firing the PD and finding a true curator of smooth jazz--someone who knows the genre and how to program it.
As it is, KKSF did a respectable 2.6 share with SJ whereas the highest rated classic rock station for S.F., KSAN, does a 2.5.
As for programming smooth jazz on a KKSF HD side channel, they might as well send it to Siberia. Hardly anybody owns an HD Radio receiver and the few that do, report terrible reception for HD2-3 channels.
C5
Carmine5-
Couldn't disagree with you more on KJZY's playlist. It's actually quite good. Sophisticated, varied and it has a nice flow!
This is actually a case of the right radio station in the wrong city!
Santa Rosa is a "classic rock" town. Look at the demos there!
This station should be in SF! Guarantee, if The Wolf or Alice pick this format up, they clean up!
Couldn't disagree with you more on KJZY's playlist. It's actually quite good. Sophisticated, varied and it has a nice flow!
This is actually a case of the right radio station in the wrong city!
Santa Rosa is a "classic rock" town. Look at the demos there!
This station should be in SF! Guarantee, if The Wolf or Alice pick this format up, they clean up!
I agree with airpab. See my other thread on KJZY. That sample playlist in this thread is a poor representation. Check out a good 24 hours on yes.com. Even the best station is going to have a streak of poor songs. That was a weak streak there. Check it out for 24 hours. Good station.
KIFM is nowhere near as good as it used to be. in the last year they have gotten much more safe and have added more pop and R&B. lots and lots of john mayer, alicia keys, beyonce, stevie wonder, and the instrumentals are much less adventurous. most overrated station in smooth jazz (not that there are many left now LOL).
I really think there's a lot in a name....The "Smooth Jazz" moniker seems to really box in many of these stations...At least in the mind of the listener or more importantly, potential listener?
KIFM and a few select other are doing just fine.
But I can't help but wonder if more success would be (or would have been) found by simply eliminating the "Jazz" part in station names??
KIFM and a few select other are doing just fine.
But I can't help but wonder if more success would be (or would have been) found by simply eliminating the "Jazz" part in station names??
That question (whether to take "jazz" out of "smooth jazz") has been debated for years and no one is sure one way or the other if that would help. My own opinion is that it would, in fact I wouldn't even call it "smooth jazz" at all, but there are bigger problems than that. If this music is to survive on a commerical level, we have to get back the listeners that made it great to begin with. In the hast to make this format more popular, the heart, soul and passion was removed for non offensive music that pleased very few and they could care less as long as it was there day after day. I've said it before and will again that everyone comes to these stations for the tempo and texture, fast or slow, this vocal or that vocal, no matter what that is. Tempo and texture is the foundation we build our stations or shows on. Now, you have two types of listeners who use this format. There are those who just come for the tempo and texture and nothing else. They like what they hear and don't have a vested interest one way or another because it feels better than other stations. It's background, hip beautiful music and they don't know Boney James from Richard Elliot. The other listeners (like most of us who write here) not only dig the tempo and texture, but we want variety, we know the difference in artists and how they play, we'll accept some AC hits but those are really few and far between. We want different because different is good but different also has to be commerical. We are not here to educate but to entertain and if you forget that, or think otherwise, you will not win. We are the people who support the station at events and shows. We are the people who buy from the advertisers. We are the people who write the station down in ARB. We are the main reason the format did so well. We were the foundation of success. But that changed. The format was led to a simple foundation and what those doing the leading did not know, because they did not care, was that those who did give a rat's behind left and those who just come for the tempo and texture can't support a station like this. The plan was reversed where stations that did do well had a solid core of people like us for major support and a base of the other folks which usually put you over the top. The take it or leave it plan did not work. Also remember that these stations were not big ratings winners but made a boat load at the cash register. That also changed when the sales dynamic became different inside a station cluster. The dark side would go after the big and easy money maker and the jazz station, which you had to work at, got hung out to dry. Finally no support in promotions and marketing finally nailed the lid on the coffin. This music is still viable and commerical but we have to reinvent ourselves and get back to the future. It starts with us and we need to take the responsibility to make this an opportunity once again. Everything changes and everything ends. How are we going to deal with this? Enough of my soapbox. Try the little green things, tip the wait staff and I'll be here all week!
Actually not..I got an Arbitron solicit last fall and former radio employees can not fill out diaries either. Probably best because the sports talk station would have had this weird bump in 45-54 females that would only last for one book
Did KKSF have any live people left. I thought they had downsized everyone over the last year and Maria Lopez was just doing BA network.
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