Buh-Bye KKSF

[Bill Harmonic]

Cat... Don't take everything verbatim. Read into it a tad. I was not talking about people in the business because if you're in this business you already know you can't fill out a diary. I'm talking about the many people, real listeners, who support of this kind of station and supply the foundation to make them go. I'm talking about the people who we all talk to on a regular basis who tell you what an important part of their lives your station or show has become. I'm talking about people who are just like us! To prove my point, Tom Webster of Edison Media Research just wrote an excellent piece on the negative feedback on the KKSF change. It's worth going into the comments section which is now almost at 4000. These people to a fault did not like it and they are PO'd to the hilt and are telling SF CC to go take a flying leap. But they are also screaming about the image of something that was great but died sometime ago in the hands of those who just didn't care. My question is can we rebuild the former image of a KKSF into a viable and working radio station for today? That's the challenge before us.

http://www.infinitedial.com/2009/05/the_politics_of_listener_destr.php

or here are the comments...as Tom says "read them fast" because they will probably disappear quickly

http://smoothjazzkksf.disqus.com/kksf_1037_smooth_jazz/

 

[AC Tones]

Spot on, Bill. The Tom Webster piece is fantastic, and is a must read for avid fans of this genre. Also check out his June 2008 article (the link of which is embedded within his KKSF piece). He speaks of the need to lose the "Smooth Jazz" monicker, and true NAC still being a viable product on radio. I could not agree with him more.

Chris

 

[majaman78]

Cat... Don't take everything verbatim. Read into it a tad. I was not talking about people in the business because if you're in this business you already know you can't fill out a diary. I'm talking about the many people, real listeners, who support of this kind of station and supply the foundation to make them go. I'm talking about the people who we all talk to on a regular basis who tell you what an important part of their lives your station or show has become. I'm talking about people who are just like us! To prove my point, Tom Webster of Edison Media Research just wrote an excellent piece on the negative feedback on the KKSF change. It's worth going into the comments section which is now almost at 4000. These people to a fault did not like it and they are PO'd to the hilt and are telling SF CC to go take a flying leap. But they are also screaming about the image of something that was great but died sometime ago in the hands of those who just didn't care. My question is can we rebuild the former image of a KKSF into a viable and working radio station for today? That's the challenge before us.

http://www.infinitedial.com/2009/05/the_politics_of_listener_destr.php

or here are the comments...as Tom says "read them fast" because they will probably disappear quickly

http://smoothjazzkksf.disqus.com/kksf_1037_smooth_jazz/

Bill or any of you other experts out there;

Can you explain this to me?

WQCD 101 in NY always did a pretty consistent 3-ish share for years. They flipped to AAA WRXP and have been mired in the low 1-ish ratings ever since.

Can you explain to me how these mental midgets in radio see that as a plus? I assume that's 2 million LESS listeners more or less? Yikes!

 

[Bill Harmonic]

One...I'm not an expert but a guy who has a ton of experience and is learning more everyday. I'm here to offer my experience to anyone in anyway possible if you want it. It's just an opinion and observation from one set of ears. I'm here to make the pie bigger for all of us. I keep talking about change and how the smooth jazz format did not keep up with the change for various reasons. Two...I think you hit it on the head in two words...Mental Midgets! Everything changes and the jazz format has fallen out of favor. Triple A (and I love Triple A) is the next thing the owners think is going to work for them in the new PPM world. Contemporary instrumental music is still viable. All we have to do is find out which form will work. So roll up your sleeves and start to fail because the faster you fail, the faster you will get the answer. The show I do has been a work in progress for over four years now and I'm on five stations. But I'm not afraid to stretch the limits and try something that might be different. For example, I found a "chilled" version of Riders On the Storm by the Doors that will appear in the 5/31 show. May work...may not work but it sounded pretty cool. Cost me $26 bucks to get the CD from England. Was it worth it? Hope so and I've got enough experience that my instinct says it will because it is set up correctly. Got to take a chance. Got to push yourself. Got to get in the game. Got to take a chance. You can sit on the sidelines and yell or you can get on the field and play ball with the big boys. I've always been an idiot who gets in way over his head but I keep pushing forward and I keep making progress slow and sure. I'm ever grateful for my experience in the format but I also see that we now have to Star Trek and go places where the format has never gone. (This feels like the John Belushi speech in Animal House where he's trying to get the boys up and at em...sorry!) Don't worry about where we've been. Use it to build a new foundation and future. Be the programmer who comes up the the right course. That's the change we all need to capture.

 

[Nock]

What's interesting to read in the over 3500 comments is how many actually believed Dave Koz was there in San Francisco.

Nock

 

[Bill Harmonic]

Radio is not about what's real but how it is perceived.

 

[sjs1959]

Sadly, how much of this has to do with the fact that listeneres to SJ/NAC formats are perceived to be 55+ and thus undesirable for advertisers?

A story I read on the flip of WNUA said that CC execs couldn't sell the format to ad agencies, even though the numbers were middle of the pack.
Is this doomed to be on nothing but HD and internet streams? I hope not, no offense to AC, who has a great internet station....

 

[AC Tones]

Is this doomed to be on nothing but HD and internet streams? I hope not, no offense to AC, who has a great internet station....

None taken, brother. I admit, by no means is an Internet stream ideal. There are good ones, and there are bad ones. I think that is why so many are reticent to completely embrace the product, due to the inconsistent quality of the streams. That's why I have gone to great lengths to try to make mine as professional sounding as I possibly can with the limited time and resources I have, because that is what my listeners deserve. Trust me. If I had the financial resources and the opportunity, it would be much more. That said, I do think Internet streams have tremendous potential once mobile data plans become more affordable and royalties fees are kept in check for small broadcasters. Once you can start reaching people in their cars (tens of thousands of them), particularly in large metropolitan areas, I think things start getting interesting. One reason why XM/Sirius struggled is because radio was meant to be FREE. Who in their right mind wants to pay for something that has been free their whole lives?

If we can ever get this economy to turn around, start to carve out a niche, cultivate a new younger generation of listeners (like the microbeeps of the world ), and find and convince those of the NAC generation from the 80s and 90s to come back, I do believe there is hope. This is great music, and like others who have been in the business for many years have said, it can work. It's not just the handful of us who post on this board who care about or appreciate this genre. We just have to keep programming sharp, creative, and discover clever, cost-effective ways to find listeners. Because history has proven that if listeners enjoy the product (particularly this genre), they will stay for MANY YEARS (going on 25 for me ;D).

Chris

 

[AC Tones]

Sorry dude! "microbopeeps" I meant to say. KKSF and WNUA falling in the same week has me rattled. ???

Chris

 

[thenewageriseth]

Sorry dude! "microbopeeps" I meant to say. KKSF and WNUA falling in the same week has me rattled. ???

Chris

Ah. ("microbopeeps of the world") It's all good, AC Tones. What a week this has been. And it's all thanks to my late father that got me started on WNUA. Before WNUA, in the 90s, it was WJJD (My folks didn't want me listening to negative music) and once WJJD went off the air, I began to look for other alternatives.
Had dabbled with WLIT The LITE, FM 100.3 and finally WNUA. And the during the years I listened to these stations (100.3 evolved a few times) and is/was a loyal listener. Talk about GOLDEN YEARS.
AC Tones, I looked at your smooth jazz stream site. Looks interesting!

 

[Carmine5]

Man, I can't believe the high volume of backlash from devoted listeners.

But Jerry Del Colliano called it right when he referred to the top brass at Clear Channel as "incompetent." Of course, when you have accountants, MBAs, investment bankers and even people from the hotel industry running a radio empire I guess you can expect this kind of nonsense--especially when they're all running scared trying to service a massive multibillion dollar debt.

C5

 

[majaman78]

Man, I can't believe the high volume of backlash from devoted listeners.

But Jerry Del Colliano called it right when he referred to the top brass at Clear Channel as "incompetent." Of course, when you have accountants, MBAs, investment bankers and even people from the hotel industry running a radio empire I guess you can expect this kind of nonsense--especially when they're all running scared trying to service a massive multibillion dollar debt.

C5

Didn't CC just go private? I know they had a sh*tload of debt when they were public.

Whith so much duplication of formats within each city, I'm surprised these horribly run companies like Emmis, CC, Entercom just simulcast exactly the same programming over different frequencies.

Even rock/classic rock (which was such a superb format back in the AOR days) is dreadful. They just rotate the same 200-300 song playlists. IMO EVERY format was ruined with the exception of Talk, which is "cheap"

I still think there's a conflict of interest with CC and XM/Sirius. Those clowns own a big piece of sat radio and are purposely putting out a dreadful product on terrestrial in an effort to get more subs onto sat.

What they didn't plan on was the internet, so I also feel they are behind RIAA in order to stop it.

Just another conspiracy theory of mine! :

 

[Carmine5]

Man, I can't believe the high volume of backlash from devoted listeners.

But Jerry Del Colliano called it right when he referred to the top brass at Clear Channel as "incompetent." Of course, when you have accountants, MBAs, investment bankers and even people from the hotel industry running a radio empire I guess you can expect this kind of nonsense--especially when they're all running scared trying to service a massive multibillion dollar debt.

C5

Didn't CC just go private? I know they had a sh*tload of debt when they were public.

Clear Channel did, indeed, go private in 2006 when Bain Capital Partners and Thomas H. Lee Partners purchased the media behemoth for over 26 billion. So, yes, they do have a pant load of debt. Consider this: CC owes 1.6 billion in interest alone!! Like the old Senator once said: "A billion, a billion there and pretty soon you're talking real money."

And with that kind of debt load (coupled with declining revenue), you won't see much adventurous or even good radio coming from them.

C5

 

[davideduardo]

[I still think there's a conflict of interest with CC and XM/Sirius. Those clowns own a big piece of sat radio and are purposely putting out a dreadful product on terrestrial in an effort to get more subs onto sat.

The last report I saw before CCU went private showed that the interest in XM was diluted down to less than 1% due to all the equity financing to cover losses. At this point, that is a tiny and probably non-productive invenstment.

 

[crainbebo]

Right now, KWJZ 98.9 Seattle is playing Stevie Wonder's Really Love Me.

I've heard them play Jason Mraz before.

So, is Smooth Jazz altogether saying buh-bye? Or will the radio stations switch to "Modern and Classic Smooth Jazz, without Stevie, Earth Wind and Fire, Jason Mraz, or Alicia Keys"?

-crainbebo

 

[AnotherCat]

If you go to Slacker they have a smooth jazz w. vocals and a smooth jazz w/o vocals set up. On each of them you can actually modify the stream by designating artists that you don't want it to play, and by whether you want deep trax, singles, etc..I just discovered it so haven't really gotten far into what they are dishing out.

The smooth jazz radio format is actually moving more towards EWF and Stevie Wonder..not less.

I play Bella Luna by Jason Mraz..that's a very cool song that mixes in well and since it was never a single it isn't burnt out.

 

[recto101]

well KKSF and other Smooth Jazz Stations need to re-format themselves as World Class Jazz like Combine Smooth Jazz with Fusion and Classic jazz